Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => Personal Experiences => Topic started by: Chi chi on June 19, 2015, 12:12:16 PM
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Been feeling like this for a while now, so tired but unable to sleep when it's bedtime :-\ still not feeling better after topping up my implants either? Not sure if the low mood is affecting my sleep or the other way around??
I'm trying to resist napping in the afternoon to catch up hoping it'll help me sleep at night but not happening ::) I'm usually first up in the morning but finding it hard to wake up and get up ???
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Every sympathy with that one Estelle. I'm the same. I resist urge to sleep during day, then too tired at night. If I do nod off in the daytime, still can't sleep at night. Dragged myself out of bed today. Hubby says he's been waiting to go for swim until I got up. I really wanted to skip it today, but went anyway. I'm just back from trip into town & I'm pooped.
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Horrible isn't it but good for you going swimming and making the effort :great:
I'm exactly the same after a walk around town, knackered and drained and I'm only 40! God knows what I'll be like when I get older :o
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Do you take anything, Estelle (HRT/pill etc?) x
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Yeah I have estrogen and testosterone implants, last blood test my e had dropped dramatically since having them inserted so I have to top it up with gel, supposed to use 2 pumps per day but been having 3, I also take Vit D and a couple of AD's. I've got a bottle of Niacinamide sat here to start but too afraid lol ::)
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Have you had your thyroid tested recently Estelle? I have all those symptoms too, although I can sleep in the day and at night. I may as well live in my bed the way things are at present.
After a routine blood test it turns out that my dosage of thyroxine is too high - even though I've been on that dose for over 20 years - and apparently I will improve in about 6 months time after taking a reduced amount.
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I would get your nutrients measured before taking additional vits. I learnt the hard way! I was convinced, as a vege, that all my problems would go away if I took B vits, iron and vit d. I went to a health food shop and spent loads on various tablets. Several months later, my GP actually measured my nutrients and he discovered my b12 was ridiculously high (to the extent I could have been exacerbating my problems).
Have you thought about swapping from implants to a different HRT method? I've got no experience of them myself, but friends have had negative experiences. Perhaps a patch or higher get dose would suit you better?
Hope you get some answers soon x
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Have you had your thyroid tested recently Estelle? I have all those symptoms too, although I can sleep in the day and at night. I may as well live in my bed the way things are at present.
After a routine blood test it turns out that my dosage of thyroxine is too high - even though I've been on that dose for over 20 years - and apparently I will improve in about 6 months time after taking a reduced amount.
Mrs Mopp, out of interest, with thyroid problems, do people feel tired all the time or just randomly throughout the month? Does the fatigue last all day at the same intensity, or are there good and bad moments/days? x
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With me it was pretty much all the time with a bit of variance. The most obvious sign was the needing to sleep after only being up for 2 hours.
Definitely do as Briony suggests and get your nutrients tested.
Would a GP do that Briony?
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Thanks Mrs Mopp. Yes, my GP tested my nutrients. Basic iron and B12 first, then a more complex one. It was another year before he looked at my hormones and found the root of my problems!
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Did he test for Vitamin D too Briony? Mine did that and I was found to be deficient. I've been told that as somebody who has an underactive thyroid I should be checked for ferrous, folate and vitamin B12 levels. Not quite sure how to ask my GP for that without sounding as if I know more than she does.
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Yes, he did and I was deficient. However, the neurologist who I saw at the same time said so are many, many people and it was a red herring in my case. He had done loads of research into Vit D (something to do with helping people with MS I think) and said that, whilst taking a supplement would do me no harm, he was certain low Vit d was not the cause of my problems. I did take a high dose for several months, secretly hoping it would be the miracle cure I so desperately wanted, but it wasn't. Estrogen was the first thing to help with the tiredness.
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Yes, my GP said the same re. lots of people being deficient in Vitamin D
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Because we walk less. It is noticeable in various ethnic groups to because they are covered up when shopping etc.. About 12 years ago it was realised that rickets was becoming more 'common'.
