Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: Clovie on January 22, 2016, 04:02:55 PM
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Apologies if this is a bit garbled but I've just been through the most awful few days ever with my ‘mood swings' and only today can I be motivated enough to ask for help on here. :(
My mood swings are always bad with constant peaks and troughs but this time I don't know how I'm still married to be honest. :(
This is/was me at my hormonal worst..... I hate everybody because I feel that no-one likes me, little insignificant things wind me up and make me either angry or extremely sad, I'm preoccupied with thoughts of dying, and pre-occupied about my kids who are teens growing up and moving away, and feeling they don't like me (I feel I have to nag them to do basic stuff all the time and I hate that we seem to be at odds the whole time :-\) I just cannot bear the thought of sex, my husband annoys me and I'll cause massive rows about something/anything from the past, at my worst I can't be bothered with showering, my hair is an absolute mess, I'm gaining weight, I avoid venturing out of the house without my husband because I feel I will have a bad experience somewhere, for example someone in a shop being rude to me for nothing and I'd have to say something, it's easier if I don't go out. I'm frightened to drive anywhere, that fear is getting worse......... there's probably much more.....
I realise I do need to see a doctor – but I'm scared to do so. The thought of going to see a doctor makes me feel nauseous. I don't know what to say, where to start..... :'(
Husband doesn't really want me on antidepressants as he seems to see them as a bad thing to be avoided at all costs. He's had that opinion in the past, he's not forbidding me or anything, it's just he thinks things can be sorted in other ways .
I had PND after 2 births and then started with PMS after my last baby which has just morphed into this hormonal hell. I tried antidepressants then and didn't seem to help. I'm progesterone intolerant to top it all off.
I just can't see an end to it, feeling like this. :'(
I'm on Ellesste solo 2mg and Utrogestan which I only use every couple of months due to my intolerance. I'm 52, started on HRT due to constant PMS and hot flushes. Can't say its helped my mood at all really.
We've recently moved areas and because I'm feeling like this I've not made any new friends in the year we've been here, don't know how to be honest. I'm very lonely and feeling sorry for myself to be honest. I know people will say “Why not join a group†or something but I just can't do it. I feel I have no life just now. :'(
I suppose I just wanted to moan to someone who understands...... thanks for reading.
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Omg u could be talking about me!! I really have no answers but just wanted to say I feel your pain and I hope u find relief somewhere its all so bloody awful xxx if I ever find something that helps I will let u know x
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thank you Tinkerbell.
I feel I've really really let myself down now - by even starting this thread :'(
I mean kind of now I've written it down :-\ because I've admitted it, :-\ and I've been denying it all, for a long time, soldiering on. :-\
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Your husband needs a HUGE :kick:
Tell him from me if we could 'heal' ourselves we wouldn't need GPs, medication, help :bang: :bang: :bang: If your husband is so clever, then get him to open a Clinic so that no one needs ADs etc. any more?
Right, I'll stop shouting and say :welcomemm:
I fought against anti-depressant medication but without it, I wouldn't get out of bed. Did you have support during PND? I would suggest that you ring your new GP and ask for a call-back so that you don't have to venture into the Surgery. Your GP may visit you at home or suggest that you go for a very early appt. or one at the end of his/her evening Clinic, so that you can avoid people. Nothing worse than someone you know saying 'how R U?' or you thinking they will gab it around that you were seen in the GP Surgery ::)
Have a browse round the various rooms here. Your Practice Nurse may be more clued up on HRT etc.. Let us know how you get on. There is a 'page' for husbands on here somewhere ……… it might be worth you printing it off and wrapping it round your husband's sandwiches >:( :-X
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Hi Clovie - so sorry to hear you are feeling like this.
My first suggestion would be to change your hRT - ie maybe try a transdermal HRT like patch or gel, at this point. You should then be able to adjust your dose a bit more until you feel better. Are you getting the mood dips cyclically or do you feel like this all the time? In other words are you still cycling hormones monthly - or do you bleed in between the utro? Have you thought of a Mirena which acts more locally?
Sorry I can't help more - just a few suggestions. Maybe appeal in the private section if there is anyone in your town or nearby who might be up for meeting for a mutual meno chat - or try on Mumsnet if you are a member as I know they have local meet-up groups.
In the meantime have a :bighug:
Hurdity x
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I noted Mumsnet too ………..
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Clovie, sorry to hear you are having such a difficult time. You definitely need to change something and like others have said, I would say your medication needs looking at. I don't rate oral oestrogen at all and it didn't help me in the least so I would also recommend going the transdermal route either patch or gel. The problem with oral HRT is that much of it gets lost in the digestive system and I found that it doesn't do what it says on the packet for symptom relief.
