Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: lesley998 on October 21, 2015, 06:35:12 PM
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Hello all,
I have not posted on the forums for a while, although I keep up with quite a bit.
I'm 54, and am only using Vagifem for physical menopausal symptoms. I was on equine HRT for about six months two years ago, but suffered with visual migraines and was advised to stop.
I think I am coping pretty well with menopause, and have come off lightly compared to what I see from other ladies. In the early days, I had awful pains with tendons and joints which was probably due to estrogenic changes. I have had my share of hot flushes and sweats, which seems to be cyclic...I can have weeks of feeling great with just minor sweating, then equally, have weeks of flushing and sweating which seems to last all day and wake me once or twice at night.
However, I am suffering at the moment with a very odd feelings on waking in the morning, and I wonder if anyone else identifies with this. I would not describe myself as 'depressed' or anxious, (I have have been on 20mg fluoxetine daily for about three years) and generally I am pretty upbeat, energetic, and up for most things. But I have been waking with awful feelings of doom, mostly when I sleepily start to focus on the day ahead and I just do not want to get up. I genuinely want to turn over and bury my head in the pillows and weep. It is almost like I am paralysed. It's not 'tiredness', I feel awake, It is more like a feeling that I cannot cope with life. I honestly have to psyche myself up to physically get out of bed and usually it takes a good half an hour. Once I am up, I start to feel slightly better, and usually by noon I am bustling about, planning my day and feel pretty good. By 9pm I would say I feel at my very best - energetic, happy...then go to bed and boom...next morning it all starts again.
I wonder if this is a cortisol/hormone thing? I would love to know if anyone else identifies.
Sweet Pea
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This began for me years before peri ……. I would wake in the early hours and have to get out of bed, get dressed - then I sat for hours …… now I wake each morning not wanting to wake up but once up and breakfast is done, I improve.
Early morning wakening is a sign of clinical depression. Depression can begin with hormonal upheaval. How's your diet in the evening?
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Hi Sweet Pea
This sounds like me most mornings I'm afraid, I'm so fed up with it I fear I'll be like it forever. I do think it is hormonal thing most of the time but how we remedy it I don't know.
I hope you feel better soon and I'm sorry I don't have any answers for you.
Shellb
xXx
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Hi sweet pea I agree with CLKD it sounds like clinical depression to me too. I had a bout of it (reactive depression)in my thirties when my mum died and it was exactly as you describe. What time of day do you take your fluoxetine maybe altering the time you take it may make a difference x
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Or maybe up the dosage for 2 weeks?
When depressed what the weather was doing made no difference :'( - it could be bright sunshine and I would be crawling around the house, deeply afraid :'(
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Sweet pea, sorry to hear you are having problems. You mentioned visual migraines while on HRT, was this HRT with both oestrogen and progesterone? I too have visual migraines when taking progesterone HRT - they are also called silent migraines or optical migraines and they consist of a shimmering, jagged image in both eyes that lasts for about 25 minutes before disappearing to the upper field of the eye. Mine are caused only by the use of synthetic progesterone, nothing else, and I was wondering if perhaps you could have been suffering from something similar while you were taking HRT.
Because of this problem, I switched to using just the oestrogen gel with occasional progesterone (Utrogestan) and that has helped because at least I have it under control. I am just about to start on a trial run of natural progesterone cream (Serinity) in the hope that I can get rid of the silent migraines altogether. I have never got to the bottom of it but there is something in artificial progesterone that causes problems for some people. I don't know about you but I never had migraines before my own progesterone levels fell and the artificial ones became dominant.
If your symptoms continue, you might want to consider a different type of HRT along those lines. It does sounds as though your morning depression could be hormone related because I had something similar in the past (particularly while taking Angeliq which was a continuous combined HRT) but it could also be because I am not a morning person, I'm not sure.
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:thankyou:
I used to be a morning person, now I prefer afternoons and evenings ::). Less commitments to face. ?
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Clinical depression....that's a big statement to make.
I wake every morning with anxiety and a churning stomach and sometimes I just want to stay where I am.....however I'm anything but clinically depressed.
Hormonal anxiety is more likely unless anything else is diagnosed by a GP.
Anxiety is always worse first thing.
It's a case of easing into the day. If necessary then set an alarm for earlier than you need to actually be up.
Try getting up and making a cuppa, take it back to bed and read a book or the news if you feel like it. Mindfulness and relaxation are also very good.
Beta blockers can be helpful if your GP thinks they are appropriate. I take a tiny dose each morning.
Honeybun
X
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Hello all,
I have not posted on the forums for a while, although I keep up with quite a bit.
I'm 54, and am only using Vagifem for physical menopausal symptoms. I was on equine HRT for about six months two years ago, but suffered with visual migraines and was advised to stop.
I think I am coping pretty well with menopause, and have come off lightly compared to what I see from other ladies. In the early days, I had awful pains with tendons and joints which was probably due to estrogenic changes. I have had my share of hot flushes and sweats, which seems to be cyclic...I can have weeks of feeling great with just minor sweating, then equally, have weeks of flushing and sweating which seems to last all day and wake me once or twice at night.
However, I am suffering at the moment with a very odd feelings on waking in the morning, and I wonder if anyone else identifies with this. I would not describe myself as 'depressed' or anxious, (I have have been on 20mg fluoxetine daily for about three years) and generally I am pretty upbeat, energetic, and up for most things. But I have been waking with awful feelings of doom, mostly when I sleepily start to focus on the day ahead and I just do not want to get up. I genuinely want to turn over and bury my head in the pillows and weep. It is almost like I am paralysed. It's not 'tiredness', I feel awake, It is more like a feeling that I cannot cope with life. I honestly have to psyche myself up to physically get out of bed and usually it takes a good half an hour. Once I am up, I start to feel slightly better, and usually by noon I am bustling about, planning my day and feel pretty good. By 9pm I would say I feel at my very best - energetic, happy...then go to bed and boom...next morning it all starts again.
I wonder if this is a cortisol/hormone thing? I would love to know if anyone else identifies.
Sweet Pea
Hi Sweat Pea
You described something, very well, that I also experience, I've had it for about six years, just waking up feeling doomed, not wanting to get up.
If I lie in bed too long after I have woke, I am have myself in tears, and it is at this time on the morning, that 'new worries' occur to me, things to do with my home, and paperwork etc, or whatever new worry that pops up, out of the blue.
HRT has helped to a certain degree with the morning dread, and its helped with the flushes, but I do still get that horrible morning feeling and am still pretty depressed and anxious.
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Then surely getting up and distracting yourself is a good idea. Lying and dwelling is never a good idea.
It's all about coping strategies. Don't just give in....put things in place that helps. Be it an early morning walk, turning on the TV, listening to the radio.
We have to take steps to help ourselves because no one else is going to do it for us.
Honeybun
X
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Or maybe up the dosage for 2 weeks?
When depressed what the weather was doing made no difference :'( - it could be bright sunshine and I would be crawling around the house, deeply afraid :'(
same here with me.
sometimes brighter days seemed worse
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yeah i agree HB, about lying in bed.
I've been getting up more soon after i wake up lately
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I wasn't able to stay in bed. Once awake however early the hour I had to get out ……..
Sweet Pea - have a chat with your GP, there is a chart which he can read to you which will give an idea as to the depth of depression. Think about your diet and when you eat, maybe a snack before bed will ease how you feel on waking. It is Trial and Error …...
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Sweat pea clearly said that she is Not depressed.
Why are we talking about depression here.
Honeybun
X
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As you are already on fluoxetine,an ADS, maybe your dosage might need tweaking a bit ;)
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I don't wake particularly early CLKD. I wake most mornings about 7.30 when my hubby gets up for work. I don't think I am depressed now. I was treated for depression and anxiety many years ago after the birth of my son, but it felt completely different from this. It reared its head again three years ago hence the fluoxetine. GP said it was hormonal ...related to pregnancy, peri menopause. I don't feel anxious or depressed during the day. I just have this awful feeling of dread on waking in the mornings which makes me feel leaden, and sometimes scared. The thought of dealing with normal every day life just terrifies me ..then an hour later or so, I am absolutely fine. It must be some sort of chemical imbalance surely...it's not my imagination, and I have no reason to feel so gloomy. I just wondered if it was known in meno.
Honeybun, great advice. Also, I really want to simply get out of bed...it doesn't feel like procrastinating, I almost feel paralysed. Even though I know I will feel much better when up and moving.
Sparkle...yes, I do have the most vivid dreams, regularly. I joke that every night it's like going to the pictures...never know what I am going to see!
Mary G, I was on Prempak C. Visual problems exactly as you describe, like a diamond kaleidoscope in my eyes.
Thanks for all the advice, will go back to GP I think and discuss. I don't really want to revisit HRT but maybe fluoxetine dosage needs to be looked at or something.
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Hi SP, I can identify with everything you've said and just wanted to relay my experience as it may be relevant - since (early-ish) meno hit c.9 years ago I've never been good in the mornings, however lately it's got much worse.
This was discussed at my recent review appointment at the meno clinic - as you well know, as we age estrogen levels continue to fall - although the body still continues to produce a certain amount of estrogen into 50s - then it can 'bottom out' and plummet further. I'm 53 and the doc feels in my case that natural 'background' estrogen levels have dropped still further. I am on an ultra low dose patch which has now been increased. I can't say I feel great (yet) but slightly better in the mornings.
What do I know, just a suggestion - it may be that your natural estrogen levels have dropped further and may be at the stage where they now need a top up. Low estrogen levels can be the cause of the early morning dreads / adrenaline / cortisol surges, often starting from 3am. Maybe you could request some estrogen blood tests from GP.
I get hideous migraine too (that came back when my periods stopped) - from trial and error, I now know mine are worse *without* the (low dose) patch.
I hope you find a way forward.
Night_Owl
x
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Thank you for the reassuring post Night Owl. 'The early morning dreads'. That's exactly it.
Will discuss with GP.
Thanks
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Sweet pea, that's definitely scintillating scotoma which was probably triggered by the progesterone part of the HRT.
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People can be clinically depressed without being aware of what depression feels like. Early morning wakening is a typical sign. I woke in deep fear every morning anytime after 3.30 a.m. :'(
Honeybun: "Early morning ………. " including depression :-\ : the title of the thread . ……. 7.30 isn't early. Early is anytime after 2.30 a.m. :-X
Dazned - that was my suggestion.
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Sweet pea, I hope you don't mind me asking but have you every had an eye migraine either before taking HRT or since coming off it? Did you ever take the birth control pill and if so, did you get it then? I am asking because I have been really baffled by it and wonder why I didn't get these migraines when I was on the pill and why it only started when my own progesterone levels dropped off and the artificial ones became dominant. I have asked numerous doctors about it but have never been able to get any clear answers. The only thing I do know is that in my case, the only cause is the use of all types of synthetic progesterone which includes the Mirena coil and Utrogestan (bio identical) - one doctor said that it is probably because 100mg of Utrogestan in one go is too high for me.
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Hi
Just to add.... I am 56 and the early morning dread along with anxiety has got worse recently for me. However I know every time I try to reduce my HRT it makes the mornings feel worse, I wake with butterflies in my stomach. Once I increase again the butterflies stop, therefore it must be estragon.
Wx
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Thanks.