Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: Dancinggirl on June 25, 2015, 01:47:50 PM
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Hi ladies
We often get posts on MM asking about 'natural' remedies or women wanting to pursue the 'natural route' when dealing with their meno symptoms and I am finding this progressively more worrying.
I have certainly dabbled with herbal and dietary remedies, supplements and all sorts of alternative treatments - I've spent a fortune over the years but most have had no positive effect. What I am worried about are the possible negative effects any so called 'natural' remedies might be having and I don't just mean on our financial health :-X
It is so easy to purchase all manor of supplements, herbs and remedies which claim all sorts of cures yet, though I deep down know they won't necessarily do anything, I can still fall for the charms of these 'natural cures' and I fear there are many others who do the same.
The HRT and drugs prescribed by our doctors have been tested extensively so side effects and benefits are generally known but so many herbs and remedies we buy over the counter will not have been tested or produced with the same diligence.
St John's Wort has been extensively studied and carries warnings if taken with other drugs - whilst it can be effective for mild to moderate low mood, which brand should one buy and what is an appropriate dose? I believe Echinacea should only be taken for a maximum of 6 weeks at a time. Excessive doses of certain vitamins like Vitamin A can be harmful.
Many women use Black Cohash for flushes - is this totally safe?
Early on in my peri stage I went to a chinese doctor believing that the herbal concoction she gave me would be more natural than HRT - I later found out it could have been highly toxic if taken for any length of time.
Should we be self medicating and experimenting with these 'natural remedies' without professional advice??
DG x
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No - I really believe that professional advice and treatment using complementary medicine is paramount to it's success and safety. Any remedy you can buy over the counter is only suitable for mild symptoms and some everyday acute situations. Balancing of hormones is a complicated issue and to get the most out of any medicine (both orthodox and complementary) I believe professional guidance is needed.
I do however believe that complementary medicine can be very effective :)
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I am a great believer in natural remedies but I am lucky in that I have Jan de Vries in my area. He is a very well known and respected practioner.
One of the first things he asks is what are you taking.
However he also has a help line that is staffed by very knowledgeable ladies who also take time and care before any suggestions are made.
I think the number is available on his website....if not if anyone would like it then please PM me and I will send it when I get home.
They obviously want you to buy and will post things out but I always ask for advice, do my own research and then buy from the cheapest place....which is sometimes them.
Honeybun
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Yes I worry. I worry very much.
Millions of pounds every year is spent on 'natural' remedies which have not been proven in any way whatsoever. Often these natural remedies cost 3-4 times more than a NHS prescription.
I will never understand why people waste their money on these bogus medicines. Their effect is entirely psychosomatic. A world authority on alternative medicine and lecturer based at Exeter University (can't remember his name for the moment) spent years conducting an investigative study which showed that only Black Cohosh and St John's Wort had some SLIGHT benefits. All the rest were just pointless placebos.
I'm sure people just buy into the romantic ideal that their herbalist/homeopath gets up on a summer's dawn to hand pick wild herbs and flowers growing free in the hedgerows, before carefully distilling them down into magical potions ::)
Instead, of course, these alternative practitioners source their pills and potions from the cheapest supplier, who is entirely unregulated and selling products that haven't been scientifically tested or analysed in anyway. It's dangerous and delusional.
Yes, people had to make do with herbs and home grown medicinal remedies for thousands of years. And that's why mortality rates were so incredibly high until the advent of modern medicine. People back in medieval times, suffering with God knows what illnesses and ailments, would have thanked their lucky stars to have access to the drugs we have nowadays. They'd have sprinted out of their local hedgewitches' hovel or apothecary's shop faster than you could blink to get their hands on modern medicine.
Yet, ironically we now have millions of people keen to try tinctures and pills that were doing the rounds 800 years ago. They didn't work back then and they don't work now.
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Without treading on any toes here too, just making a wider point.
As already said there are no studies that have ever shown the supplements actually work.
Even recent vit d studies showed no beneficial effects on ladies with menopause symptoms.
They can give the placebo effect for some ladies too which further confuses things.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11910672
Ultimately we are able to purchase these items if we want.
If it helps, great, if it does not, we move on.
Unfortunately the hidden dangers and costs to our time, purse, liver and other aspects of our well being are just not understood, studied or visible in the same way we have for HRT options.
