Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: GypsyRoseLee on June 20, 2015, 11:06:51 AM
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Was chatting to a female GP at work yesterday. She is 59 and has been on HRT for years and intends to never come off.
She pointed out that women simply were not designed to live without nice levels of oestrogen. Up until 100 years ago very few women would even live to go through the menopause, as the vast majority of women were dead well before they turned 50. She said that going through menopause was the OPPOSITE of 'a natural process'. It's UNNATURAL, because we just weren't designed to do it.
The NATURAL process was for women to start having babies in their mid teens. They would pop out lots of babies. Then their bodies would be worn out and they would be dead by the time they were about 40. This is what we have been genetically engineered to do. So all this airy fairy nonsense about menopause being a natural process which we should embrace and accept is frankly a crock of poo :o
She said the fact that most women 'settle down' hormonally, eventually, after the menopause was really neither here nor there. It was just pure luck. Women were never designed to be post menopausal in the first place.
She said that expecting women to go through the menopause without oestrogen, and to live a further 30-40 years without oestrogen was just bizarre. She pointed out that expecting women to do this would be like expecting men to have their testicles cut off at 45 and to live without testosterone for the rest of their lives.
She wondered how well men would cope ;D
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Well I agree with the latter statement ;D ……….. if it were even suggested :o ::)
However, if we weren't 'designed' to go into menopause then why do we? Surely periods would stop and that would be that :-\ no other symptoms ……...
Both my Grandmas lived until they were mid-80s (died in the 1980s): both had several children: and my Great-Grans into their 70s. I think your GP is probably correct about the lower and working classes not living to a 'great' age as they would be worn out with child-bearing, hard house work, probably doing several jobs to keep food on the table …….. and it is known that women would have the 'vapours' or take to their beds feeling ill without really knowing why and without any sympathy from others. I don't know how either Grans went through meno.. :-\ it wasn't talked about.
It's OK for the GP to tell you that she 'intends to never come off' as she can reach for the Prescription pad as necessary - does she accept that there are 'guidelines' and hopefully she will ignore these, both for herself and her patients ;)
Could she start a Menopause Clinic ? ;)
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I think it's to do with the fact that our periods are part of the monthly cycle that's triggered by egg release and hormonal feedback. When our ovaries / stock of eggs start to fail in our forties the hormone levels go haywire and the symptoms of menopause are the result. I think our periods stopping is a by-product of the failure of the hormone cycle and the cessation of periods is inevitably linked to hormonal chaos and menopause symptoms. As GRL's GP says, women frequently died in childbirth (regardless of class) or from living a tough life before they got to our stage of life. But if we're short of a hormone we should be given it, just as someone who is short of insulin, thyroxine etc is. And if we need it for ever so be it.
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However, if we weren't 'designed' to go into menopause then why do we? Surely periods would stop and that would be that :-\ no other symptoms ……...
Er - I think till 100 years ago it's fair to say that women were always pregnant, they never had menstrual cycles, just kept popping out babies. As GRLs GP friend said, women were usually dead before they reached 50, they never lived long enough for periods to stop, i.e. reach menopause.
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The only good thing that I gained from my gynae appt a few weeks ago was that if its my wishes to forever stay on hrt, I can (now I just need to find one that'll take all my symptoms away!)
Annie xx
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Surprisingly : when watching the various 'who do you think U R'-type programmes shows that women did survive beyond 60 ………… but how their quality of Life was is rarely mentioned. My family and the one which I married into have longevity, years back.
I agree Freda: if someone requires a boost then what's the problem with the medical profession recognising that hormone adjustment can improve Life all round? Litigation?
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The only good thing that I gained from my gynae appt a few weeks ago was that if its my wishes to forever stay on hrt, I can (now I just need to find one that'll take all my symptoms away!)
Annie xx
At least if you find one that suits Annie, you'll be able to stay on it!
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Surprisingly : when watching the various 'who do you think U R'-type programmes shows that women did survive beyond 60 ………… but how their quality of Life was is rarely mentioned. My family and the one which I married into have longevity, years back.
See what you mean CLKD.
At least now more Drs are thinking about the quality of life for women.
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I think women are trained to shut up and put up >:(
Me, I'm great at having a Very Good Moan. Also, if I don't get a 'good' response from my GP I wait a week then go back for more discussions …….
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if we're short of a hormone we should be given it, just as someone who is short of insulin, thyroxine etc is. And if we need it for ever so be it.
I wonder if it could be becuase if you do not take insulin or thyroxine, if you have diabetes or hypothyroidism, you would eventually die. As far as I can tell lacking oestrogen will not kill you so some GPs are reluctant to add it to the practice budget.
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There is probably a lot of truth there Babyjane - but depression can be fatal so GPs should take on board the anxiety and depression that ladies of a 'certain' age suffer with, also GPs need to recognise that meno-symptoms can begin when they like, not when GPs think they ought to start >:( ::)
Also, it is more recognised that many women need to give up work as it gets too much …… so if GPs were more knowledgeable?
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I tend to think it's evolution and we don't always know why things adapt the way they do, it's interesting. We are the only mammals that speed up egg production and eventually run out - so there must be a reason for this.
This Wiki article is interesting : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandmother_hypothesis
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I whole heartedly agree with your post GRL,
and we actually weren't designed to have periods also , they serve no real purpose and DR Currie makes that point. I bet if this menopause business was the same for men and it involved things like their dangly bits atrophying and tearing , anxiety , night sweats and the rest HRT would be an NHS/ medical priority and all forms of HRT given free like the pill.
Peppermintyxx
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:-\ - how wasn't I designed to suffer periods ………
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Interesting thread!
Your GP is quite wrong though GypsyRoseLee... she doesn't understand natural selection nor genetics!
The distinction should be made between life expectancy and life-span. There is a stuff written about this which you can google! CLKD is right. I wouldn't use the word "designed" as that implies a higher power at work (!) but as BrightLight said it's all about evolution and natural selection.
Our life-span is the average age a woman can live to - without other intervening factors like disease etc. As far as I remember from what I read a while back, our potential life-span has not changed much (if at all) over the same time period that our life expectancy has changed a great deal. The GP is is right about survival and death (life-expectancy). However it doesn't alter the fact that women have evolved (genetically) to have a period of time in post-menopause. The grandmother hypothesis is one explanation for why this is so.
We are absolutely not genetically engineered to die at 40 (life-span)! That is absolute rubbish! What she is meaning which is true that because our life-expectancy has inreased dramatically due to modern medicine we do now on average live to our allotted life-span which (itself may be increasing) - which means yes maybe a third of our life or more in menopause.
