Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: pepperminty on August 23, 2015, 08:36:47 AM
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Hi Ladies,
I have increased my dose of oestrogen slowly to femeston 2/10 by upping initially by half tablets and now onto the full 2/10.
I am worse than ever and more exhausted. I look dreadful, feel more achy etc.
Has anyone had this effect by increasing their dose of oestrogen? - MORE tiredness.
I can barely function so far this morning .
So does more oestrogen sometimes mean worse symptoms?
I hope this all makes sense as I am having to really concentrate as feel so crap.
Pepperminty xx
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I'm sorry I cant help, just wanted to send hugs.
I don't have hrt and don't understand really about which hormone is good or bad as it slips in and out of our bodies. I wish I did. In fact I dont understand anything except it all bloody awful.
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Thanks Sarai,
much appreciated x
Yes it is all bloody awful.
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I recently asked the same question on here - the answer was very much 'no' - it's progesterone that will cause fatigue. (See Hurdity's reply) x
http://www.menopausematters.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,28295.msg444290.html#msg444290
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Thanks Briony,
I have just smashed a china bowl - I know I am poorly because I become very clumsy. I have also attempted to hoover and burst into tears. My hands are so painful my legs and arms are like lead and I could just lie down and never get up again.
But the thing is I am not depressed, if that makes sense. There is a difference as I know it is the hormones. My skin is flaking and dry - overnight.
Pepperminty xxx
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To me, that sounds like fluctuating levels - it's just how I am before I come on (when levels are dropping suddenly) but also how I can be when the progesterone dose in QLaira goes up part way through the month. It's hideous and I always feel so pathetic when I say 'I am tired' - but it's just such an overwhelming tiredness isnt' it? Are you now on the progesterone phase of the Femeston?
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pepperminty - what you are describing sounds more like you suffering with or have had a virus and now have some post viral fatigue. I had a virus about 3 weeks ago when I felt exactly the same - everything hurt and I just wanted to sleep - I was completely shattered. We often blame our hormones and/or HRT for how we feel when there are other factors at play. If you were on the progesterone phase then that could be contributing to how you feel.
You do sound very stressed and anxious and perhaps you are hoping HRT will solve all your problems. Are you sleeping well? Are you over doing it generally? Are you Vitamin D deficient? My skin is not nearly so flaky and dry with HRT - Dry flaky skin could be helped with some Omega 3.
The recent humid weather has been a breeding ground for viruses around where we are and everyone is tired and tetchy because they can't sleep in this heat.
Do look at your lifestyle and see if you can build some more relaxation into your life. I've had to do this, I now say "no" to many things and I feel better for it. Is anyone going to to die if the hoovering isn't done?
The meno is a difficult time for many of us and whether you use HRT or not you do need to reassess what is important. Why not lie on the sofa with a magazine for an hour with a nice cup of tea? It is Sunday afternoon after all. DG x
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Is anyone going to to die if the hoovering isn't done?
My new motto! x
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Hi girls,
I am not stressed and enjoy hovering, it only took 10mins to do. I take vitamins, garlic and Omega 3 regularly and am taking it very easy as not working at the moment. I am still on the oestrogen phase and will start progesterone tomorrow.
It is definitely my hormones, even when I am happy I could cry.
Funny last night for the first time in ages I was effected by the heat and felt all hot flushy. This had gone previously, and even when it was hot I had no problems . So therefore it all points towards hormones.
I am very happy and relaxed, just completely hormonal.
In between pottering I have been reading and relaxing. I have been eating well and going to bed at 10pm, and sleeping well , yet I am still feeling awful.
I am making a GP appointment tomorrow , so hopefully I will be able to see him this week sometime . I think I am going to try the pill.
Peppermintyxx
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hi pepperminty
I know exactly what u mean.. perfectly content with life..but emotions/hormones everywhere. when i started my oestrogen hrt about 2 months ago.. i was wiped out..slept like a log..so deep but felt like needed hrs more.. i was sleeping 10 hrs a night ! with no waking up.. felt groggy..seems to be evening out a bit now..x
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Hi LW44,
Thanks, it's a mare. I am actually sleeping longer and deeper , but feel 10 times worse. I felt great a month ago! :-\
3 weeks of a higher dose and I am dreadful.
I am glad you are evening out as it were. Lets hope it continues!
Yep I have a lovely new man, I am taking it easy and still my hormones are hay wire.
