Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: GypsyRoseLee on June 12, 2015, 02:29:46 PM
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Fingers crossed my mood still seems to be improving after my awful depressed/anxious episode of the last week and a half :) And, I am very, very grateful that (hopefully) HRT will really help even out my mood swings/anxiety etc.
But since starting HRT, even when I'm having a 'good' couple of weeks I am very aware that I'm not precisely the same as I used to be before this peri roller coaster started. It's very subtle, and I think only I would be able to tell the difference but I feel like a 'photocopy' of my old self. A photocopy that is just very, very slightly out of focus.
I also feel like I have taken two steps sideways and one step backwards from where I used to stand before peri menopause.
All my peri menopause symptoms have basically been anxiety/mood swings/low mood and insomnia. So 'all in my head' so to speak. None of the classic physical symptoms yet (other than much lighter periods, closer together).
I was wondering if I now feel like a 'photocopy' of myself because I am still suffering the echoes of nearly 18 months of anxiety/depression and mood swings? Or whether it's the HRT that is making me feel this way?
I am wondering if it's the HRT because this slightly muted, disconnected version of myself that I nnow feel, feels quite similar to how I felt when I took ADs when I had post natal depression. And my post natal depression mainly presented as extreme anxiety and feelings of hopelessness too, which makes me suspicious.
Just wondered if anyone else felt the same (I know Greenfield does) or whether they had any thoughts?
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When I started HRT, Evorel Conti.
It really did make me feel "just like my old self again"
Mind you, I was 54 and probably well post menopause.
I wasn't aware of this as I was able to stay on the pill till I got to 54.
That was 6 months before I started the Evorel and it probably masked
my meno symptoms. When I stopped the pill I wasn't too bad, except my MS kicked off big style.
That was sorted when I started using Evorel.
Perhaps the Evorel patches are just having the same effect as the pill?
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I am not on HRT but am questioning the 'change' in myself as well and whether this is directly related to hormone changs, whether it is natural changes with age (I mean beliefs and values changing) or whether it's just the whole lot and totally 'normal'. There are key points of change in all of us through life, where we feel different somehow - puperty, leaving home, settling down etc and I although at the moment I am not liking the 'new me' very much, in some ways, in other ways I am just seeing what positive things are coming as well.
Things like my motivation has changed and mostly I feel a bit frustrated with that, but actually it means I am beginning to focus on different things.
I'm not sure this answer really helps with your question as to whether HRT will help you feel more yourself, but I can empathise with the feeling :)
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GypsyRoseLee - Brightlight is right - I think 'The Change' is not just hormonal. I really don't think we should look on HRT as a way to feel 'like our old self'. For some women it really can work wonders but for many of us it is simply a way to be free of the worst meno symptoms that make us feel rotten. I have always found that HRT brings some compromises. I think we should look forwards and find new ways to be stronger and better - looking back and trying to be the same as we were 5 or 10 years ago will always make one feel dissatisfied. I certainly find my mental state is far better when on HRT but at 59 I have come to terms with the fact I will never be 'my old self' (I don't think I would want to be now) - I have moved on. DG x
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I think when I posted a topic about expecting too much from HRT it was similar as what Brightlight and DG are saying,I personally have come to terms now that the old me has gone forever. The term change of life was coined for a reason but not all change has to be a negative. I do feel more settled presently now I have managed to take that on board and stopped looking for what I believe to be the impossible and making the most of what life has to offer now.
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Limp can I ask you what birth control pill you took to 54? Thinking about them.
thanks
tara
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Some interesting points. I am still very peri, and only 44 so I suppose I don't think it too much to ask to feel like I felt only 5 years ago? But if I was post menopause and moving toward my 60s then I wouldn't expect to feel the same emotionally as I did at 35 or 40.
I am aware that as I am still very peri, and my moods and anxiety are all over the place so it's likely that most of the time my psyche doesn't know what the Hell is going on. I am hoping that once I am post menopause that my psyche will find it easier to cope.
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No, I don't feel the same at all but I'm almost 55 now and started this nonsense in my mid 40s. So it's been going on for about ten years. I'm ten years older, I tire more easily, I like a quieter life....I'm different.
Is it age or is it meno or more probably a combination of both. We really can't expect to feel the same forever.
I think it's wrong to try and achieve what we had before as that will only leave us disappointed and dissatisfied with what we have.
