Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: Greenfields on July 01, 2015, 08:58:12 AM
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When I last saw my Dr I mentioned I was still experiencing anxiety in the morning. She prescribed some betablockers - 40mg propanol. I took beta blockers in my twenties (don't know the dose or medication then) for a very short time as I was experiencing panic attacks. I stopped taking them then because while they treated the physical symptoms (heart racing) I still had panicky thoughts - so I decided to work on that through getting into yoga.
The reason I mention this is because the anxiety I get in the morning now is more of an anxious stomach and nausea - not so much heart racing. And just a sense of a lot of fear.
I've been wondering whether the beta blockers would work with these symptoms? I googled about beta blockers and anxiety and nausea and saw that in some cases they can actually increase one's sense of anxiety. The medication leaflet also said the same thing.
So I'm kind of scared to take them ... but I think if they worked on my symptoms, they would actually help me function better.
Does anyone have any experience with betablockers? And if so, do you just use them for a racing heart or do you use them for fear and nausea and anxiety generally? Any information appreciated.
Also, do you take them regularly? The Dr told me I should take them as needed. The leaflet says take them twice a day ... so I'm not sure.
Also, it says take them before meals so what do you do if you feel anxious after eating?
And can you take them and then exercise? That's one reason I didn't take them early this morning as I want to go to an exercise class (in about 30 minutes).
I've also read that they affect sleep? I don't sleep that well as it is - has anyone had sleep disturbances from using them?
Thanks for any information. I've yet to open the packet and try one as I'm so scared of the side effects.
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I use Propanolol for anxiety but only a tiny amount 10mg as the forty knocked me for six. It made my heart far too slow. I take one after breakfast. It does calm things down a bit and I certainly notice the difference if I forget.
I can't take them at night as they keep me awake. I really would suggest cutting one in half and giving it a try. You can build up if they suit you.
I know others take far more than me but I'm very sensitive to medication and could not tolerate AD'S at all, so hence the small dose of beta blocker.
Honeyb
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I am like HB and very sensitive to meds. My endocrinologist gave me PP back in January, 10mg three times a day. That was far too much for me and made me feel funny and I now take half (5mg) morning and evening and it keeps me steady.
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Yep. My GP prescribed them in 2002 - initially 80mg Propranolol at night and after 3 months dropped to 40mg which I take, supposedly to stop that early morning surge of anxiety. It's my gut that is my weak point so if the panic takes over I have another emergency tablet to use which stems it thank someone's God :-\. Otherwise ……
No sleep disturbances that I can attribute to BBs. Have you tried Rescue Remedy, there are mouth sprays and pastilles which can ease symptoms. I have used BBs and RR with good effect.
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Hi Greenfields,
just wanted to say I recently met an old friend who has been taking that for a long while and swears by it but takes it as and when. Big hug and thanks for you lovely responses to me and my crises.
Sallyx
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Thanks for these lovely replies - I really appreciate them. I went to my exercise class and did it despite feeling nauseous and anxious during it. Then I went home and ate lunch and then .... I felt a lot better! So I haven't taken any yet.
I think what I might do is take one on a day that I'm feeling anxious but where I'm not scheduled to do much - so if they leave me feeling less than good, I can rest until they've worked their way through my system - and then I'll go back to the Dr and see whether there's something else I should take.
Thanks for the tip about the 40mg Honeybun - when I looked at the dose, I did think it was rather a lot but I can't remember what I took when I was younger and I don't think I took them for very long either.
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Check to see if it's a slow release dose,some of them are as in you take it at bedtime in case it causes drowsiness then it releases a measured dose over 24hours,if it isn't this type you could ask for it that way.
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Just checked ... it's not!
I guess I will have to 'test' them out sometime to figure out what impact they have ... still a bit nervous though :-\ I asked for them as a bit of a safety net in case I needed them but without knowing how they are going to affect me it's a bit of an unknown quantity. I've just been looking up Air Canada flights for July and August and if I don't book a ticket soon, it's going to cost me a lot more money than I would like to pay ... I mention this because the beta blockers were going to be one of my go to's if I started to panic a bit during the trip (if I'm able to make it) ... so it's a bit unnerving.
