Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: SallyG on June 08, 2015, 05:18:37 AM
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Dear Ladies,
just a big thank you for the responses I have been getting on this blog. I do have to work. My OH works abroad so we have to run two homes. I have found the responsibility of that crushing whilst Ive been ill and signed off. He phoned from florence yesterday and I was upset and stressed about work and my boss. I know he then worries and then I feel guilty. I don't know whether I am just incredibly delusional but I did expect my boss to be a bit more understanding about my phase-in. Occ health are telling me to look after myself and I am trying to do that.Its tricky to say the least trying to negotiate the demands of the workplace with this illness/condition and with depression thrown in. :'(I went to something called 'resilience training'. And the guy was very good but was telling me things like "you can go and talk to HR confidentially whenever you want". So naively I called the HR rep for my department and it is not the case at all. People just seem to be crashing around, and giving out woolly advice. That's why HR stuff has to be so clear and boundaried I guess. I find it interesting but scary at the same time.
I have received a lot of support from every direction and so I should be grateful. But I also think its a tough time for us women who are not in the "sailing through" gang. The world of the workplace seems to be divided up into the women that sail through and the women who don't…………
Hugs and dare I say it love to all of you
Sallyxxxx
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Hi Sally
It's good to hear you are back at work, take it steady.
As for the 'sailing through' gang, well they just make me cross because they are the ones that have the 'pull yourself together' attitude and genuinely don't have a clue what us sufferers do go through, and then they have the nerve to say 'it's ok, I understand'. I don't think they are the real women, we are because we are the ones living through this awful time in our lives.
Good luck with work SallyG.
Shellb
xXx
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Dear Shelb, thanks for your response.
xxx
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I wish you well and hope it gets easier for you. I am struggling at work at the moment and have been for a while. It's not easy is it.
Hope you have a good day.
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Hi Sally
I know just how you feel. I am struggling at work right now, and finding it so hard to be bright and cheerful in front of clients and other members of staff.
As for the 'sailing through gang' well, take their opinions with a pinch of salt. My mother in law insists that she 'sailed through' the menopause. But she also insists that her and my father in law have a happy marriage (even though he spends all his time away from her doing his hobby) and she also insists that my sister in law isn't 'really' gay, even though she has been happily living with her female partner for 3 years ::)
And even if they're genuinely 'sailing through' (lucky bloody them) but for them to act so cavalier and thoughtlessly in the face of someone who is clearly really struggling makes them rather unpleasant, insensitive twats. Well, that's my opinion anyway ;)
Just remember that one day you will recover from this peri nightmare, but they're unlikely to recover from being thoughtless idiots. Poor them, I say.
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she also insists that my sister in law isn't 'really' gay, even though she has been happily living with her female partner for 3 years ::)
This tickled me - hopefully your sister-in-law has the sense not to be bothered by it :)
And even if they're genuinely 'sailing through' (lucky bloody them) but for them to act so cavalier and thoughtlessly in the face of someone who is clearly really struggling makes them rather unpleasant, insensitive twats. Well, that's my opinion anyway ;)
Just remember that one day you will recover from this peri nightmare, but they're unlikely to recover from being thoughtless idiots. Poor them, I say.
I'm quite heartened by those who say they sail through it - it's a kind of proof that it can all be well again, and we're not condemned to being some shrivelled up shadows of our former selves, we just need a little help from a few cheeky little hormones and we'll be on that path with them :)
GG x
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Glad I made you smile GG
My MIL thinks this is just 'a silly phase' her daughter is going through, and that she will grow out of it eventually. My SIL is well into her 30s, so I think it's highly unlikely ::)
My SIL isn't remotely bothered she knows her Mum is a bit daft but basically good hearted.
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Many thanks for your responds. I was beginning to feel like billy no mates yesterday but not today!!
Yes i am back at work but still feel weird and hormone y. It really is a weird time. It feels like stress. But its hormones. I guess thats why people share about anxiety so much because the symptoms present as depression and anxiety - as has been proven by the top gynaecologist researcher in the world John Studd. Bloody annoying really.
Your messages cheered me up at work.