The other item that some ladies don't factor in is time.
If we spend our time (and money) on supplements for a few months or years, then that is time our bodies have been without estrogen.
In this time there are aspects of menopause that may take a long time to resolve depending on how long we've put off using HRT, that is a fact and well understood in terms of bones, flushes, atrophy and all the other symptoms/issue we get.
Personally I wish I'd taken HRT before the point my body cried "stop" in relation to bladder/atrophy related symptoms I had. It took my body a long time to repair after starting HRT.
But I'm glad I did not put my faith on supplements, when things could have got much worse, more difficult and longer to recover from.
So "yes" I am more worried about "Natural Remedies" or perhaps non-hormone / non-medicinal remedies might be a better name for these supplements.
:-*
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I have used St John's Wort successfully for 6 years with my doctor's blessing as I cannot tolerate SSRIs. My endocrinologist also knows I use it and is happy for me to do so as it helps keep me on an even keel.
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Oh dear - have I opened a can of worms???
Honeybun and Brightlight - you are actually endorsing my viewpoint. I know there are some highly reputable professionals out there - many of whom have medical training - who can offer good advice. I just wish we didn't have to pay for it.
My worry is also around what GypsyRoseLee is saying concerning the bandwagon that so many join in the belief that herbs and remedies are somehow 'natural'. Many drugs are plant based after all so if you use herbs and remedies are these not drugs?
babyjane - yes, St John's Wort is actually prescribed by doctors as a first line of treatment in some countries.
When I had my year out from HRT in 2013/14, I bought Red clover (terribly expensive) and ate a lot of soya and other phytoestrogenic foods in the hope my flushes would improve - sadly I experienced no improvement. I did hear (I'm certainly not sure this is true) that women who have breast cancer are actually advised not to have a diet high in phytoestrogens - which in turn would raise the question, "If phytoestrogens reduce meno symptoms by giving us some form of oestrogen, are there not risks in eating this kind of diet?"
If the herbs and remedies could offer significant help for our meno symptoms without the risks of taking HRT, do you think the drugs companies would have found a way to market them for profit or have them prescribed by our doctors?
I so long for there to be some magic remedy that can help we meno ladies without the risks and side effects of HRT. :-\ DG xxx
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The trouble on your usage of SJW babyjane is simple.
If the doc prescribed a drug that could have potential damage to your liver then they would screen for that damage ever so often.
Most people taking SJW on their own are not being monitored or reviewed in any way.
You might be lucky and have no issues but perhaps it might be good to get your doc to check out how your body is coping.
Just to be on the safe side :)
:-*
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You can't patent food and you can't patent herbs, or accupuncture. We live in a commercial world.
For perspective, there are many many drugs that are NOT released that can save lives, there are many studies that begin to prove the effectiveness of nutrition on conditions on the Autistic Spectrum - there is never any money to pursue the first findings.
We live in an imperfect world and we have to choose what to put our trust in, what we feel comfortable with and what relationships we form with those that care for our health, there simply isn't a black or white, right or wrong. There are pro's and con's to almost every choice and in the future we will look back, perhaps, on some medical breakthroughs and think they were as naive as picking some leaves to help our digestion ;)
I am being somewhat tongue in cheek with my words, but I really do think it's misguided to even begin to think there is ONE answer to anything. The point of DG's post that really is important is that we must take responsibility for our choices and many complementary medicines do have a bad press and quite rightly so. IF the patient is lulled into a false sense of expectation or non 'danger' - the same could be said of pharmaceuticals though. Buyer beware :)
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Well I would rather take SJW than SSRIs (and I have tried a few of those in the past) - nasty toxic things with horrible side effects.
My endocrinologist does a whole blood screen across the board every 6 - 12 months so I am not going looking for any further issues or there is a danger of becoming a little health obsessed.
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Good points kateclaws. Many GPs are clueless when it comes to treating meno symptoms and often offer ADs/SRRIs instead of HRT simply assuming women are depressed and declare that HRT is too dangerous. ADs and SRRIs also carry some nasty side effects but nobody seems to be worried about that.!! GPs will usually glance through their 'magic' book and choose the cheapest option or the wrong type of HRT as well. DG x
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I do not PAY for a consultation with Jan de Vries...it's free.
