Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: Candy Floss on February 26, 2016, 05:37:30 PM
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I know each woman is different when it comes to the menopause, but some women really suffer at this time. I think, on the recommendation of a GP, a woman should be able to take 6 months paid leave from her work. I know it's hard to judge when is the best time to take those six months, but just a thought - imagine if men had to work while they're flooding for three or four weeks non-stop. It can be a bad time for a woman emotionally, physically and mentally and I think for some they need a break from working as well as coping with the change. I don't mean someone being signed off as sick for a few months - I mean that it should be law - it should be recognised.
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It's not an illness though. One gets paid sick leave and one cannot be sacked due to sick leave. Contracts can be re-negotiated and help should be given in each Company.
Larger Companies have to employ a Full time Nurse - I believe any Company with more than 250 employees. But imagine the impact on smaller Companies if all the ladies had 6 months paid leave at once :o. It could well put some out of business :-\
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But not all of the ladies would be menopausal at the same time. It's not an illness, but it is medical. In reality it would just lead to employers discriminating against middle-aged women in general. I know there is sick leave - but that's often much less than paid leave. Some women sail through the menopause but there are those who really suffer. I just think women's rights in the work place are still in the dark ages. I think the menopause should be taken more seriously and be recognised as debilitating which for some women it is.
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It's hard enough getting a job without people avoiding employing you because they are worried you are approaching 'that age' and will need your 6 months off! Yes, I know discrimination shouldn't happen, but it does. And how are you going to prove that is the reason you are not getting a job?
My background is in horticulture, and it's an open secret that many large estates and gardens are reluctant to employ women of child-bearing age or give them further training in case they leave to have children. Can just imagine what it would be like if it were a legal requirement to grant menopausal women 6 months paid leave!
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I agree that people do not realise how debilitating The Change can be, but that includes women too. Surely that's what a Union is for ……… but many Companies do not access to Unions.
My Contracted sick leave payment was full pay for 6 months, after that half for 3 months then a reassessment of the Contract. It does depend on the size of the Company, the place of the Company within the World Market and to a certain extent, how clued up on ladies problems HR are. I had to take time off College due to heavy, clotty, painful periods …….. and occasionally had to be off work due to various associated symptoms.
At a time when ladies feel vulnerable having to take time off work and be worried about keeping their job adds to the already troublesome problems!
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Whatever it would lead to, or how unrealistic it may be, the truth is that some women feel like death warmed up during the menopause and they still have to work through it - and in 2016 that's got to be wrong. The menopause is something that will happen to all women, yet there has never been any employment procedure in place for women who genuinely need time out. It's a subject that has never been considered in the area of employment and it really should be. Women can qualify for ESA and DLA due to severe PMT - why not something for the menopause?
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I just think the menopause is something we're all programmed to accept and get on with. It's not taken seriously enough. We all grin and bear it and keep it to ourselves. Doctors dish out HRT and antidepressants when what some of us really need is a break, a rest, and the knowledge that our job will be open to us after we've had time away.
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We don't live in an ideal World though :-\ and I never got time off for PMT ……. I worked in the NHS then ::)
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You are all right and being realistic it wouldn't work. It's not an ideal world, and as James Brown said "this is a man's world" lol!
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I'm in a traditional marriage or should I say old fashioned I wouldn't want to go to work and im glad I don't have to. I know there will be ladies on here that will have to and I don't know how you do it. I choose health over wealth always have done! That's probably why I have no money! Lol
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If the menopause was treated properly from the outset, then perhaps fewer women would suffer such debilitating symptoms. The fact is, the NHS are not treating women properly or offering them the right type of HRT at the right age. It is vital that women start taking oestrogen as soon as their own levels start to fall.
Family Planning Clinics and Menopause Clinics need to merge in order to provide a joined up service and as soon as women approach the menopause, they should be offered the BCP or oestrogen (preferably the gel) to combat their symptoms and avoid overall health deterioration and longer term health problems caused by oestrogen deficiency like hip replacements for example. They should also offer uterine scans for women at all these clinics.
Obviously this won't work for all women but it would work for the vast majority. The current approach is shortsighted and will cost the NHS more in the long run.
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As for men getting on with life, this conversation has passed many times in my house:
Him: You do it. I can't because I have a backache/headache/flu.
Me: I can't because I'm bleeding from my vagina. Are you bleeding from your penis?
Him: Allright. You win. I'll do it.