Best wishes
Sally
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I would give anything for my symptoms to present as the classic hot flushes and dry hair and headaches. I really would.
But instead mine present as random depression and anxiety too. I tried talking about it to a colleague at work yesterday but as soon as I mentioned the anxiety and depression I could see the shutters go down in her face. Apparently she never experienced anything like that, and neither did any of her friends either. They just had a few hot flushes and that was that. With the inference that I am just anxious and depressed for some other reason.
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Dear Gypsy Rose Lee. Yes I know its ridiculous isn't it. Also I was quite taken aback by someone withdrawing from this forum because of all of the talk about anxiety. Its one of the most common symptoms and we who have to work have to cope with being ill at work and not really allowed to disclose it for fear of being judged or worse complained about, so I feel I have been judged on this forum for it. But I am unrepentant. If I can moan on this site, where can I moan?
SallyGxxxx
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How bizarre. It's one of the most common symptoms of the menopause, isn't it?
There's so many women on here who suffer with hot flushes. I have never had one, but I wouldn't think to withdraw from MM just because I couldn't identify with how a hot flush makes you feel. What makes us human is our ability to empathise with things we have no personal experience of, surely?
Telling someone with hormonal anxiety to 'get a grip' or whatever is cruel and ridiculous. Would the same person tell someone with diabetes to 'get a grip'. We have no more control over our hormones, than a diabetic has control over their own insulin.
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Hi SallyG
pleased to hear you're feeling better now. Your boss sounds a winner, not.
Because I have always suffered from anxiety I find it difficult to determine whether the Menopause has made it any worse. I did virtually escape from the hot flushes because I am on citalopram so I had nothing dreadful as some people suffer. I wouldnt crow about it though. I have a friend who had awful night sweats and hot flushes at work and she works full time. Makes me feel very feeble. My problem is extreme tiredness. I just dont seem to have the energy that others have. I work part time but even that is hard sometimes. I have had an underactive thyroid for over 20 years but take medication which supposedly deals with that.
I admire you Sally for returning to work and coping under very difficult circumstances.
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SallyG,
These postings about anxiety, being at work, such a tonic. As am at work today, fighting off a anxiety attack. Since peri has started my anxiety is ridiculous - trying to manage and carry on as normal so no one suspects anything, at work at least. Reading about other women's experiences is so helpful. To know you are not the only one going thru it when it seems everyone around you is carrying on right as rain. I can only take it one day at a time. Keep persevering all!
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Sally you are doing so well - just keep reminding yourself of that.
As others have said, I don't think people have a clue as to what people go through with menopause unless they encounter difficulties themselves.
I recounted my tale to a staff member at the building society that I had an appointment with to discuss my finances - and she causally mentioned that her mother had had some problems but took HRT and was fine now. When I explained I'd had a nervous breakdown arising from the actions I took while ill with a menopausal imbalance, she said well you seem normal now!
I left the building society and went to my local MIND support group who have been so kind and the facilitator said she hated when people turned around and said you seem normal now! Because just completely overlooks how people really are.
On one level I am really normal but on another level my body doesn't function well and I tire easily. My lovely Dr this morning said to me that these things can take months to recover from - I was asking her when I might be well enough to make a trip back to Canada - and I don't know whether I will be well enough in time to do that - but she held hope for me as she said that I had made such good progress in 6 weeks so to see how I was in a months time.
So remember that healing takes time and understanding - so if your boss is being unpleasant, thats hard to deal with at the best of times and dealing with it while you are still trying to adjust to getting back into the swing of things is even harder.
I wonder whether, depending on your life situation, at some point you could perhaps have a heart to heart with your partner and figure out whether there's a way to have a lifestyle that doesn't necessitate you working f/t? Perhaps going p/t somewhere else might be a more pleasant longterm option depending on your financial circumstances?
It's difficult I know because I myself am financially in a mess, living off my savings and not able to work - but one's health is really important and if you have some wiggle room there to change your lifestyle then think about doing it.
