Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => Personal Experiences => Topic started by: GypsyRoseLee on November 25, 2015, 03:57:46 PM
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Now I am trying an AD (Mirtrazapine) to help settle my peri symptoms I would be really interested to know how many others on here also take an AD to help alleviate their hormonal issues?
To be honest, the physical symptoms of peri menopause have pretty much passed me by. No hot flushes or bad headaches. No unwanted hairiness or vaginal problems at all.
The only physical sign I had that I'd started peri menopause was that my usually medium to heavy periods suddenly became very, very light and slightly closer together (though still pretty regular). Also I stopped having swollen, achey boobs every month too. I did suddenly start having insomnia, but I think that was linked to the anxiety?
For me, it has been the intermittant dreadful anxiety, low mood and mood swings which have wreaked my life these last 2 years.
I think HRT works wonders for the physical elements of peri menopause, but maybe not so effective for the anxiety and mood swings?
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I think that whatever the cause, depression and anxiety should be treated with appropriate medication :-\. Let us know how you get on!
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Hello GypsyRoseLee,
I have been taking Mirtrazapine for just over 3 weeks now as I have suffered from the most awful anxiety for 10 months or so. They have helped me a great deal I am a lot less anxious and happy, took about a week to work and had a few side effects being a bit dizzy on 1st day and sleepy in mornings for a few days,
Before I took these I was only sleeping 3 or 4 hrs a night and was a retching, shaking wreck that dreaded work and going out any where, I was in the GP several times a week convinced I had an awful illness.
Now just 3 weeks later I go to work easily, hardly no anxiety and I feel level and content. I can not take SSRI like Prozac etc as they made me so much worse so GP suggested Mirtrazapine.
Give them a go you might be as happy on them as I am.
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'less anxious and happy' ? less happy :-\
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CLKD I think crazydasie means less anxious........and "now" happy, maybe :-\
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Maybe ::)
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yes I am less anxious and... am NOW definitely happy, sorry, I worded it wrong.
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That's pretty much what my GP said CLKD. He said that however my anxiety and depression were being generated they needed treating like any other anxiety/depression. I do know that NICE guidelines state that ADs should be first choice for menopause symptoms. But I think my fluctuations are so extreme and I'm so sensitive to those fluctuations that HRT just couldn't cope.
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I hope I respond as well as you crazydaisy. I was a sobbing wreak over the weekend, very reluctant to even leave the house. Infused with dread and anxiety. I thought enough is enough.
Do you have other peri symptoms too?
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Also, like you SSRIs make me feel too wired and jittery. I need something more soothing. Has the drowsiness stopped now?
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Hi GypsyRoseLee,
Yes the drowsiness is much better it only lasted for about 3 days and even during the drowsiness I managed to get to work by 7am. It helps me sleep,I also have some vivid dreams but they are not horrible at all. It was quite a comfort to be drowsy after so much anxiety. It helped me almost immediately, as a good nights sleep was a great help.
I am also peri but take HRT ( been on it 2 yrs) so have no physical symptoms, such as flushing and sweats. HRT does nothing for my anxiety or mood.
I was so scared to take the Mirtrazapine, I am so glad I did, I needed something to help me and you do too...give them a go and let me know how you get on.
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Oh yes I remember now the first month I had very vivid dreams ,not bad ones I kinda looked forward to them ,like you it was just such a relief to have good sleep and just feel no anxiety.
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Dear Craizydaisy
So glad that the mirtazapine is working well for you. I have a prescription for it but have hung back. Are you on the 15mg dose? I have been scared to start on antidepressants but the menopausal anxiety can be so debilitating. I wish you a continuing calmness.
Meg
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It didnt/doesn't give me headache but as we know everyone is different ::)
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How are you today GRL ?
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Hi dazned, thanks for asking. Funnily enough, even though I felt really sleepy after taking the Mirtrazapine last night U found it really hard to fall to sleep and don't feel I slept that well. Woke very early but then dozed heavily.
Don't feel as groggy this morning as yesterday, but I do feel quite jittery and anxious this morning, whereas I didn't byesterdsy morning. Bit worried that it's not going to stop the anxiety and dreads now.