Deep joy.
peppermintyxx
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aww.. i know.. my man not that new - 3 years.. but he's never seen me like this... the woman he knows left her abusive husband with 2 children and a suitcase... set up home from nothing ! not this crying anxious woman ! lovely news a new man :-) a much welcome distraction from all the meno choas.. ;-) ps and he still wants to marry me next year ! x
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Hi LW44,
He sounds like a keeper, so that's brilliant. He probably knows how strong and capable you are ! I am very lucky as mine is a sweetie too.
Pepperminty xx
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Hi LW44,
Thanks, it's a mare. I am actually sleeping longer and deeper , but feel 10 times worse. I felt great a month ago! :-\
3 weeks of a higher dose and I am dreadful.
I am glad you are evening out as it were. Lets hope it continues!
Yep I have a lovely new man, I am taking it easy and still my hormones are hay wire.
Deep joy.
peppermintyxx
Just been reading on another thread about how long it takes for HRT to work post hysterectomy. The poster, who was in her 30s, was advised it could take months. The same person had very prominent fluctuations before her op meaning she could tell if estrogen was too high (jittery, too much energy, snappy, tingling boobs) or too low (fatigued, low mood, foggy head). It was interesting to read this as I still get confused about the difference between the two xx
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hi briony.. out of curiosty..why did she have a hysterectomy ? x
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Severe PMS I think? Would send the link but my iPad gone nuts and won't let me cut and paste tonight (think it may need HRT too!) x
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Hi all,
I feel slightly better this morning thank goodness. Still tired, achy, weepy, zombie eyes, foggy brain and itchy skin, but about 10% better.
All could change in a nano second though!
I cannot make up my mind at present whether to jump ship on HRT in favour of the pill and see if that works better, or to stick with the 2/10 for another couple of weeks to see if it kicks in. It should kick in I would have thought as I have gradually upped my dose and it has been 3 weeks since I did. I know that is not long in HRT terms , but I have been on half a tablet more for 3 months prior to that.
I just don't know what to do for the best as I have goldfish brain .
Hope you get on ok today Briony .
Peppermintyxx
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Just an update , now feel nauseous and have come up with tiny white heads round the jaw line , also have upset tummy feeling , deep joy.
Pepperminty xx
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pepperminty - I can't remember if you are still peri meno but if you are, then it could be the increased dose that is making things worse. When I was peri in my late 30s, a high dose of oestrogen certainly made me feel unwell - sweaty, agitated etc. In hindsight I now realise it was the fluctuating hormones with extra peeks and troughs that were the problem. I then went to a private meno clinic in London - I think the only one of it's kind at the time (this was over 20 years ago) and they put me on just one pump of Oestrogel per day with separate progesterone for 10 days each calendar month. This seemed to stabilise how I felt and then I increased to 2 pumps per day when I was about 43 and obviously well into post meno. I still had problems with the progesterone phase but I think I switched to Dydrogesterone which I found a bit better. These days there is Provera or Utrogestan which can suit some women better.
Maybe ask if you could try Oestrogel with Provera (MPA) - look under the TREATMENTS section. DG x
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Oh dear. Hope you feel brighter very soon. Are you still seeing your GP today?
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Hi ladies,
thankyou. I have had a god awful day. I have felt panicky ( first time in months), teary, sick , teary, manic but exhausted, blurred vision, despair.I had to take a diazepam to get through the morning.
I am not taking another 2/10 , I will go back to 1/10 tonight. I have a GP appointment on Thursday morning which is the earliest they could see me. I am going to tell the doctor to give me the pill, I am so desperate, I don't know what I would do if she said no. I feel that bad.
My head is in a vice .
Peppermintyxx
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thanks briony :-)
pepperminty - i know how you feel.. i was exactly the same a few weeks ago... but to give u somme hope today i went shopping for household bits and bobs and a new handbag..and it felt so different from a few weeks ago.. when i couldnt walk out of the house without feeling anxious and desperate and just wanted to run from the shops... youll get there once sorted xx
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Thanks LW44,
I am up and down like a yoyo today. I have just had a panic attack and luckily I telephoned a friend. I was fine a week ago and have been for months. I am now suffering severe hormonal symptoms. I am convinced it's the extra oestrogen . All I know is that I am an intelligent normally confident and calm woman. As well as the physical symptoms , which are nigh on impossible to live a normal life with , the desperate panic ain't no picnic either.
I am happy, I am not stressed , so it is the hormones.
I was so well a week ago and have been for months , the only change is the increase in oestrogen.
