Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => Personal Experiences => Topic started by: hellen on June 01, 2015, 11:28:54 PM
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Hi all, what can you tell me about vaginal prolapse... i have seen several gynes, but the last one decided i have a vaginal prolapse on the bowel wall side... strangely enough, i have mentioned to several gynes over the years, that area was where i was experiencing discomfort, but its not been mentioned before.. any of your own experiences with prolapse would be welcome.. thank you xx
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I've just been diagnosed with a prolapse, both sides. I mentioned the difficulties of emptying my bowels to my GP, who told me to report this to the gynaecologist who I was seeing the next week. I had thought this was yet another IBS symptom, but have been feeling pressure and discomfort during and following opening my bowels recently. I am now waiting for an appointment to see a consultant. I wish I could afford to go privately, so that I wouldn't have to wait as it is becoming a daily stress to do my 'business'.
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Hi there...
In fairness, vaginal prolapses can be very hard to diagnose and it seems very hard for even the best spcialists to be able to 'see' the extent of your problem. I had my first major prolapse at the age of about 35 and then had to have it done about 15 years later after life and a lot of heavy lifting had taken their toll. On both occasions, the severity only showed up under aneasthetic.
You will probably be recommended Pelvic Floor Exercises which really can help strenghten the muscles and tighten up the pelvic floor before deciding the next course of action. Basically I think that is either putting up with it, wearing a 'ring' to support the pelvic floor or surgery.
For me, surgery was the only option and did do the trick. It was not an easy ride, but there were no horror stories.
Good luck!
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Can I ask what symptoms you have had from vaginal prolapse?
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I have those symptoms Sparkle - I thought it was VA - the soreness seems to be right on the neck of the bladder/urethra - I wonder what causes that? It seems to be worse when I have difficulty emptying my bladder. Or maybe it's not emptying sufficiently that's causing the soreness? Nothing seems to help although I find if I keep 'regular' in the bowel department it's less uncomfortable. Maybe a bunged up bowel has the same effect of putting pressure on like the fibroids do with you? It's a minefield isn't it!
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Can you not have vagifem and fibroids? I use local oestrogen and have a fibroid - which appeared to have shrunk last time it was checked...
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Hi sparkle,
'Yes' water based vaginal moisturiser is what I think you are after. If you contact their website and ask for a free sample to see if it suits you, they will send it very quickly. I find it very soothing.
Hope it helps!
Jenna x
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I've had a bladder prolapse (cystocele) and a womb prolapse. I had the womb removed last summer via a vaginal hysterectomy plus an anterior repair for the prolapse. Obviously the hysterectomy worked :) but the anterior repair is already beginning to fail. I am currently seeing a pelvic floor specialist nurse once every six weeks and have been given a pelvic floor exercise programme just for me! Things are improving. At my great age (61) repeated surgeries for prolapse are not recommended but I find it really upsetting that I still have to put up with the side effects when I really thought that by having the op I would be one of the 60% who was cured.
My vaginal walls are also very thin and weak and the nurse said that research is now being done on tissue type. If you have genetically weak tissues then you are more likely to develop prolapse once you approach menopause. The research means that in the future tissue types will be tested and if found to be weak then prolapse surgery will be reconsidered as the failure rate can be high.
I would stress that pelvic floor exercises are essential no matter what stage your prolapse is. It can make so much difference. It is important to combine fast exercises with slow ones. My programme is fifteen fast pull ups - just pull your pelvic floor muscles up and let them go straight away - followed by five sustained pull ups each one held for the count of six (it was five but I'm progressing!). These are to be done four times a day. It doesn't seem very much but it is beginning to make a difference. Also the DVD's by Michelle Kenway are well worth getting.
Taz x
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I had a total prolapse at 23. The cervix was very low and felt sore after sex, I had my hysterectomy and cervix removed aged 32 after trying the electric waves and ring (that used to 'ping' out at inappropriate times if I as much as crouched. I declined the repair but was tightened vaginally whilst having the op
losing the uterus and cervix helped no end
Annie xx
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It's great when it works Annie - you were so young to have a prolapse - it must have been very difficult for you!
If you have weak vaginal tissue then removing the uterus and cervix can make things tricky for the vagina as they are an anchor. My big fear is vaginal vault prolapse so I am lifting and squeezing as instructed ;D
Taz x
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It's great when it works Annie - you were so young to have a prolapse - it must have been very difficult for you!
If you have weak vaginal tissue then removing the uterus and cervix can make things tricky for the vagina as they are an anchor. My big fear is vaginal vault prolapse so I am lifting and squeezing as instructed ;D
Taz x
Yes damaged sphincter in bowel during birth no1 then birth no2 I had ruptured placenta and haemorrhaged and as a result of staff pulling and tugging the prolapse developed
Annie xx
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When I try to read about prolapses it seems that the main symptom is that you see part of your vagina or rectum outside of your body. Is this always true?
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I think that's extreme cases, my cervix was visible but I couldn't see anything else
My mum knee about mine and my sisters yet mentioned nothing of hers
When mum was in a coma, a nurse took me to one side and said was I aware of her prolapse ? I said she'd never mentioned it . The nurse said its the worst she had ever seen so I'm guessing my poor mums was visible :-(
Annie xx
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Prolapses are visible outside of the body as they worsen - and it's important to remember that loads of them don't and remain manageable. Especially with uterine prolapse as it drops further into the vaginal canal then it can eventually rub on your knickers as your walk - a very uncomfortable feeling - and even become sore enough to bleed. As Annie says this the extreme end result in some cases. It stands to reason that if some tissue is weak then the rest of the tissue will become weak as well. Lots of it depends on the cause of the prolapse. I had my hysterectomy as I didn't want to end up in a couple of years time with everything just prolapsing out and having to have emergency surgery.