I agree with BJ. I would rather put something like SJW in my body than an AD if I could. SJW is prescribed widely by GPs in Germany as a first choice rather than ADs. Yes it does need monitoring but at least you can stop when you want rather than having to taper.
How many of us gave our kids vitamins when they were small, lots of us I'm sure and on the advice of a health professional.
We don't have a perfect diet so most of us need a little topping up with a multi Vit.
I don't suffer from any placebo effect, neither do I think they are pointless placebos. My general improvement in certain conditions prove that they are not pointless.
I find it quite offensive to be told this to be honest.
We are all entitled to our opinions and if some of us choose to supplement things with alternatives then so be it.....we are not telling anyone not to use HRT....are we !!!!!
Honeybun
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honeybun - I'm sorry if you feel this thread has offended - that was not my intention. I do take vitamins as I know I'm better with them - particularly Vitamin D. I'm a big fan of Omega oils as well. I recently tried the Krill oil version as my joints were aching quite a bit, this is a bigger dose of Omegas than the one I was previously taking and my joints have been a lot better.
SJW has been extensively researched and is known to be beneficial but still needs to be taken with caution.
I have paid out so much money over the years on remedies and alternative treatments with very little benefit I just wanted to find out how others felt about these options and whether it was worth it. As always on this site, there are very differing views.
I'm afraid many women are firmly told by their GPs that HRT is too dangerous and sent away to 'ride the storm' because it's 'NATURAL'
Maybe we need to look at what 'NATURAL' actually means these days? DG x
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I don't find the thread offensive at all DG.
I think it's a valid discussion, but I do object to being told I'm wasting my money on pointless treatements for nothing more than a placebo effect.
Now that is just wrong.
None of us have the right to make such a sweeping statement.
We have to respect others choices.
Honeybun
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Wow! There are some strong opinions on this topic!
I'm sure people just buy into the romantic ideal that their herbalist/homeopath gets up on a summer's dawn to hand pick wild herbs and flowers growing free in the hedgerows, before carefully distilling them down into magical potions ::)
Instead, of course, these alternative practitioners source their pills and potions from the cheapest supplier, who is entirely unregulated and selling products that haven't been scientifically tested or analysed in anyway. It's dangerous and delusional.
I feel this is a bit 'sweeping'. I am sure there are lots of people who have romantic, fluffy ideas about herbalism, but also many knowledgeable people who know what they are doing. I am concerned by people who 'play around' with natural remedies, and by the way it is so unregulated, so that desperate people can be fooled, or worse, harmed, by unscrupulous 'practitioners'. But that doesn't mean anyone who uses herbalism is dangerous or delusional!!!
I have had more success treating my psoriasis with herbal preparations than with the steroid creams prescribed by my doctor. I've also treated other minor medical problems herbally. There are many herbal remedies that have not been scientifically tested, so it is not possible to say if the beneficial effects are placebo or not! When it comes to the menopause, natural remedies are not going to provide the protection that HRT will give, but if women are unable to access HRT, then natural remedies are all they have to work with. For a while, I was limited to natural remedies as my previous GP wouldn't believe I was perimenopausal, and they are a lot better than nothing!
My biggest worry is the way so many people equate 'natural' with 'safe'. And how people take things without researching the effects first. I once read a horrific little booklet which recommended 'herbal teas' made from 'any herb' to ease morning sickness. No mention of the herbs that can cause miscarriage if consumed during pregnancy...
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I'm with HB on Jan de Vries. I have used him in the past and found him very good. I have also used another homeopathic doctor(also practises as a NHS gp) locally for migraine help and it was magic. But I do agree that we need to be careful no matter what we take and do a bit of research first.
Bramble
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Yes I worry. I worry very much.
Millions of pounds every year is spent on 'natural' remedies which have not been proven in any way whatsoever. Often these natural remedies cost 3-4 times more than a NHS prescription.
I will never understand why people waste their money on these bogus medicines. Their effect is entirely psychosomatic. A world authority on alternative medicine and lecturer based at Exeter University (can't remember his name for the moment) spent years conducting an investigative study which showed that only Black Cohosh and St John's Wort had some SLIGHT benefits. All the rest were just pointless placebos.
I'm sure people just buy into the romantic ideal that their herbalist/homeopath gets up on a summer's dawn to hand pick wild herbs and flowers growing free in the hedgerows, before carefully distilling them down into magical potions ::)
Instead, of course, these alternative practitioners source their pills and potions from the cheapest supplier, who is entirely unregulated and selling products that haven't been scientifically tested or analysed in anyway. It's dangerous and delusional.
