Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: nella on January 30, 2016, 11:58:15 AM
-
Hello everyone,
I'm Nella, I'm a new member here.
I am opening this thread so hopefully someone with a similar experience to mine can give me some advice.
My menopause started in 2011 and symptoms were quite manageable until July 2015.
In July 2015, out of the blue, I started having a constant, persistent feeling of having to urinate. Just the stimulus. I don't actually have the urgency to go to the bathroom. I "go" like 6 times a day at most. But I have this stimulus to urinate when my bladder is totally empty, always.
It only stops when I lay down in bed. The rest of the time, when I am standing or sitting, I have it all the time.
It is driving me nuts....
Because it's just exhausting.
At the same time as this symptom arised I also started having all symptoms of vaginal atrophy, and I did the mona lisa laser therapy for that. Those symptoms kinda are going away after my 3rd treatment.
But the need to urinate constantly (without actually doing it, if it makes sense) persists.
So I guess it is not one of the symptoms associated with the VA issue but something else....
I also have a stage 1 cystocele. All docs told me it should be asymptomatic but still.
I hope some of you can give me some advice or share their experiences. I am really exhausted by this!
Thank you for any help,
N
-
I have had a similar problem for almost two years. Mine, however, has to do with the other opening.... ;) I have been to two doctors which have examined me and found nothing wrong in the area. Still I often feel the urge to go when there are only small pieces in there/not finished after I have been to the toilet. I have started to assume that the problem at least to some extent is in my head. In other words, something that I have started to obsess about. But I don't know....
-
Hi Nella - What you describe does sound like VA. Many women have urinary discomfort which is mistaken for cystitis. Local oestrogen applied to the vaginal area will help a lot.
-
Oh hello, yes I recognise what you mention and I get it more in bed at night. I use Vagifem for VA but I was advised by the nurse that the urethra also becomes dry as oestogen drops and this causes discomfort which feels like the need to urinate.
The Vagifem keeps the VA under control but I also have Estriol cream for use externally to help with the dryness in the urethra and surrounding area and it does help with that.
I really know what you mean, it is like you really want to go but the feeling is not in your bladder but further towards the outside.
20032003 what you describe I find I get when my haemorrhoids flare up as the inflammation in the rectum can make it feel as though I need to go to the toilet. When I go to the toilet it also aggravates them and then it can feel like I still need to go when I have finished.
-
Yep sounds like VA to me, I used Ovestin for a while and it went away
-
You probably have the start of vaginal atrophy >:( ::) so need to start treatment. It should ease the feeling of the need to pee - 4 me that feeling also settles in my belly, like it's heavy and full. Anything to relieve the symptoms has to be good.
20032 ……… have you tried drinking Actimel or similar? For me slow transit is eased by 3/4 pots a day, it certainly encourages the digestive system to empty fully. Otherwise I have small pieces left behind :-X :-[ - with the constant feeling of needing to empty the bowel.
-
Babyjane and CLKD: I think you both might be right.... I did take actimel, but only one a day (the drink variety), for a while. It certainly didn't hurt, but I wasn't perfect. And, yes, the specialist did find evidence of an old hemmoroidh on the right side a few centimeters in. And that is where I feel irritation and swelling on-and-off! Can that swell up intermittantly? Maybe with hormone surges?
-
well mine can and do, certainly. I have ointment and suppositories to take them down when they do
-
well mine can and do, certainly. I have ointment and suppositories to take them down when they do
Unfortunately I find that the creams and suppositories hurt more than they heal these days. When it was really painful last winter the suppositories were wonderful, but now I usually just leave it be.....
-
20032003
Not all local oestrogen products hurt.
Gynest cream (think it's called Estradiol now) helped me a lot when I was having problems with VA.
It has a very low level of hormone, it's very unlikely to cause pain.
I didn't have problem with it and I've been allergic to antihistamines (Triludan) ::)
-
20032003
Not all local oestrogen products hurt.
Gynest cream (think it's called Estradiol now) helped me a lot when I was having problems with VA.
It has a very low level of hormone, it's very unlikely to cause pain.
I didn't have problem with it and I've been allergic to antihistamines (Triludan) ::)
Thank you, but I was talking about the hemmorhoid creams and suppositories... ;)
-
20032003
Not all local oestrogen products hurt.
Gynest cream (think it's called Estradiol now) helped me a lot when I was having problems with VA.
It has a very low level of hormone, it's very unlikely to cause pain.
I didn't have problem with it and I've been allergic to antihistamines (Triludan) ::)
Thank you, but I was talking about the hemmorhoid creams and suppositories... ;)
Oops sorry - I was talking about things likely to help VA hence problems with urination....... ::)
-
20032003
Not all local oestrogen products hurt.
Gynest cream (think it's called Estradiol now) helped me a lot when I was having problems with VA.
It has a very low level of hormone, it's very unlikely to cause pain.