The important thing to remember is that the earlier it is diagnosed and treated the better.
Your poor mum Annie. My mum always called it Dropsy in whispered tones.
Taz x
Taz x
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Is THAT what Dropsy was? I thought it was an oedema thing. Blimey.
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It is sad Taz , as we were so close I thought we discussed literally everything
When she confided in me that she had vaginal dryness and didn't want sex anymore it was me that talked it through with my dad to leave her be in that dept
she never went to docs and certainly never hospital so I guess she kept it quiet as she knew I'd push for her to get it seen to
Annie xx
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After my second set of prolapses I was advised that pelvic floor exercises and avoiding heavy lifting would help avoid a recurrence. So far so good. :)
PS I also understood that 'Dropsy' was a build up of oedema!
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Yes it's a build up of fluid in the womb so maybe it was just a term used in Suffolk for the womb dropping down. Things were often getting "dropsied" in my house!
It's sad that your mum couldn't share Annie but, even now, it's difficult for us to talk about such a personal thing as prolapse so it would be something that she kept private and to herself I would think. I still feel it must have been something I did - although the pelvic floor nurse is working hard to change that view!
Taz x
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The only thing you did Taz was have three kids and live your life.
Funny how women blame themselves when there is no need.
Men don't seem to have the same problem ::)
Honeyb
x
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How right you are honeyb!
Taz x
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I was told that mine was the result of childbirth ...
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I think I've got cystocele and rectocele - referred for physio - neither cause much problem as far as I can see, but has anyone got hold of the Hab-It DVD which I've seen talked about on here (I think?). Heard really good things about it but last time I looked it was nearly £40 and had to come from the US.
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Yes they are as a result of childbirth but until the weak tissue link was explained to me I didn't understand how I had three children and had all of these problems and friends of mine with four and in one case six children don't have any problems whatsoever. Felt I must have not been good enough at the pelvic floor exercises but, apparently, it's not something that I could have prevented. Sorry about your fibroids sparkle.
ancient runner - brilliant that you have been referred for physio - hope it stops any further prolapsing. Not heard of the Hab-It DVD.
Taz x
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Good luck, sparkle. You do need to know what's what. It sounds a very miserable situation for you.
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Have been analyzing how I'm doing a little bit. Often my poo comes pretty fast in the mornings. But, then, I quite often feel the urge again. A lot of the times I have to help the little bit that is stuck by "splinting" (think that is what it's called when you push between vagina and rectum?). Sometimes when I do this I also have an urge to urinate.... Weird...Does this sound typical of prolapse at all??
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Yes, have read that people do that. There is a very good thread on Mumsnet about prolapses - full of people supporting each other through all sorts of ops and treatments.
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It is a definite sign of prolapse 20032003 but it is usually one of the more later signs. Once you get to splinting then you really do need to consult a gynae for a proper examination.
Taz
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It is a definite sign of prolapse 20032003 but it is usually one of the more later signs. Once you get to splinting then you really do need to consult a gynae for a proper examination.
Taz
Hm. Maybe that is NOT the problem then? I mean, if I had a serious prolapse the gyno should have seen this in March, right? Even if I didn't specifically mention typical symptoms at that time? I came to see the gyno because of my rectal problems and the fact that the GP had mentioned that he thought my uterus might be enlarged (which it wasn't, but it was retroverted according to gyno).
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Was reading that best way to Poo is to sit on loo with your feet on small stool or similar and lean as far forward as you can go - this opens bowel properly and since I have been doing this a lot more has come out and my prolapse feelings have been much better. Hope this isnt TMIF,
You just want to make sure the bathroom door is locked!
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No, it's not TMI. I'm not that sensitive.... ;) Thanks for your tips!
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It is a definite sign of prolapse 20032003 but it is usually one of the more later signs. Once you get to splinting then you really do need to consult a gynae for a proper examination.
Taz
Hm. Maybe that is NOT the problem then? I mean, if I had a serious prolapse the gyno should have seen this in March, right? Even if I didn't specifically mention typical symptoms at that time? I came to see the gyno because of my rectal problems and the fact that the GP had mentioned that he thought my uterus might be enlarged (which it wasn't, but it was retroverted according to gyno).
My gynae never mentioned my prolapse to me until I did! Unless you mention typical symptoms they tend not to mention it as many women never have symptoms and the general opinion is to leave well alone if it's not causing discomfort. Were you examined standing up or were you asked to bear down and cough while being examined? It could be that rather than having a proper prolapse you have got weak vaginal walls? It's a very complicated condition.
Taz x
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I had a Gynae appt today and during the examination he asked me to cough, he touched a part of my left inside and asked if it was sensitive, which it was then didn't say why ! I thought he'd mention something after I got dressed but said everything was ok
Annie xx
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It is a definite sign of prolapse 20032003 but it is usually one of the more later signs. Once you get to splinting then you really do need to consult a gynae for a proper examination.
Taz
Hm. Maybe that is NOT the problem then? I mean, if I had a serious prolapse the gyno should have seen this in March, right? Even if I didn't specifically mention typical symptoms at that time? I came to see the gyno because of my rectal problems and the fact that the GP had mentioned that he thought my uterus might be enlarged (which it wasn't, but it was retroverted according to gyno).