It is most definitely a natural process - but that doesn't mean we should suffer because of it! The main problem with any changes that happen after reproductive age is that natural selection cannnot operate (by which I mean that any genes which confer some sort of advantage due not prefentially survive to the next generation). One thing is certain that we are not genetically programmed to die as soon as we have finished reproducing. As well as the grandmother hypothesis you could argue that because of the dependence of human infants on their mothers for survival, more children will survivie to the next generation (and pass on their genes) if their mothers stay alive long enough to be able to rear them to maturity and independence. Using that argument I would expect in the very long (evolutionary) term (thousands of years?) that there should be less of a difference between menopause and death - say 15 or 16 years or up to 18. The fact that there is a disparity is because medicine etc is artificially increasing our life expectancy so that natural selection maybe will not operate in quite the same way. Anyway, of course, the evolution of menopause and reproduction and lifespan does not operate in isolation so other factors affecting our survival, and other aspects of ageing etc come into play.
Oh that was a bit of a ramble...
The main point aside from all that (that GypsyRosLee's GP was making) - our bodies do suffer and deteriorate from lack of oestrogen and I agree that it is bizarre to expect us to live 30-40 years without it ( due to our increased life-expectancy). As for hypothyroidism - many people who are given thyroxine will not have the condition anywehere near severe enough to die from it - under general NHS principles it is given when TSH falls outside the "normal" range (I'm not talking here about people who have no thryoid hormone production at all just as some people have no insulin). However it does improve quality of life enormously for those who take it, in the same way that oestrogen does. :)
Hurdity x
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As years go in we live longer, but how about Queen Victoria, she lived to a grand old age. The very poor did not but others most definitely did.
I really think that if men had the same issues as we did things would be the same. What else can we have except HRT, there is nothing else.
Why not feel lucky that we live longer, would any of us rather be dead than be going through meno because that's the choice.
Sorry but I think the GP was talking complete nonsense. How in any way was that helpful. Support and suggestions yes, that comment....no, not helpful at all.
Honeybun
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Your GP is quite wrong though GypsyRoseLee... she doesn't understand natural selection nor genetics!
We are absolutely not genetically engineered to die at 40 (life-span)! That is absolute rubbish! What she is meaning which is true that because our life-expectancy has inreased dramatically due to modern medicine we do now on average live to our allotted life-span which (itself may be increasing) - which means yes maybe a third of our life or more in menopause.
Hurdity - It seems a bit patronising to criticise a GP or (anybody else really) for not understanding natural selection or genetics.
The purpose of genes, is to further the survival of the gene, i.e. once those genes have reproduced, their work is complete.
Once a woman has had 2/3/4 or more kids the genes have done their bit, there is no further need for a breeding machine (woman), Perhaps that is where GypseyRoseLee's GP was coming from?
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I think there are valid points all round. It's an interesting subject and only in 100 years, looking back, will where we are now be any clearer ::)
I thought of something to write and it's gone from my brain >:( …… yep, it's back - the medical profession interrupts natural selection from the day we are born but at end of Life they tend to do what they are trained to do: that is - save people - rather than letting Nature take over: i.e. ABs for people with chest infections who are already failing. Interesting story about a lady in the Sat. paper this morning and again can't remember the ladies name >:( so will shut up now and take a look at the article ::)
My periods started too early for my liking and I hated it. It wasn't talked about, neither was the menopause …. and I don't think I would be raising the subject with my grannies even at my age ;)
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The menopause may be a natural process but I'm sure in the past a women's life expectancy could have been determined by how severe her menopausal symptoms were. Some women were subjected to some horrific treatments, put into asylums or simply remained semi invalid when they reached their late 40s/early 50s. If you were rich then you could languish on a sofa and be waited on hand, foot and finger. If you were poor and had to keep working then the lack of sleep and other meno symptoms would very possibly have caused an early death.
In Pride and Prejudice - Mrs. Bennett suffered terribly with palpitations/nerves and had to take to her bed!!!
As we now live longer, appropriate treatment to prevent the damage oestrogen deficiency inflicts on our bodies should be treated - the benefits and savings for society and the NHS could be great.
DG x
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if we're short of a hormone we should be given it, just as someone who is short of insulin, thyroxine etc is. And if we need it for ever so be it.
I wonder if it could be becuase if you do not take insulin or thyroxine, if you have diabetes or hypothyroidism, you would eventually die. As far as I can tell lacking oestrogen will not kill you so some GPs are reluctant to add it to the practice budget.
Lacking estrogen can most certainly cause severe bone and heart issues, especially if you have a deficiency in your younger years. The endocrinologist I saw, aged 42, (me, not him) said I needed 'immediate' estrogen to protect my heart, or else risk serious problems. Taking this to its extreme, I suspect it - serious heart problems - could actually kill you.
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Really interesting post ladies. I personally will carry on taking hrt as long as the nhs will let me and the day they won't I will go private and get it that way. What price quality of life I say, you get one life and I want it to be as good as it can possibly be.
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I think a large part of the problem here is that females evolved bit by bit over many many years and we just ended up with what we struggle with today - there was no grand master plan just a series of less-than-ideal outcomes (a pelvis that's too small for uncomplicated delivery for instance). Of course it's "natural", so's bronchitis, crappy eyesight, toothache, etc etc but that doesn't mean we should suffer with any of these things. I can't be doing with the "you shouldn't go against nature" brigade. What bollocks! We are what we are because of genetics / evolution / nature, call it what you want. But we live long enough to suffer menopause because of modern medicine, particularly obstetrics and contraception. Tough though menopause is for many of us it beats being dead which so many women of our age would have been only a century ago. We just need to do what we need to to get through it and support each other when it all seems too crappy for words.
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Survival of the fittest? well I weighed in earlier than expected ::) so NHS stepped in and saved me :-\ :D Then I fell badly. Again NHS was there, etc. etc. etc.. I agree Freda, good post :)
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I found this interesting http://theconversation.com/explainer-why-do-women-go-through-menopause-14820 - doesn't solve the problem though.
Taz x
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Why not feel lucky that we live longer, would any of us rather be dead than be going through meno because that's the choice.
Depends on how bad it is. I've often gone to bed hoping I won't wake up in the morning because I've felt so bad.
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I think a large part of the problem here is that females evolved bit by bit over many many years and we just ended up with what we struggle with today - there was no grand master plan just a series of less-than-ideal outcomes (a pelvis that's too small for uncomplicated delivery for instance). Of course it's "natural", so's bronchitis, crappy eyesight, toothache, etc etc but that doesn't mean we should suffer with any of these things. I can't be doing with the "you shouldn't go against nature" brigade. What bollocks! We are what we are because of genetics / evolution / nature, call it what you want. But we live long enough to suffer menopause because of modern medicine, particularly obstetrics and contraception. Tough though menopause is for many of us it beats being dead which so many women of our age would have been only a century ago. We just need to do what we need to to get through it and support each other when it all seems too crappy for words.
