Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => Personal Experiences => Topic started by: GypsyRoseLee on November 24, 2015, 08:44:01 PM
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It is 2 years today since I first saw my GP. Out of the blue, anxiety, depression and feelings of dread kept overwhelming me. I thought was having a breakdown!
Since then I have tried eating cleaner. Tried cutting out sugars. Paid a fortune to a private naturopath.. Tried HRT. Tried the BCP.
But still the waves and days of anxiety, dreads and depression kept coming back. I have faught it with everything I have. But I think trying to get rid of these symptoms using HRT/the BCP is a bit like trying to pin the tail on the donkey.
I am so very, very sick to death of battling all these dark days and never knowing how I am going to feel from one day to the next. Yes, I still have good days, even good weeks, but the fear of waiting for the anxiety/dread is always there.
I have lost 2 years of my life to these symptoms. I have had enough. I am not prepared to lose even another month to them. My mood improved a lot for 24 hours yesterday, but today I have felt dreadful again. Enough.
I saw my GP today and explained how I had been feeling these last 2 weeks. I explained that I just wanted it to stop. Please. I mentioned Mirtazapine to him because I know ladies on here who take it for hormonal anxiety and depression. He was fine with me trying it.
I have danced around taking ADs, but I really have had enough. I just want my symptoms to go away and stay away.
I see my consultant in 3 weeks and he suggested I discuss with her whether to include any hormonal therapy in my regime.
I have had a horrifically stressful 3 years and I think it has taken its toll. It's just bad timing that peri arrived at the same time.
So there you go. I took my first Mirtrazapine an hour ago and feel swimmy headed and drowsy (to be expected in first 7-10 days). But I don't care. Anything is better than how I have felt these last 2 weeks (and all the many 'bad' weeks over the last 2 years.
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:bighug: fighting symptoms can be tiring. I understand and remember the deep fear of waking 'the same' each morning :'( but it did pass! Let the medication do it's work. It won't happen over-night and if you can cope with any medication side-effects you ought to notice a difference in about 10-14 days. If this particular med doesn't help, there are others ;)
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Thank you both so much.
I know I shouldn't at all, but I feel mad at myself for not sticking longer with different trials of hormone therapy. But I have just had enough of waiting and hoping, and then another week is lost.
If anyone has good reports about Mirtrazapine I would love to hear them.
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I really feel for you grl, I know exactly how you feel as I feel the same. You have given it your all so don't feel guilty! You have nothing to feel guilty for!
My mum has just recently started a low dose AD due to a rough time lately, she was my grandparents full time carer then we lost my grandad then my nan who had just been diagnosed with dementia was raped in her flat (my mum had got her moved from her old flat to next door to mum so she was closer) then my nan had to go into a residential home. As you can imagine it's very much taken its toll on all of the family but mum more so. She was so set against taking anything and just tried to muddle on through despite us all telling her she might benefit from it. It's been nearly 3 weeks now and she says she wished that she'd done it sooner. Anyway what I'm trying to say is we must do whatever to make us feel better, there shouldn't be any guilt or shame in that.
I really hope you start to see an improvement soon :) x
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Agree with everything everyone else has said here. I think you're amazing - you've tried everything, and put up with a hell of a lot of hormonal poo, whilst still always being there for forum members, managing a career, house ... and kids!
Don't feel even a sniff of guilt, GRL. You'd think nothing of taking an Anadin for a headache, or an anti histamine for hay fever. With the same logic, ADs are an obvious choice to get you on an even keel for when you see your consultant. At least then, you'll be able to logically plan your way forward. I took Prozac for a while when I first started hrt and think it definitely helped tide me over the settling in/jittery phase. :)
Really, really hope you get some well deserved relief - method is irrelevant - you just deserve quality of life xxxxx
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Hello Gypsy RoseLee
So sorry to hear about your continued struggles and that despite all your efforts to find a hormonal treatment you are still experiencing such low feelings.
Although I am thankful that I have never experienced such extreme feelings of low mood and depression, in your position I am sure I would consider what you are doing – so that I could function normally all the time and not just intermittently – especially with family responsibilities to consider.
Try them (the tablets) and see how you feel after riding through the negative side effects. Also as you say, make sure you also discuss and decide on a suitable hormonal treatment – (maybe now time to go back to the bio-identcial - body-identical- oestrogen and Utrogestan?) and when the worst of peri-menopause is over and your hormones have stopped surging to such extreme levels, perhaps you will then be able to phase out the ADs?