Thank goodness for this forum as I think I would have gone mad without the ability to pour it all out to ladies that understand.
I have now all the 34 symptoms of menopause and feel like I have invented a few new ones to add!!
Peppermintyxx
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if you look at my previous posts. when i started the hrt i was asking if had too much oestrogen aswell.. in fact stopped taking for a day felt that bad... tearful anxious.. awful... i know you have increased and taking different hrt..but do u think its maybe body getting used to it and it will even out? i am convinced thats what happened with me..increased symptoms now fingers crossed things slowly evening out... i felt like on edge of panic attack constantly for a week... and YES. 100% agree its not a mental form its hormones ! xx
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Hi LW44,
It has got worse day by day while taking the extra oestrogen. It is not like when I started HRT , the symptoms got worse around period time and it was PMT. This is permanent all the time and not around my period.
This has been getting steadily worse over 3 weeks. It shouldn't be this bad , as I am not going from zero to 60 as before , this is from 45 to 60 miles an hour, so the effects should be minimal as so gradual an increase.
I know everyone says , more oestrogen is good, but surely not always.
Before I could see gradual improvement, I am just seeing downhill and so desperate I am verging on manic, never had that before. Anxiety yes, never manic !!
Just washed my face and my skin which is normally good , looks like I have rosacea or an allergy. I have a red drinkers nose ( I am t total) and eczema around my eyes . " days ago I had nice skin.
Something is amiss,- at least stopped crying now!
Peppermintyxx
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can you get in at drs? emergency appointment? is there progestrone in yr hrt? x
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Hi LW44,
I can't get in until Thursday to the doctors, but They probably wont have a clue about what to do with the HRT anyway. I have an appointment with the meno nurse in 2 weeks , but that is too long. I will have to wait until Thursday morning.
If I am going to take the pill I will have to wait for my period anyway to start taking it I think , so that will not be for another week anyway as I have started my period round about day 21 of the pack in the last 2 months.
My period has lasted for 10 days also so that has probably tired me out!
Just feel crap now , so that is better than crap and desperate!
Thanks for listening and supporting , it's a mare when you are on your own, dealing with all this.
Peppermintyxx
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glad yr feeling calmer... it is crap when dealing with on yr own... that in itself can make u more anxious.. im thinking about the pill aswell... got my appointment with consultant in 2 weeks... i work in private healthcare so luckily get insurance.. i cant stay on this oestrogen only indefinately as peri.. so dreading my switch around of hrt... im progestrone intolerant.. so god knows what im going to be offered...just want to get on even keel before they started changing everything.. x
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lW44 - brilliant news about the shopping. I knew I had a problem the day I no longer wanted to go shopping. You usually can't stop me, but when peri hit, opening the garden gate was an ordeal, let alone battling the High Street!
Pepperminty, just wanted to give you a big hug. It's so hideous and isolating, isn't it? You're probably fed up with us saying this, but are you sure it's too much estrogen and not a dip which has happened to occur at the same time as the switch? The reason I say this is that, reading through my old posts, I had exactly the same thing. I would rip off 50mcg patches in desperation when in fact I needed more. If you do ask for the pill, you'll be on a higher dose of estrogen and it will be synthetic, so even more potent. (You're on 2mg of bio identical, pill will probably be 3mg of synthetic unless you have Qlaira - which has same sort of estrogen as Femeston).
Really hope things settle soon, but in the meantime, remember we're here, and we get it. You're not alone xxx
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Hi Briony,
Thanks .I took the first combined pill last night and I went back to the old 1/10 dose. I feel knackered this morning , but not so wired. Still teary , but more in control.
I really don't know at this point regarding the oestrogen.
I just know that I am unable to wait months to find an HRT solution at present. I am starting a new relationship and I cannot expect my new man to put up with me like this, he has been used to the real me happy and fun. I am not turning into a horrible person , just feeling ill and pathetic, the worse point being that it is difficult to control!
I was expecting to feel just as crap this morning , but I appear - so far - not to be as bad!!
All I know is that yesterday was the worst for a very long time and the only change is the oestrogen dose .
Again thanks for your support as without it things would be even worse.
Peppermintyxx
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Glad you feel a bit calmer this morning Pepperminty.
I am keeping everything crossed for you that you can soldier through okay until you see the meno nurse.
One day, we shall look back at this hideousness and it will just seem like a bad dream. As a young teen I can remember my Mum having panic attacks thanks to hormones. Incredibly stressful at the time. 30 years later she genuinely can barely remember any of it.