My gynae never mentioned my prolapse to me until I did! Unless you mention typical symptoms they tend not to mention it as many women never have symptoms and the general opinion is to leave well alone if it's not causing discomfort. Were you examined standing up or were you asked to bear down and cough while being examined? It could be that rather than having a proper prolapse you have got weak vaginal walls? It's a very complicated condition.
Taz x
No, I was flat on my back for the exam... What are the symptoms for weak vaginal walls? Are they the same as for a prolapse? And what is the actual difference between the two?
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Thank you for the advice about the use of a stool. Just dipped into this thread. Thank you for the TMI bits as you describe symptoms I experience, but haven't voiced due to embarrassment. It's so reassuring to read that I'm not the only one and to hear how others cope. Opening my bowels has become stressful, particularly when I have to get out of the house early in the morning. It was bad enough dealing with IBS.
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After my C sections I was told to put my feet on a child's step stool when going to the loo as it took the pressure off my wound and would make things much easier. It did.
It was just the right height and it was obvious that this information was routinely given.
Honeyb
x
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Thank you for the advice about the use of a stool. Just dipped into this thread. Thank you for the TMI bits as you describe symptoms I experience, but haven't voiced due to embarrassment. It's so reassuring to read that I'm not the only one and to hear how others cope. Opening my bowels has become stressful, particularly when I have to get out of the house early in the morning. It was bad enough dealing with IBS.
I think a lot of the things that we are embarrased about, are the exact same things that other people ar embarrased about too. I very rarely consider ANYTHING TMI. I think that issues have to be raised and discussed :)!
And, yes, I went to IKEA yesterday and bought a suitable bathroom stool ;)!
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I need to join this club too I'm afraid. I try to open my bowels before I leave for work in the mornings as I like to get back in the shower and clean myself properly afterwards - wish I had a bidet! It always seems as though something is left in my rectum though and I sometimes need to put my finger in my vagina and press down to push the last bit out - this makes me wee though!
I do have a genetic condition which means I lack collagen so I am wondering if it is a case of weak vaginal walls - I hope something can be done about it.
I have been reading the mumsnet prolapse threads hoping to find a recommendation for a good surgeon.
Will get myself a squatty potty and see if that helps....
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Problem is the surgery only lasts about 3-5 years on average.......and each time you have surgery you are weakening the area.......don't let anyone put mesh in you, and vast amount of law suits in Scotland going on over mesh use.
Most people would say unless it is actually on the way out leave well alone .......Judith 57 I have a real life friend who has had here's done by the guy we have both seen but sacked😏she also has PN /POTS/ hyper mobile/bladder wall infection/ vulvodynia makes us look like we have nothing wrong.......plus I belive 4-6 prolapse surgeries.......all private would these have been done on the NHS.......ummmmm
The best way of knowing how bad your prolapse is......is to have a pelvic floor scan lying down and standing up......and you will more than likely realsie it's not as bad as you think......and you can see your self very easy to interpret......I had mine done with a pelvic floor physio.
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What is POTS - whatever it is I bet I've got it :'(
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😜lol I thought you might say that........POTS syndrome is to do with blood pressure nervous system look it up.....quite often goes with chronic pain conditions........everything is on red alert.
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Ha, I didn't know I had that but if I do look it up I will be convinced I do :rofl:
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Collagen deficiency is one of the known causes of prolapse Judith. You can help yourself by doing pelvic floor exercises properly and regularly and also by the use of HRT. http://www.londonurology.org.uk/faq/80-prolapse
Here's the info on PoTS http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/postural-tachycardia-syndrome/Pages/Introduction.aspx
Taz x :)
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I thought that may be the case Do you think they might be able to fix me?
I won't look at the link to POTS as I don't want to scare myself but I get dizzy if I crouch down and then stand up :-\
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It's more to do with a raised heart rate Judith. I get dizzy too if I stand up too quickly. In PoTS you don't have a change in blood pressure but you do have a change in heart rate when you have been standing for a while. This is how it's diagnosed
"How is PoTS diagnosed?
A diagnosis of PoTS is made if your heart rate increases by 30 beats per minute (bpm) or more (40bpm in those aged 12 to 19) after 10 minutes of standing, or if it increases to more than 120 bpm.
By definition, this happens with no drop in blood pressure.
Heart rate is usually measured during the active stand test or the tilt table test."
Have you been referred to a pelvic floor specialist? Not sure how far you've got with any investigations re possible prolapse etc. Sorry if you've already said it all.
Taz x :)
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I have all kinds of problems at the moment Taz, mainly with a trapped pudendal nerve. One of the specialists I saw last year diagnosed a rectocele but it was missed by a gynaecologist and a uro-gynae. It's only recently that it has made its presence felt, so to speak. I need to go to my GP to get a referral :(
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The worst thing possible for peolpe with PN or any vagianal pelvic pain is to do pelvis floor exercises......it would be a disaster.
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I agree that these exercises would need to be carefully monitored and taught Maryjane. It's the same with my own health following the anterior repair. There are some pelvic floor exercises that I can't do. I found the gynae worryingly uninformed on all of this but the pelvic floor specialist has been very helpful in what I can and can't do. I have read that pelvic pain (once a diagnosis has been reached) can be improved by pelvic floor exercises. They are not easy to do and I really think women should be given much more help and advice on this really important aspect of pelvic health. I expect you've read everything available on the internet but I did find this info quite helpful a while ago when I wondered if my own pelvic pain was PN related http://www.pelvicpainrehab.com/pelvic-pain/744/the-role-of-pt-in-treating-pn/
Taz x
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Yes thanks that's the first sight I came across.......I no a lady from the UK who had two weeks with Stephanie and came back 80% better........apparently there is far more PN out there.....it's just given different names but it's is an evil nerve that can cause havoc but is also so necessary.....as it controls so much.....and most gynaes are useless at the nerves and muscles in the pelvic floor.....unless they show an added interest......they are basically told don't do an episiotomie anywhere near the route path of the PN and not a lot more......