But my period arrived last night. It's been 5 days since I stopped taking the BCP so I suppose this is a withdrawal bleed? So maybe that isn't helping matters? Though I have worn a 50mg patch every day since stopping the BCP, but it hasn't been string enough to stop me having a bleed obviously.
My GP advised me to not wear any patches or take anything hormonal for next 3 weeks until I see my consultant. That way I can tell how I feel in just an AD with no hormonal support.
But I am frankly scared to not have any added oestrogen. So haven't followed his advice. Naughty I know.
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Hi GRL, I hope you are starting to feel better and totally sympathise with the anxiety issue, it is really debilitating.
I took oestrogen only HRT [had a hysterectomy years ago but kept ovaries] for six months but anxiety got very bad, then had panic attacks out of the blue. I stopped the HRT and felt better for a while but then panics came back before Xmas last year. I tried HRT again but got so stressed I finally gave in and took citalopram 10mg. I still took half an HRT daily.
I really, really wish the citalopram had worked for me, it stopped all hot flushes and all panic attacks but I felt fairly numb, extremely tired and suffered with bad digestive problems. Withdrawal was also a bit wobbly despite taking it very slowly.
Nine months later, still on HRT, I am now back into major anxiety and panic attack symptoms and am thinking about trying another AD. Or, giving up oestrogen as I have a suspicion that for me, it just adds to anxiety - or at least does nothing to deal with it. My reason for posting is that really - I notice you felt the same and wonder how many other people find it either does nothing for anxiety, or actually causes it?
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See how you go next couple of days ,maybe after the bleed stops you might be more settled. Maybe when the patch is due to be changed don't use a new one see how you go. You can always stick one on again if things are too bad but you might be surprised ;)
You would get a bleed wouldn't you as you withdraw from progesterone :-\
It would be an idea if you could see your specialist without hormones if you could manage as your gp said that way you would know what symptoms you are looking at dealing with. ;)
I strongly believe that hrt is brilliant at combating hot flushes and aches and to some extent VA but anxiety,panic attacks,insomnia,which are my main symptoms not so much unfortunately.
Hope you get some results soon.
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GRL if you are young for menopause the added oestrogen will help against lose of bone density and protect against cardiac disease etc. May be worth considering?
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Dear Craizydaisy
So glad that the mirtazapine is working well for you. I have a prescription for it but have hung back. Are you on the 15mg dose? I have been scared to start on antidepressants but the menopausal anxiety can be so debilitating. I wish you a continuing calmness.
Meg
Yes I take 15mg a night I do not feel the need to increase it, I saw my GP yesterday and he is happy to keep me on this low dose for a while, and if I need it, he will increase it to 30mg.
Please give it a go, I was so scared to take meds for my anxiety too, things that mess with brain chemistry really made me think hard if I wanted to take them.
I am glad I tried them, and I have had not had any bad side effects at all. Anxiety is awful and spoils so much of our lives.
I believe mirtazapine has a very low side effect profile, its gentler than SRRIs, I feel like myself, how I used to be before peri , I get up in the mornings without that dread and fear, I can sit and watch a film etc.
Try them and see how it goes x
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You are filling your body with lots of different types of medication and your GP is correct - so as Dazned suggests, don't take the next HRT 'dose' to see what is actually working. Your brain is an organ that requires support, we forget it because it's up there ::) …….. out of sight, out of mind until we begin to feel anxious or depressed.
Some medications can make a patient agitated but I believe that ladies here have found good benefit from what you are taking. Little steps!
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Chocolate, I had a bone scan in the summer and my bones are 'very good' no sign of anything untoward, thankfully.
It's a very, very tricky decision for me to carry on with HRT.
The facts are that nearly 3 years ago my periods definitely suddenly got much lighter and at the same time my PMS got much worse. So, typical peri indicators.
But at the same time, I had also been under enormous stress and uncertainty for the previous few years. Really quite bad. Then exactly 2 years ago we got some bad news which ramped up the stress and uncertainty even further. I don't think it a coincidence that within a couple of weeks of getting this bad news, the anxiety attacks arrived, and thecearly waking with feelings of dread etc.
Since then I seem to have fallen into a cyclical pattern of having good/bad weeks. The longest I ever go is 2.5 good weeks. Then all the anxiety/depression comes back.
