Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: moonbeam121167 on November 16, 2015, 10:22:59 AM
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Morning all, just back from GP regarding the headaches, been struggling for years off and on and still nothing helping, so today she is trying me on Propranolol, have been back on Amitryptline back the side effects are horrible, they me me feel doppy in the mornings, increased appetite, the only good thing about them was they helped my sleep, can any of you lovely ladies have any views on these pills, also been having a sore boob off and on , so she wants me to reduce my HRT from 2x100mcg patch to just one 100mcg as she says it could be down to too much estrogen, so here goes nothing, I will give it a go, but was wondering how long shall I give it ;D ;D ;D ;D
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I tried them to stop headaches.
Had to be careful, if I stood up too quickly I got dizzy, nearly keeled over. Also I think there may have been some fluid retention, my fingers got podgy, it was difficult to get my wedding ring off. I stopped taking them, but I may have been a bit hasty. They didn't stop the headaches but did reduce them, so pain killers stopped the 3 day mega headaches.
BTW - You are not alone in not getting on with Amitriptyline. I couldn't cope with them either.
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I find that too high a dose of oestrogen gives me headaches. WE are all different and I think many women think that high doses will solve all the problems when I believe it can sometimes make things worse. I was using 2 pumps of oestrogel and still got some nasty headaches and now I'm using one pump per day I feel much better. Dg x
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I agree DG ,some think the higher dose they are on the better they will feel and that's not always the case. :-\
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Ladies thanks for your replies, she said she is no expert on HRT but it is a very high dose and say just try the lower dose for a month and see how this go, my headaches this last few days been better on the amitriptyline but its the dopey feeling in the morning and increased appetite are a worry to me but as for the Propanolol the side effects seem worse, I dont suffer from anxitey or migraines and unsure wether to use them or not , just really don't know what to do, may just give amitriptyline a while longer.
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I find propanolol just fine and I'm very sensitive to meds. I take a very small dose though,10mg, because anymore at the one time made me feel awful. I would suggest you start on a low dose and build up if needs be.
I take mine for anxiety in the morning and now find after being on them for a while I can take two in a day just fine. The only side effect I have is they give me cold feet....strange but there you go...I'm a bit strange ::)
I also found that too much oestrogen made me feel awful. I'm a great believer in symptom control with the smallest amount you can manage on. I'm on half a patch and feel ok on this.
Let us know how you get on.
Honeybun
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I take 40mg at night to stop anxiety surges.
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Hi moonbeam - sorry to hear about your continuing headaches. I agree that your dose of oestrogen is very high. The aim with HRT, so I read, is to try to average the amount of oestrogen you would get over a normal menstrual cycle - and certainly not the pre-ovulatory peak which is massive - I can't imagine what it would be like feeling like that all the time! Has your doc not measured your oestrogen levels also to check what they are? I gather this is sometimes done for women in your position to make sure you don't get too much. I'm not sure that suddenly reducing the dose by half is such a good idea - especially when you are on such a high dose. I wouldn't even just stop 50 mcg and I noticed even dropping my dose from 50 mcg to 37.5 mcg! Can you not ask your doc if you can reduce very gradually so as not to shock your system - otherwise you may get return of hot flushes very quickly?
I don't know anything about the prop... is this a beta blocker? Personally I wouldn't want to take medication like that for headaches if you don't have the symptoms that it is used for. A friend of mine in her 70's takes BBs for heart problems but as said below in other posts it lowers blood pressure. Has the doc not sorted out what is causing your headaches? If s/he has prescribed it for you then presumably give it a go - but I would still want to get my hormones right!
The other thing is I know I keep mentioning this but have you asked for a referral and thought about testosterone? I've said this many times - well you'll know if your is low due to libido..... I'm sure I said that when I went to see Annie Evans she said that increasing oestrogen doesn't necessarily get rid of hese hormonal headaches but she has found that these can reduce when women take testosterone. Forgive me if you are already taking it and I've forgotten!
Hurdity x
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Propanolol which is a beta blocker is used for anxiety as well as high blood pressure and also headaches so it's very worth while trying what your GP has prescribed.
Like everything it has a few side effects but if you start on a low dose hopefully you will see a difference.
Oestrogen too can have side effects such as nausea and headaches.
Not sure about testosterone but I have read that it can cause aggressive behaviour in some.....oh and a hairy chest ;D
Honeybun
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Ladies thanks for all your help, I will continue to reduce my estrogen, Hurdity, my GP only said to reduce by half and see how I go, how would you suggest I reduce please. As for the propranolol, I don't suffer anxiety just these awful headaches, they radiate from my neck and my poor head feels like it is being squeezed and is going to fall off, she thinks they could be tension headaches, certain smells make them worse, I get quite short tempered as well, don't really fancy taking them to be honest, all I want is to know what is causing them, my husband does say I get quite stressed at times thats why I think it could be tension, should I just continue with the Amitrypline and see if they help, maybe the side effects will ease after a while.
As for Testosterone , I don't think my libido is low really, it isn't as high as it was before my Op , when I last saw the consultant in the hospital he did mention it but that was that, don't know if I can go to a meno clinic again.