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Thanks for the replies :)
Yeah originally before the hormones I thought maybe my thyroid was under active Here's my results over the years
2011
TSH 1.34 range 3.5-5.00
2012
TSH 0.88 range 3.5-5.5
2013
TSH 1.18 range was 0.35-5.5
Then in January 2014 I had more tests and they were
TSH 1.44 range 0.35-5.5
Free T4 10.9 range 10.5-20.00
Free T3 4.4 range 3.5-6.5
We decided that I would try thyroxine for a while but I didn't really feel any better so stopped.
Throughout my tests over the last 3/4 years my WBC is quite often raised as in my Neutrophils??
My GP said although my Vit D was insufficient it didn't need treating? Prof Studd on the other hand has told me I need it so I've been taking 1000IU for the last year, have to say I don't think it's made any difference :-\
My one and only test for B12 was taken back in 2012 and was 3.64 range 180-900 I also had no folate so was given folic acid but again felt no difference :-\
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Whether you feel different is a separate issue to whether these medications are helping. It's the draining that is a worry. Crashing fatigue?
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Encouraged to hear someone else is feeling this way - I wake up in the morning feeling more tired than I used to feel at the end of a long day! If anyone finds a magic solution, please let me know!
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It's my head that is always tired …… it feels like it could stay in bed and catch up on sleep; sometimes my legs are tired, fortunately I'm over the crashing fatigue.
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I wonder if we need less thyroxine as we get older. Last year I developed sympoms of thyrotoxicosis after being on the same dose for many years. I was bouncing off the walls. I was also swapped to a different brand which can also cause trouble. It has been a long slow process over the last 8 months and I am still not completely stable but I am getting there.
I was warned by my endocrinologist about 15 years ago that when I hit the menopause my thyroid levels could become unstable and they did. He also said that if I took HRT I could need more thyroxine. I don't take it so maybe I need less. Being taken off my tried and trusted brand didn't help. I just hope that once I am used to the new brand and the dose is right, that it doesn't suddenly get changed again ::)
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That's interesting Babyjane. I've been on the same dose of thyroxine for 20 years or more. Had a routine blood test a few weeks back and got called in to see the doctor. I was expecting to be told I needed to take more thyroxine - I've been exhausted for over 6 months now - only to be told I need to take less.
I started using HRT patches about 6 weeks ago. ( A few weeks before I had the blood test.) Clearly my result didn't show that I needed more thyroxine despite the HRT. Also being over-medicated made me tired as opposed to hyperactive.
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I believe in some patients that can happen as when you are over medicated your body is working harder to stabilise itself. Although I was bouncing off the walls with all the symptoms of being overactive I was still completely exhausted. As my levels start returning to somewhere near normal the dragging 'wading through treacle' feelings are getting less.
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HORMONES >:( ::)
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It's my head that is always tired …… it feels like it could stay in bed and catch up on sleep; sometimes my legs are tired, fortunately I'm over the crashing fatigue.
You're so right. The crushing fatigue is hideous, especially as it's so unpredictable and so hard to hide. At first, it really scared me as I thought I was about to collapse (especially since I usually feel very hot or else very cold at the same time). Now, when it strikes, I know I just need to 'hang in there', ride with it and hope it soon passes. There has been more than one occasion when I have nearly called in sick as I haven't felt safe to travel to work, let alone get anything constructive done when I get there!
I hate it when I say I feel tired (euphemism for 'my eyelids weigh ten stone, my brain is drifting along in neutral, I feel nauseous and even if you offered me a million quid, at this point I'd rather sleep') and colleagues will say they 'feel the same' (as in they had a single late night and feel a bit grumpy/lazy). I then feel pathetic and embarrassed to mention it any more, hence the reason, in general, I hide it.
The only thing that has helped me is more estrogen, but I know that progesterone makes it (fatigue) worse so it's all about getting the balance.
Hormones! >:(
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I hate it when people tell me that they are feeling 'similar' to my complaint. That de-values how I'm feeling right then! Now I ask 'how long have you got?' ;D
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I agree with CLDK last post and have also been on the receiving end of 'oh I know just how you feel'. Er, no, you don't, you know how you feel and it sounds similar, but you really don't know how I feel.