I didn't have problem with it and I've been allergic to antihistamines (Triludan) ::)
Thank you, but I was talking about the hemmorhoid creams and suppositories... ;)
Oops sorry - I was talking about things likely to help VA hence problems with urination....... ::)
I know. My fault, though. I shouldn't have hijacked the thread with my problems in the first place! A little confusing.... ;)
-
:rofl:
-
Thank you everyone for the replies!
I actually am at the second month of estrogen, I took the estrogen one month locally and one orally (it is a medication that can be taken in both ways). I took both progesterone and estriol.
I see all of you are agreeing about it being vaginal atrophy.... I am just discouraged because the laser therapy did ease the vaginal symptoms only but not the bladder ones. And the local estrogen did basically nothing. Sometimes it feels even worse.
I used a ton of meds though in the last months, so I'll need to check and write you down all I used. The estrogen was progeffik+colpogyn. I am outside the UK so I don't know maybe some of the medications you have are more helpful than these....
Any chance the stage 1 cystocele became symptomatic with the onset of VA?
Thanks again for the advice everyone.
N
-
20032 ……… have you tried drinking Actimel or similar? For me slow transit is eased by 3/4 pots a day, it certainly encourages the digestive system to empty fully. Otherwise I have small pieces left behind :-X :-[ - with the constant feeling of needing to empty the bowel.
CLKD: Can you have slow transit without your poo being superhard? My experience the last few years are that my BMs tend to be smaller and more frequent. I have to go more often to get the same sensation ofcbeing done....
-
Hi nella - as you think the local oestrogen didn't help, maybe you could try using a vaginal moisturiser on the underneath area, as it could be dryness causing the problem as babyjane says. I use 'Yes' water-based vaginal moisturiser and find this a great help. (I also use local oestrogen two days a week, but use the moisturiser at all the other times.)
-
Yep - 4 me it's the feeling of needing to 'go' ………. then the movement can vary in intensity, structure, speed ::) …….. I found that Actimel-type drinks helped the spasm through the digestive tract so that I 'go' daily, if I stop drinking them, as recently, my bottom feels full :-\. I have to put a tick on the calendar otherwise I can't remember if I've been/not :-X
Nella: How's the symptoms that started the thread?
-
Yep - 4 me it's the feeling of needing to 'go' ………. then the movement can vary in intensity, structure, speed ::) …….. I found that Actimel-type drinks helped the spasm through the digestive tract so that I 'go' daily, if I stop drinking them, as recently, my bottom feels full :-\. I have to put a tick on the calendar otherwise I can't remember if I've been/not :-X
Hrm... I go every day - at least twice. So that's not the problem for me. This might be TMI but it's like my butt has become SO sensitive the last couple of years...
Oh, and I do apologize to Nella for somewhat hijacking your thread!
-
Hi all, thanks for the replies!
Jenna,
do you mean putting the vaginal cream deep "towards" the bladder or in the outside area around the urethra?
Stellajane,
yeah, it's exhausting. I have no other word for it.... I think we have quite similar symptoms then, but I don't feel it much in the urethral area, more in my tummy if that makes sense. Yeah I think too it may be more related to the cystoceles than the VA but just because all my other symptoms of VA went away with laser therapy and this one is the only one who stayed the same. :(
Like when you have to really go pee but without ever ending the stimulus by peeing....
It is interesting you say you have more feeling of having to pee during the progesterone stage of the HRT, I got told something similar in my intro in this same forum, since I am taking the progesterone right now and more than one person told me it is a no no for bladder issues.... I'll discontinue it for sure!
CLKD,
unfortunately the symptoms are always the same. I am starting to think I'll have to cope with this forever. Such stubborn they are
20032003,
no need to apologize and you did not hijack my thread, no problem at all! I hope you can get relief from your symptoms soon.
They sound like a great discomfort.
Thanks again,
N
-
Usually regular treatment can ease VA. It may take a few tries at the different preparations as well as adding KY jelly or Vaseline etc. to the outer lips to stop dryness and itching.
-
Hi Nella - I use the Estriol Cream or the 'Yes' water-based moisturiser all over the vulval area, so around the entrance to the vagina, around the urethra and on all the smooth skin underneath.
-
HI all I know this is a really old thread but it is the best description of what I’m going through. I would be so grateful to know if this was resolved. The op has described how it is for me all the time. I have pessaries and did the loading twice, then twice a week, then a week of every day, now every other day plus cream. Plus pelvic floor therapy. Nothing is changing it.
-
You need to use treatment every day, pessaries, Estriol cream, moisturiser. Most of the advice given for Vaginal Atrophy is out of date and its a matter of finding what works for you, you take control. If you are over 50 you can buy your own treatment as a back up if your surgery restricts your usage.
This document will help you to understand what's happening to your body and the range of treatments available, its a great study.
https://bssm.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/GSM-BSSM.pdf
-
Thank you, I think Im really struggling with a kind of routine? Ive seesawed between the loading doses, then every few days etc. This description is exactly how Ive felt. They’ve offered a referral to gynae as it’s not improved at all since oestrogen started (local) end Feb.