My logical head tells me it MUST be my hormones causing this. But I can't shake the belief that I'm just suffering with
anxiety/depression because of all the stress I have been under for roughly 4 years. And that it comes and goes depending on what is happening in my life.
Bizarrely 90% of the things causing the extreme stress have now been resolved, and my life is much easier and calmer. But it hasn't made me feel any better.
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do you think it could be a combination of factors, there is a lot going on with your poor body and also your emotions. Probably not just one cause. On the other hand it can take one stressful event to kick start an anxiety disorder that can have lain dormant for years and I believe this is what triggered mine. Sort of the catalyst that cause my body to decide it can't deal with any more thrown at it.
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Post Traumatic Stress takes many forms ………. be kind to yourself GRL. Let the medication do the work ;-) :bighug:
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I guess I could be the victim of really shitty timing. Labouring under huge stress for a couple of years, only keeping my chin above water. Then BOOM my ovaries decide this is the ideal time to start shutting down too.
Can anyone confirm for me, for once and for all, that suddenly having much lighter and much shorter periods, and your boobs suddenly stopping swelling up and being painful every month = lower levels of oestrogen?
I asked my consultant but she never really answered me.
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I think HRT works wonders for the physical elements of peri menopause, but maybe not so effective for the anxiety and mood swings?
I'm not convinced. I think that it depends more on what your 'dominant (peri) symptom/s' are - they seem to be the one/s hardest to beat. For me, after a few months, the HRT helped my mood a fair bit, as did the BCP (more than an AD had) but the physical symptoms remained more problematic (especially the headaches and fuzziness/fatigue).
In the case of younger women (pre average meno age), we firstly need to replace the estrogen we're missing, but may also need to treat our dominant symptom in addition to this - so for some, an AD helps; with migraines, triptans or pain killers are required; others require help sleeping. I guess that's what makes it all so complex and hard to diagnose!
If I've learnt anything from this hormonal chaos, it's that no two people are similar and no two people respond to the same treatment in an identical way (as our Marevlon experiment proved!).
One thing I am beginning to think more about is the difference in efficiency between bio identical products and synthetic ones. I'm really shocked by how badly by body accepted synthetic progesterone, yet seemed to respond well to Utrogestan. I'm therefore wondering whether, in peri, the optimal treatment would be suppression of ovualtion (to avoid fluctuations) but achieved by a bio identical method? http://www.studd.co.uk/depression.php
B
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GRL you are like me,or how I used to be ,I wanted to know the how,why's,what etc now I just don't care,I just wanted it to stop ! ;)
I've always been a black and white type of person,it is or it isn't I've had to learn to adapt and accept that sometimes things are what they are,it was hard but much better off for changing my attitude.
As others have said it not really the question of whether it is hormonal at the minute you just need some respite from it all. It's not easy to keep being a human guinea pig :hug:
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I'm not convinced,but that's just me ,that Prof Stud is 5years old. Just my take tho.
I was much worse when my gyne trialled me on higher estrogen ,as you say we're all so different. ;)
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I'm not convinced,but that's just me ,that Prof Stud is 5years old. Just my take tho.
I was much worse when my gyne trialled me on higher estrogen ,as you say we're all so different. ;)
I know what you mean, Dazned. I seem to swing from one idea to another. :-\ Some see Studd's views as out dated, though interestingly, the PMS society suggests something similar:
http://www.pms.org.uk/assets/files/guidelinesfinal60210.pdf (See chart at end).
What I struggle to understand is why women on a higher dose of hrt often find it harder to tolerate, yet so many women take the pill - some into their late 40s - which is so much more potent in estrogen? That baffles me.
I think , for me, the crucial thing is that I need to suppress ovulation and so avoid the hormonal swings - my problem is finding the best way to do this. From what I can tell, taking under 100mcg patches, you're 'topping up' your own estrogen, so in peri, this can send your levels rocketing. Whereas once you go to 100mcg-200mcg, although it sounds more, it stops ovulation so your own levels are not in the equation?
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The Pill is designed for a different use i.e. to stop the risk of getting pregnant. Once hormone levels begin to fluctuate I think that progesterone is the 'baddie' that ladies are suddenly aware of. My periods got lighter, more intermittent, disappeared; came back, intermittent bleeds, then stopped :-*
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I am just sick to the back teeth of trying to second guess myself every day. I feel like a white mouse in a laboratory crawling through an endless maze. It drives me up the wall with frustration.
