Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: pepperminty on May 17, 2015, 06:53:31 AM
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After feeling a bit better yesterday,
I have woken up feeling very nauseous , head hurting like a vice , upset bowls (I have been 5 times so far), I just feel as if I have been hit by a bus. I know it is because of my period on the HRT, I have one more combined tablet to take before the new pack. I don't normally have symptoms this badly. I feel like I am going to throw up. I haven't got a bug. I am really worried that this is going to happen every month . This will make it impossible to work. I can't say my mood is great either , but that's hardly surprising the way I feel. I hope that all this will improve eventually.
Has anyone had this initially with sequential HRT and it has improved ?
Or do I need to change the route or something. I am fighting back the tears again , and very frustrated as I am desperate to feel well. It's taken me ages to type this as I can't even focus. I just don't know what to do for the best. I am sorry for moaning ,i am just worried i am destined to have this every month.
Peppermintyxx
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I don't have any experience off HRT so can't advise you. Just wanted to say sorry you are feeling so bad and send you a hug :bighug:
I'm sure someone will be along soon who help. In the meantime be kind to yourself and rest as much as you can. Hope you are feeling better soon.
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I often wake up nauseous on the Utrogestan, think its the progesterone part that does it, def makes my tummy ifffy....
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Thanks ToffeeC and cassie,
I have managed to keep down my last HRT tablet thank goodness. It's like i have drunk a bottle of scotch (or any other strong alcoholic beverage) and have a hangover of gargantuan proportions. My palms are sweating. I keep on telling myself it will get better , but i am not very convincing.
Peppermintyxx
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Are you sure it's not a bug. It really sounds like one with sickness and the runs.
HRT shouldn't be doing this to you, but if it is I would go back to your GP as soon as you can and change.Patches are easier on the tummy.
But again, are you sure you haven't got a bug.
Take care of yourself.
Honeyb
x
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Yes Honeybun, thanks for replying, this happened last month when I had my period. My GP bless, is next to useless with women's problems. It's definitely the HRT, or at least at that time in the cycle. I have had sweaty palms on and off anyway, just worse today. I will have to wait for my appointment with the meno nurse in June. Last year when I took prempac i seem to remember it getting worse each cycle , not better , which is a bit scary.
Trouble is I don't want to give HRT up as , I have had some improvements , my brain works again and I am not constantly exhausted (still not great though). My bits below are improving and i can cope generally better (I think ). Although at this moment it's hard to remain positive.
I still feel sick , maybe some porridge will help. Quite frankly I'd try anything at this point.
Peppermintyxx
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Try to eat little and often and try not to worry as anxiety will only make you feel worse. Rest the best you can, bet by lunch time you are feeling much better :)
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pepperminty - It is quite common to get a bit of an upset tummy around the time of our period/withdrawal bleed but HRT usually settles bowel problems for many of us. I do think you've got a tummy bug though - you are describing typical symptoms of a virus. You sound terribly anxious and expecting problems to emerge - probably because you have had these issues in the past. Many of us blame HRT for symptoms when in fact these symptoms are actually worse without HRT??!! Have you got some Co-Codamol to take - this is a good painkiller for headaches and the small amount of codeine in it can reduce diarrhoea - just don't take this too often.
Are you prone to frequent bowel movements? Do you have a high fibre diet? I can easily go 2-3 times a day and have to up my protein intake to help reduce this.
The only other preparation that you could try is Femoston Sequi which also has a kinder progesterone which many women do very well with. However, you are on a very good regime and I'd give this 3-6 months to settle.
If you are still peri menopause then your own hormones will be fluctuating and this can really effect things but your body will settle in time. DG x
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Hello pepperminty.
So sorry that you are suffering I know how you feel.
Have you recently started using this type of HRT? The reason I ask is that I am just over two months in to a new regime ( Evorel Conti 50 mcg ) and as I am due to see my GP soon for a review I thought I'd take another look at the patient information leaflet and read up on the side effects. A lot of what I've been experiencing is listed on the sheet which confirms the problems are caused by hormones ( obviously ) but also that the HRT may be producing it's own kind of upheaval and this may settle in time. If this is the case you may find that your symptoms diminish as your body adjusts to this particular HRT.
I hope you find relief as soon as possible, this hormonal roller coaster ride is no fun at all and you have my sympathy.
Wishing you well and take care.
K.
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Thanks ladies , it really is the HRT at period time. This is my second bleed and just finished the third packet. Onto packet 4 tomorrow. I wasn't anxious before as yesterday I was feeling ok. I woke up with this at 5.30 am and had to go straight to the loo.
I normally go easily (shall we say) at period time , but this is way worse. This comes with nausea and headache , which is difficult to function with. As my bowels are normally fine and this happens the same time on HRT I can only put it down to HRT. I didn't expect it to happen this time as my period came earlier and was relatively optimistic .