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I agree with CLDK last post and have also been on the receiving end of 'oh I know just how you feel'. Er, no, you don't, you know how you feel and it sounds similar, but you really don't know how I feel.
Absolutely. People who say, 'oh. so it's just your hormones' have a similar effect on me! x
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Yes, I did try to explain to my boss last week that the reason I've felt so tired for the past 6 months plus was because my thyroid levels were up the creek. I could see she thought it was just a matter of changing the dosage and I'd be right as pie. I didn't bother telling her that the GP told me that I probably wouldn't feel any better for another 6 months after reducing my dose >:(
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Thyroxine is not like taking an aspirin for a headache. It takes weeks and months as it has to be done very slowly and gradually but when the change does kick in things can improve rapidly afterwards.
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I'm not suggesting this as a cure, but it can certainly help to cut out sugar, gluten and dairy. I'm not entirely sure which has worked for me but I've never had as much energy since chopping them right down.
It may be worth a try?
GG x
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I've cut out gluten but I'm a big fan of sugar ::) and as for dairy - I don't know what I'd eat if I gave that up. No cheese, no milk :(
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Correct me if I am wrong but doesn't TSH number need to be high to show under active thyroid. When my daughters packed in her TSH was 45!!
Hence immediate thyroid prescription the same day.
Oh and I gad very low vitamin D, got up to very high and felt absolutely nothing of benefit.
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You are right Sarai, the higher the TSH number the more the thyroid is struggling. The reference range is usually around 0.5 - 4.5 but my endo increases my dose if mine goes above 3 as then I start to struggle. When I was first diagnosed my TSH reading was 52 and my GP phoned me at home the same evening. That was 28 years ago and there have been ups and downs since then.
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I hate it when people tell me that they are feeling 'similar' to my complaint. That de-values how I'm feeling right then! Now I ask 'how long have you got?' ;D
Very good point CKLD.
I would also like to sign in to the the tired and drained club.
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I've cut out gluten but I'm a big fan of sugar ::) and as for dairy - I don't know what I'd eat if I gave that up. No cheese, no milk :(
It's actually so much easier than it sounds. I've done it to fight my cancer (and it appears to be working well), initially I thought it would be a nightmare but my diet is better than ever.
Almond milk, coconut milk or goats' milk are good replacements for dairy (goats' milk contains 90% less casein than cows' milk, and also less lactose)
Goats's cheese is good too - I've started using Feta in cooking and it's just as nice if not nicer.
I'm actually finding I'm no longer craving sugar and can't stress how much difference I feel this has made. Sugar is a huge problem in our standard Western diets, with an average 8 year old now having consumed more sugar a man would in the whole of his life only a century ago. I've given up any processed foods and sweeten my own cooking with cinnamon or fruit, or a small amount of manuka honey if absolutely necessary.
I have been pretty much forced into this as I didn't want to have conventional cancer therapies but am absolutely amazed at the results and have more energy and clarity than ever.
Worth considering if all else fails (I'd say it's worth considering even if all else doesn't fail, but then I'm a very convinced convert ;D )
GG x
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GG,
When I first got MS like symptoms, a number of people suggested I gave up sugar. At the time I dismissed it, but you have now got me thinking.
I don't 'add' sugar to anything (drinks, cereal etc), but often wonder where the hidden sugars are that I eat? What are the foods that most surprised you find they had sugar? Do you avoid all sweeteners?
B x
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Hidden sweeteners as well as sugars, sucrose …….. read the labels if you have glasses strong enough ::) - I can no longer read small print …..
I had a chocolate swiss role during the afternoon and almost immediately felt queasy :-\ …….. won't be buying any more of those! A few days ago I had a chocolate biscuit, same happened …….
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GG,
When I first got MS like symptoms, a number of people suggested I gave up sugar. At the time I dismissed it, but you have now got me thinking.
I don't 'add' sugar to anything (drinks, cereal etc), but often wonder where the hidden sugars are that I eat? What are the foods that most surprised you find they had sugar? Do you avoid all sweeteners?
B x
Oh God Briony, please please try it! Sugar, gluten and dairy are the key offenders and can play a definite role in auto immune and other debilitating conditions. It's definitely worth googling MS and diet and see what comes up.