If you can persuade your doctor to prescribe the oestrogen gel that I would recommend you start with that because from my experience, it works better than anything else. Leading hormone expert Professor Studd recommends 2-3 pumps of gel every day and then 100mg of Utrogestan taken for 7 days every month for women who are progesterone intolerantand suffering with depression.
How much Utrogestan are you taking at the moment?
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Hello Clovie.
I agree that a change of medication is worth thinking about. During my worst meno times I promised myself that I would keep an open mind and try anything. I also read posts from other women who felt better when taking the right drugs and reasoned that if they could be helped so could I. At the moment I take an AD called Venlafaxine and use Evorel Conti 50 mcg patches. I am not out of the woods yet but I am heaps better than I was.
I understand your husband's concern and I'm sure he has your best interests at heart but it is your decision to try any treatment and when he sees you improving I'm sure he'll agree that you did the right thing.
Many of us have suffered in ways similar to you and have recovered so don't despair, there is hope!
Wishing you well and keep posting. You are not alone.
K.
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MaryG, if you only use 100mg for 7 days are you expected to a yearly scan to check your womb lining?
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I feel I've really really let myself down now - by even starting this thread :'(
I mean kind of now I've written it down :-\ because I've admitted it, :-\ and I've been denying it all, for a long time, soldiering on. :-\
NEVER think that! By admitting it, you've actually taken the first step to getting it sorted out. And if you can take the first step, you can take the second, third, fourth... It's not a failure, it's an achievement.
I can't add anything else to what the others have said, but am sending you a huge hug and well done for taking the first step to improve your situation.
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GPL, Professor Studd certainly didn't stipulate that I definitely have to have one but I have at least one per year anyway. As my gynaecologist says, there is much more to worry about that just lining build up, you should get ovaries and all the other bits checked annually with internal ultrasound anyway.
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Hi Clovie I too know exactly how you feel. I have just spent pretty much most of the night awake. I am going away for the weekend and things like that really heighten my anxiety. I have just started taking beta-blockers again as the last month has been awaful. My mood swings are dreadful and my poor other half bears the brunt of it all. Just like you he gets right under my skin and everything he does pretty much annoys me. I can't stand him touching me and have even said on many occassion we need to split up. I am on HRT and have tried several. Now on Premique low dose and have got on ok with it as initially it reduced my anxiety. I do think our anxiety is worse if stressed and I know mine gets worse if I have a busy schedule. I wish we had a little switch we could hit to just turn it off and carry on as normal. Can't remember the last time I felt normal and happy! I am considering the AD route as i have tried pretty much eveything else.The point is you are not alone. I hope you feel better soon and send you big virtual hugs. X
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Hello sugarspice and welcome to the forum.
I just wanted say I know exactly how you feel as any change in routine sends me into a spin and I can't seem to cope with any pressure. Well done for having a weekend away!
Sending hugs to you and all of us suffering from menopausal nerves. We deserve a bloomin' medal!
Take care.
K.
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Clovie...bless you! You're depressed Hun, get to your dr for AD's, I take Dosulepin they're mild and not like the SSRI's Prozac etc. Get on Oestrogel its bio identical HRT and more natural. I know exactly how you feel. Read some self help books, practice mindfulness (living in the present moment) MOST important, KEEP going drag yourself into the shower, go for a walk. BELIEVE me you won't want to I KNOW, but it's very IMPORTANT in your getting out of this. There are some good helplines if you need to talk to people MIND are always there to listen. Big hugs, you will get better! X
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Hope you feeling better clovie. Orchid your post inspired me!
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I want to sincerely thank each one of you who have replied to my post :thankyou:
You have no idea how much I am grateful for these replies.
I posted at a very very low point, just as I was starting to crawl out of the most awful PMS type depressed time - I still feel bad but thankfully not AS bad, I still know I need to bite the bullet and see a doctor as I am terrified next month I might go through that again :(
It always follows the same pattern, I feel so desolate during the 10 days up to a period and as my period tails off I start to feel better and that I can cope with it next time - but the truth is, Im tired of feeling like this, its wearing me out :(
For the sake of my marriage, my poor husband and kids I need to do something.......