She's a very active and positive 70 something. So there is hope.
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Thanks GRL,
feeling much better today so far!
I took the lesser dose last night , surely that cannot be a coincidence?
I do not feel so ill thank goodness.
Fingers crossed.
Peppermintyxx
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Great news you're feeling better :) :) :)
If you're not so wired today, that does sound like less estogen suits you better ? What were your symptoms that made you want to go up a dose? Xx
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Hi Briony,
I was taking 1/10 and still not having much energy , although feeling better. No tears , skin good, down below better etc. I was also taking a half tablet to top up the oestrogen every day and from an old pack and the meno nurse suggested I go up to 2/10. Which seems logical I suppose as I was only a half tablet away from the full Monty anyway.
Also my periods were 10 days long and that makes you more knackered.
So I thought I would give it a go , the first attempt after 3 days my eyelids swelled and I stopped and went back to 1/10 , then had another go when I got the aches back at the end of the progesterone phase.
I don't think it's me imagining it as I thought it would take a while for it to clear my system - not over night! Of course this could all change by lunch time, who knows?? :-\ ::)
I do feel better in myself as I am sure you can see by my posts! But I still look a bit zombie like, so taking it easy today and just pottering.
It's a mare.
I am still seeing the GP Thursday and I am still in 2 minds as to whether I should try the pill again and see? Or just see if the 1/10 will stabilize again ( but have too long periods) . I hope she will give me some advice. I like the idea of no periods as to be honest when entering new relationship to be bleeding for nigh on half the month is not very nice, as well as the tiredness aspect.
So what to do?
I wish someone could tell me what is the best course of action. It is so difficult being objective when it is yourself . I can be the voice of calm and reason for others in my life , but myself = noooo :o :-\ :-\
Peppermintyxx
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Ok so today I have felt normal .A bit tired, been out to shops , did a few bits and although I haven't as much energy as I would like I am not a jittery wreck, who feels like she will collapse at any moment or throw up.
This has to be the extra oestrogen , I am obviously sensitive to the build up? Who knows , I knew progesterone could do that too you but not oestrogen.
I am praying this carries on improving .
Thanks everyone for the support.
Peppermintyxxx
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great pepperminty :-) step at a time.. thats how i started feeling more comfortable within myself , think the same..my body was getting used to the extra oestrogen..2 weeks ago i was beside myself.. my mood flipping min by min.. now seem to just have a touch of anx in the morning... feel fine at work.. then bit of drop in mood when get home..tired i think... then settle down early evening.. it feels good to "normal" things doesnt it? are u off work ? x
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yes I am in between jobs, and giving myself some time to recover, I couldn't work like that. I just hope that going back to a lower dose works , or I may try the pill. Can't make my mind up,
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i took two weeks off sick.. i just couldnt face work. was too exhausted with the anxiety.. im at consultant in 2 weeks..decision time for me aswell.. x
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Glad things a bit calmer Pepperminty. Do let us know how Thursday goes. Will be keeping everything crossed that you get a good solution :) x
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Thanks ladies,
Scary what your hormones can do. I am ok like this , still achy, tired and a bit sensitive, but I can cope. The only major spanner in the works today is the almost 2 week periods and the tiredness.
So I may give it another month on the lower dose and maybe after discussing it with my GP go on the pill ? It's a difficult decision.
One of my meno symptoms is that I can't make decisions!!
Peppermintyxx
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I also think you should keep a diary to see whether any patterns emerge. It's unusual that estrogen causes tiredness - that's why we usually feel so uplifted at ovulation when it's at a peak. Makes me wonder if it's actually your progesterone level that's adding to the problems? I remember Hurdity saying high progesterone can cause fatigue. Also, people on the pill rarely have exhaustion as a side effect even though the estrogen is higher and more potent than HRT?
With me, I think my problems come when my own progesterone adds to what I am taking in the pill.
Whatever the cause, it's bloody hideous and ruins everything. Hope it stays away xxxxx
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Hi Briony,
thanks- I am keeping a dairy, and I seem to be ok on the progesterone phase, just a bit spotty and tired on the last few pills.
Perhaps the GP or meno nurse can explain.
Pmintyxx
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I haven't read all of this thread but oestrogen should not cause exhaustion! That is not its function -as you say Briony otherwise we would never get pregnant because we would be so tired at ovulation we wouldn't be bothered! This would not be a good reproductive strategy! Yes progesterone is a sedative so can cause fatigue, as can low oestorgen cause tiredness/depression. Testosterone plays a role too, not to mention thyroid hormones! What a wonderful system the endocrine system is! So complex!