Good post Freda - Thanks
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I can remember my mum from around the age of 65 saying "Getting older's rubbish but the alternative's not any better"
Taz x
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My opinion is that diabetes and hypothyroidism bring exemption from prescription charges because a diabetic coma or myxoedema coma would be life threatening if the insulin or thyroxine was not taken. When I was diagnosed my blood count was just under 6 and I was on the verge of needing a blood transfusion because I had been undiagnosed for at least 2 years. If this had not been diagnosed and treated I could have suffered a cardiac arrest as a result. As far as I know, and correct me if I am wrong, HRT does not give exemption from prescription charges as the lack of it is not automatically life threatening.
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You are absolutely right babyjane. If we are on combined HRT then we pay a double prescription charge and some HRT preparations are cheaper than the prescription charge!!!! Lack of oestrogen is not life threatening, however, it can certainly be life limiting and the consequences of oestrogen deficiency, particularly if you have an early menopause, can cause many health issues in the longer term. Osteoporosis is costing the NHS a lot of money and this can be reduced with appropriate treatment and HRT, even for 5 years in post meno, can make a significant difference in the long term health of our bones. Many women have to give up work because they can't cope with menopause symptoms and this is costing society - we are now expected to work till we are 66 and beyond and the more people working the more we are paying into the system and this benefits us all.
There is a slow realisation that, though the menopause is 'natural', it does effect many women (we're talking well over 50%) in a very negative way and I think it always has - it's just that there is now help and treatments and many GPs are not giving this help. Women are getting more clued up thanks to sites like MM and becoming more assertive about asking for appropriate treatment. There is still a long way to go and women and the GPs need a lot more education. I'd like to think things will be much better for my daughter when her time comes.
DG x
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I'd like to think that GPs will have more Conference-like situations purely to discuss menopause ……. sharing what patients tell them rather than ignoring the very real needs as we move through this time of Life! and realise that it can begin earlier than many GPs: and ladies: realise!
That way Practice Budgets won't be 'wasted' on fobbing off un-suitable Prescriptions!
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Ckld is so right here about unsuitable prescriptions. I was 'fobbed off' with HRT and anti depressants unnecessarily 13 years ago when I did not need either, in order to get me out of the consulting room in my allotted 10 minutes instead of the doctor listening to me and finding out the real problem. Being labelled in my notes as being a depressive when I wasn't meant I was not diagnosed properly for another 2 and a half years when I had to pay privately for a specialist who wrote to my GP in no uncertain terms that I was neither clinically depressed nor menopausal at that point.
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Bed-side manner can't be taught ::)! 10 min appts. are Government 'guide-lines' - since when have non-medical people know what happens behind the Surgery doors :bang: :bang: :bang:
When a patient is vulnerable it isn't easy to ask for what we need.
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I now make a double appointment if I need to talk through something.
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I whole heartedly agree with your post GRL,
and we actually weren't designed to have periods also , they serve no real purpose and DR Currie makes that point. I bet if this menopause business was the same for men and it involved things like their dangly bits atrophying and tearing , anxiety , night sweats and the rest HRT would be an NHS/ medical priority and all forms of HRT given free like the pill.
Peppermintyxx
I found the same idea in a book written by Malcolm Gladwell, can't remember the title. He mentioned a study on an African tribe where women had menstruation only a couple of times every 2-3 years because they were either pregnant or breastfeeding. Menstruation was an odd event for these women.
Anyway I am taking progesterone (Utrogestan) continuously along estradiol (Oestrogel) five days a week, two days stop, to avoid bleeding. I intend to take this combo for my entire life if possibly. Suffice to say I don't have any menopausal trouble although postmenopausal (57 years old).
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I do that too. Our Practice is accommodating.
Would be nice if GRLee's GP got a menopause conference 'going' so that ladies can discuss ;). Maybe if GPs started such groups, like a stone in a puddle, information would spread out for everyone's benefit!
:welcomemm: Dacia Felix - I wonder at what age these girls were marrying/pregnant? Also the pre-school age death rate in these countries? Every day is a learning curve ;)
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I wonder too how much the pill and all the hormones that are /were given to animals may have further disrupted our hormone systems, fertilisers etc, etc, plus suspect a lot of this was never talked about , its not exactly dinner time conversation even in todays enlightened times, read somewhere that when Queen Victoria died her prolapse was down around her knees - now theres a thought
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If we could get away from calling peri/meno a "natural" process that would help a lot.
We should really call it a "wearing out" or "Age-associated loss or impairment" which would be much closer to the truth.
In all other aspects of our physiology we determine that if our functions fail and wear into our old age and this is to our loss.
Loss of function in our pancreas (type 2 diabetes) or thyroid disease are a good examples of this in other organs.
Only in respect to menopause do we encounter a widely held view that this impairment should be seen as a positive experience.
Unfortunately, without proper maintenance as in any "Age-associated impairment" we will mostly encounter an ever increasing list of chronic complaints associated.
We can wrap it up anyway we like to cushion ourselves but to ignore any loss will never help us in the long term.
It will only continue the confusion and taboo we currently see.
:-*
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Winterose - it is known that ABs etc. injected into cattle has a knock-on effect on humans as part of the food chain in the same way that nitrates in the soil and the various DDT-type poisons had on river courses and wild-life in general. It is said that oestrogen excreted is found in rivers :o
GRL - where are you ? :-\
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"As far as I can tell lacking oestrogen will not kill you"
HRT is proven to reduce the risk of Large Bowel Cancer for one example... So I think that statement is wrong.
Given that this is a particularly difficult cancer to screen for without invasive procedures then if we can help prevent it in the first place then surely thats a good thing.
:-\
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Isn't this forum great that ladies from so many diverse backgrounds can explore their options and opinions safely without fear of prejudice and judgement. I am so glad I joined :)
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"A problem shared" and "It's good to talk" spring to mind (springs? to mind?)
It's good that this particular GP at least is talking about menopause.
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Discuss and expand our understanding.
???
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Sometimes it is difficult to understand though why our bodies have suddenly let us down :-\
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"As far as I can tell lacking oestrogen will not kill you"
HRT is proven to reduce the risk of Large Bowel Cancer for one example... So I think that statement is wrong.
Given that this is a particularly difficult cancer to screen for without invasive procedures then if we can help prevent it in the first place then surely that's a good thing.
:-\
Am inclined to agree with you. Although, in the short term, you won't have the 'life or death' equivalent of what a diabetic (for example) would suffer without their medication, long term estrogen deprivation can lead to what my doctor called 'incredibly serious damage to the heart' - which, I would guess (?) could ultimately be fatal. He said, even with my family history of stoke under 50 years, and suffering from migraines, in my early 40s I would still be putting myself in more danger by not taking HRT/the pill than taking it.
