Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: rebelyell on May 17, 2015, 03:57:27 PM
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I have been taking 1/2 tablet of progynova since December last year. The previous year I took whole tablet for 6 months but came off altogether as I felt it made me a bit anxious. Since then I have had a problem with anxiety [panic attacks] and took ADs for three months but didn't like the flat feeling. GP said I could go back up to full tablet and I did this starting Thursday - my anxiety is now off the scale/uncontrollable. I have had bad news from dentist, which may be the reason, and am taking anti-biotics this weekend for gum infection, but feel absolutely dreadful. Sad, anxious, tearful...
Does oestrogen cause anxiety?? Or am just letting my health anxiety get a vice-like grip?
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It shouldn't do ,maybe try a different AD alongside your hrt ,it does sound like your anxiety is taking hold. AD are used to control anxiety not just depression,which one were you on before ? I tried many before I found the right one for me,and now no more anxiety,palps,etc. Hope you feel better soon.
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It really shouldn't?
Everything I have read says that oestrogen is largely responsible for your feelings of 'well being' and it has strong links to controlling the levels of serotonin in your brain.
This is why sudden, inexplicable anxiety is so often a symptom of the peri menopause. Because our oestrogen levels are getting lower, and what we do have is fluctuating, it can cause random anxiety.
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I was on full HRT patches and had been for two years when my anxiety struck. I tried changing...including Utrogestan, upping the patch and coming off altogether. Nothing worked and I'm still struggling with anxiety.
I'm now on a half patch which controls flushes .....but nothing even vaguely helps my anxiety.
I really wish I had a solution but after trying almost every supplement out there I am proof that for me at least there's no answer.
And just to put the icing on the cake I can't tolerate ADs ....they make me sick.
Honeybun
X
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Grl I understand what you are saying but Rebelyell is worse the higher the estrogen ! When she was on whole tablet she had anxiety,so I think would benefit from something else as well just to help get stabilized whilst she is settling in to hrt.Only my opinion ofcourse ,I would take whatever it takes once that all consuming anxiety takes hold its a buggar to shift. :-\
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Oh honeybun, that's so unfair.
I know my anxiety was caused by hormones, because it felt identical to the anxiety I suffered when I had PND. I am keeping everything crossed that HRT can knock it on the head.
I do know there are anit anxiety drugs (I think it is Mirtrazapine?) which aren't ADs. Have you tried that?
I also know (and I'm not recommending it but just putting it out there) that if I pop a couple of Stugeron (the travel sickness tablets) they effectively take the edge of my anxiety too. My American friend sometimes takes Benadryl (the cough stuff) too. Probably placebo, bit if it works, it works.
You are always so kind and supportive on here. I wish I could help more xxx
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HB I tried loads of different ADs couldnt tolerate any of them,prozac,sertaline,paroxatine,citlopram,endless ones but now just started a new one and it works well for me hurrah ! How long ago did you try HB cos there are lots of new ones compered to a few years ago.
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Thats what I take mirtazapine alongside my hrt. ;)
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Also rebelyell - it could be that the synthetic progestogen (norethisterone) in the HRT is causing these symptoms - or even the metabolic side effects of the oestrogen. Our own natural oestrogen itself as GypsyRoseLee does not cause anxiety - most definitely well being - but replacing it as HRT, especially when you are peri-menopausal with your own hormones fluctuating - can be tricky.
How far into menopause are you? Personally I would not take progynova as I think I said in the past because it has 7 tablet free days so will exacerbate any mood dip if it is in sync with your cycle. You will experience your own drop in oestrogen (whatever you are still producing as part of your cycle) together with the drop caused by the sudden stopping of the tablets. The whole point about the oestrogen part of HRT is that it prevents the extreme mood dips as a result of oestrogen crashing, because you take the same dose all the time.
Have you thought of trying a gentler form of HRT ie transdermal patch or gel?
Hurdity x
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You lot are wonderful - I am bombarded with advice! Hurdity - I have a hysterectomy 15 years ago so only have oestrogen. I think I might ask for gel instead of tablet, and may have to accept that I need ADs again in the short term. I had citalopram 10mg and was so excited when withdrawal symptoms [which were a bit grim] wore off as I felt back to my normal self. But have crashed down again, really badly.
I think I am alright if I don't get any other health set backs, but if I do then I just can't cope. I stop eating, become a bit hyper, get irritable and constantly worry.
But I accept it is not the oestrogen causing the anxiety - god knows how bad it would be without!!! :-X
Thanks.
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HB I tried loads of different ADs couldnt tolerate any of them,prozac,sertaline,paroxatine,citlopram,endless ones but now just started a new one and it works well for me hurrah ! How long ago did you try HB cos there are lots of new ones compered to a few years ago.
Hi dazned. It's a shame you were given so many anti depressants of the same type before finally being given one which works in a different way - an NaSSA instead of an SSRI. So glad that it is working for you now.