Vulvodynia is another word for PN also......but the big chicken and egg question is it the PN that has caused the pelvic floor to go into spasm or the spasm of the pelvic floor caused by thrush or a UTI for example that has caused the PN.....whatever the pelvic floor needs to relax........and for some dilators are good for this.......and a lot of ladies get PN after a hysterectomy or prolpase repair......so unless as I said earlier it's coming out and causing you lots of problems I would leave well alone.......I was also told this by the pain specialist in London he said prolapse surgery causes more problems than it fixes.
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Yes it does cause more problems but the discomfort from a prolapse can be really limiting. I found that I couldn't walk further than a mile or so. Couldn't sit for long. Had to sit with my feet up for half an hour after doing the weekly food shop etc. I hated the feeling of it popping out every time I bent over - sounds funny but it isn't. The dragging sensation and the soreness too. I did put it off for three years but in the end it was worth taking the risk. The younger you are the better I think.
Taz x
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Women weren't designed very well were they :-\. Their sell by date certainly coincides with the end of their reproductive years. Men have a far easier ride >:(
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Interesting link - I could answer "yes" to 4 out of 5 symptoms on the "bowel list":
"Bowel symptoms
The following are common symptoms for prolapse that affects the rectum (posterior part of the pelvis):
Difficulty passing stools - and/or having to strain.
Sudden urgency to pass stools
Feeling of bowels not emptying fully - or the feeling of a blockage or obstruction
Stool incontinence
Flatulence"
And some TMI again... ;) I've had some fairly normal BMs the last couple of days, but today I noticed that almost every piece that comes out of me is bent. And this also happens when I'm using the squatting stool, which is suppsed to straighten out your rectum, right? Could this be a sign of a prolapse? Anyone else noticed this? I mean, it's almost like there is something bulging in to my rectum shaping my poops this way.... And I've had two normal rectoscopies, so there shouldn't be anything on the inside of my rectum causing this. (Sorry, if I'm being gross!)
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It does sound like a posterior prolapse - also called a rectocele. Mayo Clinic info http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/rectocele/basics/symptoms/con-20027826
Taz x
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In my case it came to the stage when surgery was the only option and it did the trick.
Admittedly I have had two lots of cystocele and rectocele repairs. The first lasted 12 years and the last surgery was 11 years ago and still going strong helped by pelvic floor exercises, Vagifem and avoiding very heavy lifting. I am now 62.
So it's not all doom and gloom if surgery does become necessary for any of you, but I had a truly excellent gynae.
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So I've now read about how the rectum could push into the vagina when going to the toilet, if you have a prolapse... So I thought I'd check for myself. My question now is: Should ANY part of your vagina be "moving" when you bear down as you would do when having a BM? There is definitely quite a lot of "action" in mine (sorry ;) ). It feels like the "top" (my cervix, I guess) moves down quite a lot when I strain. I have NO clue if this is normal, since I haven't actually checked this before...???? Does anyone know how it "should" feel?
Edit: My cervix (I guess) actually comes down to just a couple of centimeters inside the opening of my vagina when I bear down. Normal???
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Does anyone know if the cervix is supposed to move like that? I barely have to strain at all for my cervix to be just inside the opening... Or is this a sign of a prolapse?
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Not tried it but I don't think mine does that. :o
and I do have a couple of probably minor prolapses.
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It sounds like a uterine prolapse 20032003. It's best not to continue straining though. http://www.webmd.com/women/guide/prolapsed-uterus
Taz x
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20032003 please don't strain (!!!) and Sparkle - please don't peer. It won't do you any good.
Definitely get a thorough examination by a gynae you trust if you suspect you have a prolapse and be prepared for them sometimes not being able to assess correctly just how bad it is by initial examinations, especially when lying down. I had an examination standing up and it still did not show as badly as I was complaining and in fact the seriousness did not reveal itself until I was under anaesthetic.
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Going to the gyno next Monday. At least I feel that I can give clear descriptions of symptoms and ask her what to look for now. I've been wondering for MONTHS what the heck is wrong with me and my butt/poo. Maybe this is the answer... A retroverted uterus that is also possibly prolapsed could, I guess, produce pretty annoying symptoms... I'll definitely try not to strain!
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Yes, I think it must be the way I'm built inside, lol. All the organs must have slipped back into place when I lie down!
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Hopefully we'll both have answers next Monday 20032003! It can't come soon enough for me, I'm sure you feel the same!!
S x
Yes, I would LOVE to hear that I have a prolapse! I know this sounds 100% crazy, BUT walking around worrying about having some fatal disease/wondering if my symptoms and problems are all in my head is a whole lot worse... It is so sad to have such limited knowledge about your own body/anatomy though. I seriously have no clue whether my cervix/top of vagina should move down when I'm on the toilet. I guess not, but I feel like an idiot for having to ask the gyno this question. I'm sure they have heard more or less everything during their career, but still... At the age of 46, it seems that I should know this...
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I am going to see my GP on Tuesday about mine, had to put my finger in my vagina to push the poo out today :'( I really hope they can do something, I feel so dirty.