I also wonder whether there's any data which links undiagnosed hormonal issues with increased suicide risk?
On a different note, does anyone know what the criteria is for whether or not a medication is paid for? For example, my dad must take several tablets a day for a heart/circulation disorder (with 'life threatening' consequences if he doesn't take them) but he had to pay for his meds until he turned 60. Perhaps it's because things like diabetes and thyroid disorders are chronic? I find it weird that on HRT I had to pay for both the oestrogen and the Utrogestan, but switching to Qlaira, I get it for free, because it's officially a CCP (even though I take it as HRT and the oestrogen in it is identical to HRT oestrogen). Cant remember if my inhalers are free or not - so long since I have needed them, but that's another example of a potentially life threatening illness for which you have to pay for meds (I do stand to be corrected on that - ages since I last needed them). Confusing!
B
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Isn't this forum great that ladies from so many diverse backgrounds can explore their options and opinions safely without fear of prejudice and judgement. I am so glad I joined :)
Absolutely. Would be lost without you guys - the reassurance, the empathy, the humour, the knowledge, the voices of reason and even the kick-up-the-bums I occasionally need (especially when I have my 'help it's not working' wobbles!). ;)
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I have to pay for my inhalers and the spacer to use them, and for my epipen
Is the bcp still free ?
Annie xx
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Hurdity - It seems a bit patronising to criticise a GP or (anybody else really) for not understanding natural selection or genetics.
Oh - I've just caught up with this thread. I must say I am offended by that personal remark - which is totally unfair :( . Not sure why you have picked on me as you will see from this thread that many of us do criticise our GPs, and precisely for the reason that they are the medical professionals who we go to see to help us, diagnose us and prescribe medication for us as appropriate, and who have studied biology and medicine to a high level and should know what they are talking about. Therefore it is their responsibility to inform and not to mislead. OK in this case it wasn't serious - and I know some GPs for example prescribe the wrong HRT - which is a more serious error, but they are not beyond criticism! I do not see that as patronising in mine nor anyone else's post. As for " or (anybody else really) - well that was unnecessary as I was clearly criticising the GP for stating something as fact to a patient that is wrong. I would not dream of saying that for example to anyone on here and I hope that is apparent from my posts as I try to be as helpful as possible without criticim, as most of us do. Negative personal remarks like this can be quite upsetting.
There were two aspects being discussed - the evolution (or genetics) of menopause and whether it is "natural" and the consequences and undesirability of being oestrogen deficient. Fortunately no-one posting on the thread disagrees that being oestrogen deficient in menopause has detrimental health consequences in many cases, and that the length of time we are in it is far longer now than it ever has been. Also that there needs to be more understanding by GPs, in this and other overlapping hormonal issues that become apparent in women at middle age and beyond - ie thyroid hormone, testosterone, and to a lesser extent insulin - as well as the various chronic fatigue conditions and syndromes that I'm sure in many cases are due to our hormone deficiencies and inefficiencies of some of our endocrine organs as we age.
Taz - interesting link there - which I skimmed through quickly! I might have mentioned the nurturing bit (or at least intended to!) which is what I am inclined to go with but I see that is also just another theory (it never can really be tested in humans).
GypsyRoseLee - we've gone off on a tangent here! Have we? However it's great to be able to discuss it and hope you are in a better place in your cycle moodwise at the moment?
Hurdity x
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Hurdity - It seems a bit patronising to criticise a GP or (anybody else really) for not understanding natural selection or genetics.
Oh - I've just caught up with this thread. I must say I am offended by that personal remark - which is totally unfair :(
Hurdity - I am sorry to have offended you, it really wasn't meant to be personal.
I just felt your comment "not understanding natural selection or genetics" seemed quite sweeping.
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Hi Hurdity
Yes my mood is still excellent thank you. I am, very tentatively, hoping HRT is finally managing to wrestle my own hormones into submission.
I have really enjoyed everyone's opinions. I think the GP I spoke to was just frustrated at the general consensus about menopause being something you just have to accept meekly. I think she was railing at the ignorance of people who don't realise what a devastating condition it can be both physically and mentally.
I do know that my hormones put me in such a dark place that I could finally understand why people take their own life because everyday life is just too frightening and wretched.
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Sorry to mention religion but the bible expects us to live for 3 score years and ten, so 70 years. If we weren't meant to have menopause our bodies would do something different as bodies are very clever.
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Well the Bible says a lot of stuff that doesn't bear close scrutiny.
History has shown that the vast majority of women didn't live longer than their 40s. Our bodies aren't clever as such. They have just evolved this way, and it's a pretty successful machine we have ended up with. But it's a machine that really needs oestrogen to function at its optimum level.
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Old grave yards will show that people have always lived to all ages. Poor sanitation and lack of evolution in medicine made for many peoples demise.
My grandma born in the 1890's lived to 90 and had 8 children. 3 of her daughters lived into late 90's.
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If 40s is just the average age then obviously there were women older than that and also women who were younger. That's why 40s was the average age.
My great grandmother lived to 93. But she was very much the exception for her generation. She had 4 siblings who died in infancy.
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As a complete aside: does anyone like visiting Graveyards whilst on holiday? Mum and I often pop in to see what the local history is likely to have been, her Dad was a Grave-digger and general tidy-upperer of the local Church. Sadly lots of headstones are worn so details are not legible but I expect that there is a grid/plan kept which would explain what was happening at that time in history.
So pleased that you are 'up' GRL :for you: long may it continue! When you next see that GP tell her we would like a menopause conference - held maybe in a Thornton's cafe ;)
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I have to pay for my inhalers and the spacer to use them, and for my epipen
Is the bcp still free ?
Annie xx
Yep, I certainly get Qlaira free - even though I am taking it as hrt rather than for contraceptive reasons. Was pleasantly surprised. I always felt aggrieved that I had to pay double for separate oestrogen and progesterone. (And don't get me started on the vat on sanitary products issue ....) . If men had ovaries, you can bet we wouldn't suffer half as much as we presently do!
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I have to pay for my inhalers and the spacer to use them, and for my epipen
Is the bcp still free ?
Annie xx
Yep, I certainly get Qlaira free - even though I am taking it as hrt rather than for contraceptive reasons. Was pleasantly surprised. I always felt aggrieved that I had to pay double for separate oestrogen and progesterone. (And don't get me started on the vat on sanitary products issue ....) . If men had ovaries, you can bet we wouldn't suffer half as much as we presently do!
I went on my hysterectomy forum for the first time in 3 years the other day, sadly it's like a ghost town but reading old threads many are on the bcp which really surprised me as it contains progesterone which I'm constantly told womb less women shouldn't have
What symptoms did you have that the pill has helped with ? I'm worried about more hair loss if I switch
Annie xx
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Very interesting posts with lots of interesting comments and opinions.