The only way to truly cut out sugar is to give up processed foods. Check boxes, tins and tubs and you'll see just how much sugar is put in the food we're sold - alongside salt. It's horrendous.
Whatever you do, don't swap to artificial sweeteners. Aspartame is the main one used (also used widely in processed, diet foods) and is linked to neurological disorders. Aspartame was banned in the US when first launch, eventually after much insistence it got through, but has recently been dropped by Coca Cola due to pressure - only in the US though, it continues to load it into UK carbonated drinks. If you must sweeten your food, a small amount of good honey is better, or try fruit and spices. Pureed apple, cinnamon, banana etc work well. If you use any sweetener at all, Stevia is from a natural plant and not loaded with damaging chemicals. There's a very good documentary film, "Sweet Misery - A Poisoned World" which outlines why aspartame is so bad for us https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KjdApUovUw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KjdApUovUw)
It takes 21 days to change a habit apparently and I've found that by cutting down on sugar more and more and more over the last few months, I no longer crave it. It's taken a while to get there but I no longer have milky tea loaded with sweeteners, but hot water with a dash of fresh lemon. We've swapped carbonated drinks and instead keep a bottle of filtered water in the fridge with lemon slices and a dash of Himalayan pink salt - I never thought I'd ween my teens off the sugary stuff but they love it!
Like CLKD, I now recognise almost immediately when I've had gluten as my body just feels 'heavy'. I've never particularly had food allergies but I can now see how I'd been overloading my digestive system with stuff that can't be digested easily. I rarely get that really heavy feeling now and with a little imagination, we have a fab range of recipes.
Over the years I'd been 'hoodwinked' by the diet industry to think a low fat diet was better for us and I cut out all good fats (Avocado, olive oil, coconut oils etc) and instead loaded up with products full of hidden sweeteners and little goodness. I fought against the sugar cravings for decades, the more sugar you have the more you tend to crave. I though diet drinks would be ok for me because they didn't contain sugar, right? My body now shows me how wrong I was, and I'm just glad I've realised it whilst my girls are still young and I have time to get them into good practices.
So....highly recommended!
Herein endeth today's sermon ;D
GG X
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My DD is doing a nutritional therapy course and sugar is deemed to be the worst component in our diet. It used to be thought fats were bad for us but that is only trans fats, we need a certain amount. As usual, everything in moderation! X
Where's she studying Sparkle? My youngest is way off leaving school yet but is becoming increasingly more interested in following this route.
GG x
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Just found this too....
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/foodanddrink/healthyeating/11691125/I-ate-40-teaspoons-of-sugar-a-day.-This-is-what-happened.html?fb_ref=Default (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/foodanddrink/healthyeating/11691125/I-ate-40-teaspoons-of-sugar-a-day.-This-is-what-happened.html?fb_ref=Default)
GG x
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It would seem that quite a lot of young women especially are very interested in healthy eating. My daughter certainly is. It has nothing to do with her weight and everything to do with a healthy life style.
She has stopped adding any salt to her food, she has drastically cut down on sugar, makes food from scratch much more often and is the smoothie queen in our house....both fruit and green.
Her skin has improved as has her energy levels. She started this at the beginning of the year in an attempt to have more energy to study for her finals.
Interestingly, she cooks a lot for her boyfriend and has changed his eating habits as well. He has lost over a stone in weight and has gone from being your typical mechanic who glugs fizzy drink and eats bacon rolls, to making his own packed lunches and drinking water. She even has him eating fruit and veg. He also looks better and has far more energy than before.
They still have the occasional carry out, such as pizza and Chinese but it's rare these days.
It's so important that our young eat well for future health and fitness.
Honeyb
X
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Cape gooseberry straight from the plant are delicious ;) - we have grown them for years. Make good dried pods for decorations too.
Many years ago it was hot - probably the Summer of 1995 and I couldn't walk to the shop for chocolate. After a few days of not eating it I found my body was less sluggish. Yesterday I ate a small chocolate roll and within minutes, felt grumbly and awful so will try cutting milk chocolate out of my diet again.
