Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => Personal Experiences => Topic started by: GypsyRoseLee on December 02, 2015, 12:52:38 PM
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On day 9 of 15mg of Mirtrazapine. Been feeling fragile but okayish. All of yesterday afternoon felt in edge and jittery so decided to reapply a 50mg patch ( had been patch free for 4-5 days). Felt bit better after few hours and slept well.
Woke this morning feeling quite okay. But all morning have been feeling more and more on edge and jittery. About 30 mins it suddenly intensified, my heart started to race, I felt icy cold in my chest and felt like I was about to faint. Just horrible.
Really worried. Not had one of those before and don't know why it happened today.
Any ideas, please? Really worried.
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Just to add it only lasted about 60 seconds in total. Now I'm back to feeling just on edge and jittery.
I have had this once only before, back in very first weeks if being peri but has never happened since. Even on my worst days.
Can't understand how it can happen while taking Mirtrazapine either and I'm on lowest dose which is the most sedating.
Can't think it's to do with my patch?
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Maybe a sudden hit of estrogen perhaps :-\
Have you been eating regularly whilst attending to DD ?
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I had a good dinner last night at about 6ish, then a slice of wholemeal toast for breakfast. I often don't eat breakfast, but did today.
Don't know about sudden hit of oestrogen? It's only a 50 mg patch and have worn them before without this ever happening.
Forcing myself to eat a sandwich now, though feel a butbsick and shaky. Thanks for replying x
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Hello GypsyRoseLee.
Sorry you've had this fright and sending hugs to you.
I seem to be plagued by mini panic attacks at the moment and they are no fun. I am using a 50 mcg patch and I wondered if the oestrogen is too high so I've begun snipping a corner off (I am post menopause and using Evorel Conti).
As you are still in peri I think it highly likely that your patch would be enough to cause a surge of oestrogen as a lot of the ladies here talk about the jitters resulting from oestrogen spikes.
Hopefully someone more knowledgeable will be along soon with suggestions but I wanted you to know that you are not alone and we all hate our hormones at times like this!
Wishing you well.
K.
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Thank you so much Kathleen.
It's either my patch or the Mirtrazapine, because the only other time I have experienced a feeling like this is when I tried Sertraline nearly 2 years ago. I only stuck with it for 4 weeks as my anxiety went through the roof on it and I had a horrible panic surge just like today.
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When I started on Citalopram I was fine for 5 days then that night I woke in the night with a panic attack which I had never had before in my life and it was scary. I had them, and the jitters quite badly for the next few days so much so that I rang and spoke to both the pharmacist and my GP surgery who advised me to ride it out if I could but if not to stop taking them and go in to see the duty doctor. I gave it until the weekend (this was Thursday). By the Saturday the panic and waking and vivid dreams were settling so I decided to give it till the Monday. By the Monday I was ok.
It was side effects until my body recognised and accepted the Citalopram. That was 7 weeks ago now and it is only this week that things feel more stable but I still get random jitters even now.
That is what happened to me. If you are scared and unsure about the AD please ring for reassurance from your GP or pharmacist as we need support on these treatments. Good luck.
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Awww GRL (hugs) I've no idea what could have caused this for you but just wanted to send you a hug! I too came over a bit funny today, I've still got this weird headache/dizziness but today I actually felt a bit wobbly, had to hold on to the worktop for a second :-\
Hubby was prescribed mirtrazapine last week (he's just managed to come off citalopram) he managed 3/4 days and said he felt awful and stopped them. You've managed longer than he did so you must be over the worse by now. Maybe a drop in blood sugar, coming down with something or just the lovely anxiety? >:(
For piece of mind why not give your GP a ring or even the pharmacy where you get your prescriptions? X
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Hi GRL
Sorry you've had a bad day. I felt like that after 9 days on Sertraline and 5 days on Citalopram so stopped taking them. Now nearly 8 weeks into Duloxetine and just about settling on to them. I hate to say this, but GP's and pharmacy's have warned me each time with AD's, that I'd feel worse before better. If you can push on to two weeks, you then may start to feel little better each day.
Just wanted to add, my GP prescribed 2 weeks of diazepam for the starting up of a new AD. You could maybe enquire about this.
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Aw sending hugs. Like others have said, I think the side effects of new AD's are worse at the beginning ... but I would ring the GP and get their opinion.
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Thank you so much everyone. You're all so good and supportive.
The attack eased off within a few minutes but God it was dreadful, and it happened at work which made it worse. I do not want to experience that again.
But this is how I went when I tried Sertraline nearly 2 years ago. I stuck with it for 4 weeks but it was hellish, just awful. I can't go through that again.
