Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => Personal Experiences => Topic started by: Sarai on March 07, 2016, 11:25:26 AM
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I have written at length on here about my rotten experience with 40000iu of vitamin D3. I think I may finally have solved my mystery.
After my suffering I learnt that D3 alone depletes magnesium in the brain (this from a pharmacist) also it lowers blood sugar (this from the Mayo clinic). Now the manufacturers rejected all my assertions of reaction to their product.
Anyway I took none at all until trying this year to be brave I bought Cod Liver Oil with a small amount in, and within an hour or so got my old low blood sugar feelings, so left it off. That was few weeks ago, and no low sugars since.
Now for many years I took cod liver oil and oddly as I recall I suffered daily with low blood sugar, but as this was my norm I just rode the storm each day. I had recently remembered I no longer got low blood sugars and of course no longer used cod liver oil.
Well today I braved a menopause supplement from Sainsburys with some vitamin D in and low and behold here I am wobbly and in a low blood sugar again, feeling so like I did last year but less extreme.
I can see too how it brought back tinnitus as the anxiety was immense at that time.
Im glad i figured it out but at a loss about vitamin D and me given our sun is pretty rubbish here.
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That's interesting. Do you check your blood sugar so you have an actual reading as to how low it is? I only ask as a few years ago I was convinced that my "wobblies" were caused by low blood sugar but on using the blood glucose strips (I knew how to use these as my mum was diabetic) my level was perfect. I now believe mine were/are caused by anxiety.
Taz x
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You must be extremely sensitive to Vitamin D and this is worrying as this is such a vital vitamin. Do you get this low mood, fatigue and feeling of low blood sugars when you have been in the sun? Maybe your reaction is due to something going on in your digestive system? When you say you feel like you get low blood sugar after taking these things, what are the symptoms you get? When taking Cod liver capsules this can give indigestion/heart burn if they haven't been taken with a main meal and this can make one feel wobbly and unwell. If I take multi vitamins without eating a good meal first I also feel unwell - so I'm wondering if it is the Vitamin D or something else in the pills or the way you are taking them that is upsetting your digestive system and making you feel as though you have low blood sugar. I can understand your reaction to the high doses but to have such instant and negative responses at such low levels must be very unusual. Do you get a reaction from breakfast cereals that are usually fortified with Vitamin D?
My brother-in-law is a leading consultant gastroenterologist and is concerned about the Vitamin D deficiency in the population generally - he insists that all the family take Vitamin D3 through winter months. Low mood, fatigue etc are typical symptoms of Vit D deficiency. There is a move to add Vit D to more foods to prevent this deficiency.
I do wonder if you tried some low dose Vit D3 pills and took them after a main meal whether you would get the same reaction?
Spring is round the corner so hopefully you can get out for some brisk walks that will boost your Vit D from the sun - you only need 20 mins per day. DG x
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No I don't test them I go by how I feel. I started as a teenager having them, ate loads and was just 7 stone, it has always been my normal.
But looking back I was on cod liver oil maybe a decade and only stopped as somebody recommended omega 3. I hadn't really noticed low blood sugars going but last year after I refused anymore D3 the shakiness at least went, though it took several weeks and I've had no low sugars since, until the cod liver oil day last month and now today.
This may be the answer for me at least, though just gives me a dilemma of getting vitamin D gently in my diet or through out pathetic sun as I live in Yorkshire.
I may try this pill again in a week, or try at night.
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As a type 2 diabetic and frequenter of diabetic forums, you might find that your reading is in acceptable levels but feels low to you. A few of us think that this is because we all have a range we feel comfortable in and even though technically you aren't at low levels, your body just doesn't function that well at that level. This might just be a hunch, although if you running high a lot of the time, any downward shift will make you wobbly. Might be Worth getting a meter and some strips I think so you can see what is happening.
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Dancinggirl I always got my lowest times running up to my lunch. I take supplements with breakfast which is light cereal, I have a meter and know i am in range. I have been tested many times for diabetes and do not have it, I passed a glucose tolerance test with flying colours my body just gobbled it down very quickly.
The vitamin D manufacturers maintained I could be reacting to the synthetic nature of the product as it is made from lanolin.
I do not get a reaction in the sun, I feel so energised by sunshine its glorious.
I may try taking the product after my main meal and see how that goes. I did try a calcichew one evening and that was OK.
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coldethyl I can understand that I have autoimmune disease and very sensitive to many things drugs especially and small sugar drops make me feel unwell though I do know I am not in danger range. But my bad ones left me white, shaking, sweating and angry. I have been tested for diabetes many many times.