I've got a current worry about all the modern medical science and the quest for longevity. It's probably a reflection of how I am feeling at the moment and is a bit negative.
I'm worried that science is creating longevity in people but without much help for chronic medical conditions, so rather than say the last 10 years from 70 to 80 having poor quality of life it could now be 20 years from 70 to 90. I know this won't be the case for all of course.
I've have two elderly relatives suffering and I'm getting to the stage where I'm finding all the Alzheimer's awareness adverts -and LIving with Cancer, on TV draining.
Re HRT I'm still wearing my patch for good or ill at the ripe old age of 59, as still thinking it's doing more good than harm. Have thought about halving it though recently
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What i would like to know is why some women suffer more than others? Do the non sufferers have more oestrogen or are their oestrogen receptors not so sensitive ? Some of my friends have no symptoms at all and others very mild ones , some had a few months of monstrous sweats that just suddenly stopped so why are they different? Even if I cut a tiny bit off my patch i notice the difference after a week , luckily my GP is of opinion its essential as we age .
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I was talking about this with my husband only last night.
I had 2 grandmothers, one died at 93 and the other at 94. Both had lovely hair and skin and HRt had not been thought of or heard of in their generation. they probably didn't even know menopause existed. My mother died aged 81 and had a hysterectomy at 38 with no HRT afterwards. She also had beautiful skin. My mother in law was not so lucky and lived until 88 but had bad osteoporosis. However it has since been discovered that there is a genetic factor as my husband, both his brothers and our eldest son all have osteoporosis without a hormonal link.
My point? It is my opinion that HRT can be very helpful but is not the be all and end all nor is it always a cure all. Each of us must decide based on our own needs.
And yes, CLKD, both my husband and I like visiting graveyards :)
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Don't feel that you should take HRT it's a personal decision. I have a friend whose Mum was on it at the time of the big scare in 2001 and got breast cancer at the same time. As you can imagine she is anti HRT, and can't imagine why anyone would take it. However bad their meno is.What happens in our lives shapes our thoughts.
I've read this forum for some time and it seems to be unique in that it's a place women who take HRT feel safe and they can talk about it. It's one of the reasons I've used it.
Many forums are anti, this is one were you read positives on HRT so it's natural users bond together, it's somewhere they can discuss HRT things without being pressured, but that might give a skewed view to someone who doesn't take it.
I think there are lots of genetics involved in longevity, and how people's bodies and bones hold up over time, as you have demonstrated in your post.
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:thankyou: I was making a general observation from my own perspective, not singling out anyone's posts or threads. I have just noticed that sometimes in a thread, when a member makes a comment from a non HRT angle, they can get jumped on a bit harshly. But then the typed word can easily be misunderstood as you cannot gauge the tone and I can be a bit over sensitive at times.
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I agree ,when typing something one can't gauge any tones that you get from the spoken word,and sometimes we can be in a low place and take things then wrong way . We are all here because we have either suffered or are still suffering from menopause related issues and either need support or try to support others to the best of our ability. There are lots of other non menopause related topics too which are helpful and informative. The forum is called menopause matters not HRT matters and I think it does cover a wide range of things on all sides. Nothing has exactly the same effect for any of us be it herbal or HRT that is where the discussion comes in and quite rightly so. IMHO ;)
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Hi Nemesis
great post and agree with your view there.
Hi Babyjane
not sure where you seem to have been treated harshly? Was it on this post.
I certainly had commented on your quote about "lack of estrogen has never killed anyone".
But that's just back and forth discussion on the forum and a simple point which I disagreed with.
There are many studies out there and articles outlining how many (50000+) they believe have died due to not having estrogen supplemented since all the "scares" started. I hope you can understand why I pointed it out.
Diabetes 2 vs Peri/Meno
I have an older member of my family who is treated by drugs for type 2 diabetes.
They are comfortable without their drugs and won't die of the type two diabetes.
A lot of older people are forced into taking these drugs when other things cause checks to their health to occur.
Its clear though that if they don't take their meds then they open themselves up to long term chronic issues in the longer term and possibly cause life threatening issues.
The very same applies to our peri/meno and hrt. We can ignore the loss of estrogen in the same way and move onto later life with the gusto some espouse. But we will in the same way, open ourselves to chronic issues/life threatening issues in the longer term.
Part of the issue is that no one seems to associate a stigma with diabetes 2 drugs in the same way we have with HRT.
There are dangers to taking diabetes 2 drugs too.
I've never heard anyone spouting forth about the warnings on Diabetes 2 drugs but there are lots happy to do that for HRT, often with invalid or false information to make things worse.
Ultimately we can learn from what this doc and others have put forward or we can continue to ignore it. As others have said the choice is down to ourselves in the end.
:-*
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I've never heard anyone spouting forth about the warnings on Diabetes 2 drugs but there are lots happy to do that for HRT, often with invalid or false information to make things worse.
Just for you peegeetip: :)
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2011/09/07/the-risks-of-treating-diabetes-with-drugs-are-far-worse-than-the-disease.aspx (http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2011/09/07/the-risks-of-treating-diabetes-with-drugs-are-far-worse-than-the-disease.aspx)
I do get your point though - unfortunately this, alongside the danger of many other pills we're encouraged to pop, isn't publicised widely.
I do find HRT is one of those topics many friends don't broach, not because of the 'dangers' but simply because it's admittance that we've attained that "Getting Old" badge. I don't think many of us really want to accept that at all - in my head I feel 33 and have just as much life and vitality. Why my body thinks otherwise God only knows, but if I can put it back then personally I will.
GG x
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My point? It is my opinion that HRT can be very helpful but is not the be all and end all nor is it always a cure all. Each of us must decide based on our own needs.
Can I be honest here - sometimes after a visit to some of the threads that seem interesting (to me) I go away feeling that I ought to go onto HRT, the pro HRT message can be very strong, and yet I know that the decision not to take it is the right one for me. I do not believe I am letting myself or women in general down by deciding against it.
I very much believe medicine is / should be a personal approach. We're not all the same, and what suits one may be detrimental to another. I also believe in instinct and what 'feels' right (hence my alternative approach to my cancer treatment). I amactually taking HRT but the bioidentical / body identical / natural kind (whatever we want to call it) - I'm a firm believer of avoiding synthetic anything.
If you have found something else that works for you, that's great - or indeed not need anything at all- that's fabulous. Stick with it and don't feel any need to justify your choice.
GG X
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If we could get away from calling peri/meno a "natural" process that would help a lot.
We should really call it a "wearing out" or "Age-associated loss or impairment" which would be much closer to the truth.