I am really scared to take another Mirtrazapine tonight. I haven't really enjoyed the nice sedated feeling thst others have described. I feel thick headed with it but also wired. I don't know whether to stop taking it and just make do with a 50mg patch until I see my consultant in 2 weeks. Or switch to a low dose of Amitriptyline as I still have some from when I took them for a few months last year.
I had to switch over to Amitriptyline from Sertraline, and was fine with it. Slept like a log and no anxiety attacks. I also took it for 12 months, years ago, when I had PND and was fine with it then.
I wonder if maybe I can't tolerate Mirtrazapine in the same way I couldn't tolerate Sertraline and Prozac?
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Hello GypsyRoseLee, I have just read your post & I have had the same problem with AD's (I have given up for the time being) & just get by with the occasional very low dose of diazapam). I cannot sleep whilst taking SSRI's & Mirtapazine gave me the same weird feelings. I know of one lady who takes Amitriptyline because she suffers from migraines & they definitely help her (she also sleeps well on them). Maybe it would be worth giving them another try? I would check first, though, that it is OK to switch from one to the other. Fluctuating hormones are contributing to my depression but I have realised, through having CBT, that there are other factors contributing to it & I am now working towards getting those factors changed (especially lack of confidence & hours of work). I really hope that you can find something that will suit you soon :bighug: xx
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Can't offer you any helpful advice GRL, just wanted to send you a :hug: and a :foryou:
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Hi GRL
From my very limited knowledge of AD's, I think Prozac and Sertraline are from the same class, ie SSRI's. Amitriptiline is a TCA and Mirtazapine is called as "other". I don't think it works on the same receptors as the SSRI's. My GP offered it to me when I had increased anxiety on Sertraline and Citalopram. It is supposed to be good for Anxiety and Sleep though, so fingers crossed, you'll get some benefit soon.
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Just want to send you a massive hug :hug:
Have only just caught up with this thread (been ill for a week with a -shock horror - non hormone related virus). Sounds like youre having a really horrible time, GRL. I really feel for you.
Every time I have taken ADs, regardless of whether they go on to work or not, I have had a day (perhaps just an hour) when I have had the weirdest, scariest anxiety surge- almost like I was detached from myself. Amitriptyline (for me) was the worst. My mum ended up calling NHS Direct as I had a pounding chest and felt like I wasn't in the same room as the rest of the family. I know what you're taking is different, but it seems possible that side effects could be similar?
I think you've had the double whammy as, on top of starting the ADs, you've had a massive drop in estrogen. All along you've shown your body 'likes' oestrogen - it seems to be the synthetic prog that has always caused the problems? With that in mind, going from several months with 3mg synthetic (more potent) oestrogen to a 50mcg patch, your body is likely to be complaining about it. I doubt the patch per se would give you these symptoms, especially as you have had patches before, but a sudden drop in estogen could well exacerbate things - certainly sudden chills, palps and anxiety are things I had in the early days, pre hrt.
Would love to be giving you an answer as I know you, like me, like to look for the logic in a situation; all I can say is that, realistically, any change in meds can potentially cause odd initial side effects. To be starting two new regimes at the same time , when true already sensitive to meds. will almost inevitably cause you some type of settling in issues.
Hoping things are calmer for tomorrow. In the meantime, I send you :drunk: :cupcake: and :bighug:
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Hi GRL,
just catching up with everything. Oh dear, poor you! I hate those hideous panics, I still get them now on occasion , but for different reasons to yourself. well it is difficult to pin point why you have had one, but as others have said AD's are notorious for giving awful side effects especially initially. And there could also be a number of other contributory factors too. Yes they work for some but by no means are they a panacea for all evils.
Perhaps look back on your own posts and see if there is a time when you felt consistently better and see if there is some sort of pattern? I try not to aim for utopia these days because I know that I am not going to get consistent health as I did when I was younger. I remember there were times when you didn't get the massive dips and the low moods were easier to cope with , even if it didn't seem so to yourself , I could tell by the tone of your posts.
I hope you are feeling better and I hope you will eventually find a regime that whilst maybe not perfect gives you some stability.
You are not alone, and don't be hard on yourself.
Peppermintyxx
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GRL,
Keep positive hun, those moments are hideous but tell yourself you got through it and coped. You sound like a doer like me, and hate not being able to explain things away. Peri is horrible, I'm having a rough time too but call mine a bully and tell it if that's the worst you got bring it on, I can do this. I've probably lost the plot ::) I'm not sure whether I'll ever find a suitable regime for me, just keep being glad I'm not as ill as last year. Hugs xxx
Jedigirl
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Thank you again to everyone. If I could buy you all a glass of wine I would.
Quick update. I sent through my mood diary for 2014/15 to check patterns. And whilst HRT free, then in HRT it's clear my anxiety/depression seem to manifest briefly midcyle in roughly days 10-15.
Then I seem to get a severe mood dip on either roughly days 22 to when my bleed starts, them symptoms disappear. Or I get a severe mood dip on the day my bleed starts, and it lasts several days.
