Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: Annie0710 on May 17, 2015, 06:22:49 PM
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Hi ladies
I'm on oestrogen hrt and vagifem (doing 3 x weekly although doc said I've got to reduce to 2 x weekly) but I'm still itchy and uncomfortable outside
What do you recommend that I apply to this area that won't be a problem for when OH and I know know, get amorous and which is ok if it transfers to his skin (and I don't just mean his legs )
TIA
Annie xx
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Baby janes doctor went to a HRT conference and was told we can use vagifem up to 5 xs a week.....you can use estriol cream externally very weak......I was to.d by the GUM a clinic to use vagifem and local,oestrogen on the outside I am 48.....I also use YES oil based.
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I agree you do not have to reduce to 2 x per week! The Estring vaginal ring gives way more than this - 7.5 mcg per 24 hours = 52.5 mcg per week http://www.medicines.org.uk/emc/medicine/1512/SPC. The absolute maximum that 3 x 10 mcg Vagifem could release per week is clearly only 30 mcg. Have you thought of increasing to 2 at once twice a week to see if this helps?
Hurdity x
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I thought you could use vagifem more often, first I was told I couldn't use it all then I tackled GPS and they said I could, I'm being referred to Nhs gynae because they don't know what to prescribe me and when he phoned to tell me i mentioned I'm using it 3xweekly and he said I mustn't, I can only do 2x weekly insertions
re-estriol cream externally.... Did you mean very weak or every week ? I've never used it so have no idea
Thanks
Annie xx
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I agree you do not have to reduce to 2 x per week! The Estring vaginal ring gives way more than this - 7.5 mcg per 24 hours = 52.5 mcg per week http://www.medicines.org.uk/emc/medicine/1512/SPC. The absolute maximum that 3 x 10 mcg Vagifem could release per week is clearly only 30 mcg. Have you thought of increasing to 2 at once twice a week to see if this helps?
Hurdity x
That sounds like a better way of doing it !
I'm due tonight so will pop 2 in
Thanks Hurdity
Annie xx
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PS I meant to say I use Estriol cream externally too! The Gynest cream is very weak (weaker preparation than Ovestin) and you should be able to use it liberally - there is so little absorption anyway. I have this too, and the vag pessaries and systemic HRT!!! (all on NHS!)
Hurdity x
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Do you mean you use Estriol cream liberally Hurdity ?
I wonder whether a phone call could get doc to prescribe it ? I'm not holding out hope, they're scared to prescribe anything hormone related :-(
Annie xx
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Hurdity look !
DHEA and testosterone added to it !
I've only read that bit
"
Pros Estriol vaginal cream is a great option for vaginal dryness, because it is so gentle and safe to use, especially if there are concerns related to breast cancer. Many of the local oncologists are now using estriol for women that have a history or have present disease. This type of cream will slowly but effectively help both internal and external vaginal tissue, and can also be used on the vulva and urethral tissue. Results may be expected in as little as 1-2 weeks.Estriol vaginal cream can also be custom-compounded to include a small amount of testosterone and DHEA. This is especially beneficial for many women as it quickly plumps up the tissue and can also increase sex drive. "
Annie xx
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Just went to chemist to pick up my Estring to be told it's not currently available. Manufacturing problem? Could cry. Mine runs out in a couple of weeks and I have to see different GP this week for a gynae check before working out if I should have full HRT for my soreness. Now sleeping terribly as well.
If any of you can get hold of an Estring though, it is great!
PS has anyone got a link to a paper or anything where we can quote the Vagifem x 5 weekly idea? Feel I might get That Look if I say the GP of a lady on this forum went to a session where it was recommended to my doc.
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3 years ago youd have been given 25x2 thats the dosage the only dosage 14 then twice a week - 50mgx7
So many women find 10m isnt enough -20m a week some take it 5 nights a week
Im lucky in Ozz they still only have 25m and I was told by 3 GPs u can take Vagifem indefo
Unless something isnt right with you xxx
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My lovely newly found lady doctor is happy for me to use Vagifem 5x10mg a week, plus Ovestin cream for the outside bits.
