Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: Chi chi on March 21, 2016, 11:32:33 AM
-
I know some say it does nothing and others say it does? I just wondered if anyone on here has tried it and what their experience with it was, good or bad!
I'm just trying to explore all avenues and will give almost anything a go ::)
-
As I understand it this cream is not strong enough to cause the lining to shed and shouldn't be used as protection for your womb. I think that there are other threads on here discussing this local cream .
-
No no and no again! As dazned says - no go. Forget it - sorry!
Hurdity x
-
I take it that's a no then lol 😩
-
I think it depends on what you are using it for. Also there are different creams available over the internet and quite a few of them have no active ingredients in them. A cream prescribed by a qualified Dr which has assay confirmation of its active ingredient is a different thing.
Personally when I was in the worst of peri menopause with constant bleeding and flooding and a large ovarian cyst I had the option of hysterectomy or mirena coil. I saw a private Dr who specialises in natural progesterone cream and he agreed to treat me ( he does not take everyone on) and he said that my cyst and constant bleeding could be sorted with the cream because I was so oestrogen dominent ( test results). I really really thought he was talking bunkum but gave it a go.
Within 4 weeks the bleeding had stopped and my next ultrasound scan to moniter the cyst at 12 weeks after treatment started showed no cyst at all which totally suprised the consultant as it had been complex and a good size.
I didn't become post meno for another 2 years but I never again had the months of bleeding and flooding or anymore cysts.
So for me with my symptoms and via a qualified Dr and an assay certificated product it worked. I still use the cream.
-
I looked at taking Serenity but ended up crying off. I wonder if it might work in conjunction with Utrogestan, perhaps meaning you can take a lower dose?
There should be an alternative to Utrogestan in the way of a cream or a lower dose vaginal pessary. It really is time something better came along.
-
You can get micronised progesterone (and Estradiol and Testosterone) in the form of a pumped cream at the London Specialist Pharmacy but it is expensive (£90 for 160 doses) and you need to see a BHRT doc to get the prescription - even more expensive! It's unregulated but the dose is more personal to you and can be mixed with correct ratios of the other hormones into one pump to be more effective. It's a shame they can't do a prog gel on the NHS like the oestrogen one as, although they say it's not as effective a carrier for prog, you really do feel it work - unlike the more spurious OTC creams.
-
Wow I wasn't expecting that ???
I just wonder if it's as potent as the tablets? But if used daily would be enough but not too much to cause massive problems? If that makes sense? ???
-
dangermouse, that sounds very interesting. This is the type of thing I am talking about when I say that something new needs to come along. Many women are faced with either having to have a hysterectomy of giving up on HRT altogether because of the inflexibility of the progesterone component and this sounds like a very good option. It's a pity it's so expensive but it is very much along the right lines.
I will look into this, thanks very much for the information.
-
I never knew that you could get synthetic progesterone cream, I thought only natural progesterone cream was available which is what I was posting about.
You live and learn!
-
That's what dangermouse is talking about - it is the same stuff - it's all synthetic or all natural depending on how you look at it. All of it comes from the same raw materials and is made in a lab ie synthethised - but both use progesterone - the compound that is bio-identical to that in our bodies. Utrogestan is the same - it's "natural" ie bio-identical progesterone, but it is synthesised.
The problem with all of these private prescriptions from compounding pharmacies is that they contain different amounts of progesterone and there is no regulation/standardisation so the doses cannot be related to the amount known to keep the lining thin - which is what the other doses are based on.
This isn't new Mary G - but not very widely used in UK because it is private and expensive - and as I said - non-standardised. More widely used in places like Aus where utrogestan is not available - but very expensive!
It still has to be systemically absorbed through the skin is sufficient doses to reach the uterus....
Hurdity x
-
So how do they determine how much of each hormone to put in?
-
Just a little heads up from me too. If you happen to have mood issues with your peri/meno watch the progesterone. I went to a hormone specialist ( in Canada they call them anti-aging specialists which I hate). He advised me that in early peri progesterone drops more quickly than estrogen ( decreased ovulation and crappier eggs = less progesterone) and higher spikes of estrogen= lots of bleeding/anxiety etc.
Prescribed topical micronized progesterone. First few days was OK other than EXTREMELY painful breasts. He reduced dosage to every other day to help with the breast pain, and advised only stopping the cream when actual period started. Mood started to get a little wonky after about 5 days, then started period and stopped progesterone. LOST MY FREAKING MIND for 24-48 hours after stopping the progesterone. Seriously thought I was going to need to be hospitalized for psychological reasons.
I had a LOT of symptoms like this a couple of years ago when I got hit with the perimenopausal 2X4. I now realize that the symptoms then ( which were the exact same as coming off the progesterone this time) were likely a result of my dropping progesterone levels.
So can topical progesterone help- almost certainly with bleeding issues, but use much caution if your mood has been iffy. I will never mess with it again.
So in perimenopause many of the mood symptoms etc. may partially be explained by progesterone withrdrawal, and not just low estrogen.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22789402
-
Isn't that a reason to use it?