Taz x
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Still wondering if oestrogen only HRT is making me anxious. I am on progynova. When I first took it two years ago for six months I found I was getting more anxious so stopped. I have now been back on it for nearly a year and anxiety is really building. I get the odd few days free, then it builds up again.
Thinking of cutting tablets in half for a while. What do people think of this idea? What are issues of giving it up altogether? When I first took it all I had were hot flushes, now I'm a wreck!
BTW - I had a hysterectomy at 40 due to endometriosis and am 55 now.
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Think we all react differently Rebelyell. I've just gone back on my Estradot patches after a 3 month break. I'd say I'm better on it than not. My anxiety seemed to crank up when I wasn't taking HRT. I'm on Citalopram 10mg & have been for about 9/10 months now. I'll see how I go in the coming months & might try coming off the ADs as family stress is no longer a problem.
Maybe a different HRT or maybe another AD.
Hope you find a solution as anxiety, at its peak, is not nice.
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I know it's not the same for everyone but my anxiety was worse the higher the estrogen. X
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Thanks. I am fairly certain it is oestrogen causing it. Am going to try a private specialist as am getting nowhere with GP.
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rebelyell....I know mine is a minority voice, but yes I think estrogen can cause anxiety. I have been experimenting with hormones for over a year now, and when I'm off hormones 100% just me, my 'ovulation' time is the time at at my most anxious. Internally jittery. PVC's etc. All come at 'ovulation'.
I also have some anxiety a few days before my period. I have tried progesterone several times and every time after I stop progesterone I get quite severe anxiety 1-2 days later.
For me I think high estrogen, and progesterone withdrawal cause my anxiety symptoms. If I slap on an estrogen patch anytime days 10-14 ( when my own estrogen is at is highest) I get EXTREME anxiety, chills, internal vibrations etc. Estrogen acts like bit of a stimulant. Progesterone is a depressant ( a bit like a benzodiazapene actually).
I feel quite calm and zen when taking progesterone, but coming off of it is HELL.
So although I do think my overall level of estrogen is lower as I got through this transition. I think that I'm still getting estrogen 'spikes' ( very common in peri...sometimes our estrogen is higher than it was when we were 20) and this is causing one set of symptoms. The rapid 'crash' of estrogen after ovulation causes a whole other set ( hot flashes etc).
The mix of all the hormones and neurotransmitters is so complex. Sometimes I think it's just way to simple to say menopause= falling estrogen. It's this big bag of altered estrogen, progesterone, ratios, testosterone, thyroid hormone, and it's being bound, cortisol, serotonin, DHEA....the list is endless and all interconnected.
Hoping it settles Sigh....all that to say..yes I agree. Estrogen ( for me) can cause anxiety.
Tara
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Hello ladies.
I have also been wondering if my anxiety is being caused by oestrogen. I am post meno and using Evorel Conti 50 mcg patches. I have all the anxiety troubles of internal jitters etc but I also feel flushy and generally on edge. I have recently started cutting a corner off the patch but I haven't noticed much difference so far.
I think dogdoc you are correct, the system is so complex and menopause means all the ratios are altered. All I am certain of is that I am heartily sick of trying to feel better!
Take care everyone.
K.
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I agree the endocrine system is very complex and we probably don't know the half of it!
Kathleen - I suggest your symptoms may be oestrogen getting low or the side effects of continuous synthetic progestogen. Norethisterone is notorious for causing problems and even if you don't get obvious side effects you are taking it every single day and it can attenuate some of the beneficial effects of oestrogen so I've read. Notwithstanding donnacrichton's apparent sensitivity to even small doses of oestrogen - this is unusual and at post-menopause 50 mcg is not a high dose at all. In your position Kathleen I would try using a different preparation - for example utrogetsan - which although there are side effects may not cause anxiety in quite the same way.
Very high oestrogen - such as you're describing dogdoc is different altogether - and I don't know what the "standard" symptoms are of this. For example during early peri if you are having an oestrogen spike and you add to it with a patch (to try to even out the lows) - I don't know what effect this would have had on me!
A few years back on here we used to describe oestrogen as "the uplifting hormone" and progesterone as the "depressive" hormone just as you say dogdoc! I am sure in small doses some women find progesterone calming, and the progesterone withdrawal is not so much a negation of any beneficial effects, (or effects not really felt by some women) but the reversal of physiological changes that it induces to maintain a pregnancy - and as you say like a benzo drug, withdrawal from high dose of prog is like drug withdrawal - not that one should stay on it, but it is a stage that has to be gone through!
Oh dear I'm rambling again!
Hurdity x
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Hello ladies.
Dogdoc. - I totally sympathise with your situation and I hope you find relief soon.
Hurdity - Many thanks for your comments ( I always enjoy your rambles lol ). You have certainly given me food for thought and I will dig out my old diaries to check how I felt when I used Utrogestan briefly last year.
Searching my archives as I call it will probably throw up more questions so I'm bound to be back on the forum asking for advice in the near future!
Wishing everyone well.
K.