Take this Tuesday for example. Woke up feeling so low and jittery, verging on tears with the sheer misery of it all. That's when something snapped and I booked an.appointment with my GP that evening.
But..............just a couple of hours before I saw my GP my mood started to improve a bit. Saw GP. Got script for Mirtrazapine. Driving to collect script my mood improved a bit more. Took first tablet that night. Woke next morning feeling quite a bit better BUT my period had started in the night!
So, was my extreme low mood and anxiety on Tuesday due to my period (well, withdrawal bleed) being imminent? And have I felt better since yesterday morning because my bleed arrived OR because of starting to take the Mirtrazapine??? Right now, I feel so 'well' again that a little part of me thinks I don't need to take Mirtrazapine tonight FGS ::)
Aaaarrggghhhh. It drives me crazy.
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I agree with you Briony. Unfortunately I have never had a test though to see what my actual oestrogen levels are. Just told my FSH levels were 'within normal range'. But surely my oestrogen must have got much lower hence the much, much lighter periods (more like heavy spotting) and not getting the swollen, achy boobs anymore?
I will be fascinated to see how you get on with 100mg patches with separate Utro.
My GP gave me a slim hope that maybe, possibly my consultant could okay a full hysterectomy for me!!! I love the idea of having the whole bloody shebang whipped out forever, then just anointing myself with oestrogen gel every day. No second guessing. No fluctuations. No mystery. Bliss.
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GRL, I'm just the same. I swear I can have the mind and body of three different people within one day!
After my disastrous month on Marvelon, I followed doc's advice and took nothing for a week. By Monday, my stomach was 80% better but I got a banging headache (first week with no estrogen in a year). Realised I needed to take something. Suddenly panicked about patches (ie something new) as stomach still wasn't right, plus on my own this week. Decided to stick with what I know for time being, called doc and got a three month supply of Qlaira, ready to start the next day. Felt reassured about this, knowing I could try patches at a later date....
Except for some bizarre reason, the next day I felt more positive and so I decided to bite the bullet and put on a 100 mcg patch! Felt really great the next day - possibly as the desogestrel was fully out of my system - and had no side effects. Genuinely nothing. Two days later (today) the head ache is back and I have been ridiculously tired more much of the day. Tried to ignore it, but this evening, I've now started to think 'aghhhh'. Have not taken the progesterone yet (wanted to let stomach calm first) so it must be the estrogen. But why tired? To make it worse, I keep reading posts from people who feel awful on high dose patches, so it is almost as if I am anticipating issues. Goodness knows why I didn't try half a patch first. Sometimes there's no logic with me!!
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GRL do you not worry that you'll feel even worse with no hormones after a hysterectomy? I've had it offered to me by prof Studd and Annie Evans who both think it would be an option for me but it scares me so much :-\ I've read how women feel worse afterwards, I've said this to both studd and Annie and they've both said they've never come across it with any of their patients?
Even the thought of being knocked out for op scares me to death ???
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Oh God, Briony we are so similar. I think I lost the plot over the weekend thanks to a build up of the hormones in Gederal. Stopped taking it and put 75mg patch on instead on the Sunday. By Sunday night felt tonnes better. Woke Monday morning feeling great. But by Monday night could feel myself tipping over into anxiety/dread again. So added another 25mg patch (so now wearing 100mg). Woke up Tuesday feeling truly dreadful again so booked GP appointment that afternoon. Panicked about wearing 100mg so removed 50mg of patches that lunchtime. Mood started to improve late afternoon, just before GP appointment.
After appointment felt better and calmer. But not sure if this was because I now had a script for Mirtrazapine (and had a lot if faith it would help me, and quickly). Or because I was back down to just 50mg patch? Or because my withdrawal bleed had now started?
I JUST DON'T KNOW???
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No it doesn't worry me at all Chi Chi. I've had operations before and a GA doesn't bother me at all.
After a full hysterectomy, you would be prescribed estrogel to protect your heart and bones, so it's not like you are left high and dry with no hormonal support.
But by removing your own ovaries it makes it so much easier to have a stable mood by just applying oestrogen.