;D ;D ;D
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:thankyou: Mary G
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I don't feel ill in solid chunks of time either. I can feel like I'm dying one day and the next day I feel fine. Sometimes it changes within one day. I think more flexible working patterns would be better than 6 months paid leave - I had a friend who worked from home and as long as she did so many hours a week, she could please herself when she did them.
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Flexible working would help in many situations: child care, illness, taking parents to Hospital appts. etc.; wonder how they deal with it in mainland Europe?
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Meno happened for me in my mid 30's, now nearly 60. I gave up work to look after my eldest GD who is now 7. At the same time I took my first break from HRT. Big mistake!!! Looking after GD was exhausting enough, combined with flushes, sweats, lack of sleep etc. I must have been mad! Got through it though as daughter needed my help.
Not sure flexible hours would work, certainly wouldn't have worked for me if I'd still been working. I felt rubbish 24/7. Even a short walk to supermarket had me totally exhausted. Not something I'd like to do again.
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Menopause is not an illness - it just isn't.
Re Flexible working helping.
It didn't help me to keep working when my MS really decided to kick in.
Thankfully I'd medically retired by the time meno hit.
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You can be sacked for sickness. Im not sure avoiding work all together is healthy i agree there needs to be more understanding by employers but every woman in meno taking 6 months off meaning employers have to pay more to recruit and train someone else is not the answer. I had severe endo and at times was crippled until i had my hyst and had to drag myself into work. It wasnt easy but I was determined not to let any condition get the better of me.
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I know the meno isn't an illness, but it's a case of, I'm not ill but I really do feel ill. I realise that six months paid leave is unworkable - but - how about a law that safeguards women's jobs if they need time out due to the menopause? There must be so many women who take time off and end up getting the sack - because technically they're not suffering from an illness.
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Interesting thread. I've been lucky all my life with period pain and have friends who have to stay in bed. I've just posted about extreme pain that woke me this morning and I can honestly say if today had have been Monday I could not have driven and gone into work I was in that much pain with stomach cramps. I would have had to ring in sick. Luckily my department is majority women and quite a few are menopause and peri so it's openly discussed regarding support with feelings etc. But yes, this mornings pain would have prevented me from doing anything.
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Sacked for sickness? how so.
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Teresa - any triggers (we have several threads about IBS here ;-) )
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I wish IBS was recognised too in this country as it is in the states. Its very difficult to work with that too as often I'm in and out of the loo eight or ten times a day >:(
The combination of IBS, menopause and extreme exhaustion led me to claim my teaching pension early and retire completely after several years of just doing supply. I went through a period of time when I had sudden emergencies several times a day and that does not go well within a classroom.
' Sorry, children, play amongst yourselves while teacher runs to the toilet!' doesn't quite cut it!
Very stressful, even when my digestive system was calm. It was the fear of having an accident. I didn't get any support from my then GP, other than to check there was nothing sinister going on. It seemed that if they can't see anything, it didn't exist. I have experienced more support in the last few years, if not any answers.
I do wonder how I would have coped financially without my DH. Because I have been unable to work full time for many years, my teaching pension is small, though welcome, and of course, my state pension age has been pushed back twice, now at 66.
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Add to that Teresa that I can't add-up ……. so no tills for me either ::)
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I had to leave my job at the end of November due to severe perimenopausal symptoms. I was constantly crying in tge toy cupboard at the nursery I worked in and the staff were not sympathetic. The manager was disgusting and hauled me into the office on many an occasion telling me I didnt have an illness and if I couldnt cope I shouldnt be there. I eventually had several periods on the sick with depression and anxiety and on return to wirk I was met with the same attitude . my working life became unberable and my confidence was shot I began to question my own ability to do a job I had done for many years basically because I was not getting any support from management. eventually the manager went on maternity leave and the acting manager who came was fantastic she was totally supportive of both my depression and my anxiety and I began to feel better about myself. however the closer the time got to the original manager coming back off maternity leave I began to suffer depression and anxiety off tge scale . it was at this point that I realised I couldnt continue to work there as things would revert once manager was back. I basically felt I had no choice but to resign which I couldnt afford to do but my health had to come first. im still looking for a new job but getting out of that obe was a positive move health wise.
im nit sure about paid leave for menopause but there should be awareness amongst managers of how some wonen like myself can be deeply affected .
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:bighug: bet you miss your work ……….
How have you been since you left (you've probably said on here ::) :-\ ) …...
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I do miss it I miss the children and I miss the gew nice staff who worked there.