SOOO grateful for the replies as I've said , and answering questions asked now -
Hurdity - yes I suffer these lows cyclically. I was given utrogestan to use every month (12 days supposedly) but I only use it every 3 months or so because it affects me so badly. In between I'm still having my own periods regularly, well, within a 3/4 day window, periods are scant but definitely still there. This bad PMS depressive episode was on the run up to a 'natural' period, so no utrogestan involved, which is scary :'(
Mary - I'm supposed to take 12 days every month, but I never have, couldn't manage 12 days, usually struggle to manage 10 days at most. I usually bleed after about 5 days utrogestan anyway, I use it about every 3 months. I was told by my GP a fews years ago before I was on Utrogestan that I could use the then synthetic prog once every 3 month as I was intolerant of prog, so I'm using that advice regarding the utrogestan. I KNOW I shouldn't but at this point I really do not care :'(
VERY interesting your info from Prof Studd about what intolerant women can use! I'd like to try that :)
Orchid - I looked up Dosulepin and was delighted to see that it is a form of Dothiepin!! That is the ONLY thing that worked for me during PND years ago, it helped mre sleep, it was wonderful! Orchid - are you in the UK? Its just that one time around 3 years ago during my finding out I was progesterone intolerant I asked for Dothiepin and was told it had been taken off the market as it was unsafe? :( Was wondering if it had been made available again?
Thank you all for your good wishes, hugs and encouragement, Im so grateful, you've no idea how much you've all helped.
I will definitely ask for oestrogel instead of elleste. I just need to pluck up courage to see a doctor now....... :(
thanks again, and hugs to all who are suffering similarly x
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Hi Clovie
Glad you're feeling brighter now. Just wanted to say I really empathise with your first post, I could have written it myself.
We are classic, poster girls for hormonal intolerance according to Prof. Studd. Have you googled his website, and read his case studies? You'll think he's writing about you, personally. He talks about how some women start with a long history of PMS, followed by PND, followed by worsening PMS as they go into middle age and peri. It's a recognised pattern.
Since I turned 40 my PMS really escalated. As soon as I'd ovulated my mood would slump, I'd feel so grey and hopeless. I would be snappy with DH and our DDs and gorging on junk food. It was just wretched. Symptoms wouldn't start to lift until my period was finishing, so I was only getting about 10-12 normal/good days per month.
And then one month the symptoms just stayed all month, and suddenly I started getting random anxiety. That was Nov. 2013 and I have battled the symptoms ever since.
Interesting that you took Doluspine (a tricyclic) when you had PND and liked it. When I had PND I took Amitriptyline (a tricyclic) and loved how it calmed my anxiety and helped me sleep. I found the newer SSRIs didn't make me feel good at all, just tense and wired all the time. I think that hormonal anxiety/depression is quite unique and unlike conventional anxiety.
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My gosh, Gypsy, I agree and identify with every SINGLE last word of your post!!! :o
Yep, PND, after all births to a lesser or greater degree, them PMS every month - but strangely much worse after I stopped the BCP, might be coincidence that I was by that time 39, so possibly hormonal changes beginning there... Then like you said, PMS getting longer and longer, managing only a week or so of feeling OK, during PMS times I'd feel useless, shy, sad for no reason, irritable, felt that no-one liked me (we've moved around the UK quite a bit with my hubby's work so I've often been in the position of having to start again making friends, and haven't had the stability of a close family nearby or long standing friendships, which might have helped)
Then edging into perimenopause, more and more PMS type symptoms, then the whole finding out I was prog intolerant......It's been a night mare if I'm totally honest.
Also identify with SSRIs not making a jot of difference to me, apart from bad side effects. Dothiepin was the only thing that made any beneficial difference.
I am now seriously considering going to see Prof Studd, at my HRT review (coming up) I will politely demand the oestrogel and Dosulepin, if I don't get it I will make apt to see him.
Thanks again Gypsy, I really appreciate your input xx
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Glad to help Clovie.
I think it helps, in a way, to know it's not 'us' who are going bonkers, it's our hormones, iyswim? I really think this should be a universally recognised and labled condition called 'Hormonal Intolerance Syndrome' or similar. It would make like so much easier for sufferers (so they wouldn't think they were having a breakdown) and clinicians (so they would know what to look for, and correctly prescribe).
When I went to the Meno Clinic the doctor wasn't interested in my bloods. She was only interested in the fact I'd always had PMS, and had gone in to have PND. She told me that, very unfortunately, it was going to be an almost forgone conclusion that I would have a return of my PND symptoms (but minus the baby, obviously) when my periods started getting much lighter and shorter, and I started the perimenopause.
I feel bitterly resentful that I'm having to go through all of this again, just when our children are becoming much more independent, and I should be relaxing more and enjoying life.