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Certain times of the month our cervix gets lower whatever our age.......my GP said the best way of seeing how bad a prolpase is.......is to squat put a finger up there and bear down and you will be able to feel how much movement there is......to be examined lying down doesn't show a good enough picture as it all goes back to where it should do.....when I first stsrted using the vagifem I could only get it half in regards my cervix .....now I can get it right in still with room to spare.....so the local oestrogen is doing its thing.
Judith 57 prepare yourself for an interesting procedure.😏
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Will do :scottie: or perhaps I'll just run for the hills :-[
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Get as much info as you can and then post on here, my gynae investigated me standing up , I also notice if I get stressed things drop down or when i am very tired, hey ho ........
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Good luck Judith. I know what you mean about feeling dirty but it's just something that has to be done. I was totally disgusted with my body when I discovered my prolapse. It just doesn't feel right having something where it shouldn't be. You will get through it though. In the meantime try not to strain and definitely don't lift anything heavy - never overload the supermarket bags. If possible hold them close to your body too rather than letting them drag from your arms. It all makes a difference to the pressure put on your pelvic floor.
Taz x
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Thank you Taz xx
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So I won't be going to the gyno today... :( Stupid, stupid body decided that it was appropriate to start my period last night. I was expecting it last week, and it should have been pretty much over with by today. But, no, it started with some tiny spotting yesterday afternoon and then I woke up with my period at 2:30 am... Generally, they have a 3-week wait at the gyno and with Summer holidays who knows how long it will be... :( I'll have to call them at 8:30 when they open and explain my situation. And I was "looking forward" to it... :(
Edit: Crisis slightly avoided... They actually had some appointments for next week - thankfully :)!
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That's good news that you don't have to wait long. They will quite often do examinations while bleeding though. If you have periods which last for months then there's often no choice. I've had quite a few like that - it's a bit embarrassing but usually they can still go ahead with it.
Taz x :)
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I get the sense that they would rather reschedule during your period. And it was probably good since I have had some cramps today.
Another odd question from me... Just inside the vaginal opening, should there be a bunch of semihard tissue? The gyno did not react apparently, but I don't remember my vagina "always" feeling like this... Prolapse sign?? Also, I read a comment somewhere that if you have a uterine prolapse you can neither have sex nor use tampons. True???
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My prolapse didn't stop me doing anything but sex could get uncomfortable as my cervix was was visible) and always got sore after sex
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Do you mean on the front wall of the vagina? If you can push on it and it sort of moves in and up then it could be an anterior wall prolapse (cystocele). The last couple of years I couldn't use tampons as the prolapse got in the way of them being put in properly. The actual prolapse symptoms also felt like a tampon not quite in properly.
Taz x
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I couldn't wear tampons either
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Sometimes I could get it in but the blood would only ever be on one side as the prolapse was obviously pushing against the other side. Strange the things that happen!!
Taz x
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Nearly 30 years ago after birth of second child I noticed my tampons didnt stay in so well then a few years later I noticed I always seemed to want to pee again just after I d been to loo, then a few year on signs of prolapse, perhaps If Id been more aware of what was happening I could have done more for my pelvic floor,
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20032003 - I have the that sort of rigid tissue you describe, must be related to the prolapse I imagine, never used to be like that!
Interesting. I always have such a hard time figuring out if something has changed, or if I just now have noticed it. But I definitely cannot remember having so much "stuff" right inside the opening... But, like I said, the gyno didn't mention anything when she examined me in march. Do you think that it is a sign of vaginal prolapse - that vaginal tissue is "sagging" downwards?
Meanwhile, I'm having a period complete with diarrhea and stomach upset this time >:(. As I suspected, because of the very noticeable ovulation I had, my period has been the most "normal" it's been in a long time. More bleeding, more cramping, more stomach upset, etc.... I wonder if it will go back to this for a while, or if it was just a fluke...?
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Hi Sparkle,
I'm glad you have a lovely GP!
Are you still using the 'Yes' water-based gel? Do you think it helped ease the inflammation and do you feel more comfortable now?
Hope it all goes well next week and your GP will prescribe some vaginal oestrogen!
Jenna x
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Yes, Sparkle, I know what you mean, that's why I have an oestrogen cream for the external soreness, as well. The gynae said Vagifem wouldn't be any use, as it wouldn't get to all the areas it was needed!
I have read that you can still use an oestrogen cream even if you have fibroids, as long as you are monitored, so hopefully your GP will prescribe that for you.
I'm pleased to hear you are feeling more comfortable now. :)
Jenna x
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Thank you, Sparkle! (But it was probably the hydrocortisone!)
Jenna x
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I saw my GP today and she examined me lying down and said things appeared normal. I told her that I sometimes have to place a finger into my vagina to help empty my rectum and she said that was quite common :-\
She said the walls of my vagina appeared whitish which can be a sign of atrophy and she advised me to stop using the HRT and she has prescribed an oestrogen cream.
Surely it can't be normal to have to intervene to empty my bowels :'(
She has also prescribed Fybogel Granules to help form my stools and make them easier to pass. I am a bit reluctant to take that though as I don't want to find I become constipated.
If things don't improve I shall go back and ask to be referred to a Gynae.
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Fybogel won't make you constipated but will do what the GP said.
I have IBS...the D sort and have used Fybogel on occasions and it actually helps that too.
I'm another one that feels as if things are not quite the way they should be. I have asked a nurse and a GP about a slight prolapse but they have both said they can't see anything. All I know is I feel different.