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In theory 😕
If I could be 100% that my anxiety and low mood were down to my hormones I'd have one tomorrow no hesitation! But I can't and I don't wanna put myself through all that to be no different :-\
I've been told AD's will help - they haven't and that HRT will but it hasn't :-\
It's just so bloody confusing and so hard t know what to do
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Chi Chi they can trial to see how you would feel post hysterectomy by giving you a drug which totally shuts down your ovaries for 6 months (not the BCP) so simulating a total hysterectomy.
They don't like to prescribe it for longer than 6 months because of potential bone loss.
But at least you would be able to experience what being post OP feels like before actually having it done.
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Annie Evans did say that would be an option for me, I presume you can't add in any Oestrogel? I guess you would then need to add progesterone also?
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Have you looked at the Hyster Sisters forum? It's really useful for an idea of how to manage hrt input post hysterectomy - but do remember, for every person on there having problems, there's probably hundreds feeling so well they don't need a forum's support, so it is a bit one sided.
I'm like you Chi Chi, I'd have too much of a niggling fear that 'it wasn't hormones after all!'. Totally illogical, but hey, that's my brain!
Please don't take this the wrong way, Chi Chi, but can you say that hrt 'doesn't work' for you, having only trialled some for a matter of weeks or less? I really mean this - not saying it to please you - it was several months before anything I've taken has helped. It's hard, but you need to distinguish between something that your system literally objects to (eg when you took Yaz and when I took Marvelon) and something just not making you noticeably better (I was like this with Q and 50 patches for several months, as well as when I took ADs).
I think our biggest problem is that since we have anxiety, this kicks in and we panic as soon as something doesn't work ( that's when I start to convince myself I actually have some crazy disease and not anything hormonal!!). It's like we are doubly penalised :'(
I really, really hope that your symptoms are at least tolerable til you see your consultant. Just a thought, have you thought of asking for something you could take on an as-required basis, to see you through the early months? I think it's CLKD who recommends this but can't remember the names!
Xxx
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I think half the trouble is when we've got to a place where we are so bad we quite naturally want to take/use something that will make us feel well overnight and it ain't going to happen that way unfortunately :-\
And the more things we try the more desperate you get then the shorter length of time we give it to work! Then it becomes a vicious cycle and our poor bodies don't know whether it's on foot or horseback !
Hence I think taking time out from it all to get level again and start a fresh might be beneficial for some maybe.
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It won't happen though Dazned. I was like that when depressed, I wanted a cure and I wanted it yesterday :-\ ……. same with anxiety, if I thought a dose of heroin would cure me I'd take it.
When well I don't tend to analyse. When I begin to get background anxiety etc. my mind begins to whittle away - until it becomes obsessive. Overthinking?
I try to take half a day at a time and review how I am feeling shortly before lunch time. Then when I'm OK after eating I move into the afternoon. It's the way I have coped for years …….
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I think half the trouble is when we've got to a place where we are so bad we quite naturally want to take/use something that will make us feel well overnight and it ain't going to happen that way unfortunately :-\
And the more things we try the more desperate you get then the shorter length of time we give it to work! Then it becomes a vicious cycle and our poor bodies don't know whether it's on foot or horseback !
Hence I think taking time out from it all to get level again and start a fresh might be beneficial for some maybe.
That definitely rings true for me! ::)
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I agree with everyone's comments, I can say hand on heart the only thing HRT has done for me is improve my libido and I think that's down to the Testim but even that now has gone. I still have daily headaches, aches and pains especially in my joints, I'm still dashing to the toilet day and night. I don't suffer with hot flushes as such but before all this I was always cold now I always seem to be hot! I have to take a cold compress bag to bed to put my feet on otherwise they irritate me and keep me awake, not to mention the restless legs! I still feel dizzy and heavy headed and I can't concentrate or remember things.
The Oestrogel must have done something though as my bone density scan showed an improvement.
I've been on the Oestrogel and Testim and 2 different kinds of progesterone (on and off) for over a year now. 3 months after starting I had a good couple of months and I saw a glimpse of how good I could feel but after my first lot of Utrogestan it all went downhill and hasn't really ever been as good, I've had days where my mood has been so good with no anxiety that it's been hard to imagine that I ever felt so bad but unfortunately they never last :-\ I suppose it shows that I CAN feel good I just wish I knew how to get there and stay there ::)
I also feel like I've put weight on since starting HRT :-\
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Have you put on weight or has the weight re-distributed? My apron dropped in April >:( but I haven't gained weight.