Im a lot better now im not there as I dont have the pressure of wondering how I can get through a day however its brought its own issues such as money worries etc but hopefully I will find a job soon .
my depression seems ok at the minute but my anxiety is very bad I couldnt leave the house twice last week with it then I worry more as I think how xan I find a job in this state and I never know when the depression will strike I literally live day to day as I never inow how I will be .
I tried to claim ESA but was refused it as having worked part time I haven't paid enough NI contributions I must be daft but I assumed I had been paying them .I bet there are lots of people in this situation. si now I must fibd a job but will I be able to do it as im still perimenopausal and my moods all over
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One has to pay into the system if your employer doesn't? I can't quite remember but know that I couldn't afford to do so when I was self employed so opted out. Thank goodness for DH's Pension!
Could you go into school as a support teacher to hear children reading etc.? or tutor older children before exams.?
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That's awful how your manager was. I know I'm really lucky as although I have real dread and anxiety now about going to work and not believing in myself etc etc and every week tell my manager I'm leaving because I can't do it anymore, it's a supportive team.
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From gov.uk website
You can be dismissed if you have a persistent or long-term illness that makes it impossible for you to do your job.
Before taking any action, your employer should:
look for ways to support you - eg considering whether the job itself is making you sick and needs changing
give you reasonable time to recover from your illness
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Unfortunately, there are many managers out there who haven't a clue how to manage. They appear to think that you have to bully people to get the best out of them, yet when people feel appreciated and valued, they do tend to do the best they can and more.
I worked for one head teacher who was a bully. She was responsible for my pregnancy! ;D It was find a new teaching post and delay having a baby for a couple of years or have a baby straight away. We opted for the latter.
When it comes to difficult menopauses, periods and pregnancies, it is easy for those who sailed through them to assume that it's a matter of attitude. They don't realise they have been fortunate.
When I was young I had very painful period pains. As painful as labour pains. My mum was very dismissive and called me a drama queen, until she witnessed the onset. My parents rushed me to the nearest hospital. Unfortunately it was a chest hospital...........but that's another story! ::) I'm sure we all have stories to tell.
My DH commented that boys should be educated about women's health issues at school. I think girls too. I was so unprepared. When I had those painful periods, I was so scared and lonely. Once I was supported, it was no where near as bad. The same goes for menopausal issues. I have support, therefore I cope. It's not sympathy that's needed, but more understanding, accommodation and non judgement.
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Do you think in the main, that Europeans are judgemental ………… ?
However, it depends on the Contract of Employment: which should be handed over within 13 working weeks: as to how sick leave/pay is dealt with. I'm still waiting for mine from the NHS which I left over 20 years ago ::). There should be a consultation period but that depends upon the HR Dept., the 1 I had in Industry were as good as bldy useless - too worried about their own jobs than do their HR job properly. It was a title only :-\.
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hi ckld
im not sure what happened with my ni payments some month my company paid it and others noy I foolishly assumed they knew whst they were doing but on hindsight perhaps not .
had a bad day mood low weepy I start my first month of taking progesterone day 1::14 tomorrow I normally take itvdays 15::26 but specialist said to try it this way so I hope it picks my mood up though I havve no idea why it would.
im on a supply company books but been too anxious to work I feel like I go round in circles with perimenopayse and depression and the ad s dont work .
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WtheD: Were you self employed :-\ - the payments would have shown/not on your monthly pay slip!
What makes you think that the ADs don't work? It was the 1st prescription that some GPs would hand out but they have been advised to go the HRT route these days.
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sone month the ni was taken others not I assumed that I had paid too mych one mobth and they wete balancing it out im not very good with this type thing byt when I rang DWP they seemed to think it was ok
been on four ads over four years and my depression comes out of no where still and floors me . today I started tocontinue my reduction of duloxetine as psychiatrist insidts I dont need ads but therapy which theres no sign of Inearly rang tthe crisis team today but theres no point not a lot they do . im now wondering about asking my gp to try a tricyclic ad has anyone had any ecperience with then
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I believe that ADs have their place in the healing process. Perhaps 'therapy' should have started before you began withdrawal! Let us know how you get on.
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I saw that! Nice that they are so considerate, though I'm glad I didn't work for a company like that. It was only because I worked for a company that was so horrible about my extreme menstrual problems and threatened to fire me that I had the guts to hassle my GP for more help. If I had worked for a more considerate employer, I would probably have kept suffering until meno!
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I wonder what this company will do when all of the female employees find their cycles gradually synchronising and they all have the same days/weeks off?
Taz x ;D