I wish it was a bug, really do! I am hoping that it all settles, it's just that being on my own it is hard to cope sometimes and sometimes you need to let it out . Mostly I am very capable and try to be pragmatic about it all. But when you are feeling so ill , it's hard. I wasn't panicky at all until i woke up retching with a sore head.
Just wish the even keel would come along a bit quicker , or at least be on the horizon. I feel so pathetic because I know it isn't forever , but I don't want to be completely incapacitated every month. I'd be happy with slightly incapacitated.
At least I have managed to get up and have eaten something.
Trying to think of positive things .
It isn't something that you can readily chat about with others , because all this stuff is hidden behind closed doors . I hadn't a clue what to expect with the peri menopause.
Thank you everyone for taking the time to answer .
Peppermintyxx
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Sorry to hear that you are feeling awful :-\
I would say that if you have already been on this hrt for 3 months and abouut to start the 4 th and you can see a definite pattern to this then maybe you need to look at a different type hrt as this would seem not to be suiting you. Hope you feel better soon.
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Thanks dazned , I feel a little less sick now . I am wondering if it is a combination of things such as my hormones doing their thing and the fact that in the mornings the dosage has worn off , due to tablet form and being low dosage. I am seeing the meno nurse in 3 weeks so I will hold onto then. She must have come across this before. Maybe I need to up the dose or do the patch route, but with a kind progesterone. I really don't mind the odd side effect as nothing is perfect as long as I am feeling better in general. But I haven't improved sufficiently yet.
I am sure I will look back on this and laugh ? ::)
Thanks again for every ones support, as you do feel you are going a bit looney tunes, as I was fine yesterday
Peppermintyxx
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pepperminty - What HRt regime are you actually using? Do remind us how you are taking your HRT regime? Are you using Utrogestan for 12 days a month and separate oestrogen every day? How do you take your oestrogen - is it in pill, patch or gel form? You talk about packets? which would suggest you are using oestrogen in pill form and this can sometimes result in more fluctuations. Patches or gel oestrogen can bring more consistency which might help you. Many women use Utrogestan vaginally which may also help reduce the chance of nausea and headache. Such extreme reactions suggests to me that you are experiencing fluctuations. The nauseous headache can be quite typical for a PMT symptom so if this is really unbearable then you might be extremely progesterone intolerant which is very difficult to overcome. However, again, I do think it is early days. I tend to get a headache before the bleed starts and just I know it's going to happen and taken some Co-Codamol to get me through.
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Hi Dancinggirl,
I am on Femeston 1/10. It is the last combined pill today and the new packet tomorrow. I have been relatively ok throughout the month, still very tired though. It just seems to happen when I have a period. That I feel this bad.
My period started 4 days into the new packet( the oestrogen only phase) last month and I was the same as I am today.
This month I have been spotting for a week and have now got a period while still on the combined progesterone bit of the packet.
I would assume if it was the progesterone I would be like this from day 14 of the pack when I start the combined bit (oestrogen and progesterone together). But it seems to be connected to the period. As soon as my period starts all hell breaks loose in the morning. That's why I am a bit at a loss as to the best solution.
I am wondering if my hormones are overriding the HRT?
I still feel nauseous and worn out, but better than I did. A little flat , but that's ok.
Thanks ever so for taking the time to reply . I hope the above makes sense.
Peppermintyxx
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Ahhh! pepperminty - I do think your are suffering from fluctuating hormones. If you start HRT in the peri stage it can be very difficult as your own hormones can still have a strong influence. When I was peri menopausal in my mid 30s and first started HRT I actually found I got very headachy at times - sometimes for days. Femoston is a good one to be on and I think you are just going to have to persevere while things settle down - it can take around 6 months.
If you usually take your pill in the morning perhaps try taking it with the evening meal so you don't get the big dip in the early morning which may be triggering the headache. Unfortunately the headache with nausea is very common before the bleed starts properly and as I mentioned before you just need to be prepared - eat small meals often, avoid caffeine and alcohol and have some Paracetomol or Co-Codamol ready to take to help you through. The reason one gets this headache and nausea is because the progesterone level suddenly drops to trigger the bleed when you go back to the oestrogen only pills and it's the bodies reaction to this.
I'm afraid HRT is often a compromise - the benefits do have to outweigh the side effects. Try not to worry, be patient and if in 3-4 months you are really finding the withdrawal bleeds an issue then perhaps consider having a Mirena (which would eventually result in no bleed at all) with separate oestrogen - this would keep you on a more even state. Sadly any sequential HRt will probably have this effect on you because of the need for a withdrawal bleed and as you are peri menopausal you can't use continuous HRT - although I'm 59 and very post meno and still using sequential HRT as progesterone all the time can give issues.