Does anyone out there who is sensitive to meds have any suggestions for medications which can help with panic, anxiety, fear etc in terms of both the type of medication and the dose (i.e. low doses)? Wouldn't normally think of taking a medicine cabinet with me but ... after what I've been through the last few months, I'm a bit loath to just trust that HRT, breathing, meditation, exercise and a bit of yoga will do the trick if I start to feel like I'm going to have a complete melt down!
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Personally I would ask for diazepam. The GP will probably be ok in giving you a few for emergency use. The usual dose is 2mg. As I said I am really sensitive to meds but I'm fine with these. The only side effect I have is a bit of a headache about four hours after I have taken one.
They would certainly help you cope if you got uptight about your flight.
Honeyb
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How do you mean 'sensitive'? I had bad reactions to some of the ADs prescribed in that I felt very very sick within 48 hours and was unable to tolerate it.
I take my 40mg BB at night and if necessary another in the morning …….. that is rare though. You could ask a Pharmacist what else is available for use in anxiety surges then have a chat with your GP. Often the anticipation is worse than the event but that don't help me one iota when anxiety strikes :'(
How's 2-day been otherwise?
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Sensitive means I have really strong reactions to medications because I so rarely take them - Sertraline made me very ill after taking it for 2 days and it took me a week and a half to get over all the reactions from taking that.
The last 2 days (today and yesterday) I've started meditating again without a guided CD track ... it means I practice just being with whatever emotions are present in my body - so have been sitting with fear. It's really hard but I think that doing this will perhaps help me when I start doing more stressful things ... if I can just sit with the difficult emotion and not push it away. It's progress in a way because I couldn't face doing this up until this week - I was just using guided CD tracks as a support because sitting by myself with my emotions was too much.
Yesterday went okayish - but I feel constantly stuck in my body in survival mode at the moment which is very wearing. Would love to just be able to relax and know that I have secure accommodation and some employment that makes ends meet ... and the longer my recovery drags on, the harder it is to hold hope even though I can see that I am better than I was in March.
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I have a 1-5 tick list - 0 is no anxiety = enjoying myself, 5 is having to take emergency med., tick on the calendar as necessary makes me see that I did survive ::)
Very rarely can I 'ride' an anxiety surge out ………
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Aren't beta-blockers medication for people with heart problems ie racing heart as part of a heart condition? Personally, as such I wouldn't want to take them for anxiety - I would not want to artificially slow my heart unless a medical condition had been diagnosed.
However I understand your dilemma and given your reaction to medication and your impending flight, if you are really worried that you might get a panic attack mid flight (I've never been on a long-haul flight and would be extremely nervous!!) then I would try them out before you go just so that you know whether they are going to have side effects.
Well done by the way for coping with your stress and anxiety through "mindful" methods. Also do you have a good breakfast especially before your exercise class? I do a couple of morning ones and try to finish breakfast at least an hour beforehand to avoid that light-headed feeling.
Hurdity x
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Aren't beta-blockers medication for people with heart problems ie racing heart as part of a heart condition? Personally, as such I wouldn't want to take them for anxiety - I would not want to artificially slow my heart unless a medical condition had been diagnosed.
However I understand your dilemma and given your reaction to medication and your impending flight, if you are really worried that you might get a panic attack mid flight (I've never been on a long-haul flight and would be extremely nervous!!) then I would try them out before you go just so that you know whether they are going to have side effects.
Well done by the way for coping with your stress and anxiety through "mindful" methods. Also do you have a good breakfast especially before your exercise class? I do a couple of morning ones and try to finish breakfast at least an hour beforehand to avoid that light-headed feeling.
Hurdity x
Yep beta blockers are for heart issues but are prescribed off label by Dr's for anxiety. I still haven't tried them yet though.