Like you, on good days I can't remember what it feels not to be …… and when I feel ill, the same >:( [if that makes any sense at all ::) ]
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I think you're spot on dazned. I am just like that. I think I wanted too long before trying hormonal help, and had just got too low and desperate. So you clutch at anything to help, then panic that it hasn't helped after just a few days. So you clutch at something else. And it's a downward spiral from there.
I do think that having 2-3 months of pre loading with oestrogen before adding any progesterone to the mix, would have benefitted me far more. Hopefully got me to a point where I felt stronger and more robust to deal with the side effects of progesterone.
Instead, I was already falling deeper and deeper down a dark hole, and clutching at HRT was like clutching at spiders webs for support.
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Have you put on weight or has the weight re-distributed? My apron dropped in April >:( but I haven't gained weight.
Like you, on good days I can't remember what it feels not to be …… and when I feel ill, the same >:( [if that makes any sense at all ::) ]
No I've put on everywhere! Boobs, tummy, hips, tops of legs, waist :-\
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Oh dear :sigh:
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Sorry to hear that Chi chi...
Apron CLKD :-\ ?????
All of you girls - I really feel for you and sorry I can't help, but I hope that you all manage to sort out the right treatment so that you feel positive and well for more of the time than not (normal pms aside...) :hug:
Hurdity x
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That's sweet of you Hurdity.
My biggest fear is that I'm going to be wrestling with hormonal anxiety and depression for years and years yet. I am still only 45, so potentially another 8-10 years yet. That thought makes me die inside. All the women in my maternal line seem to have early menopause. My Auntie was 38. One cousin was only 28, the other was 43. I suspect my Mum would have also had an early menopause lime her sister, because she started suffering with cyclical anxiety and depression in her late 30s ( just like me) but she had a surgical menopause at 42. So I don't know about her?
If I knew for certain that all this crap would be behind me in 2 or even.3 years time, I could cope with that. I would have a finishing line to aim for. But it's the not knowing that U find so frightening and soul destroying.
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GRL - when I was severely depressed and when the anxiety took over, I thought I would never feel well … that I would never get into town to shop again …… that I would never go on holiday. However, with a supportive GP and loving husband I am getting there. The thing is to not give up, to take time 'out' as necessary, to visit your GP sooner rather than later. Have little treats, i.e. a bubble bath or Very Good Book.
When at my worst I would head to town but not be able to get out of the car :'(. As I began to improve I went into stores to browse, not stopping long enough to queue for goods and eventually I was able to buy stuff. For years I did most of my main present shopping via catalogue, the 1st to arrive in Sept. got the Order. Even now I buy stuff through the year 'ready'. Paper and cards the same.
I never allow my fridge/freezer/pantry (there's posh ;D) to run down so I'm not backed into a corner. I shop when it's likely to be quieter. Coping strategy that has worked for me on most days.
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Very wise words CLKD, thank you.
The only other time I have been like this was when I had PND. Back then I had to pace myself. Never take on too much. Just live a much smaller, quieter life for a couple of years. Spent many afternoons lying on sofa, not asleep, just eyes shut and drifting (DC was at nursery). Think this really helped 'heal' my stressed out psyche.
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Similar hormonal upheaval can be causing your recent symptoms. Addressing the depression may well be the way to go, allowing you to see the wood for the trees.
How's your weekend so far?
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Hi what is AD please?
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:welcomemm:
AD = anti-depressant medication
AB = anti-biotic
DH - dear husband
DD = dear daughter
Browse round, make notes ;)
Oh - Hurdity: apron is the bit of belly below the belly button - firm until April when it suddenly dropped due to the muslce laxity ::)
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Yes, you're right. I recognise this type of anxiety and low mood as I felt just the same with PND. It's a peculiar panicky type of depression, very different to just feeling very fed and despondant. So I can only conclude that it's hormones again this time.