I'm confused :-\
-
This is interesting as I have bought some Serenity cream but have held off using it so far as am nervous about it.
-
This is interesting as I have bought some Serenity cream but have held off using it so far as am nervous about it.
Can I ask where you bought it from? I've seen it from Wellness, is this the correct place to get it?
-
Hi I bought it on-line from the Wellsprings site
-
Chi Chi - do not buy this much hyped stuff! It's not supposed to be promoted on here anyway. It will not do what you want it to do. It is very weak and will not protect your uterus at all!!! This is a distraction. I appreciate your search for a progesterone that you can tolerate but your best bet is still utrogestan as being the most "natural" - in the same way that the cream is - but just a whole lot stronger and available on NHS. Any cream or product that is strong enough to protect your womb is likely to cause the same side effects as utrogestan - if you are susceptible.
Annidav - I don't know what you've bought it for but it's harmless.
Hurdity x
-
I'm with Hurdity. Intravaginal utrogestan did not affect my mood to the same extent as the topical compounded stuff ( still micronized progesterone).
And yes...it sounds like there is some basis for using progesterone ( Not necessarily transdermal) to regulate bleeding in early perimenopause particularly...just be aware that many women are sensitive to the mood effects of progesterone regardless of route.
To minimize side effects and maximize uterine protective benefits/reduce bleeding....i'd go with intravaginal utrogestan myself. but that's just me.
-
Thanks everyone, I haven't bought any, just clutching at straws I think :-\
-
Chi Chi - do not buy this much hyped stuff! It's not supposed to be promoted on here anyway.
I might have missed something but it does not look much like anything is being promoted, just discussed. Surely that's allowed?? :o ???
Otherwise there would not be much point in any of us signing on!!
-
When I saw Dr Annie she openly sneered at progesterone cream and was scathing about the 'specialists' who peddle it.
-
I feel like I've gone back to square one since taking the 7 days of utrogestan! Am awake now with night sweat which I dont actually usually get? Been waking every night again. feeling sluggish in the day. Headaches and yesterday felt a little down which I dont get. Can cope with taking it but the effect afterward is troubling. Bit like a bad period I use to have in my 30s. Oh and binge eating! Small dosing everyday would seem the right way to go as in the natural cycle I presume the only way for that would be a topical cream and im not sure why this isn't looked into more? Professor Studd only uses utrogestan I presume because there's nothing else available? Is there not enough money in making those doses smaller?
I think I tried emerita progest in the early years of peri I don't think it didn't work it was just that it did but it was too much when you werent sure what was going on so wasnt confident in using it. I think what ever progesterone you take if you randomly having it for a few days its gonna mess you up as your cycle want like that?
Just some thoughts at 4 in the morning!
-
Kate50 I totally understand what your saying, this is exactly what happens to me! This is what I meant by taking enough to just keep things balanced.
You read so much about how complex hormones are and how it's so important that they're all balanced but what if like us your intolerant to it? What then? :-\
I also think that taking a tiny amount a day may be better than one big hit, it's much more of a shock to the system! But I suppose a tiny amount a day wouldn't be enough for it to shed the lining?
I'm nearly 2 years into HRT and I'm still none the wiser about it all :-\
I actually slept better last night than I have done in the last few days, but this morning looks like I'm starting to bleed again :( I thought it had stopped finally after 4 weeks!
Can you get any rest today? Hope you're not feeling too lousy x
-
Yeah chi chi I don't work. Just got up actually. I think you could have smaller amounts that's what they do with the combined hrt surely? Isnt It Just cos utrogestan really licensed for other uses?
I don't feel like im so much intolerant to it just the amount and way its given.
Surely if Studd had found it available in smaller doses wouldn't he be advocating that? ?
-
Just to clarify you can't compare the doses of synthetic progestogens (in combined HRT) with progesterone itself! Firstly they are synthetic and many are much more powerful than progesterone in keeping the lining thin, which is why they are used (ie have greater affinity for the progesterone receptors I understand). Also progesterone as a molecule is very unstable in the body so we need to take large doses in order for enough to get through the system and into the womb. There have been studies which quantify this ie doses needed to prevent endometrial hyperplasia (which can lead to cancer) which is why the recommended doses are as they are. I do agree that they are overkill in some cases eg the one size fits all dose, even to oppose small doses of oestrogen - so a 50 mg dose would be good. However there isn't really another way unless annual scans are provided on NHS which is unlikely in the current climate! The ovary pumps out small amounts of progesterone but on a continuous basis and the body is designed to function like this. Adding progesterone vaginally or orally is a crude approximation of replicating this, and needs to be sufficient to do the job that the ovary does perfectly well by itself. Synthetic progestogens last much longer in the body so can be taken in smaller doses.
Hurdity x
-
Thanks for that info Hurdity. Women still being treated crudely in the 21st century eh? But on the subject of scans I have had no problem getting one. Got one on the 11th at my docs from a mobile unit. My doc didn't think there was a problem in having one. I asked as not had any progesterone since starting hrt last September . Studd didn't seem bothered but I wanted to get checked plus only had 3 light days of bleeding after taking utrogestan.