-
EmTyler - Don't see a gynae, they often know little more than many GPs seem to about vaginal atrophy! Ask 4 a referral to a dedicated menopause clinic, there are waiting lists: if conditions improve when the appt does arrived, U can cancel if no longer required. Point out that many ladies require appropriate VA treatment every night ! We cannot over dose on replacement and the info in the box is out of date big time.
If your GP is worried about suggest that he/she contact Dr Louise Newson directly for advice ;-). In the meantime get that treatment up there every night as well as moisture's if necessary.
-
EmTyler - it's still very early days if you've only been using local oestrogen since the end of February so I don't think a referral is the way to go at the moment.
I too struggled initially with symptoms returning. I did a 4 week load and felt loads better. I then dropped down to alternate days and my symptoms returned. Once using daily again, I felt much better.
Since then I have experimented with the frequency of use and have come to the conclusion that I need to use daily. I can miss the odd day but no more.
-
Hi Im sorry I dont know how to tag people but SundayGirl and CLKD this is so helpful thank you. I didn’t know menopause clinics existed!
This description by Nella is exactly me which is why it was such a relief almost to read it.
I feel overwhelmed by all the choices.
So far I’ve done pessaries since mid fEb (loading/ sporadic etc) and recently cream a couple of times (different days). Also three doses of antibiotics for UTI/suspected UTI/ not suspected but lets see, and two bouts of thrush treatment (after swabs). Im exhausted!
I am very lost as to a plan. Ive just bought moisturiser, lube (both YES), probiotics on order. Tested B12 (fine).
The vaginal dryness is much less an issue than the bladder pressure and not empty feeling.
-
We don't tag on MM Forum but keeping to the same thread to read any responses should get you replies. ;)
Which ABs were prescribed and for how long each time? Your GP should have realised that your symptoms are more likely to be due to oestrogen levels dropping : which can cause the body to become dry: inside and out; skin, scalp, deep in the ears, eyes, vagina, anus, between the toes - as well as muscles may become lax = aches and pains. Sadly any medics simply don't think outside the box for repeated urine infection-type symptoms which VA mimics really really well.
Get that VA treatment up there every night for at lest 3 weeks plus a moisturiser on the outer area when necessary. Twice a week or intermittently when symptoms niggle won't help. Because the vaginal walls may be thin they can alter the sensations in the urethra = the symptoms which U R experiencing.
-
Hi, to be fair this all started in January when I tested positive for a UTI, and had two courses. Then I had an online urine analysis which showed group B and had penicillin which I think did knock some of the active pain on the head. What was left was this persistent feeling, id never heard of VA at all despite being on HRT generally for three years. Since mid Feb Ive used pessaries (two week loading dose) and then another week (repeat loading dose). The cream is additional and for external use (used three times).
Maybe I will start again with the daily pessaries. It’s just quite confusing. Plus Im worried they are giving me thrush. Ive ditched the applicator as it felt manky to reuse the same one despite my best efforts at cleaning it.
-
Applicators wash under warm running water.
Thrush - Yesterday I read that this is less common as we age. Must find the article to quote.
My symptoms niggle below the belly button with a feeling of fullness so I know that it's time to reload.
-
I do think that if you have tested positive for thrush and had an actual UTI, then you are not just simply suffering from VA and it makes your journey all the more complicated. You will have a lot of trial and error experimenting with all the treatments available until you find a solution.
There are posts here with women having to navigate their way around VA whilst suffering from thrush and other conditions that affect the vagina, research is everything to help you find the answers that will help you eventually.
-
Thanks Ayesha, it does feel quite overwhelming. The thrush is new since starting the vaginal oestrogen 9and possibly triggered by the antibiotics?). It sounds as though it is trial and error rather than everyone finding that two weeks loading plus then twice a week works for them.
-
All my symptoms have come back - I had several great days of alternating external cream and internal pessaries and then a couple of days ago I realised that I was back to the start. What else can I do? Is it too much oestrogen? Not enough? No option to add testosterone.
-
Pessaries every day and a smear of Estriol twice a day and hopefully that will help. Adding thrush to the mix makes it all the more complicated in trying to relieve the symptoms, it will be an uphill battle for you.
Use the search box here for more info, lots of ladies in the past have been in the same situation as you.
-
EmTyler - get some LIVE yoghurt down you. ABs can wipe out all the bacteria so LIVE yoghurt can ease the digestive tract from top to bottom. Thrush-symptoms can irritate if the vagina is dry, so keeping up with the VA treatment every night is important regardless of what GPs suggest.
-
Amazing thank you lovely people, it’s such a relief to read replies and I will try the search function also.
I’m vegan but I have bought some probiotics for vaginal health and haven’t started them, will do that. I also found a menopause clinic I might ask about. Maybe I do need to try every day plus cream, thank you