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Sarai - don't take anything last thing at night - especially cod liver oil capsules. I take Krill oil capsules after my porridge each morning (krill capsules are expensive) but I find I get less heart burn from these. There are things that are high in vitamin D e.g. kelp and you can get some milks, bread etc that are fortified with Vitamin D. It does sound to me as though you have a very fast and efficient digestive system and maybe testing your blood sugar levels is a good idea. I'd chat with your doctor about your problems with the feelings of low blood sugars - maybe you need one of those diets that are high in GI foods? I have porridge every morning to avoid that low blood sugar feeling mid morning. Dg x
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Worth asking about reactive hypoglycaemia at your surgery. You sound very much like a friend on diabetic forum who has various long term health issues and suffers from terrible mood swings, joint pains etc because her blood sugar fluctuates too much. She has reactive hypoglycaemia. Her best tip is to really low carb, even the supposedly low GI foods are still high in carbs- green leafy veg, meat, cheese and so on.
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Just to agree with coldethyl - I have got reactive hypoglycaemia on and off as far back as I can remember (self-diagnosed - two of my sons get it too)- and it is not consistent ie it does not happen at a specific blood sugar level ( mine have always been normal) - it just only happens sometimes. (I've had tests too - eg once when I had hypo gl symptoms my level was 4.4 but could barely function - pouring with sweat and trembling so much I could hardly take the blood! This is within normal range).
It started getting worse during the second half of my cycle before I was peri-menopausal - that stage when pms gets worse but periods are still regular. I used to carry glucose tablets round with me to stop getting the shakes and sweats. I learnt that it would happen for me most likely mid/late morning so I changed what I ate for breakfast and learnt to control it by always having muesli/oats for breakfast (big bowl) as well as fruit, and a banana mid morning.
Lately since going on a diet -recommended by my sonto lose some weight - I have virtually cut out sugars and carbs - to no more than once a day sometimes none ie cereal, oats, bread pasta, rice and spuds - obvs no biccies/cakes etc - and eat more protein and nuts etc and it's amazing the difference. I don't fuss about foods that contain carbs ie I eat those eg lentils etc - but just cut out the ones mentioned and it really does stabilise the blood sugar. Btw I do eat choc now and again or even a pud when I got out to eat but occasional sugar /carbs are fine as is wine at the w/e :))
I regularly take cod lover oil - one of the few supplements I think is worth taking - for a little extra vit D at this time of year (I get plenty in the summer and hopefully my stores last most of the winter) - and it doesn't affect me.
Seriously Sarai - do try this - it will really help regulate your insulin - not sure where you are in menopause but hormonal changes also affect blood sugar as well so the more you can control with diet the better :)
Hurdity x
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My gynaecologist recommended having an egg for breakfast. I was having porridge for breakfast, but by 11.00am each morning, I had that horrid low blood sugar feeling, faintness, lethargy etc. Having an egg completely eliminates it, but if I give it a miss, back comes those symptoms. Gets a bit boring though.
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My gynaecologist recommended having an egg for breakfast. I was having porridge for breakfast, but by 11.00am each morning, I had that horrid low blood sugar feeling, faintness, lethargy etc. Having an egg completely eliminates it, but if I give it a miss, back comes those symptoms. Gets a bit boring though.
I think your gynaecologist is ahead of the curve. Porridge is actually one of the better breakfast choices if you are eating carbs so fact it still makes you feel rubbish is telling. How about making a frittata and having portion of that. You can make mini ones in muffin tins. I line them with thin slice of ham and add chopped peppers or mushrooms etc. also cottage cheese and bit of grated cheese. They can be reheated in microwave. Other good breakfasts are some oily fish or avocado and cheese.
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I too was told to try to eat protein at breakfast to avoid the blood sugar episodes but really struggle as I am not the least bit able to face food in the morning till 10ish but I would fall over with faintness if I didn't eat so I force porridge down me most days but on others was having banana smoothie with almond milk but that was too sugary apparently and I dipped an hour later. Funnily enough though, I manage a good breakfast on holiday in a hotel! Maybe I'm just lazy.... ;D
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we are all so different aren't we? Porridge with prunes and berries is the only breakfast that does not have me looking for elevenses but keeps me going all morning. Anything else and I am after a banana mid morning.
I ended up in hospital with hypercalcemia when I was on calcichew but I seem to be fine on the vitamin D spray so far :)
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Big breakfast is the way to go!
Like Justjules and Ju Ju porridge or muesli on its own or even with fruit was not enough to last me all morning - had to have a banana mid morning and could get low blood sugar ( not always) depending on how energetic I was.
Some of us seem to need more in the morning - that is defo my needing to eat time. I now have half a grapefruit, a bowl of low fat Greek yogurt mixed with unsweetened stewed apple, followed by one or two boiled eggs (no toast). Might have muesli once or twice a week (together with the egg) and once or twice a week I have a good low fat fry up ( as well as the fruit and yogurt) - of bacon (no fat on it) mushrooms, tomatoes ( cooked in oven with olive oil or low fat spray) + fried egg. I've lost 10 pounds since September and now weigh 8 st.11/12 which is pretty much where I want to be and stay (I'm short) and feel really well on this diet. I do go to 3 exercise classes a week and my (part-time) job is quite energetic when I'm out doing it :)
Hurdity x
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Did you know that mushrooms can take on vitamin D, just leave them out in the sunshine for half hour before eating :)
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Wow lots of great advice.