I do wish you well GRL and echo what the others have said - and Briony - quality of life is everything. We always say to women on here that this is most important and we should not have to suffer - and therefore why not try HRT and a hormonal solution first - but you have done this and it hasn't worked, so don't beat yourself up and concentrate on feeling better :)
:hug:
Hurdity xx
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Hi GRL,
Sometimes Crap is CRAP , no matter whether you put a bow on it ! You aren't throwing in the towel ! I can remember feeling so desperate that I would have drunk Rat's piss too if you remember!!
Sometimes we get to a point when we will and have tried everything and as nothing seems to work and it all seems hopeless and there appears to be no light at the end of the tunnel, we take one step forward and then appear to take 2 steps back. Clichés but true.
BUT, nothing no matter whether good or bad is constant. Life with all its little foibles is always changing and even though you don't see it now, you have made progress and you HAVE improved over the months. I know how you were all those initial first tentative posts ago and you have improved your health/ mood by leaps and bounds.
When you are at your lowest ebb feeling depressed , ill , low and desperate, it is impossible to think logically and boy do I know that!! I am impatient and enquiring too - why shouldn't we want results ? ( there is nothing wrong with wanting results quickly!!)
I have realised that I will not be as I was before the peri menopause and will have to accept that I get tired more easily and that I have had to make adjustments in my life that I really have had no choice but to do.
I can either accept this or keep on fighting it. I chose to accept it as I haven't got the energy to struggle any more. That doesn't mean I have given up - in fact quite the opposite - I have adjusted.
Being sad/desperate. ill and depressed call it what you will doesn't make you a bad person, it makes you a more rounded person if you let it. I'd rather be friends with someone who has experienced adversity and understands than someone who hasn't a clue.
What would you say to someone if they had posted your words? I bet you wouldn't be half as judgemental with them as you are with yourself?
Anyway = these are just a few rambling thoughts .
Thinking of you ,
Peppermintyxx
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Hello GypsyRoseLee.
I agree with everything the other ladies have said. I don't think you are throwing in the towel just trying everything possible to feel better and amen to that!
My heart goes out to you and sending hugs.
Take care and keep us updated.
K.
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You are a harsh critic of yourself. Don't feel guilty. I do the same and feel weak, a failure, if I can't 'fix' things for myself and for others as well. It is a personality trait of mine :(.
Five weeks ago I 'gave in' and started a low dose AD and felt I had let myself down but I can no longer do it on my own after a lifetime of difficulty. I wish I had been less stubborn and 'given in' sooner.
I wish you the very best of luck with your new treatment.
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You are not giving in at all. My heart goes out to you and hope that you will soon feel better. I strongly believe that many ladies are very sensitive to hormonal changes, because their chemical make up dictates it. You don't choose to be anxious or depressed, it is an illness, and anyway you can try to feel better is an option in my book.
Sending you a big hugx
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Oh never feel guilty GRL. I hope new meds help you. :hug:
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You're all so lovely, thank you do much. I find it hard to accept that I can't just fix this myself. I have a reputation as a 'fixer' who can sort anything.
Trying to be objective, I think I just waited too long and let myself get too low/anxious/desperate before embarking on hormonal therapy. Looking back, I wrestled with these symptoms for 15 months before seeking medical help and being referred to the menopause clinic.
I think my hormonal fluctuations had gone on too long and done too much damage, and as a result had left me feeling too battered and anxious and uncertain to respond well to hormonal therapy.
I think I need to reach a more stable level psychologically before trusting myself to hormone therapy. For the last year I do feel that trying to control my hormones has been like trying to pin the tail on the donkey because my fluctuations are extreme and I am so sensitive to those fluctuations.
My GP said yesterday that while I'm still fluctuating so much, to treat me effectively and reliably with hormone therapy would require taking my levels every single day, and adjust dosage accordingly on a daily basis. Which just isn't possible obviously.
I intend to stay on Mirtrazapine for the next 3 weeks until I see my consultant. Then discuss with her which hormonal route to take. I think it would be sensible to take this AD alongside bio identical HRT for day 6 months. That way the HRT would have chance to truly settle in properly. Hopefully by then I will have been at a consistently stable level psychologically for several months so if I then try to phase out the Mirtrazapine to see how HRT is working for me, I will be doing it from a stronger stand point? Does that make sense?