The future is unknown for everyone and we have to make the most of what we have and accept it will be different.
What other options are there really ?
Honeybun
X
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Limp can I ask you what birth control pill you took to 54? Thinking about them.
thanks
tara
Hi - I took Loestrin 20 for 10 years till I was 54, then GP wanted me to stop the pill altogether.
Before that I was using Microgynon 30 which suited me well but GP wanted me to go onto a lower dose pill, fair enough, so started on Loestrin. This took some getting used to, I got very crabby when I first started taking Loestrin.
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Yes GRL see what you are saying big difference between 55 and 44 ,I think the last time I saw the old me was when I was 48 and I know it sounds ridiculous but I can actually pinpoint the day ! But it's taken me from then to now to except she ain't that same person anymore,spent years hounding this Dr that Dr to get some semblance of normality and by and large I have some bits better some bits worse but not the same .
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Can I ask how you feel about the last few weeks? Sounds strange I know but when I think back to how bad I felt during my breakdown it almost takes me back there? If you know what I mean? Like a constant reminder, certain songs or TV programmes even things in the house that I remember just staring at ??? How do you stop these things from reminding you and re living things?
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Gypsy - I am just 45 and I really do feel very different from when I was 40 and I never expected to, had no idea really. As I said, I am not certain it is all to do with hormones but if it is, then it's a natural change/period of development. This is MY time for changes to happen - I hate that my cycle isn't reliable, or even the sense of it. I am very sensitive to changes in my body and it hasn't felt at optimum in this way for a couple of year, very subtle, no real signs of change back then, in terms of regularity etc, but something is changing. But it's not just my cycles, it's just about everything, from changes with work and family to my habits. Somethings are rock steady core parts of my life and personality, those will never change, but subtle differences are apparent.
For some, it might happen without hormonal shifts at 44/45 and some at 50/51 but it would be interesting to see if women generally find a change in their mid 40's regardless of menopause timing. Changes to hair, skin, motivations, body shape......... they perhaps happen anyway. It's something I am still struggling with - the moving on into a new phase and I definately don't want to see that as a decline :) It's just different - my whole attitude to work has changed, life in general, but it started a couple of years ago.
Maybe the hormonal roller coaster is just an added 'bonus' to shake things up a bit as we emerge anew - same thing happens at puberty and to be honest, the bit in between is messy :)
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Really interesting discussion!
For me, it all happened so suddenly that I am sure it was hormonal and not simply another life stage. I went from no symptoms at all, incredibly fit and active and very happy with life to someone who I simply didn't recognise within three months. I had a miscarriage (aged 40) which seemed to be the changing point. Within weeks I was in agony (shoulder and then ankle), having palpitations, tingling extremities and shooting pains down my arms. The anxiety started soon afterwards, not helped by the fact I had to see a cardiologist first and then told I may have MS. Since then, my periods have become very regular (never been all my life) my boobs have got bigger (despite blood tests revealing very low oestrogen) and the cyclical pattern of anxiety has been there throughout.
HRT and the pill have since both eased matters - in that I feel more in control - but still the weird crushing fatigue and occasional mood dips appear at times within my cycle.
My mum and her mum didn't have any signs of menopause until their mid 50s, so I'm convinced that it was the hormonal chaos that some how fast forwarded me into peri menopause. I am now almost resigned to the fact that the 'old me' will not return as a mirror copy and am instead trying to learn to love the new me (!)
Initially my GP was convinced it was all in my head and diagnosed ADs, but luckily the physical symptoms remained so he let me see a specialist. I had nothing against taking ADs, but got frustrated they were prescribed as a 'sticking plaster' rather getting to the route of my problems.
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Fingers crossed my mood still seems to be improving after my awful depressed/anxious episode of the last week and a half :) And, I am very, very grateful that (hopefully) HRT will really help even out my mood swings/anxiety etc.
But since starting HRT, even when I'm having a 'good' couple of weeks I am very aware that I'm not precisely the same as I used to be before this peri roller coaster started. It's very subtle, and I think only I would be able to tell the difference but I feel like a 'photocopy' of my old self. A photocopy that is just very, very slightly out of focus.
I also feel like I have taken two steps sideways and one step backwards from where I used to stand before peri menopause.