Yes, people had to make do with herbs and home grown medicinal remedies for thousands of years. And that's why mortality rates were so incredibly high until the advent of modern medicine. People back in medieval times, suffering with God knows what illnesses and ailments, would have thanked their lucky stars to have access to the drugs we have nowadays. They'd have sprinted out of their local hedgewitches' hovel or apothecary's shop faster than you could blink to get their hands on modern medicine.
Yet, ironically we now have millions of people keen to try tinctures and pills that were doing the rounds 800 years ago. They didn't work back then and they don't work now.
AS much as Id hate to disagree with you sadly your right
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overnight I have been thinking about this placebo question and just want to add my 2 pennyworth for the sake of the discussion.
If something gives a placebo effect, ie a psychological improvement, does that really matter if the user is getting relief from whatever troubles them? It is not going to be considered a waste of money for them if they feel better.
I use a magnetic collar on my dog for his spondylosis in his spine. Within a few days of putting it on his mobility was easier and it has stayed that way. A couple of people told me it was a placebo effect but how can that be? He doesn't know he is wearing a magnet! Someone else said he is more relaxed because I am more relaxed (a word I would never use about myself ::)) but I only felt better for him after I saw improvement.
Anyway that's beside the point. If something makes us feel psychologically better then it is not a waste of time or money in my opinion.
Valerian is another thing I occasionally use, for myself and also for my dog because we are both stress heads, and it helps :) I think so long as the product has the THR endorsement and your doctor knows you are using it then there is little to get alarmed about. :)
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Yes, there is definitely room for natural remedies. I decided to stop taking Menopace tablets for a while and after a couple of weeks, my mood was deteriorating on a daily basis, to the point where I know I was becoming difficult to live with. I went back to Menopace and within a very short time, I was my old self again.
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I think Brightlight actually expressed things very well and I'm pleased to hear that many of you are agreeing that herbs and remedies should be approached with caution. Herbs etc. have some strong properties that can do good but also harm. I just wanted to highlight this - just because something comes from 'Nature' it isn't necessarily 'SAFE'. Thanks for all your input ladies. DG x
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Nor is it necessarily unsafe....... :-\
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Well said Dulciana.
Alternative medicine covers such a wide range of things from massage to acupuncture. It simply cannot be dismissed.
Of course taking too much of anything is not advised. Doctors are good at overprescribing. It's usually a pharmacist that picks up on drug interactions.
The overuse of medicines is causing concern. People want a pill for everything whereas if we took a more holistic approach perhaps problems would not arrise quite so often.
Honeyb
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Not sure on the overuse of drugs aspect of doctors.
Personally I've seen doc's give someone a prescription then fail to review them regularly within my own family.
Either due to lack of time, resource, will etc.
This is based on direct experience.
From my own family I'm the only one that receives a regular reminder to return for the regular HRT inquisition :)
Others in my family just continue to take their drugs and these get added to as they get older.
I have a relation who is on a drug thats for "short" usage (weeks) duration only and they've been on this drug without review for years!!!
If anything they under use HRT options and then options start to diminish as there is no call for that option.
When things get more popular we're then faced with shortages or worse.
For example, the Ladies dose testosterone is a good example of this situation.
We had an option out there to help alleviate libido issues amongst other issues.
Doc's ignored the option and a few years ago it was taken off the market as it was not being prescribed.
Now we have to beg for off licence mens products which is just stupid.
We also see loss of progesterone options at certain dosages. Again due to a lack of prescribing in the community.
Use it or lose it someone else said on the forum a few times.
In terms of the "non-hormone" or herbal/naturale route I think some should perhaps be following some of the ongoing issues in that area.
That might open some eyes on the forum to whats going on out there.
The following example shows that they are adding a drug that was shown to have severe heart and stroke side effects to a herbal remedy (probably because the herb did not work and they want to ensure people come back and buy more!).
http://www.hindawi.com/journals/criem/2015/213874/
Studies have also found that often the labels and the contents don't match. There is often contamination with cheaper alternatives or totally different plant species.
http://www.bmj.com/content/347/bmj.f6138
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12867165
http://edzardernst.com/2013/01/contamination-and-adulteration-of-herbal-remedies/
To quote "the most commonly found contaminants were dust, pollen, insects, rodents, parasites, microbes, fungi, mould, pesticides, and heavy metals. The adulterants invariably were prescription drugs such as steroids, anti-diabetic medications etc."