Canderal is another sweetener but I can't remember if this is the one which shouldn't be used if one is on certain anti-depressants :-\
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We grew them throughout the earlier 1970s. They were known as South African gooseberries then.
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She's studying at the College of Naturopathic Medicine (www.thecnm.com) - they do various courses but the one she's doing is the Diploma Course in Naturopathic Nutrition (three years/part time) - well worth a look as they do short courses too.
She also thinks that manufacturers get away with making the sugar content look lower by breaking it down into the three main types on labels, that way they appear individually on the ingredients list but lower down if that makes sense. Something she worked out by looking at labels - I'd never have thought of it to be honest!
I really admire your determination GeordieGirl and getting your girls interested at a young age can only be beneficial.
S x
Thanks for the link Sparkle. My daughter is a little young yet but it's worth us checking out so she can consider it as an option. Is your daughter enjoying the course?
I totally agree with the labeling issues. By breaking it down, sugar isn't listed as the main ingredient - hm. This happens regularly with 'High Fructose Corn Syrup', and the aim is basically to trick the consumer.
One rule I'm trying to stick to now is, if it has to have a label, I probably shouldn't be eating it. If the label has ingredients I know nothing about, then I won't eat it.
GG x
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GG,
When I first got MS like symptoms, a number of people suggested I gave up sugar. At the time I dismissed it, but you have now got me thinking.
I don't 'add' sugar to anything (drinks, cereal etc), but often wonder where the hidden sugars are that I eat? What are the foods that most surprised you find they had sugar? Do you avoid all sweeteners?
B x
Oh God Briony, please please try it! Sugar, gluten and dairy are the key offenders and can play a definite role in auto immune and other debilitating conditions. It's definitely worth googling MS and diet and see what comes up.
The only way to truly cut out sugar is to give up processed foods. Check boxes, tins and tubs and you'll see just how much sugar is put in the food we're sold - alongside salt. It's horrendous.
Whatever you do, don't swap to artificial sweeteners. Aspartame is the main one used (also used widely in processed, diet foods) and is linked to neurological disorders. Aspartame was banned in the US when first launch, eventually after much insistence it got through, but has recently been dropped by Coca Cola due to pressure - only in the US though, it continues to load it into UK carbonated drinks. If you must sweeten your food, a small amount of good honey is better, or try fruit and spices. Pureed apple, cinnamon, banana etc work well. If you use any sweetener at all, Stevia is from a natural plant and not loaded with damaging chemicals. There's a very good documentary film, "Sweet Misery - A Poisoned World" which outlines why aspartame is so bad for us https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KjdApUovUw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KjdApUovUw)
It takes 21 days to change a habit apparently and I've found that by cutting down on sugar more and more and more over the last few months, I no longer crave it. It's taken a while to get there but I no longer have milky tea loaded with sweeteners, but hot water with a dash of fresh lemon. We've swapped carbonated drinks and instead keep a bottle of filtered water in the fridge with lemon slices and a dash of Himalayan pink salt - I never thought I'd ween my teens off the sugary stuff but they love it!
Like CLKD, I now recognise almost immediately when I've had gluten as my body just feels 'heavy'. I've never particularly had food allergies but I can now see how I'd been overloading my digestive system with stuff that can't be digested easily. I rarely get that really heavy feeling now and with a little imagination, we have a fab range of recipes.
Over the years I'd been 'hoodwinked' by the diet industry to think a low fat diet was better for us and I cut out all good fats (Avocado, olive oil, coconut oils etc) and instead loaded up with products full of hidden sweeteners and little goodness. I fought against the sugar cravings for decades, the more sugar you have the more you tend to crave. I though diet drinks would be ok for me because they didn't contain sugar, right? My body now shows me how wrong I was, and I'm just glad I've realised it whilst my girls are still young and I have time to get them into good practices.
So....highly recommended!
Herein endeth today's sermon ;D
GG X
Great post GG. Just been googling aspartame . So scary...... and I always thought it was beneficial to have sweeteners. What's worse is how many things it's in - even my yogurt and squash has it in :o
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Yep. Because humans have developed a sweet tooth ………
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21 one days to break a habit eh? I ought to give it a go. I have such a sweet tooth, love all the bad things. I have stopped having sugar in my tea - I now use Agave syrup.