All my peri menopause symptoms have basically been anxiety/mood swings/low mood and insomnia. So 'all in my head' so to speak. None of the classic physical symptoms yet (other than much lighter periods, closer together).
I was wondering if I now feel like a 'photocopy' of myself because I am still suffering the echoes of nearly 18 months of anxiety/depression and mood swings? Or whether it's the HRT that is making me feel this way?
I am wondering if it's the HRT because this slightly muted, disconnected version of myself that I nnow feel, feels quite similar to how I felt when I took ADs when I had post natal depression. And my post natal depression mainly presented as extreme anxiety and feelings of hopelessness too, which makes me suspicious.
Just wondered if anyone else felt the same (I know Greenfield does) or whether they had any thoughts?
Yep I absolutely do agree with you!
Having said that, I have decided to start doing yoga daily again because I find that when I do do it, I feel more grounded in my body and more my self a bit. Today was the first day I managed this in a while - so I'll see how I get on with it. I've always meditated but committing to a regular daily physical yoga practice over weeks and weeks has never really happened for me - so it will be interesting for me to see how this goes. I'm more motivated this time because I really really want to get well as soon as I can - but even if I don't, I think it will help me and my situation at the moment.
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Can I ask how you feel about the last few weeks? Sounds strange I know but when I think back to how bad I felt during my breakdown it almost takes me back there? If you know what I mean? Like a constant reminder, certain songs or TV programmes even things in the house that I remember just staring at ??? How do you stop these things from reminding you and re living things?
Of course you can ask :)
I feel very frightened by the last 18 months to be honest. It really frightens me that I can actually feel so very depressed and so incredibly anxious. The waves of despair/doom that I sometimes get are really terrifying. This last couple of weeks when I have felt so very low/anxious again really, really frightened me because it seemed to be going on for longer than normal and also because I was NOW on HRT, and so thought I would be protected.
I am partly scared/partly ashamed that I can suddenly find myself frightened of the dark again. Or suddenly frightened to be left alone in the house. Back before peri menopause I used to be one of those women with bags of self confidence and lots of aplomb. I am frankly stunned at how diminished I feel now compared to how I was less than 2 years ago.
On my 'good times' I can still flash a bit of self confidence and can still muster up some lively chattering, but it feels a bit forced. It feels rather brittle and it feels physically and emotionally draining. Whereas before it was as natural as breathing.
I know exactly what you mean about lots of things reminding you of how low you have felt. I don't have the answer. I can't seem to stop myself remembering and suffering with the echoes. These last 18 months have taught me to be really frightened of fear (if that makes sense/) and it has taught me that I can't really trust my mental stability anymore. I feel like the rug was pulled out from beneath me and ever since I have been tip toeing across very thin ice.
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I completely agree that as we get older our tastes change and our aspirations differ. Mine certainly have. I certainly no longer want to spend my evenings wearing a slinky dress and rubbing shoulders in some dim wine bar which is how I spent much of my twenties. And I am very pleased that I'm not spending my days chasing after toddlers and making inane chatter at the school gate which is how I seemed to spend most of my thirties ::)
But despite my different lifestyles and life circumstances I have always felt that the very core of me has remained completely unchanged since I was about 15? Apart from when I suffered with post natal depression I have always quite a self confident personality which verged on audacious many times. I was quite sparky tempered and impatient at times with a reputation for even being a bit intimidating occasionally I think. But I always felt very centered and grounded within myself. I was lucky in that I liked myself most of the time. I don't feel like that anymore. I feel diminished.
Since this peri journey started it's been like placing my hand and face against a mirror so that I am 'almost' touching the other me, but there's a tiny sliver of a gap in between and so we can never quite touch. It both scares me and makes me very sad :(
I am fully prepared to accept that my waist will thicken and my hair go grey and my knees will ache as I get older. I am not remotely vain and I really don't care. But I am so sad to think that I might never regain that secret spark that made me feel like me.
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I do appreciate what you say about the spark - you write very articulately. I have noticed the spark thing is still there, it is different though. Don't give up hope that the spark isn't still there & will burn bright again - I'm not going to :) x
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Oh I can so relate to what you've just posted GypsyRoseLee - that really resonates with me.