Even the WHO have tried to put forward guidelines to improve this.
http://apps.who.int/medicinedocs/documents/s14878e/s14878e.pdf
The heavy metals in a lot of these items has been well known for years.
I'm pretty darn sure my HRT is heavy metal free and free from some of these unsavory items above.
Is it not bad enough that we are confused by closely monitored and controlled drugs that our docs are relucant to prescribed to us.
Why give hope to solutions that may or may not be what they say they are.
We all need to see things clearly and stop wrapping things up in warm sentiment of the "natural" solution.
I understand some want this and need help from it.
I'm sure most of us have no problem with that. I've no problem what others want to take :)
I just dearly hope that they are aware of all the aspects of their own non-hormone/herbal choices in the same we are not allowed to forgot when using HRT.
:o ???
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Overuse of drugs by doctors......antibiotics :o
Honeybun
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Perhaps these links balance things out a little
http://www.menopausematters.co.uk/othertechs.phpw
http://www.menopausematters.co.uk/remedies.php
http://www.menopausematters.co.uk/phytoestrogens.php
There are two sides to every story.
Hopefully these might help just a little
Honeybun
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Nowt wrong with the placebo effect! Sometimes it is because the sufferer is being listened to, that may be enough to begin a healing process. If you really want to know if a suggested herbal remedy or if there is enough research in a medication, then browse Ben Goldacre, he has been nagging away at various suggestions for years, putting his own money into his own research to get results! ;)
I tried to get help years++ ago by visiting a Chinese alternative therapist - he was a GP who had spent years in China as he had an interest in other healing preparations, however, when he couldn't tell me why I couldn't drink coffee or use peppermint with what he sold me, I felt suspicious. I paid for the Consultant, I found him very interesting and had I not been so ill I may well have talked more with him ………. whether the stuff he sold me did any good: or not: I can't remember.
'natural' doesn't mean 'safe' : arsenic is 'natural' ;)
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The placebo effect is a fascinating topic.
Psychological attitude has a huge part to play in our health I think. I was recently involved in making a song with a choir for a singer who has been diagnosed with stage IV breast cancer. Non curable but treatable. The prognosis depends on various factors and one of them is patient attitude and mindset.
Thank you Dancing Girl
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My personal opinion is that a lot of these so-called natural remedies are a waste of money. That's not to say that for some people they may work. It's just that for me they never have.
I spent a fortune (roughly $3000) going to a naturopath to be treated "naturally" for menopause, and after 3 months my symptoms were actually far worse. She simply dismissed it as me being a "tough case", and I would need to spend another 3 months (plus another $3000 presumably) for my problems to be solved. Meanwhile, my "tough case" was solved pretty quickly as soon as I got on to proper hormone treatment.
What people need to remember is that these "natural" treatments really aren't that natural. They are made in labs and they may contain various unknown and untested ingredients, and there is little regulation. That's not really what I would call natural. Certainly prescribed medicines are also made in labs, but at least they have very stringent regulations and quality standards applied to them.
Also, just because something is a prescribed medicine, doesn't mean it doesn't come from a "natural" source. Similarly, just because something is deemed natural doesn't mean it is automatically safe to consume.
I will add that I don't have an issue with anyone who choses to use alternative or natural remedies, or disbelieve anyone who sees genuine benefits. I personally use supplements like Vit D and Omega etc, but I always get a bit concerned when I see people advocating "natural" at the expense of tried and tested prescription meds.
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I view the (ultra-low dose) HRT that I take as pretty much 'natural' - from what I've read, the Estraderm patch and Utrogestan are plant and soy derived.
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If something gives a placebo effect, ie a psychological improvement, does that really matter if the user is getting relief from whatever troubles them? It is not going to be considered a waste of money for them if they feel better.
If something works, I don't think it matters if is it is a placebo effect, it works.
I seem to remember reading something that the "placebo" effect is like a trained response of the body. If you expect something to happen, the brain alters the body chemistry to make it happen, think, Pavlovs's dog. Another thing, is that it is possible for people to can control their heartbeat (to varying degrees) by thought, skilled yoga exponents are very good at it.