Hugs xxx
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Thanks Greenfields. Your posts always have a breath of spring air about them - a bit like your name. You are right in all you say. Health is sooo important. I went to a networking event for Women in Science tonight and there was an amazing woman doctor who is bipolar and shared really honestly about it, bless her. Thank you for taking time to give such encouragement to me.
Best SallyG
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Greenfields, I had been at work all day and then out again last night to an event for my daughter- Women in Science. So my repines was brief. I too had a depressive/physical "breakdown" through hormone depletion, and grief - had a few major bereavements of late. It took me totally by surprise and I tried to soldier on as we do because I had been off work with ecoli a few years before and didn't want to jeopardise my job (crazy but how I was thinking). I caused more damage by trying to work through it - resulting in a few emotional episodes at work so I was sent to occ health and was signed off for 5 months. That was the prediction and that is what it was. Occ health consultant knew what he was doing and was brilliant.But now I am back and it isn't easy but talking to the Dr last night helped.I find it hard to wake up in the morning fully. It seems to take an age for me to do anything, but I am trying really hard.Reading posts like yours really help.
Regards and hugs
Sally G
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I remember finding this site and actually being tearful reading so many posts about women's hormonal anxiety/depression. I can't describe the relief I felt realising that I wasn't the only one.
My GPs had nearly got me convinced that I was suffering with clinical depression and anxiety. This was despite the fact there was genuinely nothing in my life to feel depressed about and that my symptoms could completely disappear for 2-3 weeks at a time. And would then reappear like a bolt out of the blue, in a matter of seconds.
The only other time in my life I have experienced such crushing anxiety and depression was when I had post natal depression many years ago. I suffered virtually in silence back then, terrified to talk about how I felt in case I became 'labelled'.
Telling people with anxiety or depression to 'snap out of it' or to 'just go with the flow' is rather ignorant at best, and really callous at worst. Unless you have experienced what it feels like then you really do not understand how overwhelming it feels.
To try and put it in context, imagine how you would feel if you'd been for tests and your GP rang to tell you that the results weren't good and you had cancer. Well 'that' feeling of real desperate fear and despair is how my hormonal anxiety/depression now manifests (and I know because I had a cancer scare years ago and a rather insensitive GP at the time).
So it's not just 'feeling blue' or 'feeling a bit down' for God's sake, I have experienced those a hundred times and talked myself around successfully. Instead it's the sort of panic/anxiety that makes stepping under a bus feel like a viable option. So people should really think very carefully before they make sweeping statements about something they know nothing about >:(
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Greenfields, I had been at work all day and then out again last night to an event for my daughter- Women in Science. So my repines was brief. I too had a depressive/physical "breakdown" through hormone depletion, and grief - had a few major bereavements of late. It took me totally by surprise and I tried to soldier on as we do because I had been off work with ecoli a few years before and didn't want to jeopardise my job (crazy but how I was thinking). I caused more damage by trying to work through it - resulting in a few emotional episodes at work so I was sent to occ health and was signed off for 5 months. That was the prediction and that is what it was. Occ health consultant knew what he was doing and was brilliant.But now I am back and it isn't easy but talking to the Dr last night helped.I find it hard to wake up in the morning fully. It seems to take an age for me to do anything, but I am trying really hard.Reading posts like yours really help.
Regards and hugs
Sally G
Dear SallyG
Thank you so much for sharing - and I'm glad my posts help you because I am struggling myself so much at the moment and its nice to know that there is something I can do to support another xxx
It's also very helpful to hear about your breakdown because I am really struggling with the financial impact of mine and I've met a few people who've had breakdowns and I get the sense that time to heal is critical. It was so nice to hear the Dr say that I had done so well in 6 weeks yesterday. However, it was also hard to hear that it can take months to feel better - I love my Drs honesty but it scares me as I feel under so much pressure to get well which I'm putting myself under but it's difficult not to given my circumstances. I have to let my landlord know by mid-August whether I am going to renew my tenancy agreement and if I am not well enough to go back to Canada, then I will have to renew and cannot break the agreement for 6 months. And I do want to make a visit to Canada first before I move back to check I can manage the stress of it.