The thing I hold on to is that I overcame panic attacks in my thirties (a concerted effort on my part - took up exercise, yoga, meditation, did things that I found fearful and gave up coffee) and while, for a long time after I stopped getting panic attacks, I still feared having one ... eventually that fear went to.
So I hope in a similar way that, at some point in my life, I will be able to trust the resilience of my mental health again - however, at the moment, I'm in the furnace so to speak and I have a lot of healing to do before I'm 100% again.
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I'm trying not to give up hope. I know my spark went away when I had post natal depression but it certainly came back and stayed with me for many years afterwards :)
I am holding on to hope that once my hormones settle down after menopause then maybe my spark will come back because I won't be feeling so afraid of feeling afraid if you know what I mean? Because even in my good times I have that fear at the back of my mind that it's likely I'm going to be having a few bad 'down times' in the very near future.
So I suppose it's very hard to retain any sparkiness when you are essentially living with low level fear at the back of your mind every day.
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Yes, I know we share very similar experiences of this Greenfields.
I know when I had post natal depression I totally lost my spark for nearly 3 years. Partly the ADs zilched it I think? And even after I stopped the ADs as I had basically recovered to all intents and purposes, I seem to remember it took a long time before I felt back to my fighting weight. It had shaken me to the core that I could suddenly have become so psychologically weak and frightened and it took a long while for that shaken feeling to fade away. I didn't feel 100% mentally robust but carried on plugging away anyway and after some months it did fade. And up until 18 months ago I had largely forgotten how dreadful the PND had made me feel all those years ago.
Just like you, I want to be able to trust my mental health stability again. I want to be able to look forward to something in 6 weeks time without it occurring to me that I might be very low/anxious on the day.
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I really miss that :-\ being able to look forward to something without even thinking about "will I be ok? Will I have lost the plot? Will I be in the loony bin by then? ;D :-X at the moment I'm starting to worry about our holiday coming up, it's not until end of July but things are starting to bubble ::)
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I know Estelle, I really know.
We go away again in about 2 months and already I'm thinking 'Oh dear, what if?' ::)
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Oh can relate to that one (re:holiday) ... I was hoping to go to Canada in July but I still don't know whether I will be well enough to make a trip and I can't book anything until I'm sure ... actually had a conversation with someone recently about how to arrange that my rent continues to get paid if I go over to Canada, get sick on holiday, end up in a psych ward for several months and my tenancy is up for renewal in the UK! The plan (if I'm well enough to make a trip) is to set up a monthly standing order for rent from the day its due again (as I had to pay 6 months up front when I got ill) so that it will get paid in my absence even if I haven't signed a renewed tenancy!
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I can sympathise with this too, Estelle. It's that 'what if' thing, isn't it? It makes me so annoyed to think of all the opportunities I have turned down - or else things I have gone to and really not enjoyed because I spent the whole time feeling weird and counting down until it was time to go home again! I look back on pre peri holidays, three years ago, when I was so care free and excited about life. So unfair, isn't it? :(
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I miss that carefree excited feeling you used to get when looking forward to something.
I think when you have suffered with peri anxiety/depression then even when it isn't actually present, it still leaves behind quite a big stain.
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But don't forget it is possible to move on and forget.
It can be so easy to pick over every tiny thing that is wrong and then it gets magnified to unmanageable proportions.
I used to tell my kids that puberty was a learning curve that we all go through. I think the menopause is exactly that.
What doesn't kill you makes you stronger.
Maybe a few motivational thoughts would be good for all of us.
Honeyb
x
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I think when you have suffered with peri anxiety/depression then even when it isn't actually present, it still leaves behind quite a big stain.
Nobody on here underestimates Peri anxiety, it's absolutely horrible, I know, it nearly destroyed my marriage.
I'd get upset about things, sit and fester and not actually discuss what was wrong with OH.
When we started to talk, I started to look at things objectively, and more to the point,
OH began to understand how I felt and started to be supportive.
I think what I'me trying to say, is if I'd let my unhappiness take over, it would have been a self perpetuating, destructive circle of misery. It wasn't at all easy to do, but it did help me to move on.
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That's exactly how I felt Limpy.
What with this meno anxiety which has been and still is very limiting, my hubbies health issues and caring for my mother I can get overwhelmed.
Talking things over with hubby or my daughter seems to break the spiral before it gets out of proportion.
It is hard to break out of the cycle but so worth while.