When you are peri-menopausal also it is more difficult to get things right and to work out what effect or symptoms to atrribute to what hormone or treatment.
Hope you feel better soon pepperminty...
Hurdity x
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Thanks Hurdity ,
I am better now I have reduced the oestrogen and I am taking the progesterone - so am I a medical phenomenon ?
Just my luck if I was !
Pmintyxx
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What are you like after the prog phases? That was the real killer for me (psychologically) and is why I am worried about returning to sequential treatment. I'd be OK on prog but suffer afterwards. Weird because I had never really had PMS before all this chaos! So confusing isnt it? I've learnt it's exhausting even trying to make sense of it. My diary showed, above all, that there is no logic to my hormones! :-\
Good luck if you do go on the pill. DO post with your progress - it's really interesting and useful. Seems to be a good choice for GRL so fingers crossed it could work for you too. I so wish I could have upped my dose too (Q is only 2mg and is bio identical so not half as potent as the est in the BCP) but got a feeling even my own GP will say no (wouldn't look good on my records if locum said no, GP over rode that, then I did have a stroke) so am trying to get my head around other possibilities. Driving me nuts as I'd finally convinced myself to switch to the 'full' pill and was not expecting a total refusal >:(
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Thanks Hurdity ,
I am better now I have reduced the oestrogen and I am taking the progesterone - so am I a medical phenomenon ?
Just my luck if I was !
Pmintyxx
LOL - I once thought same thing about myself - and posted a similar thread to this. Looking back, I don't think it was high oestrogen but rather the amount of fluctuation from one level to another which caused that hideous fatigue? If nothing else, I think we both prove there is no 'typical' peri! x
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Hi ,
There is no problem with me taking the BCP and they were quite keen as it has lots of health benefits, such as improved bone density, regulation of periods and protection from ovarian cancer. They said give it 6 weeks to work and come back. The only thing they weren't sure about is whether it will be as good as HRT for my hooha and said to ask the meno nurse in a couple of weeks. They have given me mercilon as apparently marvelon would be too strong or something.
So if it works yehhh.
Can you get screened for the likelihood of complications on the pill Briony- just how increased do they think your chances are of having a stroke ?
Will be starting in 2 weeks when I finish the hrt packet.
Peppermintyxx
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Good luck pepperminty.
Is there any reason why you didn't go for Qlaira since it's bioidentical oestrogen?
Hooha? :-\
Hurdity x
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Hi ,
my Gp thought this one was the best and I didn't question it.
Hooha - foofoo - fandango - sorry my sense of humour!!
Peppermnity xx
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Oh, hurrah we can be BCP semi twins ( though I take Rigevidon not Mercilon).
Why do you have to wait 2 weeks to take it? I switched to it when I was mid HRT cycle and my GP was fine with that. But I don't use it for contraception though, so that might be why?
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Really pleased you've been able to get it. Fingers crossed for you . It'll be interesting to see
how you get on with Mercilon as it's a similar dose to Qlaira's main estrogen dose, plus it has a less progesterone dominant progesterone. It's what I'd have requested if I was 'allowed' it (though I'd have opted for 3mg version as I think 2mg is making me spot too much still).
I wonder if I could be screened for my risk? I can see what the doc was saying - it clearly states 'not suitable for people who have migraines with aura', plus Dad was left paralysed down one side from at stroke at 50 .... but I do believe you have to look at quality of life too. I feel miles better on Qlaira, but I feel sure the 2mg estrogen in Qlaira is not enough for me. I'm convinced that's why I've started bleeding today and had a headache when my natural period would have come (blank pills not due for three days) - I just need to convince a doctor! I know HRT patches are lower risk, but for some reason the thought of 200mcg patches concerns me far more than the supposedly more dangerous BCP. 200 mcg just seems so high ? :-\
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I am all for quality of life. Could you not sign a waiver for your GP to day you are aware of the risks but still want to try it?
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Hi Girls,
I have no idea why he suggested I start at the end of the pack of HRT , but I am happy to do so.
I wouldn't want to take any major risks Briony, but it would be interesting to know just what they are if you could be screened.
Also , I wouldn't want the spotting either, and if I get it I will tell the doctor ( he said go back in 6 weeks) . I intend to take it back to back because I do not want to have a bleed after several months of long and heavy ones.