Haven't booked a flight yet - will need to soon if I'm going to go in July.
Yes I do have breakfast prior to exercise class ... even though I often feel sick while eating it. But I find that if I eat breakfast, then do an exercise class, then I usually feel better afterwards most times (not always). However, haven't figured out what I'm going to do when I start work again and can't fit in a morning exercise class ... or when I come back from the exercise class and I'm so tired I need to nap ... but that's a problem for another day.
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Beta blocker medications for anxiety
Beta blockers are a type of medication used to treat high blood pressure and heart problems. However, beta blockers are also prescribed off-label for anxiety. Beta blockers work by blocking the effects of norepinephrine, a stress hormone involved in the fight-or-flight response. This helps control the physical symptoms of anxiety such as rapid heart rate, a trembling voice, sweating, dizziness, and shaky hands.
Because beta blockers don't affect the emotional symptoms of anxiety such as worry, they're most helpful for phobias, particularly social phobia and performance anxiety. If you're anticipating a specific anxiety-producing situation (such as giving a speech), taking a beta blocker in advance can help reduce your “nerves.â€
They are very commonly and safely prescribed and so very helpful for many.
Honeybun
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Thanks Honeybun! Without mine I would be lost, they are a 'banned substance' for sports people they work so well ;)
It is wise to give them a 'go' well before an event though, so that you know what reaction you feel …….. so that you don't mis-interpret that reaction ;)
I trust my GP, Practice Nurse and Dentist not to prescribe anything untoward!
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The information label in the box shows the recommended dose to treat anxiety so they are clearly intended for use in this way. My endocrinologist gave me Propranolol to counteract problems due to thyrotoxicosis last year but they also help with anxiety and my GP agrees so continues to prescribe me a very low dose as needed :) .
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BBs seem to have several uses.
The first time I heard of Beta blockers it was for people using them to reduce anxiety in stressful situations, i.e. auditions for orchestras or music colleges.
Many years after that I was given them to prevent migraines, I noticed then that they are intended to slow down pulse / heart beat.
OH was given some last Christmas when he was in A&E having bad heart palpitations and tachycardia. When he went in his pulse was varying between 44 and 180. He was given BBs, despite he warning that they shouldn't be used with an irregular pulse. It nearly killed him, he had to stay in the coronary care unit for 3 days.
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The information label in the box shows the recommended dose to treat anxiety so they are clearly intended for use in this way. My endocrinologist gave me Propranolol to counteract problems due to thyrotoxicosis last year but they also help with anxiety and my GP agrees so continues to prescribe me a very low dose as needed :) .
What low dose do they prescribe? Just curious. My GP prescribed 40mg and that seems quite a lot to me which is one reason why I haven't taken any yet!
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BBs seem to have several uses.
The first time I heard of Beta blockers it was for people using them to reduce anxiety in stressful situations, i.e. auditions for orchestras or music colleges.
Many years after that I was given them to prevent migraines, I noticed then that they are intended to slow down pulse / heart beat.
OH was given some last Christmas when he was in A&E having bad heart palpitations and tachycardia. When he went in his pulse was varying between 44 and 180. He was given BBs, despite he warning that they shouldn't be used with an irregular pulse. It nearly killed him, he had to stay in the coronary care unit for 3 days.
So sorry to hear that Limpy - it sounds awful.
Hugs xxx
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I had 80mg at night initially - after 3 months it was put down to 40mg ………… occasionally I feel like something is on the top of my head ;D so I have a break for 24 hours. Try it before you need it to feel what it does ;)
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BBs seem to have several uses.
The first time I heard of Beta blockers it was for people using them to reduce anxiety in stressful situations, i.e. auditions for orchestras or music colleges.
Many years after that I was given them to prevent migraines, I noticed then that they are intended to slow down pulse / heart beat.
OH was given some last Christmas when he was in A&E having bad heart palpitations and tachycardia. When he went in his pulse was varying between 44 and 180. He was given BBs, despite he warning that they shouldn't be used with an irregular pulse. It nearly killed him, he had to stay in the coronary care unit for 3 days.