Honeybun
X
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I started HRT when I was just under 54 and was in late menopausal transition ( last period 5 months earlier) - and was suffering flushes and sweats etc. When I first started ( same dose oestrogen as I am on now) yes it really did make me feel like my old self again. I was full of energy and zest for life - obviously my oestrogen levels were just needing topping up to where they were before - although of course they didn't ever reach the pre-ovulatory peak again except when (if) I had another cycle in the couple of years following this. It was only gradually that my old self then receded as I went towards late 50's and now early 60's. I really do feel different now and not because of any notional ideas about age. I get very tired especially in the mornings (still trying to sort out why this is), no libido, great difficulty keeping my weight down, and really not much zest for life - mainly just on an even keel, but don't often get very excited about things - which is a pity. The other symptoms of peri-menopause passed me by (they definitely happened though!) as I didn't know it existed and hadn't thought about it - only with respect to periods - which came and went as did flushes. Probably best not to analyse it too much would say, and do what you have to do and deal with the things you have to deal with, be thankful for small things in life but don't rein yourself in because you think you should! Discover new freedoms and experiences and don't be worried about what anyone thinks!
Hurdity x
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Thank you ladies for such honest, articulate posts. Part of me wants to burst into tears, as your words resonate and remind me of all the things about my past I never appreciated at the time; yet strangely, I also feel empowered. You have helped me accept that I am not alone, and I should not feel shame in the situation I now find myself; I am probably a far more sympathetic and understanding person than I was - and would have been - and I appreciate people and things in life I'd previously have dismissed. I'd never have chosen for my life to take this direction, but with your help, I'm beginning to accept that Planet Peri is not quite the prison I'd first imagined! X
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I so agree GRL I def have a nasty big stain as a constant reminder >:(
My issue is that I'm not actually sure if I am even peri or not? I originally started BHRT due to low mood and slight lingering depression from I suspect from PND 21 years ago! My estrogen level was on the low side of "normal" and my testosterone was very very low.
I know it sounds odd but if it was confirmed that I am in fact "peri" i could deal with all the horrible anxiety etc easier because there would be a reason, I hate the thought of me being/feeling like this for no reason :-\
I used to love anything to do with psychology like how the mind works, what makes people tick and what makes people commit awful crimes etc but now it all terrifies me! Anything to do with mental health really frightens me now :-\
My husband had a bit of a meltdown a few years ago now due to stress at work etc and if he even says anything remotely like he feels down or low or miserable I panic and think he's heading there again and there's nothing I can do :-\ he wasn't half as bad as when I had my breakdown 3 years ago but the thought of him being like that, I don't want to even think about it. Same with my youngest who has taken too many paracetamol and ended up in hospital 3 times because of low self esteem, low mood and horrible kids at school, when she tells me she's feeling low it's like my stomach sinks, it's a constant worry and always there in the back of my mind, she's been much better since moving schools and having counselling but I fear that for the rest of her life she will have the "memories" like we do about how bad and low we've felt, almost like a life sentence :(
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Same with my youngest who has taken too many paracetamol and ended up in hospital 3 times because of low self esteem, low mood and horrible kids at school, when she tells me she's feeling low it's like my stomach sinks, it's a constant worry and always there in the back of my mind, she's been much better since moving schools and having counselling but I fear that for the rest of her life she will have the "memories" like we do about how bad and low we've felt, almost like a life sentence :(
Well she might ... but then again she might not. My experience with panic attacks in my 20's and 30's was that they left a long trace of 'fear' for quite a while but then, at some point, there was a turning point where I stopped fearing and just started living. And then there came a time where I was teaching yoga to incarcerated women who experienced a lot of anxiety and panic attacks ... and because I'd been through what I'd been through and because I was open with them about that, I became a role model to them in terms of the fact that it is possible to move on from panic attacks and have a life - and that gave me a new perspective on what I'd been through earlier in my life and the value of that experience that I could bring to my yoga teaching to others ... and that strengthened me - made me realise how far I'd come on my own personal journey.
The only thing that messed this sense of strength up was that noone told me that if you have anxiety/panic attacks earlier in your life it makes you more susceptible to them coming back at menopause :-\ ... now if I'd known that, I wouldn't have fallen into my current mess quite so badly :'(
BTW if you can encourage her to try yoga that might help - its good for emotional balance.