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Regardless of libido I have found testosterone makes me feel a million times better so much more energy and I have less side effects from the Utrageston. I am sensitive to progesterone. Also I find too little oestrogen gives me a headache. I am a huge gel fan :)
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……. and a deeper voice ::)
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Hi All
It's interesting that quite a few of us are on propranolal. I've been taking it for about three years now and at one time took 80g slow release. I have recently (this week) been given "permission" by Dr to try and reduce it. I take 40g in the morning. It was initially prescribed for panic attacks and anxiety but I don't feel it is doing anything any more. It stopped the palpitations I used to get but did nothing to stop the anxiety thoughts, so 'Brain' carried on with the health anxiety.
I am fed up with the frozen feet and hands. I work at the computer all day and have to wear fingerless mittens all the time, even in summer I get cold hands if it is even slightly chilly. Resting heart rate is 50, sometimes below. I am also concerned they are upsetting my digestive system. I take one with breakfast and then get churning stomach/ IBS all morning - don't get it at other times of the day, so have recently made possible connection with the meds. Its getting to the stage where I don't want to go out in the morning. Of course the HA doesn't help as it makes 'Brain' think the digestive problems are something very serious.
Just wondered if anyone else had experienced side effects or how long people have stayed on it?
thanks.
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Oh don't get me started on 'Brain' >:( ::)!
I take my Propranolol at night which eases early morning surges and doesn't cause problems in the morning ;). Maybe BettyBoo take your dose at night :-\ ? When I stopped taking it in May anxiety became worse and worse and I didn't associate them with needing the medication!
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I have to take the tiniest amount but I take it more often - a quarter of a tablet 3 or 4 times a day. Little and often suits me but it probably wouldn't be right for everyone. If I take more the effects last longer but it makes me feel unwell and my heart rate drops too low.
We each have to find what suits us best (smile)
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I am surprised at the comments about deep voices and hairy chests still being made about testosterone (even though they are intended to be humorous) - considering how many women take it and how much has been said about it. Men have oestrogen and progesterone too - we just have more oestrogen ( and progesterone when menstruating/pregnant) and they have more testosterone. Thoise views are very old-fashioned now and the reason many GPs I imagine were and probably still are reluctant to prescribe it - they need educating!! The NICE guidelines make provision for it to be prescribed off licence.
At physiological appropriate doses there should be no side effects whatsoever. OK replacing it externally isn't going to quite replicate our own endogenous testosterone but should help. Anyone who gets side effects - the dose is too high. I can now sing higher than I used to when younger :), and the only hairs are at/near the application site (small patch on inner thighs) where the concentration is higher and which I was warned about - a minor problem. Definitely not aggressive :). Had more feelings like that when my own proper hormones were circulating.
Moonbeam - propanolol aside if it were me I would reduce oestrogen slowly at the very most reducing by 25 mcg at a time for say a couple of weeks at least. You want to give your body time to adjust and I am surprised the GP suggested it - so going down to 175mcg and then to 150mcg etc. If you can't get to a menopause clinic then perhaps e-mail Dr Currie for £25 and ask her view (on the reduction) if you don't want to go against what your doc says - and if she says OK then maybe go ahead. If so do be prepared for a resumption of symptoms.
I realise this isn't about propanolol but you mentioned about the patch - and also not sure if anyone on here has taken it just for headaches but sounds like mainly for menopausal palpitations/anxiety - because it (prop) affects the heart.
Anyway hope you manage to sort something out and finally get rid of those dreadful headaches!
Hurdity x
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Hi Moonbeam
I follow your posts closely as I too am considering switching from a low dose BCP to 2 x 100mcg patches. My reasoning is that Qlaira didnt totally suppress ovulation, whereas I am reacting badly to the stronger, synthetic estrogens in a standard pill as they are so much more potent.
The 200mcg patches was initially recommended for ladies with severe PMS as it suppresses ovulation and keeps you 'steady'. In that sense, it does not function as hrt (ie as a 'top up'), but more like a BCP (except contraception isnt guaranteed). More recently, Nick Panay (and even Prof Studd) have questioned whether 100mcg can still suppress ovulation - but reduce the sorts of side effects you were having with the higher dose. Perhaps this was behind your GP's initial choice of 200mcg, assuming you're in peri menopause?
http://www.pms.org.uk/assets/files/guidelinesfinal60210.pdf
http://www.studd.co.uk/pdf/gally%20suppresion.pdf
Out of interest, do you still have regular periods? Which progesterone do you take? How often? (Apologies if you have already said - I get confused with who takes what!). B x
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Briony, I had a total hysterectomy at the end of 2012 and was on 2mg pill for about a year before the consultant told me my estrogen levels were so very low I needed to double my dose, my headaches were bad well before I was on 2x100mcg estradot so I really dont believe its that that is causing the headaches, I am reducing my dose as I am having a sore boob and the GP thinks it could be down to too high estrogen, she also said if my meno symptons return I can increase again so I will see how I go,
Hurdity I am still concerned about taking the Propranolol, think I will continue with amitrypline , I shall cut a little off a patch and use that along side a full one and then a week or so I cut one in half and so on and see how I get on, thanks for all your help
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Just to echo what Hurdity says about testosterone. Women naturally produce their own testosterone. So when levels start to fall during menopause you can take testosterone to just top up to where it used to be. Certainly it shouldn't ever cause a deep voice or a sudden beard!