So sorry to hear that Limpy - it sounds awful.
Hugs xxx
Thanks Greenfields
Thankfully OH is OK now, he should never have been given BBs, it was an error.
HOWEVER, REMEMBER BBs are used, widely and successfully for the treatment of anxiety with no problems.
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Greenfields my endocrinologist prescribed initially 10mg three times a day. I have reduced this successfully myself over 6 months with my GPs blessing to 5mg (half a tablet) 2 or 3 times a day as needed. I see my endo again in 2 weeks time. He is of the opinion that 5mg is too little to do any good but it takes the edge off for me. Any more makes me feel quite odd.
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Greenfields my endocrinologist prescribed initially 10mg three times a day. I have reduced this successfully myself over 6 months with my GPs blessing to 5mg (half a tablet) 2 or 3 times a day as needed. I see my endo again in 2 weeks time. He is of the opinion that 5mg is too little to do any good but it takes the edge off for me. Any more makes me feel quite odd.
Thanks for that. The dose my Dr prescribed is 40mg which seems a lot ... if and when I try a tablet, I think I will halve it if I can.
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Take the 40mg at night so that any side-effects will be slept off ;) - cutting the pill in half won't give the measured dosage!
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Take the 40mg at night so that any side-effects will be slept off ;) - cutting the pill in half won't give the measured dosage!
I'me not certain CLKD, but possibly Greenfields thinks 40mg is a bit too much, hence her wanting to cut the tablet in half.
In the past when I've queried the amount of a different medication (think it was 10mg Amitriptyline) I was told by GP and pharmicist to cut the tablet in half. It does seem to be an accepted practice.
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Take the 40mg at night so that any side-effects will be slept off ;) - cutting the pill in half won't give the measured dosage!
I've read that one of the side effects if you take it at night is hallucinations and nightmares!
I have enough issues with sleep with adding these to them! Plus I don't tend to feel jittery at night - its in the morning - I really should have tried taking one this morning.
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Take the 40mg at night so that any side-effects will be slept off ;) - cutting the pill in half won't give the measured dosage!
I'me not certain CLKD, but possibly Greenfields thinks 40mg is a bit too much, hence her wanting to cut the tablet in half.
In the past when I've queried the amount of a different medication (think it was 10mg Amitriptyline) I was told by GP and pharmicist to cut the tablet in half. It does seem to be an accepted practice.
Yes absolutely - it seems a large dose and I didn't query it at the time ...
I'm seeing the Dr on 13th July so I will ask her then if I haven't tried taking one by then. One of the problems at the moment is I do a lot of exercise so the last thing I want to do when I wake up jittery is to take one and then have breakfast and then head off mid-morning to a very vigorous exercise class - somehow that doesn't seem a good mix with a slow heart rate?!
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Or call your GP and request a milder one explaining you are nervous of a large dose and would like to start small and work up if needs be.
Cutting in half is also fine. You can buy a pill cutter for accuracy.
I take just 10mg. The stronger one made me feel most peculiar and unwell. I also can't take at night as it keeps me awake.
Honeybun
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It was the dose I was perscribed,everyone will have different experience with any drug so you won't know until you try ! I was dubious at first but it did take all my anxiety,palps,etc away but it made me sleepy ,hence the suggestion to take it at night time . All drugs come with side effects warnings unfortunately but you not have any ,I'm very susceptible to any new medication but I was fine ,as I say we are all different. Hope it goes well for you too it certainly beats anxiety,palps,etc.
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Well so far since 2002 I haven't noticed any hallucinations …….. sure that was for BBs ;D ;)
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I can't remember what dose of propranolol I was on, no surprise there then ::)
The side effects I did have, were, getting very dizzy on standing up, oh, and my fingers and ankles getting very swollen.
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too much made me heart rate too slow and I felt like I wasn't getting oxygen to my brain.