When I get up in the morning I have a sensation of something being "there" like a tampon that has slipped. When I empty my bowels the feeling goes...not 100% but a good bit.
I'm not sure what things should feel like...ie what normal as I really never paid much attention before. All I know is.....it's different.
Honeybun
X
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That's exactly the same as me HB and the pain specialist I saw last year said I had a rectocele. Sometimes it feels just like a tampon stuck at the wrong angle - we know our own bodies for heavens sake and know if something feels wrong. Sometimes it feels different when I sit down, just a feeling that things aren't in the right place and need sorting out :-\
When the GP examined me this morning she said she could feel a stool but I had opened my bowels this morning before my appointment, I think some is getting stuck in the 'pouch' - sorry TMI I know :-X
That's why I am a bit reluctant to take the Fybogel :'(
Gosh I never knew things like this could happen!
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Judith if you walls appear whitish it is probs VA but can occasionally be a sign of LP lichen Planus I would go back to Dr A for an annual MOT of the vagina I am going back in September.
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I saw my GP today and she examined me lying down and said things appeared normal. I told her that I sometimes have to place a finger into my vagina to help empty my rectum and she said that was quite common :-\
No, that can't be normal. Common maybe, since I've understood that prolapses are quite common, but not normal as in it should be like that.
I sometimes get things stuck in my rectum that I just can't seem to push out, but if i use my finger to push on the area between the rectum and the vagina it will most often come out. I don't know if this is due to a prolapse or something else weird. I've had two doctors look at my rectum. One of them considered a rectal prolapse, but said that was not what the problem was. But a rectal prolapse is only one type, I guess, and my uterus or something else could probably still be pushing up against my rectum. At that point I was examined laying on my side, and at the gyno laying on my back. I usually don't feel problems then. My worst position is usually sitting, but I don't know if that's common with a prolapse? It feels like everything gets "squished" together when I sit, and that my rectum gets pushed down in an uncomfortable way...
(Sorry for details, but it's difficult to explain/discuss without being somewhat graphic...)
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The symptom of everything being squished together are very typical of a prolapse. A rectal prolapse means that part of the rectum comes out of the body when you have a bowel movement and you have to push it back in. If someone examines your rectum they wont often see a problem with a prolapse which is affecting the vagina. The feeling you have could be caused by a rectocele prolapse where the back wall of the vagina is being pushed inwards by faeces waiting to be expelled. This is why you can push against the back vaginal wall to help - it sort of unkinks the rectum and allows the faeces to be pushed out. http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/rectocele/basics/definition/con-20027826
Once one part prolapses it is common for other parts of the vagina to prolapse too.. eventually of course.. not altogether. I started with a cystocele and then developed a uterine prolapse. Now my vaginal walls are weak and because the uterus has been removed this can lead to what's called a vault prolapse where the top of the vagina descends (eek!). This is more likely after hysterectomy as the uterus is an anchor for the top of the vagina.
Have been a bit quick here in my explanation but need to get to work. Hope it's helpful.
Taz x
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My worst position is usually sitting, but I don't know if that's common with a prolapse? It feels like everything gets "squished" together when I sit, and that my rectum gets pushed down in an uncomfortable way...
The above is a quote from 20032003 but I think I did it wrong :-\
That's exactly how it feels for me.
I am so confused now, I think I will have to start another thread for advice on this. I went to see my GP yesterday and she said she was surprised that no-one had ever offered me oestrogen cream, she said to stop taking my HRT and she was going to prescribe a cream for me to use daily for two weeks and then twice a week after that. I assumed it was akin to Vagifem.
Anyway, I have just picked up the prescription and it is for estradiol gel. It states very clearly that in non-hysterectomised women a progesterone should be administered for twelve days of each month. It also says that the usual dose is once a day and the pump will last four weeks.
I think I may have been given the wrong product....
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Judith - I think she meant to give you Estriol Cream (it is what I use for atrophy). It used to be called Gynest Cream.
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Judith - do you know why she wants you to stop HRT? My prolapse worsened dreadfully once mine was stopped and I was on Vagifem alone.
Taz x
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No, I don't know Taz, I have got two months left so perhaps I'll carry on taking it. I am just so fed up with it all now, my body seems to be conspiring against me :'(
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To add a bit from me from my experiences.....
Fybogel - don't be put off by Fybogel. It is a natural bulking preparation which really helps keep you regular and shift things along. It is also quite gentle.
Examinations lying down often do not show up a prolapsed organ to the most experienced medics. If you are very uncomfortable, do persist in complaining about it.
Description of how my prolapses felt -
bladder prolapse felt as if I had a tampon hanging out as I walked round
uterine prolapse felt as if I was sitting on an egg
And the rectal prolapse made me feel as if I was sitting on a sausage and as if I had a sausage in my undercarriage.
And I totally agree about hrt helping prolapses - and lack of oestrogen making it worse.
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And the rectal prolapse made me feel as if I was sitting on a sausage and as if I had a sausage in my undercarriage.
Interesting... Would you say that your rectal prolapse (rectocele?) was felt more in the rectum or more in the vagina?
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Yes, my one was - I almost felt as if I had a bag hanging down at the back of me. Definitely more in the rectum than in the vagina. But that is me.
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Scriv, the thing that I am finding so awful at the moment, and I feel really quite ashamed writing this, is that during the day I start to smell the stool that is stuck in my rectum. I have searched and searched on the internet and nobody ever mentions a smell with their rectocele so I am worried why I have this smell and no-one else ever mentions it..... :'(
When I told the GP she just mentioned trying the Fybogel...