The patch sounds a better option as it by passes the liver - but you have to feel comfortable with the idea. At least you can reduce it quickly if there are problems.
I think if you have to bleed with Qlaira , it isn't for me , as I don't want periods if possible.
Anyway BCP twins, but not (bio) identical - ha ha !!
Slept well last night and don't look like a zombie, so that is a bonus.
Pmintyxx
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Having read so many posts on MM about women trying high doses of oestrogen - I wouldn't be in a hurry to use really high doses, especially in the peri stage - 2mg is already quite high for the peri stage as your own hormones will be having an influence - kicking in and out. I found in my peri stage that I was better on a lowish dose, as with higher oestrogen I got headaches, felt dizzy and sick. I would have thought that you would be more likely to get spotting with higher doses of oestrogen as your womb lining would build up more?
It's all about finding the right balance of hormones and the combination of hormones that suit you - it's trial and error.
Briony - I suspect your own hormones have done a spike and that is why you are getting erratic bleeding.
Do keep in mind that there can be many reasons for fatigue - it can be triggered by viruses, stress etc. - I have had crashing fatigue at times that hits for no apparent reason but I realise it's a reaction some weeks after a stressful time or cold virus. I now know I need to pace myself more, say no to taking on too much and I'm being kinder to myself.
Pepperminty and Briony - do keep us posted. DG x
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Briony - yes 200 mcg patch is much much more oestrogen than 2 mg tablet HRT!! However not sure how it compares to the usual BCPs as these are different stronger synthetic oestrogens as you know...
Glad you slept well pepperminty :)
Hurdity x
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I'm confused about oestrogen levels. Everything I have read lately tells me that the younger you are going into peri menopause the more oestrogen you need to take. Presumably to maintain the higher levels found in younger women.
But if your own hormones are still dipping and spiking, if you add more high dose oestrogen to the mix won't it be mega high on some days?
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If you are peri, maybe the rise oestrogen with your own hormones has induced ovulation? It could be more than one follicle (and they can be a bit variable and substandard), as these things happen in peri. That could result in a blip of your own progesterone. (No basis for this - just idle speculation).
There is always the mirena and separate oestrogen-to-fit option, which always sounds good in peri situations where there is bleeding to control. I have thought about it, although I am a bit squeamish about the idea, and have very little bleeding on hrt, in spite of the frequent bleeding I had without it.
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But if your own hormones are still dipping and spiking, if you add more high dose oestrogen to the mix won't it be mega high on some days?
And high oestrogen suppresses ovulation........?
This is exactly what I am trying to get to understand too !
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Me too Pollie. Just so confused.
I'm on day 21 of the BCP. Technically it should have sgut down my ovaries completely at least 2 weeks ago, because according to its literature you can't get pregnant after being in it for 7 days, because it shuts down your ovaries by then.
So why has my mood now dipped again and left me feeling anxious and depressed? Nothing should be dipping or rising anymore.
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GRL, BCP pills on their own can cause mood swings. If you are having no other physical symptoms of hormonal fluctuations maybe it is the actual pill itself causing them, it is a side effect for some. Just a thought. If that is the case maybe a more oestrogen dominant pill would be better for you or progesterone dominant whichever you feel you are more emotionally stable on?
jedigirl xxx
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That's a thought jedigirl. Though I don't intend having a break from the Pill after 21 days so wouldn't have thought I would get any dips?
Unless you mean they can cause mood swings even if you don't have a break from them.
I would hesitate to go back to see my GP for a change in BCP as he was hugely skeptical it would work anyway.
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http://sbi4u3.weebly.com/endocrine-hormones-basic-mechanisms-and-the-menstrual-cycle.html
This seems to explain well the difference between a normal cycle and one with a contraceptive pill. I have no idea what the site is though.
Basically, the high levels of progestogen/progestin and oestrogen which you start to take on day 7 fool the body into thinking that ovulation has already taken place, so the hormones needed to ripen a follicle decline.
HRT does not contain anywhere near this amount of hormone. There is oestrogen to supplement your own and there is enough progesterone to prevent a build up of the endometrium that this may cause.
