Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: Niamh on December 11, 2015, 08:10:04 PM
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Hello had some really helpful advice the other day and wonder if I could ask again. Im new to HRT and seeing professor studd for escalating pmt, he's got me on 3 pumps of ostrogel daily, testerone gel too and 100mg of utrogestan for day 1-7 of each month (low dose as progesterone intolerant). Day 11 today and for the last few days especially today ive felt pretty low and not the good place I was before starting the utrogestan phase. Prof Studd had me just use oestrogen and testosterone for about 6 weeks on its own before I started utrogestan and I felt great. This is only the first month so as I said new to me but is this normal ive read a bit about dipping after the progesterone but things should pick up....? Thank you I see him again in Jan x
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Niamh, yes, I think it is normal to feel a dip after your stop using the Utrogestan and before the period starts but don't worry, your system should get used to it and it will probably get better with time but if not, at least it will only be for a few days each month. Are you taking the Utrogestan vaginally? It does work better when taken that way because more of it reaches the womb and also there are fewer side effects like PMT and breast pain.
Like you, I am also intolerant to progesterone but Utrogestan taken vaginally is the lesser of several evils! Professor Studd prescribed exactly the same HRT regime for me but I have since reduced my Oestrogel dose to two pumps every day but I split the dose by using one pump every 12 hours in order to avoid the afternoon oestrogen dip and it seems to be working well so far.
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Ooh thank you that's reassuring! He said I might bleed on day 10 but if not not to worry, I haven't really a tiny bit of spotting but nothing really. Hopefully I'll feel better in a few days :( ive not taken it vaginally but would like to as I did get a bit of my pmt insomnia and anxiety then felt tired groggy and a bit sick. I did want to ask professor studd first tho but maybe I should just do it next month, do you just insert the 100mg capsules?
Interesting about the ostrogel did he reduce your dose? Have you found 2 better? I could split my dose again just might talk it over with him next month
Thank you it's all so confusing!
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Good, I hope that has helped! I didn't speak to Professor Studd about taking Utrogestan vaginally but the box I bought in Spain states that it can be taken in this way and the gynaecologist I see (not Studd) always recommends it is used that way because it has fewer side effects and works better because it is not lost in your digestive system.
The reason I reduced my Oestrogel dose and started splitting it is because (a) I get heavy periods (the more oestrogen you take the heavier your periods will be) and (b) I am also intolerant to Utrogestan but to a lesser extent. While on the Utro. cycle, I always had a silent migraine (migraine aura without headache) 12 hours or more after taking the Oestrogel so with the help of other members on here, I decided to split the dose to one pump every 12 hours and so far, after two months of using it in this way, it has worked very well so I will stick with it.
You might want to ring Professor Studd's office and ask either him or his secretary what they think about taking Utrogestan vaginally.
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Thank you again :) I think professor studd is away really soon until I see him in Jan so yes I might make a call on Monday or drop an email. Then I could try it vaginally 1st-10th Jan. Just hoping I feel a bit better in a day or 2 .....glad youve found a regime which works for you im sure I'll get there im time x
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I'm another one who had a progesterone dip after twelve days of Utro. It would last for over a week and was hideous. Eventually switched to a BCP. If I went back on hrt again I would only ever consider 100 mg Utro on days 1-25 in order to avoid the dip from 200mg for a shorter time. I know Prof Studd advocates 100 mg for just seven days, but that just seems very little. I guess it is ok if you have scans? X
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Mmmm interesting I feel pretty grim today definitely having a bad dip all I can do is keep going and talk to prof studd in jan and see what he thinks. I'm sure he'll advise scans but also know he's pretty much the leading expert in this so I'm very confident about his prescription and getting me sorted! For now it's grim this is the zone I lived in for so long and it's horrid, low mood, anxious, disturbed sleep, on edge :(x
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I asked prof studd about using it vaginally and he was fine with it. I said I had read about it on here and had tried it myself and found less side affects. Also you can e mail him and hes very good at replying.
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Oh gosh thank you that's great to know Ill email him but I think I'll just do it next month! Do you get a horrible dip after taking the 7 day dose? Did he alter it at all for you? That's if you had the same prescription!x
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I have just finished my utrogestan and sometimes I do feel that dip , sometimes I don't! Sometimes I get a headache after a few days of the utrogestan but nothing this time. I am 53 so not sure if I am older than you.
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Meeha, thanks for that although I am not in the least surprised that Professor Studd agrees with Utrogestan being used vaginally. I didn't actually get round to asking him because I went ahead and did it anyway.