At the moment I use the Vagifem every other night but this last week have used it 5 times as I seemed to have had a little blip.
I use a very small amount of the Ovestin cream 2/3 times a week.
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Hi Annie, I use Replens externally when it looks like l'amour is on cards. It's great stuff for external moisturising, I love it, and doesn't matter if it transfers to him. Also use Vagifem 10mcg twice weekly (mornings) and a tiny amount of Ovestin occasionally on outside (mornings) when I know no contact with OH.
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I do use replens too. What's the estring ? If that's the ring I'm not sure it'd be suitable for me, tried the cervical ring years ago for prolapse and it spent more time in my underwear than it did inside me
I'll book an appt after I've gathered enough evidence for my case
Thank you ladies
Annie xx
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Hurdity look !
DHEA and testosterone added to it !
I've only read that bit
"
Pros Estriol vaginal cream is a great option for vaginal dryness, because it is so gentle and safe to use, especially if there are concerns related to breast cancer. Many of the local oncologists are now using estriol for women that have a history or have present disease. This type of cream will slowly but effectively help both internal and external vaginal tissue, and can also be used on the vulva and urethral tissue. Results may be expected in as little as 1-2 weeks.Estriol vaginal cream can also be custom-compounded to include a small amount of testosterone and DHEA. This is especially beneficial for many women as it quickly plumps up the tissue and can also increase sex drive. "
Annie xx
Thanks Annie - sounds interesting! I googled that and it's from an American commercial site where they sell various products for women and menopause (not the creams though) - there are all sorts of things available there (in US) that aren't here and actually they aren't subject to the same trials as products here I don't think. It would be good if all sorts of different formulations of teststerone were produced and trialed for women in UK - unfortunately until more research is carried out into the benefits (and long term safety) of teststerone (and possibly DHEA) in women then I don't think it will be commercially viable on NHS so it's a vicious circle isn't it!
By the way I don't apply the estriol cream very liberally because I'm not using it for lubrication but to strengthen the tissues around the v entrance which the pessaries don't reach. As I said the Gynest cream ( now generic estriol cream 0.01 %) is the best for this as it is weaker so less chance of overusing.
Hurdity x
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Thanks Hurdity
I posted that before I had enough time to read up thoroughly, I think I'm so desperate for a miracle
I am going to ask about estriol , vagifem has worked wonders stopping the uti's instantly but externally nothing's really changed apart from plumping at the pubic bone area, undercarriage needs attention still, it's like underwear is hurting very top of my legs (that bit) but it's not the underwear, I've bought new cotton ones and ones I wore before all this and nothing helps
I love you lot for your advice
Annie xx
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You will have what comes under the heading " vulvodynia" have you tried external coal oestrogen also?
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GROIN was the word I wanted! My brain is frazzled. It's where the knicker line for legs is, surely this is menopause related as I've only had this onset at the same time has VA ?
Either way, it's crying out for attention lol
Annie xx
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Ooer not sure about putting estriol on that bit?! It doesn't really count as the part of the vagina. By external areas I was meaning the bits where the vagina itself open out and joins to the labia - the outer but really - not the surrounding normal skin. It could be that menopausal issues ie lack of oestrogen - which causes the skin to become thinner - has made this area (ie the top of thigh) also thinner and more sensitive to clothes rubbing etc? Not sure what to suggest really except where loose skirts and no nix around the house and of course nothing in bed!
Hurdity x
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Oh Hurdity I am nix less in bed, and get in my cotton onesie straight after work (unless I'm going somewhere )
Challenging times, but hopefully a nice miracle cream from the docs will help (unless they're too afraid to prescribe me anything else)!
Annie xx
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I never wear pants 24/7 unless my period just long skirts makes a huge difference......there are our silk pants you can buy they are actually available on prescription I havnt tried them but they have a good reputation.