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Hi all, I am sat here feeling so ill and low at the moment, terrible tummy/back pain. I do take ADs but they don't seem to take it away. I have switched from patches to Tibilone as the patches made me bleed, but I think the Tibilone is a lower dose? I do feel am no so alone reading these posts as my friends don't seem to have the same problems.
Love to all x
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:hug: Charliegirl.
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(((hugs))) charliegirl :foryou:
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My first thought when I saw the title is were did you throw that towel and can I throw it too? I am reading this through floods of tears again as I feel so awful and like you I am willing to try anything on my next appointment as I dont want to feel like this anymore. I am so glad you have shared all you have with us, it has been so helpful and I truly hope you feel better soon.
Love to you too Charliegirl, I know how you are feeling x
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Hope everyone feeling yeuch finds helpful and sympathetic treatment.
I do sympathise as I am just starting to see a bit of the wood through all the trees since finally asking for help after realising I couldn't fix myself, silly moo!!
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I don't think anyone on this thread has thrown in the towel - you've just all made decisions that will help you feel better and then have the capacity to make other good decisions.
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It's truly awful isn't it sadlynda? How I have felt at times, over these last couple of years has shocked me. I never reised how truly low and dreadful I was capable of feeling.
Like everyone I have had difficult times in the past and genuinely thought I felt 'depressed'. But it was nothing like this. The only other time I have felt this dreadful is years ago when I had PND. So although, logically, I know it is my hormones causing misery this time too, that doesn't help me if hormone treatments can't 'cure' me.
The fact that only 3 weeks ago I was posting saying how great I felt on Gederal, so great that I felt 'cured' and didn't feel the need to come on here as much just shows how very, very up and down my hormones still are. Despite taking hormone treatment.
Despite having a 'good' day on Monday, by yesterday lunch I could feel all the dreadful anxiety rushing back and something in me just snapped, and I went to see my GP.
I do understand that my hormones are fluctuating and that I react to the fluctuations. Fine, okay. But trying to balance those fluctuations with hormone treatment is like trying to do a jigsaw blindfolded.
I know that taking ADs isn't going to 'cure' the cause of my symptoms. But ADs should at least stop me suffering the symptoms for the time being. And that's all I want right now.. Yesterday I had to pretend to have a headache because I felt too low and anxious to even share the same room as my own children! That is just totally awful and totally wrong. No one should have to feel like that.
Very early menopause has happened to all my closest female relatives (all were in early 40s). So all I can do is hope that I am post menopause in the next year or two, then it will be easier to balance my moods with hormone treatment maybe.
But for the next few months I will happily settle for just not feeling as dreadful as I did over the weekend and yesterday.
Are you currently taking an AD?
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GRL, I totally understand how you are feeling. I cant face anyone either at the moment.
Not on AD's or anything else yet but have appointment next week and will have just about anything she will give me to stop this.
I think the worst thing is how totally alone I feel with this feeling (aside from with a few others on here of course)
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Everything just seems too overwhelming doesn't it? Even really simple stuff like booking a hair appointment, or putting together a simple meal.
On my 'good' days and weeks I don't think twice about such things, and infact enjoy them. But on my 'bad' days I just can't bear the thought of 'having' to do anything.
How long have you felt like this sadlynda? Do you have other peri menopausal symptoms too?
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Huge hugs to all who needs one
I have started 2 weeks ago to take low dose ad I think it is helping I have seemed to cope a little better with everyday life, it is so hard when you can't explain how you feel and how frightening it is to people who don't understand because they are not experiencing it or to people who just don't care, thankfully lots of posts on here give me reassurance.
X
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I echo Angel45's comments about hugs to everyone who needs one. GRL - I understand exactly what you mean about simple things being overwhelming; some days it feels like trying to walk through treacle. I arrived home from work this afternoon & couldn't bring myself to do anything for over an hour. In the end, I walked the dog - because I HAD to but didn't enjoy it like I used to. It is as if everything is a major effort & I know that I need to make myself go swimming, look into how I can train for a new job, write out Christmas cards etc.. but on bad days, I just cannot bring myself to do it. Once again, :hug: everyone xxx
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When depressed I crawled out of bed, down the stairs and laid on the floor whilst my dog went into the garden. No energy to raise my head from the pillow. I thought I would never be well again but after a few false starts, my GP found an AD which helped. It isn't a cure but has enabled me. Add a betablocka at night and when necessary an emergency pill when anxiety floors me …….. <wave>
Take a half day at a time. Don't look too far ahead ;). If you need to sleep; sleep. If you need to have a deep bubble bath ……..