On months where I had a longer 28 day cycle (like I used to have) I was virtually symptom free all month with only very mild symptoms.
This has helped clarify things for me.
I didn't take anymore Mirtrazapine last night. Just didn't dare. Instead just took 10mg of Amitriptyline. It took a long while to fall asleep, but I had such aot on my mind it's no surprise.
Woke this morning feeling drained but without that buzzy, in edge nastiness of these last few days on Mirtrazapine.
I intend asking my GP if I can stay on Amitriptyline for a while. And when I see my consultant I am going to ask for a higher dose of HRT with separate Utro. Either 75 or 100mg.
Thanks for bearing with me. I know I have been all over the place with this lately.
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My daughter used to have panic attacks in her late teens and early twenties. It was a combination of hormones, alcohol, caffeine, no sleep and general uni life. She wasn't particularly anxious so it seemed physical in her case. She couldn't stop them but when one was coming she was told to try and tie shoelaces or read a paragraph out loud or count backwards. I think a gulp of ice cold water also helped. Something to do with the bit of the brain required for these excercises prevented the panic attack from worsening and lasting so long.... Something to try perhaps ?
HTH
Pollie
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Oh your poor daughter. Yes I felt very tearful afterwards. Think it's the shock of it happening?
It might be worth mentioning to your daughter that ADs can be taken for just the second half of her cycle, and are equally as effective for extreme PMS as when taken constantly.
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even though I am aware of why panic attacks happen - flight/fight response - the physicality takes over :'(
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I think the overwhelming need to cry us your body's safety valve mechanism kicking in. When you cry I think you release endorphins into your system which calm you down a bit?
I did try Prozac, years ago for my severe PMS but it just made me worse and I had to stop taking it. But I think that's just because there's something in the newer SSRIs which I can't seem to tolerate very well at all.
I have readots if reviews from women who swear by ADs for their PMS.
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GRL,
sounds like you may have found a solution, although not perfect works the majority of the time, which is better than a slap in the face with a wet fish as it were. So there maybe light at the end of the tunnel. Glad you are feeling better.
Peppermintyxx
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As for the glass of wine - don't drink, so full fat Coke will do nicely :thankyou:
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Thanks PM. I well know I am my own very worst enemy. Needlessly panicking and rushing about wanting something sorted as of yesterday. I despair of myself. The irony is that professionally I am known for being very calm and level headed in a crisis.
I can't say as I feel good today, but at least I don't have that really nasty, jittery buzzing in my head and panicky tightness in my chest that I had whilst on Mirtrazapine. It 'felt' very chemical if that doesn't sound too silly?
Today I feel a bit low and drained, but it feels 'organic' like I just need a good night's sleep.
I spoke to my GP on the phone and they have agreed to give me a script for Amitriptyline again. I might not even take it between now and seeing my consultant but at least I know it's there.
I wish I hadn't forgotten how badly I reacted to Sertraline, as I know Mirtrazapine is cousin to it, so I should have guessed something like this might happen. I should have stuck with what I know works for me.
I shouldn't have stressed and panicked so much when I reacted badly to a build up of the synthetic progesterone in Gederal and gone clutching at straws. So typical of me.
I will be chatting to my consultant about a high dose of oestrogen and separate Utro.
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Hi GRL,
everything you say I can relate too. I panic too, in fact we all do at some point. I too am very level headed in a crisis, but when it is your health etc it is a different matter.
Yep the chemical feeling is typical too as that is what AD's do, alter your brain chemicals.
I have a stash of diazepam just in case also.
You can't help stressing and panicking when your hormones are up the shoot. Look at me when mine go astray - I am a wreck overnight. it is impossible to think straight like that.
The main thing is that you now know what works for you best I the long run. The thing is it may take a while to kick in and re adjust, so stick something on the fridge door which says code for ' Don't panic Mr Mannering !' to remind you that it is only temporary.
I forgot my HRT last night and boy did I notice it today .I took it as soon as I remembered this morning and I am due another at 7pm.
Consistency in dosage and timings is the key now , so you know where you are.
Have a lovely weekend and try to do something nice for yourself, a treat , anything just to pat yourself on the back for getting things underway again. Sometimes we need to treat ourselves with the kindness we would a dear friend.
I am going to have a good night's sleep too as I am in for a 3 hour drive tomorrow, so if you see a peri menopausal woman in a car singing to dance hits of the 80's that's me.HaHa.
Peppermintyxx
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You are always so lovely PM, and always write uplifting posts.
You're right when you say that once the panic sets in you simply cannot think objectively. Proof of this is my mood diary. I genuinely believed there had been little or no pattern to my moods/anxiety/depression. I genuinely believed I had battled with them for most of each month, and that they had surged at random.