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I wear only knickers withj COTTON gussets yes they cost a bit more to buy pretty knickers
That are lacy etc but have pure cotton undercarriage but too me its worth it
Like Bras Im 34F I buy 2 at a time they are fitted and cost a lot (credit card) but I wont relent.
I have 3 Bras 2 white 1 black and a couple of Genie Bras for the house they last about 6mnths
Then I rebuy I get refitted again same with knickers I have 5 white 2 black and a few cheap cotton ones
\I wear Poise Panty Liners 2 a day to keep clean nice and soft no perfume just plain.
I tried to use the Ovestin on the outside and considering I used Ovestin for 10 years I was stunned
To find it burnt me or irritated me and Id used it inside and out for all that time till it failed
I went on to Vagifem 2/25m a week since 2010 Ive done 2 reloads in that time
My bits aches sometimes especially if my IBS acts up other than that its not too bad mostly
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Annie, you poor lady. Just wondering if the undercarriage problems are somehow related to your original prolapse rather than hormone problems? Is something else prolapsing, or pushing on a nerve maybe?
I used to wear stockings and suspenders when I had constant cystitis - with a longish skirt, no need for knickers. Let the air get to the parts, as they used to say...
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Ancient Runner
I can only go by my feeling
The skin to each side of the vagina (groin) changed the same time everything else did a few months back, I bought cotton knickers from next thinking it was the underwear but no difference, I bought slouch trousers for work so everything's breathable, no difference, it has to be where the vagifem isn't reaching, vulva sometimes get itchy but for the most part I put that down to hair removal too
I feel like a man as all I want to do is scratch and rearrange that area lol
The skin became loose there so that's also what makes me think hormones
Annie xx
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Do you mean the skin theres loose on the outside not plump if so thats hormones or lack of
Make sure the Vagifems going in high enough up to the line on the aplicator.
If you keep yourself tidy down there USE scissors only I can almost guarrantee next day u will be sore
Everytime I tidy up down there liek to keep them very short all the way to my Bottom area its cleaner
I can guarrantee next day Fanny sore its the pulling and poking around
The scratching is CLASSIC ATROPHY it was my very forst SYMPTOM in 2008 I had been gardening
I thought id been bitten nope it was the start of Vaginal Atrophy I should have got help there and then
I didnt I left it till feb 2010 by then my bits had shrunk unimaginably Im almost like a child down there
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Yes the skin is looser
Yes I've shrunk down there but sex is getting more comfy now I'm using vagifem but haven't yet gone to 2x weekly and doubt I will, I want results and I think the only way I'll get them is more than 2x10mcg weekly, I took Hurdity's advice and double up. Yeah I am putting it up right to the top
Well, re hair removal, I do the old landing strip, really cannot bear being untidy down there
I think I left VA for a long time, id never heard of it and losing my libido things slowed down in that dept and I kept blaming OH for tearing me and thought the recurrent uti's was my bladder packing up, I really had no idea I'm embarrassed to say , only ever see my dear old nans vaginal area when I was nursing her before her death (she was 85) and mine looked identical !!!
Annie xx
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Love me too id never heard VA I thought the change was hot flushed moodieness and loss of periods
No way could I ever imagine the loss of my moistness or libido or the ache and rawness ache 24/7
To me it was like a suction down there constant ache sore pain in my thighs inner I couldnt sit down
My Bartholin glands were swollen huge red raw and pee I could pee for Ozz and Britain 23 times 1 day!
And tell you what we had a womens hour with the ULY motor bike club KNOWONE had ever heard of VA
Yet when pressed over half of the women said thats what I have it must be it sounds the same.