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Everything just seems too overwhelming doesn't it? Even really simple stuff like booking a hair appointment, or putting together a simple meal.
On my 'good' days and weeks I don't think twice about such things, and infact enjoy them. But on my 'bad' days I just can't bear the thought of 'having' to do anything.
How long have you felt like this sadlynda? Do you have other peri menopausal symptoms too?
Yes, get that too. I have had this for over 3 years off and on, just thought I was going nuts. Never cried so much in my life, sure I am just going to disappear into a pool of tears soon. Thank you to those offering such great help and advice, and :bighug: to fellow sufferers.
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I agree, however, when first told I need to take a maintenance dose AD for Life I fought against it. Until I realised that by taking it regularly DH and I have a Life again. If you were diabetic or reliant on other life-saving medication :-\ ……. give it
6-8 months and see how you feel!
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This is going to be a bit long but here goes GRL.......don't shoot the messenger as what I am about to suggest is not going to sit well with everyone on here. I have mentioned when posting with you in the past regarding my own experiences with birth control and trying several different formulations with all different types of progesterones. I believe that I fall into the same group as you and are very similar with all of our experiences. I too have been thrown for a loop with sudden onset mental disturbances with no past history of any of it. Any how......just wanted to let yo know what I find seems to have finally kicked in for me and that is only taking estrogen. I started off at 50 mcg estradot and then to 75 mcg estradot and have recently increased to 100mcg estradot. I have not taken any form of progesterone. I have been followed by a gynaecologist every 3 months. We had decided together to allow my body to slowly build up estrogen levels through my patches with the eventuality of adding in Prometrium. It was rough at the beginning and only tolerated the 50 mcg patch for 6 weeks before having increased to 75. After I increased to 75 about two weeks later I felt that it was not working and went to see my family doctor and decided to also try citalopram. I did not end up starting it as my mood had an upswing. Then about 12 weeks on 75 mcg patch everything seemed to sort of click in with only a few glitches here and there. I have now been on 75 for a total of 17 weeks and on Saturday will increase to 100 mcg. My gynaecologist informed me that on the 100 mcg patch it would be close to mimicking the amounts your body would normally make at our age. She suggested the use of the 100 patch for three months and then to start using the prometrium for 7 days each month 100 mg vaginally. Was told that my body should have built up a good amount and that due to the vaginal use of prometrium 100 mg is more than enough to properly shed the lining. I know that we do things a bit differently in Canada, but have you considered something similar? I really think that like me you are just not going to tolerate any form of progesterone once it starts building up in your system. I suppose to some it would seem like quite a long time on unopposed estrogen, but through it all I have always had a bleed every 21 to 30 days without using any progesterone. The lining is still being shed, although might not be quite enough. After three months of the 100 mcg I will be having a check to see how thick lining is. I really think we almost really just need like a loading dose of estrogen to almost sort of heel our bodies and then start introducing it to a cycle to normalize everything. I only wish you good luck with everything and hope you have success with your current treatment.
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I certainly won't shoot you Poppyflower, what you say makes a lot of sense to me.
I think I'm a woman who just needs a lot of oestrogen, and has always produced lots of her own. Always been very fertile and got pregnant within minutes of trying etc. Always suffered a lot with PMS and then PND, so obviously very sensitive to hormonal changes.
Even back when I was on separate HRT and Utrogestan, the last cycle when I didn't bother with Utrogestan I still had a decent withdrawal bleed.
I see my consultant in 2 weeks so it's something I will discuss with her.
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Forgot to ask Poppyflower, did the build up of progesterone for you cause anxiety and very low mood? I didn't react physically too much to the progesterone except for a few headaches. Although going into my second pack of Gederal I did get a strange itchy rash, mainly around my throat and shoulders but a few itchy patches on legs and arms too. So not sure if that was caused by a build up of progesterone?