Noooooo! I'm only 40. :'( I don't want to have an age-associated impairment. Or be 'worn out'. :( (Though I feel it at the moment...where's the nearest scrap heap?)
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Hi GeordieGirl
yup there are plenty of articles to say that diabetes 2 drugs are just as bad as others we may take.
However, my elderly relative takes the drug without question. Had that been HRT then the story would be different.
Why is that the case? when not taking either can cause longer term chronic conditions?
Hi Dorothy
my point, some of us associate peri/meno with a this positive skip step in life rather than a retrograde / wearing out step.
I don't hear anyone shouting out similar stuff when we should embrace our failing pancreas, thyroid, kidney's, heart, digestion etc as we age and avoid drugs that might help us there.
In most cases we just get on with it and take what we need to make us better or improve our quality of life.
When it comes to HRT there seems to be a huge persuasion to avoid this question or the potential solution and unfortunately the quality of life it provides to so many.
:-\
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Babyjane, my Mum had a surgical menopause at only 42. She only took HRT for roughly 8 months after her hysterectomy. She is now in her mid 70s but is often mistaken for being much younger because her skin is lovely and barely lined.
Yet she had a fall when only 56 and broke her wrist. But it was actually shattered and has never been right since. She also has atrial fibrillation. Both issues have been attributed to her lack of oestrogen from 43 onwards.
I think if someone says they would never take HRT 'just' for theenopause, then that person has never felt so low and distraught that they have woken their poor husband in the middle of the night to tell him they want to kill themselves.
At my lowest points I would have taken HRT even if the risks were multiplied by a factor of 10. At such times the threat of dying from breast cancer in 15 years time was infinitely preferable to waking up the next morning, and the next 100 mornings after that KNOWING that you will feel very strongly tempted to step under a bus just toake the misery stop.
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And during my 'bad' days and weeks I was essentially dead anyway. Couldn't bring myself to cuddle my children or even speak to them. I avoided looking at myself in the mirror. I ignored my poor husband and just felt numb inside when I looked at him. Nothing could make me smile.
That's not 'living'. It is just 'existing'. And a very miserable existence it is.
I believe my HRT has finally kicked in. These last 10 days I have felt properly 'alive' for the first time in over 18 months. I am chatting naturally with my children again and actually looking forward to seeing my husband when he comes home. I'm laughing with friends and enjoying my job.
HRT has simply given me my life back. And if that means there's a small chance that I might be more at risk of breast cancer in my 60s and 70s then it's a price I am more than happy to pay.
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Also the risk of getting breast cancer goes up with age anyway, so the chances of getting it in your 60s and 70s rises with age regardless. I think there is a poster in my GP's that says 75% of breast cancer occurs in the over 70s but couldn't see to read it properly. I suppose that's why everyone is so shocked when a 30 or 40 year old gets it.
It's all a very difficult subject and people have to do what they are comfortable with.
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I have to pay for my inhalers and the spacer to use them, and for my epipen
Is the bcp still free ?
Annie xx
Yep, I certainly get Qlaira free - even though I am taking it as hrt rather than for contraceptive reasons. Was pleasantly surprised. I always felt aggrieved that I had to pay double for separate oestrogen and progesterone. (And don't get me started on the vat on sanitary products issue ....) . If men had ovaries, you can bet we wouldn't suffer half as much as we presently do!
I went on my hysterectomy forum for the first time in 3 years the other day, sadly it's like a ghost town but reading old threads many are on the bcp which really surprised me as it contains progesterone which I'm constantly told womb less women shouldn't have
What symptoms did you have that the pill has helped with ? I'm worried about more hair loss if I switch
Annie xx
Initially, it made hair loss worse, if anything (probably the same). However, after four months, there's a definite improvement. My mood is also steadier than on HRT as I feel the Qlaira is more controlling and I have fewer random fluctuations (and even more so if you take a synthetic estrogen BCP). I am less tired (but still get random bouts of fatigue) and my headaches have improved. Not sure if a stronger patch would have had the same effect - who knows - but I have to admit, taking a single daily pill is less hassle than my previous regime. ::)
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Can I be honest here - sometimes after a visit to some of the threads that seem interesting (to me) I go away feeling that I ought to go onto HRT, the pro HRT message can be very strong, and yet I know that the decision not to take it is the right one for me. I do not believe I am letting myself or women in general down by deciding against it.
Babyjane, hope it was nothing I said? ???
I know sometimes I can be a bit pro HRT, but I think it's because, until I came on here, everyone I spoke to and even a number of doctors (plus family) were so anti that I almost felt ashamed - as if I was 'giving in' and should be stronger. I felt lonely and isolated. Joining this forum was a revelation: for once, I did not have to be embarrassed and/or defensive about taking hormones in this way.
That said, if it wasn't for a few members on here, I'd have given in after a few weeks - as a result of such negative publicity, I was literally anticipating side effects from the moment I first took it! - and so I try to encourage people in the same way people did me. The difference HRT has made to my life is massive (and I bitterly regret the many months, years even, I wasted hiding away, trying this and that alleged cure which really didn't work). I've got some quality of life again and hate the thought that I nearly didn't try it simply because of the way society - generally (not on here) - judged me.
At present I am trying to discuss Qlaira as openly and honestly as I can, simply because I know how little feedback there is here in the UK since it's so new. I spent hours trawling the internet, often having to translate from French, and hope I can save other people a bit of the hassle.
That said, I fully respect anyone who chooses not to HRT, whether for medical reasons or personal preference - and am always really interested to hear of any alternative medications, treatments or therapies that help. With such a wealth of experience and knowledge amongst members, it's crucial we all do share our stories and educate each other - but equally crucial we do it in an open-minded, supportive and non-judgemental manner. Life's tough enough for us ladies without us becoming an additional stress to each other!
:hug:
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No no no, it was a general observation and a feeling I get sometimes reading threads. It was not aimed at anyone in particular, I'm sorry if it read that way. I will edit my post so it does not lead to misunderstanding :)
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A bunch of menopausal women together in one (cyber) room ... can you think of a more paranoid, anxious, sensitive, touchy, moody audience?!! x ;)
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A bunch of menopausal women together in one (cyber) room ... can you think of a more paranoid, anxious, sensitive, touchy, moody audience?!! x ;)
Paranoid? Moody? Argh! HOW CAN YOU BE SO RUDE TO ME?!!!!!! :'( :'( :'(
( ;D ;D ;D Well, you did ask for it!)
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Initially, it made hair loss worse, if anything (probably the same). However, after four months, there's a definite improvement. My mood is also steadier than on HRT as I feel the Qlaira is more controlling and I have fewer random fluctuations (and even more so if you take a synthetic estrogen BCP). I am less tired (but still get random bouts of fatigue) and my headaches have improved. Not sure if a stronger patch would have had the same effect - who knows - but I have to admit, taking a single daily pill is less hassle than my previous regime. ::)
[/quote]
Sorry to come across stupid
Do you mean hair loss was worse initially then improved ?