3 women plucked up courage and with in 72hrs were given Vagifem with in a month 100% better
Except for peeing that takes longer to workcos u take a longer time to TRUST it cos peeing was so bad
Off I go finally to the GP with the 4 month NAGGING of my saviours Taz CLKD Woofy and a few others
First words were do NOT give me an internal Im likely to kick u in the face being my GP then for 20yrs
He knew me well enough he just looked and said OH god u poor buggar and gave me Vagifem
I started it with terror Valentines day 2010 and with in 3 aplications the sucking feeling the aching gone
It got better as everyday went on Bartholin gland I looked in my 2010 Diary cooled and shrank
Thats when I got to the TRUE state of my vanishing bits which Ive said before was all my fault
I should have gone to GP in May 2008 when it really HIT and NEVER EASED OFF for one day
I nursed for years and to be honest didnt rememeber still cant Keep on Keeping on find the dose 4 u x
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When I mentioned to doc last week on the phone I'm doing 4xweek he said no! Only twice, I said it's not enough but he was adamant so I'm sneakily doing it and just hope they don't cotton on when I put my repeat script in too early !
Alright for someone not suffering to go by the book, let them try having it for a week ! Then we'd be offered every hormone under the sun lol
Annie xx
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Annie0710
You could try the Estring as it gives a higher dose consistently - the GP may not like this as it does cost a bit more. I found the Estringe irritated less as there weren't the fillers you get with Vagifem and oestrogen creams.
Alternatively ask to be referred to a specialist uro/gynae on the basis that the ongoing pain only improves with a higher dose local oestrogen and you need advice on how to manage this. I think many GPs are very reluctant to go off license in case this causes problems. I went for a private consult with gynae and my GP is happy to follow their instructions. DG x
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I can't find what it's made of
I'm latex allergic
Annie xx
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Damn, Annie, I binned my old Estring packet last week - I could have checked for you!
They have a v fancy website - info may be hidden there somewhere.
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Annie - Estring details:-
https://www.medicines.org.uk/emc/medicine/1512
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Annie - Estring in latex so that will be a no,no for you I'm afraid. I'd ask for a referral to a specialist if your GP wont let you increase your usage of Vagifem. It's funny that I find that Vagifem causes me irritation but the Estring didn't - just shows how different we all are. DG x
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I know this is a bit sexist but you could try what my pal did in UK when her GP was stroppy
She went from 50mg week to 20mg a week@shed been on Vagi for 8 years I didnt know she was on it.
He refused to give her a rpt as quickly so she made an appt and said
My husband and I are having a bad time now Im down to 20mg its re affected our sex life@marriage
She got upset GP handed her over her rpt and said well you have been on 50mg a week for years
Your Ok so I think its OK for you to take the 5 a week indef In fact she took her husband with her
She said when she went in shed said her husband was outside GP couldnt get rid of her fast enough
Worth a try? So many ladies on here and in general the drop was huge too much from 50m to 20
No warning either one script 25m next 10m I remember the PANIC on here Ladies saying
What am I going to do and with in weeks same ladies saying sod it and putting in 3/4/5 a week
Mind i find its a sad inditment of medicine in general that a huge swath of GPs have no knowledge
Or interest in Meno women we are a drain on the surgeries time and money either they dont believe u
Say its your nerves or they know absolutly nothing about meno and when they do read up
God knows where@what they read cos too many dont understand what theyve read they may as well
Not bother. To find a GP whos sympathetic kind loving in fact and sees your in pain not mad@helps
AND if that means giving you what YOU need and what YOU have paid for in Taxes they r worth
Their weight in GOLD x
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Just my luck about the latex
I'm waiting on a referral appt, hopefully he did the letter last week, just waiting to know when the appt is now
Annie xx. (Autocorrect just signed me off as Minnie !!! Oh the coincidence lol 😂
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The doctor prescribed Sylk for me.......it's fabulous and soothing and can be used 24/7.....bliss
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With om 2 mins of using it Bobbles had to get off I was in agony it burnt me to hell
I ramg GP instantly it was MORNING !MEN!!!! Thank god he was open I sat in a bath of clean water
Sat there for a bout an hour I was in tears took panadols. It took 5 days to go so NEVER AGAIN
When Ive smear GP uses a prepubecent Specular with NOTHING ON I use an extra Vagfem night before