Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: Lizab on March 17, 2016, 09:47:19 PM
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Is there a definitive high or low estrogen symptom list? I have several lists bookmarked, and some of them contradict each other while others even contradict themselves. I want to assume low progesterone would equal high estrogen and vice versa on these lists, but they don't work out that way.
I've felt a little off, not bad just off, all day and a moment ago bawled like a baby over something sad but not THAT sad.
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Does it? Surely oestrogen and progesterone happen at different times of the month whilst menstruating …….. to aid fertility? We need Hurdity again ::)
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Well, that's true, CKLD, but I was thinking in terms of the progesterone cancelling out the estrogen so low P and high E symptoms would be equal, no? Maybe not. This menopause sure isn't working out as logically as I would like!
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Oh Lisab I could not agree more! I have also noticed that!
It is VERY confusing! I am so unsure atm what is high, low or normal. And I know my GP will also not know...And any minor change can overturn the applecart. I can understand why some women might consider a hysterectomy in the end. I am nearing that point...
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Both hormones are pretty low in the follicular phase but oestrogen surges a few days before ovulation and then both hormones are active in the luteal phase with progesterone being the most predominant. Just before your period oestrogen dominates progesterone for about a day and then they both plummet.
Oestrogen lowers progesterone and vice versa so it's all about their interplay. Too much towards oestrogen causes nausea, anxiety and inflammation and too much towards progesterone causes depression, tiredness and lethargy.
Because our hormones fluctuate throughout the day and interact with adrenaline, cortisol, testosterone and the thyroid it's very hard to correct imbalances, hence why it's all really trial and error. If your adrenals are in a good state prior to menopausal surges and fluctuations, I've read you suffer less which makes sense.
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Lizab - some of the symptoms do overlap. However the endocrine control of oestrogen is though LH and FSH. Progesterone is produced by the corpus luteum after ovulation and is not controlled by oestrogen. The article here explains what happens in a normal menstural cycle and at peri-menopause:
http://www.menopausematters.co.uk/article-perils-of-the-perimenopause.php
It's important not to get too hung up over specific symptoms - especially as there are transitory symptoms caused by increase and decrease of one or the other hormone!
If your hot flushes and sweats are decreased/eliminated and your mood is positive most of the time - then oestrogen is likely to be sufficient. Sudden increase in oestrogen can cause headaches and nausea but these usually settle once the body acclimatises. Low progesterone will not cause any symptoms apart from bleeding due to womb lining build up in the absence of ovulation. As dangermouse says ( :welcomemm: by the way - perhaps you would like to introduce yourself in new members section and tell us something about yourself and your menopause?) high progesterone can cause those symptoms - but some women seem able to tolerate their own prog just fine. Decreasing progesterone also causes pmt symptoms, as in the menstrual cycle - headaches, tension, irritability, rage - but this is temporary and once the withdrawal is over and progesterone remains low - these symptoms disappear.
When you are peri-menopausal it is difficult to attribute a particular symptoms to a particular hormone. it is also the dramatic fluctuations which can give rise to unpleasant symptoms and there is not a lot you can do about that expect for perhaps starting the BCP - which will suppress your own cycle.
Hurdity x
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:thankyou:
I learn something every day ::) - hormones aren't simply hormones are they >:( ???
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Thank you, Hurdity! That makes sense. I'm still trying to decide if I should request an increase in estrogen. You and everyone else have already told me that .375 is very low and I should be on .5 at least at my age. But I feel so close to right, I can see the light finally, bit I'm still not quite there. I'm terrified that going up to .5 would push me over to a new set of horrible symptoms and perhaps I should learn to live with "close enough". I'm mostly only lacking in energy at this point, probably due to poor sleep. I am not sleeping well. My hot flashes are mostly occurring only toward the end of my progesterone when I'm having a bleed. Anyhow, this is why I'm trying to pinpoint. I just don't want to make a mistake.
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Lizab remind me how long have you been on your current regime ? They say you need to try it for a minimum of 3 months before adjusting dose.
Also I think that there's a lot to be said for learning to live with "close enough" when a few things have been tried, I just wish I could do it !! :)
Pollie
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Pollie, it's been 3 months. That's my problem- I'm not sure if I should risk upsetting things more or settle in close enough which really isn't that great.
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If you can give it another 3-4 months? none of us is the same in how much HRT we need/don't - or is it possible to up the dose occasionally to see how your body reacts?
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I think I've made up my mind to ask for more. I don't want to wait longer. I've been at this for 6 months already, as first we took a wrong turn by trying to adjust my thyroid meds to see if that cut it, then I had to get that on track again before getting into the hrt. I mean, for longer than 6 months I've been hardly leaving the house and never going out alone, because I was going downhill for awhile before I determined I had to see a doctor. If an inctease doesn't help, then we'll know. Currently I'm fluctuating between complete apathy/laziness and feeling pretty good energy-wise but bitchy lIke PMS.
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CLKD you wouldn't give an HRT type an additional 3-4 months on top of the 3 months trial - except in the case of bleeding on a conti HRT. 3 months is the usual time to trial a product to see if side effects settle or if the dose is right.
Lizab - good luck and keep us posted as to your progress!
Hurdity x
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Lisab, agreed, you definitely need more oestrogen - I wouldn't even notice that small amount you are on.
The beauty of the gel is that you can adjust the dose easily, why not give it a try?
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Mary G, I believe the patches are more suited to my lifestyle at the moment. With young children, I can't count on having a few minutes for the gel to dry before a little one is climbing on me. Also, I'm not even sure what gels are available in the US aside from creams from compounding pharmacies.
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Also there is the transfer issue (from gel) if you have skin to skin contact with your children!
Hurdity x
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That was my concern, Hurdity. I assumed that once it's dry, it it isn't as much of a concern, but regardless, not a good fit for my lifestyle right now.
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The instructions state that skin to skin contact should not take place until after an hour has passed - so if you wanted to use it in the morning with young children (or pets) - you would have to wait for it to dry and then cover the area with clothing, and you would be fine. In the evening you would have to make sure it wasn't anywhere where you would have contact with a partner. The way it works is that it is absorbed into the skin and then gradually diffuses form there into the blood stream - but it could equally diffuse onto someone else's skin too, until it has been properly absorbed - so I have read.
Hurdity x
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I called to request an up dosage and to my surprise, he granted it without further question. Tonight is patch change night anyway so I'm trying with a new .50 patch. I start another course of progesterone this weekend so if the increased estrogen causes side effects then hopefully the progesterone will offset it and I'll adapt by the time I finish that.
Today hasn't been the best day, and last night was weird as well, but not so bad as to make me lose my will to even try like I was pre-hrt. But it's not even 9pm here, the children are not yet asleep, and I can hardly keep my eyes open. Here's hoping this little estrogen bump will be the magic potion for me!