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The Fybogel should help move the stools through, judith. The muscle is probably a bit floppy and maybe that is why you feel the stool seems to get stuck at the moment, maybe parts linger a bit in the folds of the intestine. Fybogel should give bulk to the stool and bind it together and move it through and hopefully help this problem.
Sorry I can't help with the smell, other than it was very hard to keep clean around the anus! You mustn't feel at all ashamed about this.
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Thank you Scriv, I'll see how I go with the Fybogel..
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A rectal prolapse is totally different to a rectocele. In a rectal prolapse the rectum usually protrudes outside of the body when you pass a stool and has to be physically pushed back in. With a rectocele the wall of the vagina is thin and the waiting stool (!) pushes against it and bulges into the vaginal canal. They are two very different problems http://www.bupa.co.uk/health-information/directory/r/rectal-prolapse
Taz x :hug:
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I don't have a rectal prolapse or any piles or anything Taz just the bulge into my vagina and I think I can smell the waiting stool..... :'(
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It could be that your anal sphincter has become weak Judith. There's a bit about how the sphincter muscles function here http://www.aboutgimotility.org/site/about-gi-motility/disorders-of-the-pelvic-floor/
It is common to have more than one prolapse type problem going on as there can be an overall weakness of the pelvic floor. It's not something I even thought about until it happened to me!
Taz x
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Re Taz's definition, I had a rectal prolapse.....
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I've been checked for rectal prolapse, so it's probably not what I have. But I'm really wondering about rectocele, because it seems that I have some of the symptoms. However, I can't see anything when I look, and I'm not even sure what if anything I feel. When I go to the bathroom though I can feel a lot of "stuff" if I (yuck) place a finger inside my vagina. It seems that things come down (cervix) and soft squishy things appear from the walls. Sorry can't explain any better... As for the rectum, it almost always feels as if something is there. When I sit, the pressure tends to be worst, and the best position usually is sleeping in bed on my side. Might sound crazy, but it makes me wonder if the latter position takes pressure from my retroverted uterus off of my rectum?
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It sounds like your walls are thin so you can feel both the bladder and the bowel pushing against them. I don't think the retroverted uterus would give you these sorts of symptoms. If your womb has prolapsed down then you should be able to see it if you bear down while standing up. Sounds bizarre but you have to obviously stand on a mirror to see this. The feeling of something in the rectum is typical of rectocele or, sometimes, enterocele.
Are you on HRT?
Taz x
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It sounds like your walls are thin so you can feel both the bladder and the bowel pushing against them. I don't think the retroverted uterus would give you these sorts of symptoms. If your womb has prolapsed down then you should be able to see it if you bear down while standing up. Sounds bizarre but you have to obviously stand on a mirror to see this. The feeling of something in the rectum is typical of rectocele or, sometimes, enterocele.
Are you on HRT?
Taz x
No, not on HRT. I have tried standing over a mirror, but it seems I have nothing that pops out... Can you have a prolapse without "parts" coming out of your body?
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If you scroll back through the thread I think I've posted links about prolapse? Prolapses are graded - the final stage is where, when you strain, they pop out. You mentioned that the cervix is really low - you could feel it I think - so this would seem to be a uterine prolapse which has progressed quite some way. With bladder and bowel prolapses you can usually feel then by pressing on either the front wall or the back wall of the vagina. The bladder one feels like you have a spongy mass you can move up a bit and the bowel one feels like a hard lump. http://www.womhealth.org.au/conditions-and-treatments/210-genital-prolapse
Taz x
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oh no, I think I've got the bladder one then :-\
The cystitis came back with a vengeance yesterday, despite all the expensive powders I purchased. Had to resort to anti-biotics. They were the emergency ones I had ready for my holiday end of this week.
Also struggling with BV again. The Fem dophilus isn't quite keeping it at bay.
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This is so grim, I have been soooooo uncomfortable at work today but my GP said everything appeared 'normal'. I know what normal feels like and it isn't this.....
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When I don't sit on the toilet/strain I can feel my cervix about one finger length up (probably normal?). But when straining a little it comes down within 3 centimeters of the opening... I don't know how normal that is?
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What does the cervix feel like, is it that slightly pointed thing that feels like a piece of cartilage or have I got something odd up there :-\. It never used to cross my mind to investigate 'up there' :-\
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Yes, I think that you could describe it that way. Normally, I don't dig around up there either.... ;) Which in a way is kind of annoying, because it would have been good to know what it felt like before - when everything was normal.
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I know, gosh what are we like? :o :o :o
I'm starting to worry that I'm going to cause more problems with all my probing :-\
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In addition to this cervix thing, I get the sensation of having a small "pouch" on the front right side of my rectum extending towards the vagina. One of the doctors who examined me said that I had the remnants of an old hemmorhoid about 6-7 cm in on that side, but what I'm feeling is not that far in at all. I sometimes get a little pain there, sometimes a little bit of an itch. Could this literally be a rectocele where small pieces of poo get trapped?
Also noted another thing.... Often, after a bm, I will get a weird sensation in my vagina for a while afterwards. Not painful, but sort of...swollen/full. Anyone noticed something like this?
Judith: I don't think the fact that you are trying to examine yourself a little with hurt you, unless you do it all the time.. ;) I think that it is almost necessary to do it in order to have some sort of clue what might be going on.
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Hrm... That's that, I guess. Went to the gyno today, and I don't have a prolapse, she says. She examined me again (laying down) and everything looked just fine (which, of course, I'm happy about). Also, I learned that having your cervix coming down during a BM is normal since everything sort of moves around with the help of the ligaments. So, I guess, I'm "normal" in the female parts area...