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So many misunderstandings around this topic and Dancing Girls initial thoughts to be wary are right I think.
Natural medicine isn't just an assumption that the ingredients are natural, or in some way harmless. Using 'natural' medicine is as much about the approach to health being holistic. The approach to treat the whole body, for instance a naturopath might treat the liver or gut with high estrogen to progesterone ratio so that estrogen is flushed from the body more readily. Accupuncture might stimulate the pituitary gland to aid balance.
Bearing this in mind it makes even more sense to stop expecting an over the counter herbal preparation to cure all ills and seeking a professional might be more effective. But it will never be as direct as HRT which is, in simple terms the addition of hormones. The two approaches are completely different.
One thing that 'natural' medicine adheres too is that minimal dose should be used to stimulate the body to achieve balance, I've read a lot that HRT should be used this way too , minimal dose to achieve results.
Natural medicine for menopause is, I believe quite complicated and if an over the counter remedy doesn't work, then a professional should be sort for stronger and more personalised treatment.
Both approaches are valid and as time goes on, integration of the best of 'natural' and pharmaceutical treatment will no doubt increase. No fear needed in my opinion, just education on the uses and potential dangers of any medicine.
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Good post Brightlight - thank you. DG x
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My problem is that I forget to take any Vit. Supplements etc. ::)
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If only there was a supplement that would improve our memories, we'd ALL be taking it :)
Though how to remember taking it in the first place is another matter... ;)
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Ginkgo Biloba is supposed to be very good for memory issues are fish oils.
Honeybun
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Or where I've put the canister ……….
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I take fish oils - I use a brand called Eskimo which is expensive but is very high quality. I was reading a book called Unstuck by James Gordon recently and he sites a lot of medical papers which back up the use of fish oils as a good supplement for depression (along with exercise and a few other things).
Another book I read recently was Healing without Freud or Prozac by David Servan-Schreiber and he also cites fish oils and the research around them.
I'm open to taking traditional Western medication as well as alternative treatments but what I wish is that the Western model of treatment would treat people holistically with respect to emotional, mental and hormonal issues ... of course that would cost a lot more in time and money than a Dr doling out a drug prescription in the 10 minutes that are allotted to patients but in the long run, I think it would be much more effective to treat people in other ways as well as with drugs. For example, I recently found out that in Finland they rarely use drugs to treat people with severe psychosis - they use talking and support instead and it's just as effective but it costs more - whereas the UK and North American models for such illnesses are primarily drugs.
When I ended ITalk recently - because I'm now seeing a nice but private and expensive therapist - I pointed out to the ITalk lady that while ITalk was free, in the 20 minutes I got to talk to the counsellor on the phone, I spent 10 minutes doing rating scales and I only got these appointments every 2 weeks. If I wanted to see somebody via ITalk there was a 3 month wait list (which I was told was better than it used to be). But I also made the point that it's difficult to get well when you're worried about being homeless and making ends meet ....if they just invested in decent social housing in the UK and made sure everyone had enough of a basic income to cover buying and eating healthy food then I'm sure that an awful lot of the health and emotional issues people experience would decrease ... which would save money all round with respect to the cost of medical treatments and psychological treatments.
My therapist made an interesting point to me recently ... she said menopause is a natural process ...at which point I started to feel my hackles go up (thinking that here is someone who has not suffered a bad menopause experience!) ... but then she went on to say that my body was just doing what it needed to do and when as a culture we lived on the earth in a way that followed the earth's rhythms it wouldn't have been an issue but the problem is that we no longer honour the rhythms of the earth in the way that we live - instead the earth has been commodified. So the issue then becomes how does one manage one's menopause when you have to deal with the demands of the economic system that you live in - which doesn't allow for feeling ill, taking time out from work etc - because the focus in our culture is on constant production, growth and making money ..
Not sure whether these points are relevant but just thought I'd put them in ... in the past i've paid for acupuncture (which has helped), massage (which has helped) and I pay to go to a sports centre for exercise classes (which has helped) ... but I wish these things were freely available to everyone rather than being based on whether people can afford such things.
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I agree! We are so tied into the alarm clock; in having to please others; in having to be at work by a certain time …… that the ethic of going to bed at dusk and up with the dawn have long gone. Plus we are now a World Wide environment ::).