Did you mean synthetic bcp is better ?
I'm going to investigate further
Thank you xx
Annie XX
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Initially, it made hair loss worse, if anything (probably the same). However, after four months, there's a definite improvement. My mood is also steadier than on HRT as I feel the Qlaira is more controlling and I have fewer random fluctuations (and even more so if you take a synthetic estrogen BCP). I am less tired (but still get random bouts of fatigue) and my headaches have improved. Not sure if a stronger patch would have had the same effect - who knows - but I have to admit, taking a single daily pill is less hassle than my previous regime. ::)
Sorry to come across stupid
Do you mean hair loss was worse initially then improved ?
Did you mean synthetic bcp is better ?
I'm going to investigate further
Thank you xx
Annie XX
[/quote]
Sorry - I wasn't very clear!
I had hair loss previously, before any HRT and when taking Evorel/Utrogestan. It was always worse when the progesterone phase stopped, and better when well into the estrogen only phase. When I first took Qlaira, it seemed to be all the time, rather than cyclical, so I panicked. However, four months in, and for the first time in years, I am not spending ages de-fuzzing my shoulders and the sink!
What I meant about synthetic oestrogen was that it is more potent than the oestrogen in Qlaira, so is therefore more likely to control your own hormones. Qlaira is a low and 'weaker' form of oestrogen than other BCPs, though still stronger than most HRTs. I liked the fact it's bio identical, but some people find it's not strong enough.
Hope this is a bit clearer ! x
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Yes that's a great explanation Briony, thank you
I'm almost 49 and I keep reading 50 is the limit to take bcp because of risks, even if I could get a year of feeling okay (even better, well) I'd go for it
With hair loss I read bcp chosen should be low androgen which I think Qlaira is
Annie xx
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Yes that's a great explanation Briony, thank you
I'm almost 49 and I keep reading 50 is the limit to take bcp because of risks, even if I could get a year of feeling okay (even better, well) I'd go for it
With hair loss I read bcp chosen should be low androgen which I think Qlaira is
Annie xx
Yes, it is low androgen. I remember checking for the same reason. I was convinced I was about to turn bald! The only thing I would say is that most of the Qlaiira pills are only 20 mg (2 are 30 and 2 are nil) so you'd be on a very similar amount of estrogen as you are currently. Would you want more? If you do go for Qlaira, be prepared to battle. It's expensive! Xx
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I really don't know which way to turn here
Way back younger, I always had to take trinordial for bc as ovran etc was way too strong for me, trinordial had different strengths each week which suited me better
My oestradiol level is always high (blood tests) in the 700s but I can't help feeling that trying to change would help with symptoms, had to remove the patch after 2 days because of migraine
Annie xx
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That is high - mine was 41! Trouble is, it's only a snap shot, isn't it, unless you have them done over a longer term.
Qlaira has really helped with my migraines (touch wood) and the doctor said its four different stages were designed to avoid the BCP's usual sudden drop at the end of the month, thus avoiding the potential migraine. Perhaps it could be worth you investigating it?
That said, from what you say, maybe you need to look at the prog/est balance, rather than just the estrogen? Am no expert by any means, but if your estrogen is high and you're still experiencing symptoms, maybe it's the progesterone's that's 'out'?
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I've always thought that, I've had 3 blood tests over the last year and oestrogen is always high now prog has dwindled to almost zero. But because I've had a hysterectomy I'm constantly told I can't have prog, but I was allowed to produce my own naturally all those years post hyster? No one can answer me that !
I requested a GP phone consultation yesterday to talk about it, they've just called me saying next earliest available date is mid July ! I thought I'd leave a face to face as I feel they're just writing me off now
I've tried pro gest cream but I just don't think it's strong enough to have an effect
Annie xx
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Hi Annie
there is no reason why you could not ask for a combined sequi or conti option.
Its you choice if you want to give yourself some prog :)
:-*
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Hi Annie
there is no reason why you could not ask for a combined sequi or conti option.
Its you choice if you want to give yourself some prog :)
:-*
Thanks peegeetip
Funnily enough I've just found my box of combined that a young GP prescribed in error (evorel combi) so I've cut one in half and stuck that on, will see how I feel, I was scared to do the whole patch as when they gave me the oestrogen patch equivalent to my pill I had terrible migraine so will see how I tolerate this one
Annie xx
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Just remember that it can take weeks to notice any benefits from a patch Annie. Well, it did with me anyway. Hope it works for you.
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Just remember that it can take weeks to notice any benefits from a patch Annie. Well, it did with me anyway. Hope it works for you.
Thanks GRL
I've had terrible headaches the last few days on my usual regime so unless there's no drastic worse symptoms, I'll see this out
Annie xx
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I'm 5 weeks into this patch, cut into just over a quarter to start with (the HRT nurse said to build up slowly) I had a few rumbling tension headaches but not migraines, a few odd feelings, but feel it is getting better. I do feel more energised and positive, and sweats have eased. When I went to the loo earlier to day I noticed patch was missing. I must have looked very strange, rubbing my hand over my butt cheeks thinking where is it! Goodness knows how when it came off, and they've always stuck so well.
What exactly is Qiaira by the way?
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Qlaira is a low dose contraceptive pill. Unlike the others, it has bio identical estrogen - so more like HRT - and it also has only two non pill days, so less likelihood for the side effects of a dip. I switched to it because HRT wasn't over-riding my own hormones enough and I needed something more controlling.
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Interesting thread!
Your GP is quite wrong though GypsyRoseLee... she doesn't understand natural selection nor genetics!
The distinction should be made between life expectancy and life-span. There is a stuff written about this which you can google! CLKD is right. I wouldn't use the word "designed" as that implies a higher power at work (!) but as BrightLight said it's all about evolution and natural selection.
Our life-span is the average age a woman can live to - without other intervening factors like disease etc. As far as I remember from what I read a while back, our potential life-span has not changed much (if at all) over the same time period that our life expectancy has changed a great deal. The GP is is right about survival and death (life-expectancy). However it doesn't alter the fact that women have evolved (genetically) to have a period of time in post-menopause. The grandmother hypothesis is one explanation for why this is so.
We are absolutely not genetically engineered to die at 40 (life-span)! That is absolute rubbish! What she is meaning which is true that because our life-expectancy has inreased dramatically due to modern medicine we do now on average live to our allotted life-span which (itself may be increasing) - which means yes maybe a third of our life or more in menopause.