Yes i do believe I have reactive hypoglycaemia, never shows on tests I even saw an endocrinologist once but he could not 'make it happen' so dismissed me. I did see him after lunch though.
It has been a lifelong thing and my kids are the same too at varying times.
I'm guessing I had settled down quite a lot maybe with change in hormones plus I had taken to carrying nuts and raisins to ward of hunger.
My vitamin D episode came a month after surgery and an infection so my body was below par to be fair. But I believe given that they know vitamin D regulates blood sugar (the Mayo clinic says those with low blood sugars should closely monitored while on it) it simply knocked mine right down.
I was given 40000iu in one go and within an hour was shaking and did keep saying it feels like low blood sugar but nothing I did would help me, it became an anxiety shaking, tingling cycle and as each week progressed I recovered a little only to be given it again. I researched constantly but it was in fact somebody on here who led me to the Mayo clinic page, by that time I had had 4 lots. At that point I refused more and got another blood test and my levels had shot to 97 my dr was very shocked.It was a false high though as another month later they were 63.
Yesterday I did not have the pill with it in and was my normal, today I have had soya milk (it has vitamin D in) on my cereal and am pretty wobbly and tingly, so its either the cumulative effect of double Vitamin D in the both items.
I think being reactive normally the extra tips me over, certainly in how I feel. So my lunch has fish, potatoes and greens, no added vitamin D, i will see if I feel better after that.
It seems to me I have a problem if its the way the stuff regulates sugar in my brain certainly, it may not be the make of it but the stuff itself. Oddly i do love the sun but it does make me very sleepy if I have too much so maybe. Oh golly I dont know.
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I am finding the sub lingual spray of 25mcgs is not causing me any problems so far. My endocrinologist was all for it and did not say it needed other things to make it work properly. He takes it himself as he is dark skinned and therefore deficient in vitamin D as we don't get enough sunlight in our country.
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I also think that if anyone feels they may be at risk from low Vit D through not having enough sun exposure throughout the summer months, to last the winter - then take cod liver oil (the pure stuff in a bottle if they still make it - not the concentrated capsules with added vitamins) regularly and then no-one would need to have any of these high doses and all the problems that entails. I would agree there is no recommendation that I know of that you need to take anything else with it - the rest can defo be obtained from diet as far as I know. There are ( mainly Amercian I think) sites that will try to tell you you need all the other things too but not sure any of this is evidenced based - correct me if I'm wrong sparky!
Hurdity :) x
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I think that Vit k is needed with VIt d to help direct calcium away from soft tissues including the heart to the bone. Vitamin d helps to direct calcium from gut into the bloodstream and you don't want it deposited in the arteries. It's a very well documented interplay.
https://riordanclinic.org/2013/10/vitamins-d3-and-k2-the-dynamic-duo/
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Yes I know the need for vitamin K but here in the UK they simply do not care, we lag behind on so many things. Vitamin d causing calcium toxicity is documented.
Also with regards to magnesium, yes it was the Americans first but now here they have learnt and are adding it to many makes. I was also told by a pharmacist that vitamin D3 depletes magnesium in the brain, she found out to her cost when taking a much lower dose than me.
And of course conversely there are people who can easily tolerate the large doses, my audiologist is Indian and was taking 40000iu like me and he felt wonderful on it, as always it depends on a persons body how they will react.
My body is very sensitive, i honestly go light headed on paracetamol.
For my last operation I asked for a 'little' anaesthetic, they of course refused. But I warned I would struggle, and I did. They could not bring me around for hours, then they could not stop my heart racing and I had to be kept in as I was shaking so much and could not stand. Everybody else having the same small op, woke up, had tea and toast and went home the same day.
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Can large amounts of Vitamin D cause heart palpitations, PVC's, PAC's? I was given an Rx for 50,000 units to take weekly for 6 weeks and I am afraid to because I have read it can cause heart irregularities. My Vitamin D level was pretty low, but I don't want to cause any issues with my heart. Thanks, Ann
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I take a multi vitamin every day which contains 5ug of vit D and also containk vit K. I have been found to be low in vit D and advised to supplement so I got a vit D spray which contains 25ug (1000iu) giving me a total of 30ug a day. I found some advice on the NHS website that advises to take no more than 25ug a day (and yet far in excess of that is given).
Anyway if I use the spray every day I find I get jittery and my pulse increases so I tend to use it 2 or 3 times a week until my levels are rechecked in july.