There is no logical reason why the UK has not licensed it to be vaginally but frankly, I couldn't care less because most other countries have and experts in the field think it is much more effective when used in this way.
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Thanks Meeka im 41 and seeing prof Studd more for pmt but I suspect im also peri! This is all very helpful and reassuring ladies x
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Really sorry you're in a nasty dip Niamh, and it feels doubly worse after enjoying several good weeks, as I know only too well. I get exactly the same symptoms, feel jittery, on edge, irrational anxiety, feelings of dread etc.
Lovely. Not.
I will check back in my mood diary to see if I dipped after stopping Utro after taking 200mg for 10-12 days. I seem to think I did, and all my symptoms came back and lasted several days, if not a week?
I hope your mood perks up soon, and I'm sure it will. It's interesting that Prof. Studd advocated you just using oestrogel, on its own, for 6 weeks. Did he say this was to let it build in your system a bit?
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Ah thank you, yes he did say it was to build up in my system. I'm getting terrible insomnia again too but Ive posted separatelt about that don't know if its just the dip too :(x
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Meant to ask did this improve in time for you or did you have to try something else?
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I have just checked my mood diary and I was okay whilst taking Utrogestan, but did seem to have a dip about 4 days after stopping which coincided with the withdrawal bleed too.
I did slightly better on 50mg patch, than on the 25mg ones but actually think I should have upped to a 75mg patch or even 100mg like you. But instead I opted to try the BCP.
Overall I felt the BCP helped me more but I was still having several days of awful anxiety and low mood dotted throughout the month. So I tried a different brand which I felt great on for the first pack, thought I was cured. But then I had just a very short 4 day break off it and all my symptoms came back. In a panic I started the 2nd pack but my symptoms didn't disappear, and 2 weeks into the 2nd pack I felt dreadful and in a really bad place. So I stopped taking it.
Not sure if it was a build up of the synthetic progesterone which caused such awful anxiety and low mood?
Then I faffed with an AD for a week but felt even worse. So for the last two weeks I have just gone back to wearing a 50mg patch and am really hoping my consultant can shed some light on my issues on Tuesday.
No
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You poor thing! You are so kind replying to my crazy posts! Just feel a bit lost with it all as this is meant to stop my pmt not bring it all back mmmmm my dip started 4 days after too, I'm prog intolerant so maybe im just uber sensitive to it leaving my body too who knows but Prof Studd should know this scenario well. Just got to hang in there meanwhile the lack of sleep is just horrific and putting me right back on the edge :( I hope you find a solution too soon, it's all such a minefield thanks again x
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You're welcome. I think we're both very progesterone intolerant, considering our medical histories of PMS, PND, bad reaction to Mirena etc.
Perhaps next month you could try taking the Utro vaginally and see if that lessens the effects of withdrawal? And you have to assess how long the 'dip' lasts for. If it's just a handful of days but you feel really good for the rest of the month then is it worth it? Also is the dip for a shorter length of time than your PMS lasted?
How did you feel while actually taking the Utro?
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Yes we are and it's such fun isnt it! Not!!!!!
Yes got to see it through its only my first month and that's all really valid advice, I'm def using vaginally next month then my next appointment is 14th jan so can assess properly with prof Studd. My pms could last 2 weeks and I felt pretty shitty all the time tbh still had a PND fog so agree if this dip is only a few days it is worth it. The utro bit was bumpy for me but this is the worst bit. Feel like it will never end but that's the anxiety and lack of sleep talking, I also want to understand why as panicking it's because I'm taking too much ostrogel but again that's crazy mind talking!It's great to talk to someone who gets it as I don't have anyone else who does, friends are v understanding but with some things you have to have been there!x
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There are plenty of women here who know just what it's like, thank goodness.
When it's hormonal anxiety/depression it definitely has a very different 'feel' to the more regular types. The irrational anxiety, panic and intense feelings of despair are identical to how I felt when I had PND years ago. Only difference is that I don't have a newborn to contend with (the newborn is now taller than me and at secondary school, bless 'em).
Most people just think you feel 'a bit fed up' or that a little treat/flowers will 'cheer you up again'. Oh, if only! They just don't get how desperate and hopeless it can make you feel inside. It really is soul destroying.
And I totally get how irrational and confused it can make you feel at times. Rationally we both know it's incredibly unlikely that you're on too much oestrogel but when the manic panic hits then anything seems possible.
I really feel for you. I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy. But then mercifully it does lift and you get a 'good' few days or a week and you THEN you question if you really felt quite so bad??? And around and around you go in circles again.
Always keep posting. It's how we learn from each other.