It is most definitely a natural process - but that doesn't mean we should suffer because of it! The main problem with any changes that happen after reproductive age is that natural selection cannnot operate (by which I mean that any genes which confer some sort of advantage due not prefentially survive to the next generation). One thing is certain that we are not genetically programmed to die as soon as we have finished reproducing. As well as the grandmother hypothesis you could argue that because of the dependence of human infants on their mothers for survival, more children will survivie to the next generation (and pass on their genes) if their mothers stay alive long enough to be able to rear them to maturity and independence. Using that argument I would expect in the very long (evolutionary) term (thousands of years?) that there should be less of a difference between menopause and death - say 15 or 16 years or up to 18. The fact that there is a disparity is because medicine etc is artificially increasing our life expectancy so that natural selection maybe will not operate in quite the same way. Anyway, of course, the evolution of menopause and reproduction and lifespan does not operate in isolation so other factors affecting our survival, and other aspects of ageing etc come into play.
Oh that was a bit of a ramble...
The main point aside from all that (that GypsyRosLee's GP was making) - our bodies do suffer and deteriorate from lack of oestrogen and I agree that it is bizarre to expect us to live 30-40 years without it ( due to our increased life-expectancy). As for hypothyroidism - many people who are given thyroxine will not have the condition anywehere near severe enough to die from it - under general NHS principles it is given when TSH falls outside the "normal" range (I'm not talking here about people who have no thryoid hormone production at all just as some people have no insulin). However it does improve quality of life enormously for those who take it, in the same way that oestrogen does. :)
Hurdity x
My family on my Dads side were very well to do. Grt Grt Grandad owned and ran the Harrison Shipping
It only sold to PO in the 2000s he ran through 4 wives who all died in childbirth he had about 15 kids
Thats how we arent rich now heheheheh. Women of all classes died young in childbirth
If you look at old Census you can see 2nd wife 3 rd wife etc so theres more than a grain of truth
In probably up to 50% of women never reaching meno and of the rest it was luck how old they lived
If a man had to suffer his bits shrinking shriveling vanishing in to his groin area it wouldnt be accepted
Years ago theyd have found a CURE not a help but we women even today with all the freedoms etc
Over 50s unless we are someone important have to just put up. Ive been on Vagifem now for 5 yrs
Its slowly failing me and whats left? Sod all knowone would give me HRT at 62 after never taking it
Theres no mad dash to find a CURE for Atrophy falling down prolapses etc they give u a ring to shove up
Imagine a man having to instert a ring inside his uretha to enable him to get an erection PIGS BUM
Then we had the male pill as far back as the 90s perfect except no drink so it wasnt releasd
Women are till dying from the BC pill yet they still hand them out no problems we are expendable now Just as we were 100 yrs ago and Im not a feminist just a realist
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>wave< SuziQ
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I've always thought that, I've had 3 blood tests over the last year and oestrogen is always high now prog has dwindled to almost zero. But because I've had a hysterectomy I'm constantly told I can't have prog, but I was allowed to produce my own naturally all those years post hyster? No one can answer me that !
I wonder if this will change now that the latest research proves yet again that progesterone can help breast cancer... I take it you still have your breasts if not your womb?
(I won't hold my breath though, the NHS don't exactly seem to be leading edge on this)
GG X
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I've always thought that, I've had 3 blood tests over the last year and oestrogen is always high now prog has dwindled to almost zero. But because I've had a hysterectomy I'm constantly told I can't have prog, but I was allowed to produce my own naturally all those years post hyster? No one can answer me that !
I wonder if this will change now that the latest research proves yet again that progesterone can help breast cancer... I take it you still have your breasts if not your womb?
(I won't hold my breath though, the NHS don't exactly seem to be leading edge on this)
GG X
I visited a hysterectomy/menopause forum GG and many ladies on there are in progesterone too, mainly because they suffered endometriosis but some because they feel better on it
Just goes to show......... Take notice of symptoms maybe
I can't remember if you've had a hysterectomy or not ?
Annie xx
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I can't remember if you've had a hysterectomy or not ?
No, just a fan of progesterone and curious why our medical professional seem more reluctant about it.
Did you get a prescription in the end?
GG x
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I can't remember if you've had a hysterectomy or not ?
No, just a fan of progesterone and curious why our medical professional seem more reluctant about it.
Did you get a prescription in the end?
GG x
No I didn't but I'm having eye problems and under the hospital (who have only tested diabetes) but they sent me back to opticians to get prisms fitted in glasses and optician was astounded they're not testing for other conditions so told me to book doc appt, I have that thurs primarily to discuss the tests that optician recommends but I may get chance to discuss that too
Do you know if the utrogestan is a big part of you feeling good aside from the oestrogel? Did you start both together ?
I'm starting to wonder (again!) how much of all this with me is actually meno ! I'm getting symptoms of things that aren't on meno list
Annie xx
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Annie, are you sure your symptoms aren't on the meno list? Obviously, it's important to get things checked out in case it's something else , but from my experience and that of so many others on here, not all meno symptoms are 'typical' - I've never had a hot flush, night sweat, etc etc ; my initial symptoms were only digestive (especially burping!) and severe back pain/tingling in extremities/chills. Fatigue developed later on. Was sent on a wild goose chase of consultant visits but took nearly two years before anyone suggested checking my hormones. My current GP is great and immediately said 'with hormones, anything is possible' but previously, my old GP said I was too young (then 40) for it to be hormonal. Luckily, with hrt and then the pill, I have seen a big improvement. Interestingly, although I was found to have low estrogen, it's the progesterone (especially the Utrogeston) that my body seems to like most x
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Annie, are you sure your symptoms aren't on the meno list? Obviously, it's important to get things checked out in case it's something else , but from my experience and that of so many others on here, not all meno symptoms are 'typical' - I've never had a hot flush, night sweat, etc etc ; my initial symptoms were only digestive (especially burping!) and severe back pain/tingling in extremities/chills. Fatigue developed later on. Was sent on a wild goose chase of consultant visits but took nearly two years before anyone suggested checking my hormones. My current GP is great and immediately said 'with hormones, anything is possible' but previously, my old GP said I was too young (then 40) for it to be hormonal. Luckily, with hrt and then the pill, I have seen a big improvement. Interestingly, although I was found to have low estrogen, it's the progesterone (especially the Utrogeston) that my body seems to like most x
Thank you Briony, re hormones , progesterone may or may not be the missing part of me feeling better, if I don't try it, I can't rule it out
I developed double vision, it's 6th nerve palsy which isn't meno related. The blurred vision could be but prob more to do with the palsy. I'm also seeing a tissue specialist because of possible burning mouth syndrome.
There's no doubt I'm menopausal, all my blood results tell the story but so many symptoms of meno are the same as other conditions
I had night sweats years ago after my hysterectomy that hrt sorted but like you I've never had a hot flush
Annie xx