However, if I don't get back to Canada this year, then I will be struck off my ex-spouse's health plan next year when it comes up for review with the separation agreement. I'll also probably have my spousal support stopped which isn't much but helps and I would hate to lose it.
At the moment I tell myself that, if I have to renew the tenancy, I will and I'll get a job and earn some money and my savings will still go down but hopefully won't go down as fast - and then, if I'm able to at some point and still have enough money, I can return to Canada or maybe I will make some sort of life here - although difficult to know how that is going to pan out with the housing situation.
But, when I write and remind you that health is important I am also reminding me! Because I am glad I have my mental health back even though I often feel fragile ... it's one step at a time.
Hugs xxx
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BTW so great to hear about the doctor who has bipolar disorder sharing her experience.
I've read a couple of great books about individuals who have professional careers and have managed major mental health issues - and I've found them so inspiring and helpful to read - to know that it is possible to manage mental health issues and get back on track with work.
One was called The Centre Cannot Hold by Elyn Saks. The other is called The Last Asylum: A Memoir of Madness in Our Times by Barbara Taylor (that book is a bit more difficult to read as she reflects on the impact that closing asylums and moving people to community care has had on mental health services as well as reflecting on her own journey through mental illness). Elyn Saks has a TED talk too which is very inspiring - here: http://www.ted.com/talks/elyn_saks_seeing_mental_illness?language=en
Both women had the financial means to have extensive psychoanalysis which held them together through the worst of things - unfortunately that's not an option for people who don't have the money as the main medical treatments these days tend to be drugs and the ITalk CBT which can be helpful but is not the same as psychoanalysis - which is more expensive.
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Greenfields - is your spousal support UK-based?
As for depression: when I told my Mum in 1989 that I was depressed I was told : "Don't lead your husband a dance as your father led me" - well thanks for that. Another phrase was "Oh you're poor husband". Well actually, it's me that's depressed :'(. I never told her again. When I had breast disease in the 1990s I didn't tell any family members until almost 12 months after I had finished treatment, I was by then mentally strong and had a good prognosis. I decided that my state of health is nothing to do with anyone else except my GP and DH ;).
I have organic depression hitting me from both sides: also, one Grandfather was a gambler so there's a bit of OCD too, a granny had what was probably PND - she 'went away' after her 4th child was born, the Doctor had told her not to have any more after her 2nd but what was a woman to do in the 1920s …… babies happened. She suffered anxiety ever after. She didn't influence me, was generally more relaxed by then, but genetically :-\ ?
Depression can be fatal. Bi-polar can be managed though I prefer the diagnosis "manic depression" - bi meaning 2 of when those with it usually have many in-between moods. Dad could be deeply depressed, or very very high when he didn't sleep and his brain was 'on the go', or he could be OK. I think some of his was hormonally based too.
…. and don't get me started on closing the 'asylums' and how 'care in the community' works - it doesn't! :'( Why is it OK to have Wards dedicated to other Specialities with trained Staff in safe situations but not mental health problems …. sorry OT :-X
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CLKD
Saying that depression isn't that bad because 'it isn't fatal' (I saw that very (un)helpful comment on here too) is rather ridiculous. Very few happy and contented people kills themselves I think?
I completely agree that much of what we can suffer emotionally is hardwired into us.
My Grannie had a reputation for being 'very highly strung'. In fact I think she suffered with extreme PMS, as my Mum remembers her Mum having regular 'panic episodes' always round about the time it was my Mum's turn to be class monitor (which was once a month).
Not a coincidence surely.
My Auntie had also always been 'very highly strung' some of her exploits would make your eyes :o But she too suffered with extreme PMS I think. I recall my Mum getting extremely tearful and/or highly agitated on a fairly regular basis. Extreme PMS again?
You inherit so many physical conditions, so why not emotional conditions?
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Of course parents have a Life before the children arrive ::) so any anxieties will be taken on board for the children; and if that is carried on up the generations, i.e. back to Grandparents and before …… my Mum would say 'you'll be OK when you get there' and usually I was but that didn't help me deal with the awful pre-event anxiety :'(
I dreaded interviews ::) ……… somehow I managed to get my first job which I enjoyed, small firm and everyone friendly. I didn't encounter company politics until much later on >:( - now I'm older I wouldn't put up with the crap I put up with in those days ;D ……. 'I'm menopausal and I know how to shout' ;)
I think 1 has to put one's head down, eat often and regularly, do one's job and keep colleagues at arm's length; and occasionally have a good strop!