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I'm going to see my GP on Thursday to ask for clonidine instead of propranolol.
I was really anxious yesterday, and I took a couple of clonidine and the anxiety melted away. What I was worrying about seemed smaller.
I am also weaning off my pregabalin, and getting bad withdrawal symptoms, as the med started reacting funny and causing me sweats and anxiety, low mood etc.
I will ask the doctor to swap it, because clonidine does have a good effect on my anxiety.
I also get high blood pressure from time to time, so the clonidine helps that too, but I will have to stop the propranolol.
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I find that too high a dose of oestrogen gives me headaches. WE are all different and I think many women think that high doses will solve all the problems when I believe it can sometimes make things worse. I was using 2 pumps of oestrogel and still got some nasty headaches and now I'm using one pump per day I feel much better.
I agree. I think a lot depends on age and where you are in terms of full menopause. Those in peri often benefit from a dose high enough to suppress ovulation, whereas if you're not ovulating and dont have sudden fluctuations, then a lower dose is likely to be more effective.
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Intermittent high blood pressure :-\ - buy a home monitoring machine and check BP every morning B4 breakfast. Make notes. That way you will know if it's high in reality or high by feeling …….
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Hi there, I have been on propranolol for 2 years for migraine, I take 80mg slow release & though it has never completely stopped my migraine attacks the severity of them has reduced. A year & a half ago my GP put me on a massive 160mg dose to try stop the frequency of the migraines but I just couldn't tolerate such a high dose so I went back to the GP and said I wanted to come completely off the propranolol so she told me to reduce them by taking one tablet every other day for 2 weeks....well the withdrawal symptoms were the worst thing I have ever experienced...racing heart, anxiety, sweats, agitated...it was just awful. I ended up phoning the surgery and asking if I could go back onto my lower dose of 80mg as I couldn't stand the way I was feeling. My GP was quite happy to put me back on it and I have been back on the 80mg slow release ever since. I'm too afraid to try and wean myself off them after the last experience and then of course I am also worried that the migraine may come back more severe. I have just began HRT almost a month ago so of course I don't want to mess around with the propranolol now or I won't know what side effects are from what!! My point is I do feel like I'm kinda stuck on them.I was offered Beta Blockers when I was in my late 30's for my migraine and I'm so pleased I refused to take them then. I think if I want to come off them I will have to reduce very very slowly over a longer period of time. Good luck with whatever you decide x
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Do they help Goosieloosie
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Do they help Goosieloosie
Yes I think they've definitely stopped the severity of the migraines, I never get really ill now (vomiting & feeling hungover for a couple of days afterwards) but then I also take Sumatriptan if I feel one coming on so i don't really know how well the propranolol are working!! I also found I was having really bad side effects to the Sumatriptan and I have to cut them in half now so usually they work but take much longer & on the odd occasion they don't I just take the other half a few hours later & that usually does the trick & knocks it off.
I'm having alot of headaches though lately, before I began the HRT aswell, I've actually just taken 2 paracetamol for a headache that has lingered all day :(.
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I always take pain relief immediately. Never suffered with migraines but do get nauseous if I don't act at once.
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Evening all, well didn't start the propranol, thought the side effects sounded horrible, I am only coping 'just' with the side effects of the Amitryptline, so I am going to continue with that for a while longer, give it a chance to work, I have also been reducing the HRT dose down from 2x100mcg patch to 1x100mcg and a half , so I am using 150mcg patch but what I have noticed is I am having terrible depression, I cry at anything, I feel real sad, tired just don't have any mojo, my poor even noticed it last night, any ideas please, just don't know what to do :'(
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moonbeam, take a look at my and GypsyLee's latest topics in the 'personal experience' section. We are both suffering the same type of symptoms. (as are many others)
http://www.menopausematters.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,30210.0.html
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Your GP has prescribed a medication which can ease symptoms ……… I know that it is difficult to face yet more possible side effects but that is what it is for :-\
Maybe try at a weekend so that you can rest/sleep off any symptoms?
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I take them for palpitations, they work for me too.
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CLKD, the problem is I work some very early mornings, also have a son in school, so rest and sleep will be a bit hard, also drive alot so taking that risk is not an option for me, this depression seems to be getting worse day by day, its like a fog which won't lift and I am going to give up on the Amitryptline as it seems that its only happened since I started taking it and reducing my HRT, so as from today I am stopping the Amitryptline and see what happens, thats for all your replys :)
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Hiya all, been on Propranolol now for a week, tried one 40g tab but it made me feel really werid so I cut it in half and have one half in the morning and one 1/2 at night but they not helping my headaches and I feel very woolly and very moody and a bit depressed, I have changed my HRT to the gel and that is going ok. Not sure what to do , just don't think these pills are helping, don't know what to do, I am going to wait till next week and then going to see the GP again, any advice plz x