Not doing too bad tonight, thanks. I feel okay, but it's a very fragile type of 'okay' if that makes sense? Like it would take very little to tip me over into anxiety/panic again.
I honestly think that if I could escape to an old fashioned sanatorium for 3 months I would make a full recovery. Just zero stresses, nothing to cope with, no demands etc.
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I agree. Sometimes I want to walk away from it all and have a complete break; from other people who annoy me, from the worry surrounding buying gifts for people particularly at this time of year. Could you have a massage gift token for a present or is there a retreat locally that you could visit occasionally for some time out? Your Church may well have advice as to where to take some rest.
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GypsyRoseLee really hope that the AD help ease things for you. What a journey you are on x
I'm not sure that lighter periods always means low estrogen, I have been down the road of thinking which hormone is up or down myself and got to the point where, in general it is very hard to be sure. If you haven't had any hormone testing on a consistant basis I think the best way to look at things is that there is an imbalance. I really know that isn't easy to accept, because how the heck do you solve it! But, I really do think in reality, all hormones are going up and down etc and given that HRT didn't appear to sort the problem enitrely, I think you are dealing with other things at the same time.
I have and am being treated for emotional trauma symptoms, I wasn't really aware of this when my own perimenopause symptoms started, which in hindsight I really don't know if they were classic or that everything going on (perimenopause and trauma) was just sending EVERYTHING haywire. Thyroid, adrenal stress, cortisol levels, estrogen, progesterone, blood sugar levels etc. Like you, I have had to tackle things bit by bit, like piecing a puzzle together.
I DO feel a lot better than I did, I think it is a combination of my body adjusting to new hormone levels (wherever they might be) & accepting that is something I cannot entirely control and my treatment for the trauma related anxiety. I also have no idea how long things will go on, I am also 45 and also had several years of very high stress before all this.
I say, treat the primary symptom and it sounds like the mood, anxiety and depression are key for you and your current approach is addressing that - try and leave the rest to do as it will (for now) and see what the AD's do over the next few weeks.
Please keep the faith that this journey of unknowns will end, you will come out the other side and hopefully memories of it all will fade. x
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What a lovely post, thank you BrightLight.
I think I have just been the victim of bad timing. Several years of living under a lot of stress & uncertainty, followed by my body entering an early peri menopause.
Ironically the majority of my stressful issues have now been happily resolved and the future is looking much brighter and more peaceful. It's a damned shame that my peri menopause couldn't have waited a couple of bloody years.
I most likely would have been able to cope with it so much better, if it had arrived now, or ideally in 6-12 month's time so I would have been able to enjoy several months of stability and peaceful.
But no, it had to begin right at one of the most stressful times in my life.
I am willing to see how I respond to taking Mirtrazapine over the next 2.5 weeks until I see my consultant. I even removed my 50mg patch this morning to see how I go on totally hormone free (well you know what I mean) for the next 2.5 weeks.
I am tempted to just stay on Mirtrazapine for the next 6-8 months, with no HRT involved. That way I can see what is happening physically with my own cycle. At 45 I have lasted much longer, still having periods, than any other woman in my family. All my female relatives, on my Mum's side, were post menopause by their late 30s or early 40s. I am 45! I am really, really hoping that I will be post menopause soon, and all these horrific fluctuations will calm down, making it easier to treat them with HRT.
Even if (hopefully) Mirtrazapine effectively treats the anxiety/mood swings but my periods do dwindle and disappear in (hopefully) the next couple of years, I will still need HRT go protect my bones and heart.
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Stress is known to affect hormones ! Hopefully the AD you have been prescribed will ease symptoms so tha thou can see the wood for the trees :bighug:
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Hi Grl
Been reading yr thread with interest, i take a low dose anti d. have done for most of time since had pnd.. hate to think where i would be now in peri without it.. although increased it as was only taking every other day until a few months ago.. i can relate to everything you say , our anxiety is very very similar... i dont believe its depression as such, yes fluctuating hormones cause low mood, and this is what i think kicks the anxiety in... its like " oh no here we go again" and then its gets a grip... even just one day without anx gives me a massive lift and confidence boosts .. a few days on the run and im in a pit of despair.. i think the anti d will help with the anx and it turn lift mood.. then look at hrt.. just my opinion.. but like me you'll get there... and one day will will have at least 24hrs without thinking how were feeling... bliss :-) i cant bloody wait xx
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Thanks LW44. Like you, I had PND too and I very much doubt that's a coincidence, don't you? How I have felt these last two years is just how PND made me feel all those years ago (just grateful I don't have a baby to take care if this time).