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Greenfields - is your spousal support UK-based?
As for depression: when I told my Mum in 1989 that I was depressed I was told : "Don't lead your husband a dance as your father led me" - well thanks for that. Another phrase was "Oh you're poor husband". Well actually, it's me that's depressed :'(. I never told her again. When I had breast disease in the 1990s I didn't tell any family members until almost 12 months after I had finished treatment, I was by then mentally strong and had a good prognosis. I decided that my state of health is nothing to do with anyone else except my GP and DH ;).
I have organic depression hitting me from both sides: also, one Grandfather was a gambler so there's a bit of OCD too, a granny had what was probably PND - she 'went away' after her 4th child was born, the Doctor had told her not to have any more after her 2nd but what was a woman to do in the 1920s …… babies happened. She suffered anxiety ever after. She didn't influence me, was generally more relaxed by then, but genetically :-\ ?
Depression can be fatal. Bi-polar can be managed though I prefer the diagnosis "manic depression" - bi meaning 2 of when those with it usually have many in-between moods. Dad could be deeply depressed, or very very high when he didn't sleep and his brain was 'on the go', or he could be OK. I think some of his was hormonally based too.
…. and don't get me started on closing the 'asylums' and how 'care in the community' works - it doesn't! :'( Why is it OK to have Wards dedicated to other Specialities with trained Staff in safe situations but not mental health problems …. sorry OT :-X
No my spousal support is Canadian based ... and linked to Canadian costs of living and rents (the latter being an awful lot lower).
If I hadn't had my breakdown in March and gone back to Canada, I could at least have said I got some professional work experience in the UK and that would have been a stepping stone in doing the Masters course I had a place on ... but now I don't so it's all a mess. I keep trying to forgive myself for reacting to the panic attack I had which caused me to withdraw from my move ... I didn't know it was a panic attack and I wasn't well ... but I find myself replaying in mind where I would be if I hadn't reacted the way I had. I would be in a lot better position back in Canada with a Masters to look forward to doing in the Fall.
Re: depression - yes there is a strong genetic component for sure.
Re: closing the asylums - that's what Barbara Taylor says too - that it was a mistake - its too much for someone to cope as an individual with mental health issues - they need much more support. I know I'm struggling at the moment even though I have reached out and got as much support as I can within the community I live and I'm trying to do everything I possibly can to get better - my Dr is really pleased with me and I have to try and stay hopeful but it's so hard. I was talking to the ITalk counsellor today (20 minutes on the phone!) and made the point that all the big worries for me are socially related - housing, income - basic safety stuff. And its so difficult not to worry given the way there is so little safety net for people who have the misfortune to become ill like me and don't have other support to fall back on.
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Thanks Melly and Mrs Mopp,
yes I guess I am brave. This last two weeks have been a real mixture. My boss is being very hard and playing everything by the book.I feel under pressure majorly at times, at others Im glad Ive gone back. It makes me step up and engage which ultimately is good. I can't languish at home for ever - doesn't seem to do the depression any good. I am feeling rather sorry for myself.
Sally G
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SallyG you are vulnerable. Could you not take your boss to one side and ask what his agenda is? Does the attitude impact on your work? When I had a boss who was always looking behind him in case what he did/said affected *his* position, I thought of him on the loo with trousers round his ankles ;). However, having worked in the NHS with a harridan of a female supervisor when I was too young to have a quick retort, I can well understand how any one with 'attitude' can affect how others manage to complete a day's work!
:bighug:
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Hi Sally, I know just what you mean about going back to work helping in some ways. Languishing at home leads to low mood and depression I find. It is best to get out and be with people for some of the day. Not all of the day though, I do like some time to myself. I take it you're not able to move to part-time work? You probably said earlier in the thread .
Shame about your unhelpful boss >:(