I have a feeling things will get better for you over the next few months. Dg x
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Thanks DG,
I think you are right. I will try taking the pill later. Also perhaps I may need a stronger dose than I/10 ?
I do take painkillers when needed and I don't drink alcohol. ( if only I could , but it makes me feel ill).
I did have the mirena coil fitted a few years ago ,but unfortunately it took 2 operations and an emergency admission through A&E for them to get it in there ( long story) ! And then after 4 months because I was swelling up amongst other things they decided to whip it out. So I don't think that's an option I can go down again.
Thanks again for the sensible advice. :)
I can cope with the mood thing , the headache and nausea , aching limbs, exhaustion , but not all at once first thing in the morning!! A couple on the go together, maybe!?
I do hope my eggs give up the ghost soon and stop fighting.
I am going to go to bed early and hopefully wake up feeling fine.
Well at least I know where to come if I have another wobble!! Thank goodness for the forum. I'll try to be optimistic and not expect to have one.
Here's hoping I am eventually a success story.
Peppermintyxx
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pepperminty - I wouldn't increase the dose just yet as you are peri meno. I found too much oestrogen gave me headaches in the peri stage so I'd stick with this dose for now - that's not to say you won't need a higher dose later.
Before I went on HRT I got truly horrible headaches when my periods did come so you might experience worse headaches without HRT??!! I'm sure you will feel better soon. Keep us posted. DG x
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Thanks DG,
I am feeling a bit better at the moment, so fingers crossed. I didn't get headaches on prempac but was very intolerant to that progesterone. So I kind of think that (and reading some of the posts) one minute you can be fine on HRT and the next your hormones do a summersault and its a hot mess again!
I had such a good day yesterday and thought I had finished with the PMT this month. I was wrong !! Still I didn't have a complete melt down like last month as at least I was aware that it was peri period related etc. It's just the horrible physical symptoms.
Not just a bit of tummy ache and a touch of the grumps as it was in pre meno years. I didn't realise that they got worse as you get older. Even when I had a spate of bad flooding years ago, it didn't cause me this much trouble.
You're a star.
Peppermintyxx
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Oh poor you.
It sounds really rough. Diarrhoea really drains you. I had it every day for 3 weeks straight before starting HRT.
One thing I was thinking. When you see your meno nurse could you perhaps ask her about separate patches and Utrogestan, and then you take the Utro vaginally? That way it doesn't pass through your stomach or bowel and should be much easier to tolerate.
There's also the option of giving yourself a slightly longer cycle, so that you take oestrogen only for 6-8 weeks, and then the progesterone for 12 days? I was amazed at how casual my consultant was about me doing this 'if that's what suits you best'. Basically so long as I allowed myself a bleed every 6-8 weeks she really wasn't bothered.
I know you would still have to suffer the consequences of the progesterone, but only experiencing it every other month would be better. And especially if maybe the Utro was easier to take?
I'm no expert, but I thought this might be an option? It would perhaps be wise to brave one further full cycle though before finally deciding that this is how it's going to be?
I really feel for you. One day we shall BOTH be more grey, and a bit more lined, but we will be calm and serene all through the month, and this will be like a bad dream.
I never thought I would say this, but I really envy my Mum and her friends. Even though they are 20-30 years older than me, they are all very buoyant and even tempered. Very calm and centered. Their menopauses are just a faded memory.
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Hi GRL,
Thanks, I think you are right I will brave one more cycle , just to make sure it doesn't right itself , just saw a pink elephant go by. Who needs colonic irrigation when you have this once a month?
??? :o
At least then I can be sure. I will take my symptoms along to the nurse , armed with your suggestion ref long cycle and progesterone every 6-8 wks. low moods are bad enough , but add the almighty hang over feeling , it's twice as bad.
:o
I know what you mean about envying the ladies who have successfully navigated meno . I will be the one with blond high lights to lessen the grey! Yep I already have those pesky grey ones popping out of the Barnet.
Apparently the nurse sees squillions of women , so she must have a solution or two up her sleeve, one hopes at least. It must be my cycle overriding the HRT as it has come while on the progesterone part and last month it was after in the oestrogen bit. All I need is it to come in the middle and I have a full set!! (oh crap please no !!)
I hope you are feeling a bit better .
peppermintyxx
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Hi pepperminty - sorry to hear you are feeling rough. It sounds like tablet HRT may not agree with you. I agree with any of the others who suggested you might be better off using transdermal HRT - ie patch or gel, with separate utrogestan ( although this can sometimes cause nausea too), which is recommended for headaches and nausea:
Indications for non-tablet route.
Individual preference.
Poor symptom control with tablet HRT.
Side effects such as nausea with tablet.