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I was just wiped out, and very cold. I just knew I felt really unwell. I remember being out with hubby and DD. We came home because I felt awful. I spent the rest of the day on the sofa.
I was very aware of my heart beat, or lack of it, it seemed.
I think my issue with medication in general is a one size fits all. I'm not tall and don't weigh an awful lot but I'm given the same dose as a twelve stone six foot man. How on earth does that even hope to work. In my mind it doesn't. As with pets and young children weight is taken into account. As for the rest of us....just get on with it.
Sorry a bit of a mini rant. ::)
Honeybun
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I think my issue with medication in general is a one size fits all. I'm not tall and don't weigh an awful lot but I'm given the same dose as a twelve stone six foot man. How on earth does that even hope to work.
That's it exactly!
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Glad you agree ::). I like a rant, gets it off the chest ;D
Honeybun
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My GP didn't agree with that scenario though, but initially lots of drugs 'knocked' me out or made me really queasy :-\
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I think my issue with medication in general is a one size fits all. I'm not tall and don't weigh an awful lot but I'm given the same dose as a twelve stone six foot man. How on earth does that even hope to work.
That's it exactly!
That's why I need to be careful - I currently fit a size 6 clothing and size 8's are loose on me .... I was a size 12 before all this menopausal stuff blew up - so a lot of beta blocker would probably not do me any good!
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Cut it in half and you will be just fine....and a lot calmer.
Let us know how it goes.
Honeybun
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Hi Greenfields,
I don't know if this will help.
I went through 2 years of feeling nauseous and panicking in the morning . I threw up acid and wretched everyday. I wretched cleaning my teeth , I cried every morning and panicked every morning. My sleep was awful due to the worry that I wouldn't make it to work. It was literally like having a hangover every day ( but with no alcohol).
The only thing that eventually worked to alleviate the vicious cycle was acceptance. I decided and believe me it wasn't easy , that if I was sick , I was sick ,if I panicked I panicked - what was the worse that could happen at that moment ? I knew it would wear off eventually as the morning went on and I tried to concentrate on anything else I could.
Being alone as yourself , it is more difficult as you do not have anyone else to take your mind off things or concentrate on. So everything seems huge. At least that is how I have felt.
Just congratulate yourself on the progress you have made and trust that you have survived what has been thrown at you by fate so far and you will come through again a wiser and more capable person.
Pepperminty xx
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I prefer to be alone when in panic mode so I don't have to justify myself ……..
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Hi Greenfields,
I don't know if this will help.
I went through 2 years of feeling nauseous and panicking in the morning . I threw up acid and wretched everyday. I wretched cleaning my teeth , I cried every morning and panicked every morning. My sleep was awful due to the worry that I wouldn't make it to work. It was literally like having a hangover every day ( but with no alcohol).
The only thing that eventually worked to alleviate the vicious cycle was acceptance. I decided and believe me it wasn't easy , that if I was sick , I was sick ,if I panicked I panicked - what was the worse that could happen at that moment ? I knew it would wear off eventually as the morning went on and I tried to concentrate on anything else I could.
Being alone as yourself , it is more difficult as you do not have anyone else to take your mind off things or concentrate on. So everything seems huge. At least that is how I have felt.
Just congratulate yourself on the progress you have made and trust that you have survived what has been thrown at you by fate so far and you will come through again a wiser and more capable person.
Pepperminty xx
Thank you Pepperminty - those are very wise words. And so true - it's what I am trying to do at the moment. Today I woke up feeling icky again and just got moving once I was up (I've been waking up at around 4am recently which hasn't helped - so I doze until the alarm goes off). Once I keep busy, have eaten breakfast and just get on with jobs I need to do, then at some point in the mid morning, I start to feel a bit better. I'm really looking forward to getting my housing and work stabilised - I think once I can get those things sorted out a bit, I will feel a bit better. So going back to Canada and sorting that out is going to be a priority once I'm 100% certain my nervous system will hold.