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Thanks for sharing your experience Poppyflower - that is very helpful :)
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Yes, the build up of progesterone turned me into a depressed, anxiety ridden mess. It is horrible and completely not like myself. This current experiment has taken a while to kick in and there are still a few glitches along the way for a day here and there. Also when those happen just like you I am terrified that it will not go away, but so far, touch wood, the mental glitches have only lasted a few hours here and there. I also get physical symptoms from the progesterone, but it is the mental that are so much worse. I also feel like I am a person who probably always had higher levels of estrogen and at times even though things have improved a lot it seems like I do not have enough. Hopefully the increase to the 100 patch will do the trick. I hate perimenopause >:( >:( :steamed:
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Your post has given me such a lot to think about Poppyflower. Thank you so much. What you say makes such a lot of sense, particularly about needing several months of a loading dose of oestrogen to get your levels back up to a normal level before trying any progesterone.
I can only assume that my oestrogen levels had fallen quite low, hence much lighter, shorter periods and no more swollen, achy boobs every month?
But on my very first trial of HRT I was only given a 25mg patch. Plus I started HRT on day 12 of my cycle so I was told to put the patch on, then start the Utro just two days later! No wonder it didn't help and my symptoms were just as bad. After 5 weeks I was told to increase to 50mg but only noticed a very slight improvement over the next 3 months.
I just don't think my body had a chance to recover. Just too little oestrogen, being regularly opposed every month by 12 days of Utro.
I now intend staying on Mirtrazapine for next 2 weeks until I see my consultant. Then ask her if I can start to pre load with quite high oestrogen, but no Utro, over the next 3planths. Probably continue to take the Mirtrazapine until I have loaded with enough oestrogen, then maybe see how I feel?
Does this sound like a plan?
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I think everyone of us is so different. My experiences of this still didn't help me unfortunately. I was on 3 months 1 mg estrogen only with 12 days utrogeston at end still didn't feel good and when I tried 2mg estrogen I was worse ! As I say what works for one etc if only one size fit all life would be so simple but there's no simple way of balancing individuals hormone needs be it bio identical or otherwise. :(
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Are you keeping a journal GRL? Also a mood/food diary?
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GRL.....I think what you are doing is a great plan. Everyone has to do what they are comfortable with trying. Just like other posters have said we are all different, and will respond to things differently. I just wanted to let you know that my process was long and I felt quite a few times that it was not working as things would get better then worse and so on. It is a horrible, horrible thing, but we must not give up and we have to try not to be afraid to keep trying different things. You WILL find something that works for you. Also, I too have considered a hysterectomy....and it is something I may eventually do as the thought of no fluctuations is so appealing with no progesterone needed. Your decisions have to be the best just for yourself and eventually everything will be good again. Be strong and know that we are here to support each other!
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Stick with what you know :-\ until symptoms cause you to re-consider.
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It is 2 years today since I first saw my GP. Out of the blue, anxiety, depression and feelings of dread kept overwhelming me. I thought was having a breakdown!
Since then I have tried eating cleaner. Tried cutting out sugars. Paid a fortune to a private naturopath.. Tried HRT. Tried the BCP.
But still the waves and days of anxiety, dreads and depression kept coming back. I have faught it with everything I have. But I think trying to get rid of these symptoms using HRT/the BCP is a bit like trying to pin the tail on the donkey.
I am so very, very sick to death of battling all these dark days and never knowing how I am going to feel from one day to the next. Yes, I still have good days, even good weeks, but the fear of waiting for the anxiety/dread is always there.
I have lost 2 years of my life to these symptoms. I have had enough. I am not prepared to lose even another month to them. My mood improved a lot for 24 hours yesterday, but today I have felt dreadful again. Enough.
I saw my GP today and explained how I had been feeling these last 2 weeks. I explained that I just wanted it to stop. Please. I mentioned Mirtazapine to him because I know ladies on here who take it for hormonal anxiety and depression. He was fine with me trying it.
I have danced around taking ADs, but I really have had enough. I just want my symptoms to go away and stay away.
I see my consultant in 3 weeks and he suggested I discuss with her whether to include any hormonal therapy in my regime.
I have had a horrifically stressful 3 years and I think it has taken its toll. It's just bad timing that peri arrived at the same time.
So there you go. I took my first Mirtrazapine an hour ago and feel swimmy headed and drowsy (to be expected in first 7-10 days). But I don't care. Anything is better than how I have felt these last 2 weeks (and all the many 'bad' weeks over the last 2 years.
20 years after my last period at 40 I still get those feelings of utter dread
I was given along my Lexotan Beta Blocas they stop it dead i takes a few days but u wake up fear gone
U then take a few days weaning off them and it can be months before the dread comes back then u start again its worth asking xxxxxxxxx
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:thankyou: