Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => Personal Experiences => Topic started by: warwick01 on September 24, 2015, 09:56:02 AM
-
Morning Ladies,
I would appreciate your advice please?
Following a conversation with a medical practitioner who tells me a women age 56 should only be on a low dose patch such as Everal 25 and no higher than 50. I have been trying to move from Gel (4pumps) due to becoming sensitizes after 3 years of use.
Its my 3rd week on Everal 75 and still have some side effects such as dizziness weird head but trying to persevere. Also I find when the patch is due to be changed symptoms creep through.
Anyone else had similar issues ?
Wx
-
Hi this meno lark is the pits isn't it ! >:(
I believe it is advisable as we get older to reduce to a low maintenance level of hrt. I'm 56next month and have started to reduce my estrogen down with a view to stopping altogether before Christmas to see what if any symptoms Iam left with . Started reducing about 7 weeks ago and as of yet not noticed much difference but early days yet ;)
-
Hi warwick01
I think it is far too early to judge things - 3 weeks is not long enough for your body to adjust. I get dizziness if on too high a dose of oestrogen!!!
It is sensible to be on the lowest dose of oestrogen that will keep symptoms under control, however, I believe going too low would be counter production. You have been using a very high dose of oestrogen and 75 is still quite high, so trying to reduce slowly is good. What I do question is the theory that Oestrogel is no longer working for you??!!! I have used it for many years and still find it the best delivery for consistency - when I tried patches I felt dizzy and odd on the first day I applied it and, as you describe, it seemed to wear off toward the end before changing the patch. We are all different though and many women seem to do really well with patches. Your current symptoms may well be just about your body adjusting and this can take some months.
Are you trying to control flushes and night sweats or are your symptoms more to do with mood and anxiety? Having posted for some time on MM and read so many threads about women struggling with anxiety and low mood, it does seem to me that HRT can only do so much in relation to the anxiety/low mood and though some women believe a high dose of oestrogen will do the trick perhaps this isn't the best way to deal with this. If you are finding that the flushes and night sweats return then I'm sure a medium to highish dose is perhaps appropriate. I am 59 and on a low dose HRT and actually find my mood is better on a lower rather than a higher dose of oestrogen. Have you had a hyster, so just using oestrogen?
I have a colleague at work(aged 66) who was suffering badly with flushes, night sweats and awful anxiety - she tried so many options with HRT but is now doing well on a medium dose HRT with Citalopram (a SRRI) alongside - I think some women need both. DG x
-
Thanks for your advice Ladies.
DG - I was doing fine on the gel for 3 years. Then from October last year I started suffering acute anxiety, panic ect the gel still controlled the night sweats and flushes but I found I became more edgy, tense, agitated with accompanied dizziness. I too questioned if I was having too much gel but blood work for esrtrodol was 269 and GP thought that wasn't the case.
I take 7 day 2.5 northisterone every six weeks. I do know I feel worse if the patch falls off so I must need HRT.........
Wx
-
"I believe it is advisable as we get older to reduce to a low maintenance level of hrt."
There is no point in doing this if our symptoms come back.
The advise on lower doses is for "late" starters.
If using for an extended time then we need what we need to maintain symptoms and quality.
Just one question Warwick01, are you not on Conti patch yet?
Also you could start your new patch a day earlier if your feeling it "run out" :)
:-*
-
Hi Peegeetip
The rationale in my thinking is to settle on Everal oestrogen only then move onto conti but need to adjust because still getting side effects with patch. Hope it settles sooooon. To be honest it's just the dizziness not feeling as agitated like on the gel, but still early days.
Yes may be worth trying changing patch every 3 days????
Thanks for the advice Wx
-
Hi Warwick
hope that helps.
In terms of the dizziness. That could be caused by lots of things, not just the HRT.
It could be fluctuations in your blood pressure.
If your BP is lowish then a small fluctuation might give you that woozy feeling.
As I've mentioned before a lot of AD's can have this affect and reduce peoples BP without them realising it.
Even a bad head cold can have an effect on our ears and balance.
If your unsure on the BP front it might be an idea getting a small home BP testing machine.
When you feel woozy, see what your BP is reading.
Also have you been tested recently for anaemia? This can also leave you feeling dizzy and often people arent breathless with it. Having anaemia can also make your heart work harder and give you a sense that its racing faster than normal.
Hope that gives a few more things to maybe consider. Glad the patches are helping though.
Let us know if the earlier change starts to help too ;)
:-*
-
Actually don't see the point in changing patches every three days. Patches are designed to give a steady dose over the amount of days that they are stuck on. You don't get more on the first day and less on the second and so on.
All you are doing is using more patches to be honest.
That's why a lot of women find patches so good. It's the steadiness of the delivery with no highs and lows. If it worked like that we ....in theory... should have to put on a new patch every day.
Honeybun
X
-
From what I've read it takes about 12 hours after patch application to reach the highest level and then very gradually decreases over the course of the next few days. Similarly I seem to recall it takes 12 hours for levels to reach baseline following removal of patch (from memory...) so theoretically one should not notice a difference.
However it may well be that lower levels occur with time because patches come slightly unstuck, which will exacerbate the gradual decrease that occurs with time anyway. I try to remember to change mine every 3.5 days ie Mon even and Fri morn as this ensures they are changed at approx the same stage. I do notice even with Estradot though that the edges have slightly lifted so it might be worth trying every three days if this is happening with you - or at least 3.5 as I do?
I wouldn't be tempted to move to conti myself - there is no way that I would want to take norethisterone all the time! That may herald a whole new set of problems - so I stick to a bleed - however inconvenient and undesirable that may seem at 62!
Hurdity x
-
Just to clarify??? We are talking 1.5 extra patches over 30 day period in time ;D
-
Thank you so much (as always)
I am really trying to purseaver with the patches as I believe the slower delivery is what I need. It got to the stage with Oestrogel following the application of 2 pumps at around 8:00am by 11:00am I was like a wound up coil ready to snap due to tension......... settled late afternoon.
Fingers crossed the strange head feeling will improve, I know this is a side effect of the patch.
Wx
-
Maybe some are more sensitive to changes but I can leave a patch off for hours and see no difference at all. Or perhaps I'm not really paying enough attention because I don't tend to dwell but just try and get on with things.
However I do think that the patch delivers the most consistent dose of HRT over a given period.
I would hate to be having a bleed at 55 and as nature intended for me...,I'm not. My periods stopped at 49 so I'm mimicking what was meant to be the best way I can. The thought of bleeding into my 60s is not appealing at all.
Obviously we each have to do what we feel good with.
Oh and my GP questions me coming back early for a repeat prescription. If I'm far too early....and by that I mean a week I'm asked why that is.
Honeybun
X
-
If its runs out it runs out. Its going to be depleted and weaker near the end of the 3.5 days we should wear it (2 per week).
If Warwick feels on the last day that the patch is not working then its not working.
Over the course of the year we are going to have some that fall off due to adhesive issues or other mistakes. So we need more patches anyway than other solutions.
Sorry your doc is controlling you so much HB. I'd certainly tell mine to mind their own business and realise that patches, however good are not exactly the best for sticking :)
:D
-
I don't think telling my GP to mind her own business would work to be honest ;D
They just run a tight budget I think but I requested the patches years ago and they are the more expensive option. They never quibbled at all.
My Evorel never fall off, it's getting them off that's the issue so that excuse wouldn't work either.
Honeyb
x
-
Lets just see if this helps Warwick :)
:bang: :-*
-
Hi
Just to let you know I have bought Everal from Health Express on line. The site is legitimate and Dr Hillary Jones from GMB is involved (check out web site) once order is place you receive it 24 hours later. Cost about £35 for 3 month supply.
Wx
-
I don't need to buy online as I'm quite happy with what I do.
Is this service available without prescription.
Can't see how that works
Honeyb
X
-
Over the course of the year we are going to have some that fall off due to adhesive issues or other mistakes. So we need more patches anyway than other solutions.
Sorry your doc is controlling you so much HB. I'd certainly tell mine to mind their own business and realise that patches, however good are not exactly the best for sticking :)
Yes, there are occasions when we need extra patches. I've sometimes managed to wrinkle a patch when putting it on so I've replaced it as the hormone wouldn't be delivered evenly as intended. The only time patches fall off is if I've done something dim and applied them to moisturised or damp skin. Evorel patches stick extremely well well applied as instructed.
I wouldn't have thought telling your doc to mind their own business is sensible. It would seem a very good way to p--- them off and make them reluctant to prescribe any HRT at all.
Strangely enough, prescriptions and how they are used are the doctors business!
-
If you've gone thru a few more patches than normal then it is your business.
I think this is how a lot of us get into a problem with our doc's.
We take them on face value and believe they are right and let them push us against our needs or wishes.
The problem here is simple.
Warwick is feeling the patch is not so good nearer the end of its usage.
Warwick trying the patch a little earlier is simple and easy.
If this works and alleviates her problem then great :)
Having others contradict that is not helpful for Warwick.
How about we let Warwick's clarify if this helps first.
:-X
-
It's reasonable for a GP to question extra useage, that's part of the job surely.Patient care I think they call it.
I have never once been pushed into anything by my GP.
Warwick asked for opinions and that's what's been given, and the conversations have meandered a little as they often do.......and its not just me that has done this.
Who is it exactly is it that is contradicting Warwick......Sorry I really don't understand.
Honeyb
-
If someone is using just over 1 patch extra in a 30 day period?
are we really serious here? If a doc is asking about 1 extra patch then they really are missing the bigger picture. ??? :D
-
Thanks for all your advice.
I will try the 3.5 day as I was changing Sun morning Thurs morn. It may be that it's early days as I am still getting side effects. It will be the start of my 4th week on Sunday. I guess it takes time to build up in your system.
Wx
-
Er - So we are talking about regularly using 1.5 patches extra regularly in a 30 day period?
Warwick had said "I am really trying to purseaver with the patches as I believe the slower delivery is what I need"
How does boosting the number of patches used help with that? It's increasing the total amount of hormone used.
If you've gone thru a few more patches than normal then it is your business.
If the "normal" amount used has changed then the patches are not being used as prescribed. Then, it is the business of the prescribing doctor. If the prescribed amount isn't correct speak to the doctor to agree a way forward, this might be getting a new prescription or doctor.
Warwick - Please speak to your doctor as to the best thing to do. It might be worth printing off some of the comments here to discuss further.
-
I agree Limpy, the advice to change patches more often really didn't make sense to me either.
Best to speak to your GP anyway. The majority are surpringly helpful and keen to help us find solutions to our problems.
Really not sure buying then online and increasing your dose is the best way forward.
Let us know how you get on.
Honeybun
X
-
"Really not sure buying then online and increasing your dose is the best way forward."
"It's increasing the total amount of hormone used."
:D
sorry - you lost me - really...
how does swapping your patch earlier increase your dose???
or buying the patches online for that matter have anything to do with what Warwick needs?
I think you've both let other views cloud your logic here ladies.
The patches are designed to give you a slow even release over a 2 patches per 7day(week) period.
We are talking about having 2 patches per 6 day period only!!!
The same amount of hormones would be taken in per day either way if patches were working to optimum.
But it looks like that isnt the case for Warwick.
So if the patches for some ladies lose their power after 3 days and that is noticed? - then why would taking a fresh one increase anything in terms of the designed slow release these patches provide.
The only way Warwick would increase the amount of hormones she got day to day would be to -----
Put the new one and the failing old one on "together" ;D
Something none of us would advise and I can't see Warwick doing ???
:crutch: :stretcher: :clapping:
-
Given it's such a trivial change "We are talking about having 2 patches per 6 day period only!!!" perhaps Warwick's GP would amend her prescription accordingly.
-
Talk about digging a hole...
Perhaps you can just leave Warwick to try things out.
By the sounds of it she's pretty much got the supply side sorted.
-
Hi
Just to confirm I would only use 1 patch at a time. I have however bought on line in the event I lose one of the patches, which I have on holiday last week. It's easier than having to explain to my GP. To be honest I get soooo fed up with going explaining what I need :(
Wx
-
Exactly :) totally agree with you Warwick.
Hope you feel better soon.
:-*
-
Perhaps you can do the same Peegeetip ....you seem to be repeating yourself. And I can't see any holes being dug by anyone.
Honeybun
-
Morning Ladies,
Mmm start of 4th week tomorrow on Everal 75 that means changing my patch. Woke up this morning really anxious, jelly legs and feeling really nausea. Things just settling now. Do you think this is side effects of the patch or does it mean the patch is starting to run out before tomorrow??
Also - is it a case my body needs time to adjust to Everal?? after 3 years on the Gel??
The sun is shining here in Manchester how bout where you are? Like many others I long to feel better ;)
Wx
-
Warwick - It could take time for you to settle down to the patches, different method of delivery and different hormone. I think 3 months is the time quoted that it can take for somebody to settle with a new HRT regime.
You mention that you are feeling more settled, that's good.
When you say "Do you think this is side effects of the patch or does it mean the patch is starting to run out before tomorrow??" How long has your current patch been on for?
I've read on here that patches are designed to be used for 3.5 days, if it's been on that long perhaps it is running low, don't know. :-\
The Evorel instructions for use just mention 3 or 4 day gaps, so presumably it's not that precise and will even itself out over the month, don't know
-
A lot of women have the side effects that you describe when on too much oestrogen , I know I do.
Could it be that you are absorbing the hormones from the patches far better than your previous delivery method and therefore don't need quite as much.
Just a thought.
Honeybun
X
-
Thanks for your replies.
I am determined to persevere (as hard as it is) Felt ok from mid afternoon yesterday, really good evening with my DH.
Was awake most of the night and bam........ anxiety again all morning. It feels almost impossible to go out before midday. always feel better in the afternoon and evening. One thing I am noticing is the off balance issue and dizziness seems a little better :)
Fingers crossed X
-
Sorry you're still not feeling good, when did you last change your patch?
If you've recently changed it, it might be that it's too much oestrogen for you. If that isn't the case, then perhaps you need more hormone.
Whatever, perhaps speak to somebody who can advise and prescribe, GP, Meno clinic, Consultant.........
-
Hi Limpy,
Thanks for your reply.
I changed my patch yesterday morning. Prior to changing and every morning I have woke (if I manage to sleep) very jittery anxious nausea. Every day when I go out feel anxious agitated esp in shops.
Not sure how Everal 75 compares to 4 pumps of gel I was on before. Also as anxiety and dizziness have been the main problem I m not sure if its too much Estrogion or not enough. I think I must be post meno as Im 57 in January.
Wx
-
I believe anxiety is the hardest thing for hrt to overcome ,well it did nothing for mine anyway. It can't possibly combat all our symptoms. Have you explored other avenue to help,mindful meditation, CBT that sort of thing ? I have to use ADS alongside my hrt like others on here.
-
Warwick, On the plus side you felt ok from mid afternoon yesterday going on to have a good evening.
But, the lack of sleep sounds really hard to deal with and that seems to be continuing. The things Dazned are suggesting sound to be worth trying. If they don't help, it might be worth getting back to the Dr who prescribed the Evorel to discuss the best way forward?