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GRL, BCP pills on their own can cause mood swings. If you are having no other physical symptoms of hormonal fluctuations maybe it is the actual pill itself causing them, it is a side effect for some. Just a thought. If that is the case maybe a more oestrogen dominant pill would be better for you or progesterone dominant whichever you feel you are more emotionally stable on?
jedigirl xxx
I think you're right. The pill you take is one of the safest but most progesterone dominant ones available. The progesterone PM will be taking is less likely to have side effects. Still early days, GRL but nice to know you have more options if ever required! X
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Just called doc. Apparently spotting on a 2mg BCP is a sign the estogen is too low for a BCP. Apparently more likely on Qlaira as it's the less potent form of estrogen too. My own period would be due about now but I have skipped the two blank pills to avoid a bleed whilst away. Woke up this morning with four great spots. I feel 16, but for all the wrong reasons! X
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Blimmey,
Im now a little confused myself.
As I understand it - too higher oestrogen can cause major problems too and what is too high for one might not be too high for another depending on where they are at meno wise.
That explains why I was so ill on the increased dose.
Found this :
in general with breakthrough bleeding, it is worth trying a higher dose of oestrogen (of course pathology such as a cervical problem or a sexually transmitted inf ection (STI) needs to be excluded first). Certain progesterones are associated with better cycle control than others (LNG better than NET, GSD better than DSG) but if a woman finds a particular progesterone suits her, for example DSG, but she experiences breakthrough bleeding with a low dose 20 mcg EE (Mercilon), then you can try moving up the same ladder staying with the same progesterone but increasing to a 30 mcg EE pill (Marvelon).
Oestrogen and Progestogen effects of combined oral contraceptive (COC)
Oestrogen Effects:
menorrhagia
cervical ectopy
breast fullness
migraine type headaches
fluid retention, weight gain (fluid)
tiredness, irritability
nausea
bloating
Try changing to:
lower oestrogen or higher progestogen pill or pill with some androgenic activity problems related to a relative oestrogen excess may be helped by prescribing a more progesterone dominant pill such as Microgynon 30 or Ovranette; or Loestrin 30,
Progestogen Effects:
scanty menses
leukorrhoea, dry vagina
breast tenderness
dull type of headache - often of pill withdrawal
appetite increase, weight gain
premenstrual depression
leg cramps, softening of ligaments
acne, greasy hair
vaginal dryness
low mood
low libido especially if associated with low mood
Crikey it is a mine field.
Yes the pill can cause side effects as above GRL, so it is whether the moods are less and better on the pill. You can always try a different pill type later. My GP said give it 6 weeks , so I would give it 2 months and see what the improvements are.
I am feeling much better which is good- thanks for the support ladies. Even my skin is looking better and I am on the progesterone phase of 1/10 ( and normally it goes a bit dodgy , but it is far less dodgy than it was on the femoston 2/10!!
Will keep you all updated on the saga ( was hoping for a light read , but peri meno is not a Jackie Collins novel - it's more War and Peace!! - Does War and Peace have a happy ending?
Peppermintyxx
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I have been spotting on the Pill pretty much every day for the last 2 weeks. Does this mean I'm still not getting enough oestrogen for Heaven's sake???
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http://sbi4u3.weebly.com/endocrine-hormones-basic-mechanisms-and-the-menstrual-cycle.html
This seems to explain well the difference between a normal cycle and one with a contraceptive pill. I have no idea what the site is though.
Basically, the high levels of progestogen/progestin and oestrogen which you start to take on day 7 fool the body into thinking that ovulation has already taken place, so the hormones needed to ripen a follicle decline.
HRT does not contain anywhere near this amount of hormone. There is oestrogen to supplement your own and there is enough progesterone to prevent a build up of the endometrium that this may cause.
What a great page dahliagirl - thanks for posting this!
To suppress ovulation oestrogen needs to be maintained at a high enough level for long enough to prevent (ultimately) the pituitary gland from producing FSH etc, so the follicle does not ripen and therefore ovulation is inhibited. The fine details are all rather complex aren't they?!
Sorry to hear about all your problems Briony and GypsyRoseLee and hope you manage to sort it soon! Glad you're still "up" pepperminty :)
Hurdity x
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Blimmey,
Im now a little confused myself.
As I understand it - too higher oestrogen can cause major problems too and what is too high for one might not be too high for another depending on where they are at meno wise.
That explains why I was so ill on the increased dose.
Peppermintyxx
It's strange that you've gone 'up' from Femeston with 2 mg of bio identical oestrogen to the BCP with 2 mg of more potent, synthetic oestrogen and feel better - but felt worse when you went from just 1 to 2 mg oestrogen (in Femeston)? I wonder if it was the increased progesterone in the Femeston which your body didn't like? The progesterone you're now taking is the one I'd choose to take as it's not too androgenic. Or perhaps your body prefers a synthetic oestrogen? I read on here the other day how some people are better with synthetic forms.