Since DH retired several years ago I sleep better than I ever did - because I don't have 1 ear on that alarm clock, we don't have to get out of bed until we have slept 'enough' and we don't have to keep pleasing others ;)
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The reason I believe in Omega Oils is because many years ago I attended a conference given by a charity that helps children with communication difficulties. My son has Semantic/Pragmatic Disorder and is loosely on the autistic spectrum and his language development was and still is slightly impaired. At this conference there was a talk given by a scientist from Oxford University who had done some extensive research into Omega oils. She had found some old research done some 20 or so years earlier in America - this research hadn't been continued, probably because there wasn't any money in it for the drug companies. Anyway, without going into details, the trial they had done showed really dramatic improvement in behaviour and a range of other aspects that many children have difficulties with. The controlled trial involved a normal class of children, half were given Omega oil supplements and the other half a placebo. The parents of the children who were on the Omega oils were quickly reporting improvements in their children's behaviour, sleep and learning abilities. The benefits were so positive that the parents whose children clearly weren't on these oils started to demand to know whether their children were getting the placebo and if so could they please have these supplements for their kids.
After hearing this talk I put both my children on Omega oil supplements every day - I certainly noticed significant improvement in both of them. Shortly after this I noticed that many other highly eminent medical professionals also advocating the use of Omega oils and this has led to so many food stuffs having added Omega oils.
I don't consider taking Omega oils as a 'Natural remedy' supplement but I see it as just adding a vital aspect of my diet that I'm lacking - I'm afraid I hate eating fish!!!! I do make sure I get the best quality supplement though and recently I have been taking Krill oil which seems to be great - my joints have definitely been better.
I often wonder if my son might not have had his problems if I had taken Omega oils while I was pregnant. :-\
DG x
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DG don't beat yourself up re: whether you should have taken fish oils while pregnant - I'm sure if we all knew we could prevent something happening, we would do everything we could to make sure that it didn't happen ...
The books I read about the value of fish oils with respect to depression made the point that unfortunately there isn't any big money in it for drug companies which is why things like fish oil get overlooked but that there is really good research out there showing that these supplements make a difference.
Mind you I wish they weren't so expensive - I take Eskimo 3 Advanced EPA - but, until I saw a nutritionist recently I didn't know that not all fish oils have the same high levels of EPA - and this was the one she recommended.
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I agree with the points made that we are not designed for 21st century living. I was only thinking about it this morning when watching a programme involving Sir David Attenborough about how we need to harness the resources the world gives us and stop destroying things and replacing them with unnatural commodities (but that's a totally different discussion). Anyway I started thinking along the lines that Greenfields made, so it is interesting to log in this morning and read her comments.
when as a culture we lived on the earth in a way that followed the earth's rhythms it wouldn't have been an issue but the problem is that we no longer honour the rhythms of the earth in the way that we live - instead the earth has been commodified. So the issue then becomes how does one manage one's menopause when you have to deal with the demands of the economic system that you live in - which doesn't allow for feeling ill, taking time out from work etc - because the focus in our culture is on constant production, growth and making money ..
Also CLKD's reply
I agree! We are so tied into the alarm clock; in having to please others; in having to be at work by a certain time …… that the ethic of going to bed at dusk and up with the dawn have long gone.
By the way does anyone think Glucosamine is helpful for joints, what is the thinking on that?
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By the way does anyone think Glucosamine is helpful for joints, what is the thinking on that?
OH had been having knee problems (meniscus). The surgeon he saw recommended Physiotherapy and Glucosamine to see if the problem could be sorted without the need for surgery. The Glucosamine did appear to help but OH had to stop using it as the type he was using was derived from shellfish and he's allergic to shellfish in large doses.
I know of several people who find Glucosamine very helpful for joint problems.
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Thank you for replying so swiftly. My husband also has knee problems and I have a family history of arthritis.
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Might be worth a go.
Sadly, I've no idea as to what doses are required.
But I'me sure google or your local health food shop will be able to help.
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It won't do any harm. As long as you don't start burping fish oil breath ;)
I tried my cats on cod liver oil, they turned up their noses :-X
As long as the body excretes any excess then the body will 'use' what it requires. There are certain 'additives' that the body doesn't get rid of but meno-brain and after a long journey I can't remember :D