Is Splenda ok as a sugar substitute?
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Wow, just reading the last few posts and this so chimes with where I am at right now. My stomach is constantly upset and I have been advised to try cutting out dairy and gluten, as well as chocolate (which I don't eat much of anyway). Out of curiosity, are there any good recipe books anyone could recommend to back up this dairy and gluten free lifestyle? I don't eat much in the way of processed foods and I love to cook so books would be fabulous. Now I just need to find some willpower.... anyone got any lying around spare? ;)
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If you find 'willpower' then will you share ;D
Splenda - why substitute anyway, lessen the amount of sugar you take each day and why Agave ? a plant had to die ;) :-X
I can't stop having sugar in my cuppa but am being more cautious about hidden sugars.
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Best way to avoid hidden sugars (these are mainly in savoury foods as you would expect them in sweet foods!) is not to buy processed foods, sauces etc and make your own. Once you are used to a low sugar or natural sugar (ie fruit) diet, savoury sauces and soups etc that you buy all taste horrible because they are so sweet. Best to have a small amount of sweet treats and know you are having them eg a square of choc or something and cut out the rest. Also too much fruit juice is not good for blood sugar levels - not sure about digestion?
Hurdity x
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It's true, pasta sauces are horrendous for sugar. We now use premium quality tinned chopped tomatoes and add sauteed onions, garlic and basil. Lovely :) Make our own tomato soup too - yum :). The other stuff tastes horrid now.
I have a very strong family history of diabetes so I follow a diabetic diet now as much as I can as a preventative measure (hopefully)
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Have to say I never buy sauces in any form. I make my own and always have done. The ones in jars taste funny to me, sort of metallic and unpleasant.
I don't buy pizza either but buy or make the base and do my own toppings.
Hubby says all shop bought pizza tastes the same...a sort of generic sprayed on flavour.
I have been teaching my daughter the art of sauce making.Once you learn the few basics then you are on your way to adding and changing to what you need.
I gave up sugar in my tea years ago, now I think tea tastes naturally sweet
Honeyb
X
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Splenda in cakes as a sugar substitute CKLD.
A plant had to die? Lol, so do we not eat veg now?! ;D
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I've started using fruit and spices more to sweeten rather than sugar and I actually prefer it now.
I read an article yesterday about the very high levels of tooth decay in toddlers and young children, which they put down to sugary drinks. Unfortunately drinks like Fruit Shoots, which are marketed for that audience, are far too high in sugars. A short quiz on there points out just how deceptive food stuffs can be where sugar is concerned, and yes, if it's processed or in a pack, it's likely to feature fairly prominently: http://news.sky.com/story/1344542/quick-quiz-which-foods-have-the-most-sugar.
Yesterday's tea saw us making cauliflower-based pizzas and they were scrummy. Normally my kids would turn their noses up at cauliflower, but I obviously disguised it well :)
GG x
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Sounds lovely CG, I love cauliflower though it's after effects are not so good ::)
I'm of the 60s generation. Lots of sweets, no knowledge of dental hygiene, dentists happy to take out teeth/fill them with amalgam on a whim, delrosa rose hip syrup in soothers rotting babies' and toddlers' teeth. I've a mouth full of fillings while my adult children have no fillings at all in their lovely straight teeth.
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Made some blueberry muffins yesterday with sugar substitute (xylitol). They were disgusting. They all went in the bin (well the recycling bin). :(
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Oh dear :(
The substitute in Splenda is called Maltodextrin. I've been googling it and it's not good news :(
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I use good old sugar and....butter ::)
I'm afraid my attitude is eat a little of something really nice rather than a lot of something that's not great.
I don't buy low fat anything, I just use a tiny bit of the good stuff.
Honeyb
X
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we are alike honeybee :) . Low fat means low taste and low satisfaction. I prefer a little of something good quality. Hubby likes good quality food too. I would not buy value or basics food and we like to use the local farm shop :)