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Beta Blockers, Propranolol, are great for the physical effects of anxiety. I take then occasionally, the only ill effects I get, is they do slow you down a bit, can make your eyes dry. They will help you to relax. They also use them for PTSD to help to lessen the memory of traumatic events. I take the 40mg. I don't take them at night because I tend to get very dark dreams, wouldn't want to make them any worse.
Years ago I was on the 80mg slow release, but I prefer the 40mg. When I asked the Dr about overdose, he said you would have to take about 80-100 of them! Yet my aunty, cuts them in quarter because she believes they make her high!
We are all different.
If only they would hurry up and legalise cannabis! I would be in a café right now.
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So I took one this morning. Not right away - which I should have done as I woke up with racing heart and jittery feeling.
I took one about 30 minutes later when I was still feeling anxious but heart wasn't racing.
To be absolutely honest, I didn't notice a huge difference ... maybe a little bit of calm? But it didn't remove the anxiety completely as I was expecting it to. I was able to sit and meditate - but I was going to do that anyway.
So I don't know how useful it is really ... I might take one again if I wake up with a racing heart - perhaps if I took it straight away, I would notice the difference more?
The only thing I'm noticing at the moment (about an hour and 20 minutes after I've taken it) is that part of my tongue feels a bit numb/or as if its had something hot on it. But that might be the effect of my breakfast porridge ... so I can't attribute it to the beta blocker necessarily. And I haven't had any other side effects that I've noticed yet.
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perhaps if I took it straight away, I would notice the difference more?
I think that's definitely the case for the racing heart situation.
With the anxiety, not sure, but it probably takes a little while to start getting the benefits there.
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Limpy is right. It calms a racing heart within about 20 minutes usually but for overall anxiety I was advised that it has a cumulative effect and needs to be taken regularly at first. Also you should not stop it without weaning off slowly or it can upset the heart rhythm. Be advised by your docter. Propranolol has been around for a long time and they know about its usefulness.
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Limpy is right. It calms a racing heart within about 20 minutes usually but for overall anxiety I was advised that it has a cumulative effect and needs to be taken regularly at first. Also you should not stop it without weaning off slowly or it can upset the heart rhythm. Be advised by your docter. Propranolol has been around for a long time and they know about its usefulness.
Oh I'll have to ask my Dr about this as she prescribed it to use as and when I need it - not for continued daily use (as I understood it). I won't take anymore until I see her (July 13th).
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Give the Surgery a ring. There are a few ways that BBs are administered so you need to know if yours is slow release or daily.
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How strange Greenfields as I was taking it as and when and was advised to take it daily.
If you are in any doubt, and it sounds as though you are, best get your doctor's reassurance and be guided by them.
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Just to say I took another one on Sunday (after my trip to London on Saturday) as I woke up with acute anxiety (I think I'd pushed my nervous system a bit too much). The beta blocker calmed everything down which helped.
I spoke to my Dr today and i am going to take 40mg beta blockers daily - 1 on waking and, if I need to, another 6 hours later. She said that it should help deal with the anxiety in the morning and even out any surges of adrenalin (which I tend to get first thing in the morning).
So feeling more optimistic about things now. She also said that 40mg is a really small dose. Apparently it comes in as high a dose as 110mg! But she said that she's found that less than 40mg doesn't work for a lot of people - even though it comes in 10mg as well. She said if I find that two 40mg doses a day are too much, she can prescribe the 10mg as well and then I would take 1 40mg and 1 10mg a day. But for the moment I'm going to see how 1 40mg dose a day works.
This morning I didn't have much anxiety which helped as well - I think it only happens when I push myself a bit too much more than my nervous system is fully ready for. But I also did extra yoga and meditation yesterday which really helped.
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That sounds positive Greenfields. I also find my symptoms are worse when I push myself beyond my own limits.
I am extremely sensitive to chemicals and drugs and 5 - 10mg 2 or 3 times a day is more than enough for me. Propranolol is good because it is available is many different strengths so it is easy to find a dose that suits. Sometimes on a good day I forget to take it but it is good to have it there when needed :)