I would definitely recommend seeing a proper specialist in hormonal issues, as GPs know so little. I see Annie Evans in 6 weeks and she comes very highly recommended. You might find that if they can get your HRT right you won't need the Doluspine eventually.
Back when I first started with peri I went back on Amitriptyline for 7 months. It definitely helped, and I slept like a log, but I still got breakthrough symptoms of low mood, agitation, panicky, tearfulness etc.
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Insideout - some pro/prebiotics have live bacteria, certainly the LIVE Greek yoghurt that I use helps my gut as well as when I had thrush years ago, applied down there was soothing and cooling ;)
I have found 'actimel' useful too ……… in keeping my bowels regular which eases any IBS symptoms. Phew ……. stops most of the bloating most of the time. My Mum uses other similar type drinks ……..
Don't the kidneys detox the body naturally :-\ ……….. Himself tries to cook from 'scratch' most days, we grow as much veg. as we can in our small plot as well as various fruits. We have gone back to buying meats from the butcher but I do enjoy the odd pizza ::) ………..
Clovlie - let us know how you get on. Might I suggest that you contact NAPS ? they gave me lots of support when I had bad PMS ……. first advising me to eat every 3 hours, 24/7, 52/12. Helped keep the blood sugar levels even apparently. Slow release food stuffs can be useful at this time of Life, i.e. bananas, oats, pasta ……...
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Clovie, thanks for the update and it's good that you are feeling better. Hope you manage to get the Oestrogel from you doctor, let us know how you get on.
All the best.
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New beginnings...so pleased my post helped you! We all need as much support as possible don't we to get through these awful times. Migraine and adrenalin surges for me this morning ugh!! Take care, big hugs x
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Hi Clovie
Depending on where you are in the UK you may well find that there is a good progressive gynae nearer to you than Prof Studd if you get no joy from your GP - but hopefully you will be successful :)
Hope you're feeling better today
Hurdity x
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Hi Clovie,
Hope I'm posting in the right place! You answered my 1st post and I left a quick message/thank you there for you too.
Just wanted to say I hope you feel ready to go and see a GP, as it has to be done in order to get the ball rolling. I've left it again for ages, just kept putting it off but have finally been talked into making an appointment and already feel better for just taking that small step forward.
I think I kind of understand where your hubby's coming from with the AD's. I haven't wanted to take that particular path either, mainly because of a loved one in the past having a really hard time on them - that was valium though and it was many years ago and I know they've greatly improved in range and quality. If you feel they may help you at the moment then surely you have to at least try them.
So much good advice, support and wisdom here. It's given me a lift in itself.
Best wishes Clovie!
Keep on keeping on and we'll all get there eventually, probably be knackered though... ::)
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Valium is an anti-anxiety medication these days. For short-time use only. ADs have improved as has knowledge about prescribing.
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Thanks for all the input once again, I am, again, so very grateful. :)
About going to the doctors...arrgh... so nervous about going :-\......Hubby away on business now until Thursday night but he told me he would take care of it all for me when I broke down and told him I was throwing the towel in and wanted to try ADs.
He was so sweet. He knows I really have a ‘thing' about doctors that I avoid going, that it makes me feel ill, and I don't trust doctors (just because of things that have happened in past) He said he would make the appointment for me (in case the receptionist is snappy) and he would come with me and support me fully. He wants me feeling better. :)
I can't blame him for not wanting me on Ads initially - I suppose I've always been of the same mind as my hubby regarding ADs I suppose. I've always seen taking them as being a failure. Like I ought to be strong?
I'm also afraid I won't be allowed to come off them. I feel I'm signing myself over in a way and fear I may get locked up. I KNOW this sounds so stupid but it has stopped me seeing my GP in the past about PMS and lingering PND, as cards on the table, I was afraid I'd have the children taken away if I admitted to just feeling down (again I KNOW this is stupid!!! – it's just I had an ex who always threatened this and I've lived in fear of something like this ever since ) I think I've seen too many old films where women were 'carted off' somewhere...
Anyway, I'm older now, the kids are all older, and I know they wouldn't be removed from me. I'm nowhere near bad enough to be locked up. I just get ‘down' as a result of hormonal swings. :'(
Thing is, when I DO go to doctors I just know I'll cry :'( I know I'll not explain myself correctly, I'll be all garbled and jumbled. I always am. I feel I don't have the time to explain my problem, that the doctor is looking at the clock.
I've had panic attacks in doctors waiting rooms before , my fear of going to the doctors is that bad! I feel doctors don't listen anyway....