Bowel disorder which may affect absorption of tablet therapy.
History of migraine (when steadier hormone levels which may be achieved with a patch may be beneficial).
Lactose sensitivity (all tablet preparations of HRT contain lactose).
History of gallstones.
Current use of medications such as anti-epileptic medication which may interfere with the break-down of tablet HRT.
Variable blood pressure.
High triglyceride levels.
Risk factors, family history or past history of deep vein thrombosis or pulmonary embolus, after full discussion and specialist advice when necessary.
http://www.menopausematters.co.uk/route.php
As well as the possibility of your own cycle breaking through it could also be the build up of progestogen - maybe you are sensitive to it to some extent? I get those feelings - vice like headache, garagantuan hangover, nausea - sometimes on the progesterone part - but for me this is the start of a migraine which then lasts for 3 days. Also sensitivity to light and sound - do you get this too?
Anyway hope you are feeling better now.
Hurdity x
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I think you're very sensible to stick with for another full cycle. With 3 cycles under your belt there will be a definite pattern to glean from.
I'm going to do the same. At the moment I am completely off-piste with my HRT. First month started mid cycle. And already in my second month I am tinkering with the progesterone and delaying my bleed by 2.5 weeks. But as soon as we're back off holiday I'm going to start the 12 days of Utro and just grit my teeth if my mood really dips when the withdrawl bleed comes (Oh I sound so brave when I'm feeling 'normal' don't I?).
And then I will stick with it through at least one more full cycle (maybe 2!) to see if it looks like I'm always going to really dip during my bleed. If it looks like that will be the case I will just put myself through the nightmare maybe every 6 weeks and see if I can sweet talk my GP into letting me take diazepam just for those 4 days??? I'm only joking (well, maybe).
We will get through this. In 12 months time we'll be posting, saying sagely 'Yes, well when I first started HRT it was such a roller coaster but nowadays it's wonderful. My mood is always so calm and I feel full of energy.'
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Hi Hurdity.
Thanks for posting. No I don't have migraines as such, but yesterday I felt so ill in the morning that quiet and dark were the best option, and concentrating was extremely difficult. I just seem to feel dreadful on my period with HRT. I feel a bit crap and tired before my period generally(that's ok) and when it starts the first official day (as far as my body is concerned) is awful, with the aforementioned symptoms. This never happened before HRT to this extreme extent .
This cycle's symptoms happened whist still on the combined part ( both oestrogen and progesterone ) and the last cycle's symptoms were just after the combined part starting the new pack. Same symptoms slightly different place.
The physically ill type symptoms are the crusher and seem to happen first thing in the morning and where off as the day goes on (thank goodness), but the anxiety and general crapness still remains although I can accept that and cope with it as best I can.
If it were the build up of progesterone I would expect that this morning I would have the same symptoms , as I took the last combined pill yesterday morning and I am ok today , except for the usual aches and general 'I feel crap in the morning feeling'. Maybe that's where changing the time of day I take the pill may help??
I have had positive HRT effects , such as clarity of mind , I was like a gold fish before, and I don't slur my words or forget things as much. I am less exhausted although this still has a long way to go in terms of improvement. I look less like a zombie , dark circles are diminished , indicating to me that my sleep quality has improved. And down below improving (I don't mean my feet).
I still have aches though (maybe worse), and my grip strength has declined .
I am basing my assumption that I may need more oestrogen on the fact that last year when I took prempac (which is a higher dosage than Femeston1/10) I had so much more energy and my aches disappeared over night , I remember thinking , I can do the washing up after 5pm!! Where as on this dosage the improvements have not been so noticeable /dramatic in terms of energy or feeling better.
The trouble with the prempac was the progesterone , I couldn't stop crying and felt awful . I did have nausea on it to begin with , but it was manageable and eventually wore off.
I feel flat today and not great but better than yesterday. I could cry if a goose sad boo to me , but I could hold it back , if that makes sense!!
Any of your fabulous insights and suggestions would be welcome. :)
Hi GRL,
Thanks , I think that is sensible like you say, one more month to make sure and by that time I will be seeing the meno nurse. I am exactly like you , brave when I am feeling a bit better. Still a bit scared today though, as I really want this to work. I am not asking for perfection , just to be able to function .As I have said before , its not too much to ask to have the energy to wash up after 5pm is it? People don't understand why I am single and don't go out more, but when all your energy is taken up by working and there is literally nothing left afterwards what can you do? Just a little more energy would be wonderful. This menopause malarkey doesn't half knock ones confidence.
Yes you are right , eventually all this turmoil will finish , how long depends on the luck of the draw.
So there are options ,
Increase dose
change type/route
long cycle?
Stray jacket
We will get through this!!!!
Have a super doper holiday .
Peppermintyxx