It's a very peculiar, irrational and agitated type of anxiety. I can't bear to just sit and watch TV or look at a magazine. I have to be 'doing'. Then just as you say, you feel so low too because it's so awful feeling like that. And it just spirals around in your mind that you are ill again, and what if it doesn't go away this time.
Having said that I made a full recovery from PND. I stopped taking the ADs after about 3 years. Though I think it took about another year after that until I felt 100% myself again? But I had been fine and medication free for nearly 10 years before all this peri menopause marlarky started.
I think I probably need an AD to stabilise me fairly quickly (in weeks as opposed to the several months HRT can take) because I am just panicking myself into a worse state everytime the anxiety and low mood reappears.
How long has it been since you had PND?
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"what if it doesn't go away or what if I never feel well again" ……… I remember that so well :'(
BUT! I did improve. Give the ADs time to work ;)
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hi grl
I def think its connected.. been told as much by my consultant.. i have zero anxiety before i had children.. my first child i lost late in pregnancy and my problems started from there... had my next child who is now 15 :-) and suffered " classic" pnd..v. depressed but think stemmed from having her so soon after first child and not recovered from the grief.. was well for about 3 years.. then had my son who is 10 :-) that time it was a very anxious pnd.. panicing no bond... convinced id get phycosis.. started anti again.. well within 6 months... then completely fine until he was 5.. then anxious depression again.. this time caused by abusive controlling husband.. started with pa... then spirralled that i was "ill" again... awful.. started anti d again.. then left husband and home with children and a suitcase..set up home and met my soulmate :-) who i am due to marry next year ! again well for 5 years... then periods. started going haywire snd hot flushes and felt my mood dropping slightly at points and anx increasing..this went on for about 12 months.. but was managing it and mainly felt "well" till one day out of blue had pa , not full blown just overwhelming feelings.. started takinh anti d everyday.. still low dose and was confirmed peri... after numerous blood tests.. my god you asked how long i been on anti d and you got my life story lol.. still struggling..especially when period due.. but got an amazing fiance and two gorgeous kids and if i didnt have "this" a lovely simple life.. which i was i get so sad sometimes that i just want to cry and scream at "it" to sod off.. i also have a morbid fear of depression which feeds the anxiety... but like we have both said.. beat if before.. beat it again !! xx
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LW44 - ADs have improved over the years too ;)
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they certainly have... i was given seroxat the first time... they were awful and awful to come off..i dont have a problem taking them if they make me able to cope better, same with the hrt !
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This is such a useful thread, discussing the interplay between anxiety/depression and hormone imbalance - it's such a tricky one. I too feel my anxiety has increased peri symptoms, that treating the anxiety has helped, rather than do it the other way around.
GRL - interestingly, like you, my issues only surfaced AFTER the stressfull period had ended, I had a clear road ahead and wham! I guess for me it was a type of burn out. My sister suffered terrible PND around 4 years ago and actually ended up coming back from Australia with her baby for me to help her - she eventually took AD's and anxiety medication and it got her out of a tricky place. I think she took the AD's for under a year but has used the anxiety medication on and off ever since, although very very rarely now. She gets very anxious if she thinks it is all 'coming back' - if she has a poor nights sleep or an off day, she is very much better though.
There is a lot of misunderstanding around mental health I feel and couple that with perimenopause and I think it is hard to unpick it all and find a Dr that understands the interplay, it sounds as if you have a good GP and specialist for menopause. All very positive, I do hope you feel a sustained change soon x
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I find this thread very helpful as I have recently started medication for anxiety and depression. I didn't even realise I was suffering with depression until the medication started to work. I think mine has been bubbling away under the surface for the majority of my life and last year it reached a place where it broke free and I became aware of it. I think my ADs need tweaking as it is early days but I have already felt the difference. I wish I had faced it sooner and accepted help instead of trying to remain 'strong'.
I send my best wishes to you all :hug:
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Seroxat made me angry :cuss: so I had to stop it.