Any-hoo. Thanks for reading if you've got this far, I think I feel a bit better for getting all that out.
There it is. “My name is Clovie – and I'm afraid of going to the doctors.†:D
Sending best wishes, good vibes and big hugs to all who are suffering in any way due to menopause. Who'd be a woman, eh? :-\
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HOpefully you are feeling a little better with husband to help? I was the same with doctors, and for same reason as they had no interest in me and offered no help. So, I changed and changed again, I am now lucky enough to have a great GP (at last) who prescribed my AD's and keeps a close eye on me, she has told me it is all entirely up to me how long and what dose I take, as I feel sure it will be with you, you only need to take them for as long as you feel you need too. When I started I thought that would be just short term, but now I do feel it will be a bit longer and I know I have the support of a great GP to keep an eye on me, I have gone from visiting GP each week to 3 weekly now, never been there so often and also scared to make appointments so they do that for me before I leave, I also have the on-line facility to do it that way too. Though the receptionist at the new GP is also lovely.
There is no shame to getting the help you need, hopefully you will be like me in a few weeks time and just wish you had done it sooner. Nothing beats feeling more like your old self, I spent 3.5 years not being.
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When we feel low we can imagine and feel everything you describe. Maybe your husband needs to make a double appt. or one at the end of the day when you don't feel rushed. I take a list with me when stressed, hand to my GP and ask him to work through the essentials with me.
Let us know how you get on!
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Hello new on here but reading your post Clovie ,that is me !! I hate all this anxiety and panic as I feel stupid as why am I like this, I have a happy marriage, kids and grandchildren, nice job and great friends so why do I feel like my life is shit? I am 45 , 46 on Sunday, have been feeling like this for about 6mths or so, had blood tests for everything which was awful as had panic attack whilst taking blood! My GP says my hormones are up and down and thinks I'm peri menopausal, I am on antidepressants Sertraline which really help as I think if I wasn't on them I would be a complete mess, I get hot flushes which make me feel dizzy which starts off my anxiety, my sex life is non existent,but hubby has been so understanding,I have awful hair and nails and can't sleep, what a dream eh ? I'm on the mini pill so I don't have periods so couldn't tell by them but everything else ticks the boxes, I do try and stay positive but it's hard but talk to your GP it helps xx
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I'm sooo glad you've got the support of a good helpful GP now Sadlynda! :D That makes all the difference, I had a lovely GP once in another area, but that was years ago before all this meno stuff. I long for someone like her again.
Yes CLKD, and thanks. Ill def ask hubby to make a double appointment, and write some notes in case I crumble. (huh, I know I will!!)
Nuttymum (I'm sure you're not! :) ) I'm sorry you're feeling like this too :( Seems there's an awful lot of us suffering almost identical feelings. :(
I feel for ladies suffering this back in 1930s- 1960s? (not sure which decades, well, in the past anyway) who were given tranquillizers and left to their own devices, or put into asylum type places. :'(
I just want the old me back - I want to feel normal? At the moment I feel a touch better but still haven't left the house for days because hubby away with work. I'm scared to drive plus I just cannot face going out. I hate that I'm like this, but feel powerless to change it....
Sending hugs and tonnes of support to those who need it, and massive thanks to those offering support on this thread. Appreciate it more than you know x
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Stop trying to change it. I spent 3 months trapped inside due to anxiety but with medication and support, I did recover. I thought I would never open the front door again. Try to live in the now, I don't look any further than half a day ahead ;)
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Good luck with the doc Clovie - wretched hormones >:(
Nuttymum70 :welcomemm: - if you have been having hot flushes then maybe you are peri-menopausal? Unfortunately the mini pill is not good for this time of your life because some of the types actually suppress oestrogen levels which could end up making you feel worse. Also if you are heading for an early menopause you need oestrogen in the form of HRT rather than anti-depressants. I'm not sure how you can see where you are (period-wise) without coming off the mini pill - but of course you will want the contraception. What did your blood tests show?
You could always switch to one of the CCP preparations with bio-identical oestrogen, eg Qlaira which will give you the added oestrogen as well as provide contraception. This is supposed to help even out the hormonol fluctuations that occur during peri-menopause and make you feel as you do - so that you could stop the ADs. There are a couple of members who have tried this - Briony...Docs are not supposed to prescribe these (ADs) for peri-menopausal symptoms although many docs are not clued up about menopause and HRT so continue to dish out ADs - when you need your whole hormonal regime looking into and adjusted to your needs!
Hurdity x :)