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That's good news, has it put your mind at rest?
S x
Honestly... Not sure. I have rectal pressure. I need to have BMs more often than I used to.
The question is: Why? Partly, I'm pretty sure it's in my head (i.e. anxiety and worry) and partly it's probably some type of hormonally induced stomach/digestive issue. I do improve when I eat more oatmeal and lots of veggies.
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It's good news! Did you have to cough and bear down during your examination? Some gynaes examine you both lying down and standing up.
Taz x
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It's good news! Did you have to cough and bear down during your examination? Some gynaes examine you both lying down and standing up.
Taz x
No coughing and no bearing down...
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That's what worries me, everything falls back into place when we lie down, they need to check us standing up!
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Ah - that is a bit strange to be honest. All of mine were diagnosed on bearing down. Mind you - is there anything you want to have done even if you have a prolapse? Many women have them and never know as their symptoms are so mild. Prolapse surgery is not something to be undertaken lightly so try to put it out of your head - difficult I know.
Taz x
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I agree that these exercises would need to be carefully monitored and taught Maryjane. It's the same with my own health following the anterior repair. There are some pelvic floor exercises that I can't do. I found the gynae worryingly uninformed on all of this but the pelvic floor specialist has been very helpful in what I can and can't do. I have read that pelvic pain (once a diagnosis has been reached) can be improved by pelvic floor exercises. They are not easy to do and I really think women should be given much more help and advice on this really important aspect of pelvic health. I expect you've read everything available on the internet but I did find this info quite helpful a while ago when I wondered if my own pelvic pain was PN related http://www.pelvicpainrehab.com/pelvic-pain/744/the-role-of-pt-in-treating-pn/
HI Taz ;D
I have a problem with pelvic floor is that the same as Keagles?
When I do Keagles I squeeze in my private bits and bottom but or me after a day or 2 of doing them,
My Vaginal openings so sore and can last for days so for me All I can do is pull up when I cough etc
I Had constipation all my life till 2/3 years ago/ I went to a Physio for my back he did a different routine
From the following day I went to the loo? Normally? Now I have as one lady described daily loose stools
I sometimes have to push first bit then it just comes and they are soft normal looking ones but loose.
Over the last year or so I cant seem to get 100% clean Ive had to resort to ending with wipes
Sometimes pardon me PUMP when I next go to the loo for a wee stains sometimes on my knickers?
I almost never feel totally empty anymore either. No pressure feeling just feel like I could go again?
My pals here say they feel the same and put it down to age and falling south. Its not uncomfy or pain
No blood no discolouring of stools. I can go some days 2/3 times in a couple of hours.
After a lifetime of constipation ud think Id be chuffed! Ive looked nothing cant see any difference?
Sometimes it gets very stingy and red after Ive gone 1/2 times and it seems to affect my Vaginal area
All in all other than that I feel OK I think the Vagifems affected me as well cos its one of the sides to it
Ive also found this year with all the stress of Dads death flying o UK sorting it out finding a B.. mess
No will no insurance no funeral insurance 1000s of pounds worth of bills unpaid finally selling his place
For only 5000 pounds more than he paid for it in 1991 such a mess we lost $1000s of dollars
Thank god we had the savings. Then less than 8 weeks later we had the trip and again thank god it had al been paid for the prev August even the day trips. But as anyone could imagine after going through what we went through poor Bobbles cleaned both places the one he lived in and the one that was up for sale. 160 Rubbish bags paying to have the place emptied he looked like death warmed up.
I was so worried about him. I got Bronchitis and developed a rash on my chest that looked like ACNE
Dont Ever run the Nazzie health down to me none of you know how lucky you are in Britain
I was seen by 3 nurses 2 Doctors in the local cottage hospital walk in centre examined by all
NERVES the rash and stuff for chest I could hardly breath also panic NOT only didnt i have to pay
BUT the scripts were FREE I said But I dont live in UK anymore Chemist said You pay nothing your 60
Since the return from the Trip to EU we couldnt rebook my Vagifems not been working as well
Im really fed up If Dad wasnt dead Id kill him myself IM JOKEING We went around the world 2 times in less than 5mnths over 30.000 miles
Taz x
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Ah - that is a bit strange to be honest. All of mine were diagnosed on bearing down. Mind you - is there anything you want to have done even if you have a prolapse? Many women have them and never know as their symptoms are so mild. Prolapse surgery is not something to be undertaken lightly so try to put it out of your head - difficult I know.
Taz x
I don't want surgery. I worry about my odd symptoms though, and would love to have an explanation as to why I feel the way I do.
If prolapse is diagnosed while bearing down, then why is it normal that my cervix comes down so low when I'm bearing down on the toilet? I'm confused..... :(
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HI Sweetie
Taz is right Im sorry but Ive known 4 people whove had prolapse surgery every single ones failed
It literally is a last resort in my opinion. I may have one I dont know I look at my opening and see stuff
Watching EB on TV girls seem to have the bits showing I have? I bear down they dont move?
My bum chum IMO I may have a wee one there but looking at my bottom its like a babies so?
I think its old age we dont want to accept it I dont with my purple hair and Im now yeee size 12 again
IMO I dont look half bad for 62 tomorrow but my insides are its time and tie we cant turn back the clock x
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In the Wisbech papers recently:
'sling the mesh' campaign - by Kath Sansom
https://slingthemesh.wordpress.com