Isn't it interesting how our bodies all respond so differently? I've given up looking for any logic to it - I just pray for good days and try not to dwell on the bad ones! x
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I agree Briony. There doesn't seem to be any logic to peri menopausal fluctuations. I've given up trying to plot or plan ahead. All you can know and count on is how you feel right this moment (which for me is tired, headachy and very flat but also agitated).
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Hi Pepperminty,
Sorry I don't take HRT, but have found Magnesium taken at night really helpfull. Best of luck with it x
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Hi Briony,
I am still on the Femeston = lower dose and wont start the pill until I have finished the pack . I didn't feel well on the oestrogen only bit in femeston 2/10 and after 2 weeks of that went onto 1/10 in the combined phase. I was having 2 week periods on HRT and I am hoping the pill sorts this out.
It may not work , in which case I will go back and either get another type or go back to HRT .
I am fine on the progesterone bit now.
Pmintyxx
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Ah ha - sorry PM, I'd got the wrong end of the stick totally! :-X
On a different note, I still don't get why/how the Femeston 2/10 has 2 mg of estrogen but doesn't suppress ovulation or act as a contraceptive, yet the same dose in Qlaira (only 2 days are more than 2mg) and even Mercilon will function as a contraceptive? It'll be interesting to see how your body reacts to the higher dose but in contraceptive form. I'm wondering if I could swap to the same pill as you as it's only 2mg, not 3mg, albeit a more potent version of estrogen. Like you, I'd take it back to back which is tricky with Q as it's a four phase pill. Hopefully it'll kick your two week periods where they belong Xx
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Hi Ladies,
my moods and tiredness are still ok , but just my luck , I have a sore and painful throat. One of my glands is swollen and painful so either I am fighting something off or I am coming down with something!!
If it isn't one thing it's another!!
Anyone remember the days when you didn't even think about being /feeling ill?
Drinking lemsip and going to have a snooze.
All I need is my period now and that would be the icing on the cake!! I was hoping for a nice Bank holiday weekend where I could enjoy myself , not have the lurgy !!
Pmintyxx
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Hi Ladies,
It's a case of when one door closes another one slams you in the face at the moment. I have never had a throat like this , painful , swollen and you can visibly see my lymph nodes bulging out of my neck! It is painful to swallow and I feel crap.
And on top of that I am getting stomach cramps signalling that my period is due around day 21 again in the pack.
I feel so tired on top of the usual tired from the peri meno.
You know when you have the feeling that everything is conspiring against you!!
My general health anxiety caused by the meno is looming around me.
Peppermintyxx
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:foryou: :hug:
PM, sending you sympathy. When you're already under the weather, everything hormonal seems to be multiplied (especially the anxiety). Pants timing with the bank hol too. Hope things ease soon .
Xxx
Ps This was meant to cheer you up, but reading it back, it's not exactly an uplifting post! ???
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Thanks Briony,
it did cheer me up. Yes pants timing.
Pmintyxx
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Started the pill today in place of HRT and terrified that it may not work or give me more side effects.
That's the peri meno health anxiety for you.
I am desperate for it to help, - I am aware that nothing is perfect , but no 2 week periods and less exhaustion would help.
I have a bit of a headache , but I am hoping that it is just a headache and not anything pill related. I also feel tired , but again I have just started my period , so I would be - it is so easy to blame the meds - just as we do with HRT when it could be a number of other factors.
Fingers crossed ladies.
Pmintyxx
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Hope it makes you feel better pepperminty! Remind me what pill you are taking and how old you are?
Do hope the headache clears :)
Hurdity x
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Keeping everything crossed for you xxx
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Pepperminty, the pill you're on is pretty similar to the one I take - lower dose estrogen and a less progesterone dominant progesterone. (Q is four phase and bio identical though). Looking back at my diary, I had real health anxiety at the start and was petrified that if it didn't work, what on earth was left to consider. I did get side effects in the first few weeks, especially itching and spotting. By month three final bleed was less than a drip. Most significantly, by month three my whole outlook had improved. I started to regain my sense of perspective. The fatigue took longer to shift than I'd expected - would get random moments when it struck - but now it never lasts more than a few hours. The down days are no longer down weeks/fort nights. Overall I am so glad I moved to the pill - even if it's not perfect - and hopefully a similar pill could have similar effects for you too xxx