But managing to objectively look back through the diary and make a note of the dates, then it's clear there is some sort of pattern. And that most months I was only 'bad' for maybe 9 days maximum, and some months I was virtually symptom free! Who'd believe it?
But I think because my lows/anxiety are so dreadful, they 'echo' in the back of my mind leading me to believe they last much longer than they actually do? But it's there in black and white, days and days of 'Fine, feeling normal today' etc.
The anxiety messes with your mind so much.
I will look out for you tomorrow x
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Bless you GRL,
Right, we now have a plan of action - I suggest you laminate the poster for the fridge!
Also keep us updated on the progress and hopefully Bob's your uncle! Or is it Fanny's your aunt? Or are Fanny's on another thread? Oh Matron!
Peppermintyxx
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:rofl: (that dates you ;) )
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Dates me indeed, hilarious - well I am on a menopause forum ;)
The old sayings are the best, in fact they are rather DOH and Sick ;D.
Have I just dropped 30 years in one post ? Which is good because I am no longer peri menopausal then. If only. ;)
;D ;D ;D
Have a good weekend. ( Better not mention the Disco, where are my flares ? )
Pepperminty xx
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Our discussion in my language evening class ran along these linestoo, as in - 'Oh mum, the party was wicked!' = mum going into panic mode because someone was really nasty at the party! Fast forward and few years and 'the party was sick' = mum worrying about who was sick and why and is it contagious.
The consensus was that we should try to reinstate 'far out' just to mess with the young 'uns heads ;D
How are you today GRL?
Galadriel x
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Feeling quite a bit better thank you Galadriel. Had quite a decent sleep last night. Just still have a 50mg patch on and haven't taken any more Amitriptyline yet, as still undecided yet.
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It's amazing how a good nights sleep can really help you feel better the following day. Good to know you are feeling fine today.
I'm on a high at the moment - just getting some Christmas things sorted - like the meat order for the butcher! Gotta make sure we eat well ;)
Galadriel x
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GRL, hope you get some peace in your life soon. Just started on AD's myself and hoping to get relief.
Sparkle - you are not alone, I am awaiting the 'acupressure' ring for DH, good reviews on amazon, I have bought my son-in-law and anti-snore pillow for Christmas to try give my daughter some peace too.
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I cannot function without a decent night's sleep. I feel shaky, tearful and agitated if I've not had enough sleep. Which just exacerbates my hormonal anxiety etc.
Have you tried ear plugs sparkle? I always wear them now. Or I just immediately de-camp to the spare room if DH's snoring wakes me up, otherwise I know I'll just lie there getting more and more irritated and wide awake.
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no the ring goes on the accupressure point on the little finger, that is a noose you are thinking of ;) I went back to the muffles earplugs from boots, they were better. I did have some great herbal sleepers too that I got on *bay but doubt I can take them now with the other meds, they were so good I slept through the damn snoring :o
just about to post and saw your question Sparkle, yes it does.. or at least it does for me.
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which earplugs? the boots or the others?
Yes, I lay and wait for the next damn snore.. which is usually just as I am about to nod off again. >:( I keep trying to get him to sleep in dog bed.
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::) I woke myself by snoring in the early hours :-\
Hopefully the anxiety surges are less!
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NOPE! he was deeply asleep ;D
I had anxiety earlier as we were going to a new place but I was OK once we arrived. Fortunately no awful surge!
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One night, I was so frustrated, I recorded his snoring on my phone and played it back, full volume, the next day. It didnt stop the snoring, but it has meant he is now far more sympathetic/embarrassed when I moan!
I have also tried altering my own mindset. Crazy though it sounds, I have almost learnt to like the sound of his snoring. I try to see it as something reassuring - 'I have a lovely partner and he's healthy and alive'. I then try to get in tune with the snores, breathing at his (much slower and more relaxed) pace along with him as he sleeps. On several occasions, I've then just nodded off!
Cant believe I have admitted this as it sounds crazy, but it has really helped. I no longer get the anger and the 'help, I will be so tired tomorrow!' feeling ::)
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I have often thought the same Briony - at least he is alive beside me :-*
Sparkle - that sounds as if your OH has sleep apnoea :-\ which should be assessed by a GP. DH had it, I would wake when he stopped breathing. It can be fatal and can certainly make people weary as it breaks the sleep pattern. Losing weight cured it, now that he's started doing it again in the early hours I've been giving him the glare when he eats 'stuff' >:(
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Scared to learn that we are correct? ::)
Mine gets nagged - I have told him that if he has a self obtained disease then I will not be sitting by his bed-side ;)
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I suspect apnea with my DH too, he was invincable until recently with his illness and is now prepared to listen to most things, he is going to bring this up with GP and is also trying to loose weight.
sorry to highjack your post GLR - how are feeling today?
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