Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: pepperminty on May 07, 2015, 04:04:27 PM
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Hi ladies,
I am on Femeston 1/10 and on my second packet half way through the progesterone bit. I have improved in terms of anxiety and my brain fog has improved also. But I am noticeably more tired on the progesterone phase,(so far).When I say more tired , I mean so tired I left the gas on and forgot to cook the chicken and could sleep standing up! I was wondering if going onto femeston 2/10 would improve things? Does the stronger oestrogen counter act the progesterone? Has anyone had experience of improvement in tiredness by upping the oestrogen ?
Thanks Pepperminty xx
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Have got no knowledge on this one but I just wanted to send you a hug! xx
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Thanks Greenfields,
I hope you are feeling better.
Pminty xx
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If you do a search you'll find out how others have coped with this part of treatment, I remember crashing fatigue at certain times of the month so there is a connection ;)
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Thanks, I couldn't find a specific answer, as to upping the oestrogen.
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Hopefully someone will be along ……
Or you could speak to a Pharmacist?
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Oh bugger it. I was keeping my fingers crossed for you, as you're my white lab mouse running ahead of me through this hormonal maze, as you know ;)
I take Utrogestan separately on days 15-26. Last month I noticed I did feel a little bit more tired on the Utro during the day. And the quality of my sleep was better. But it wasn't anything too debilitating. Since I've been back on just the Estradot patch, my sleep has continued to be much better and I feel brighter during the day.
I don't know about the benefits of taking stronger oestrogen? Hopefully Hurdity will be along soon ;D
I am really glad your anxiety is better though. Onwards and upwards :)
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Thanks GypesyRoseLee,
I have had some improvements thank goodness, such as the anxiety and the feeling unwell constantly have gone but the tiredness and lack of energy is still a problem and the aches and pains seem to be worse . I still get a little nervy when I wake up , but this appears to be common with a lot of ladies . My sleep has improved like you. I know this mainly because before I took the HRT I had permanent dark circles under and around my eyes , they were so noticeable that if I didn't wear concealer my friends would all ask if I was unwell , I did look dreadful. Quite frankly I looked dreadful some days with concealer!! Like I had been up for days without any sleep. Now the dark circles are far less noticeable and I don't look so knackered. Yes I was hoping that Hurdity might know . I have yet to finish the second pack a week and a half to go , then my period. That's the part of the pack that I went into PMT meltdown before , but at least I am prepared this time I suppose.
I just wonder if the oestrogen part needs to be upped to improve my symptoms further and to counteract the progesterone, or doesn't it work like that?
I feel a bit flat today, as I am aching so much, Funny that this has worsened on HRT? Thanks for your support and I am glad you are feeling better.
Peppermintyxx
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I've had very achy ankles these last two days. Enough to make me limp when I first get up. It eases off during the morning, but I don't know why it happens.
If you like, when I see my consultant on Tuesday I can ask about upping the oestrogen to counteract the dip during the withdrawal bleed? I was going to ask for myself anyway.
You still might be okay during your bleed, you might not have a dip? I'm hoping that I might not dip this time because hopefully the oestrogen will have had more time to provide a better buffer.
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Thanks for your support GypsyRoseLee,
Yes it does ease up during the day a bit. I had a run of this aching Business a couple of years ago ( while not taking HRT ) and when I went on prempac they went practically over night. I had to come off prempac because I reacted badly to the progesterone. I had a pain in my ankle too, which caused me to limp out of bed , but that suddenly went after 6 months!
Yes I agree , we might not get a dip this time , lets hope so!! I am not all doom and gloom , which I would have been previously. It's just that I know my own body and although I don't expect to go back to my old job/self as an Olympic athlete and cirque du soleil performer and part time nuclear physics professor , I feel that at 48 I am not ready to just give up living as I am too tired and only running on 50%. It is only when you feel well that you realise how ill you felt before .
Yes if you could through that in with the consultant , that would be great !!
I have asked my GP for a referral , and he has done that for me , but it could take months!! I think we have said before there must be a rule of thumb about these things in the majority.
Pmintyxx
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That's made me laugh out loud ;D
Like you I'm not expecting to return to my previous, highly successful career as both an internationally renowned burlesque dancer and consultant neurologist.
But I want to feel like a healthy 40 year old as opposed to an achy 60 year old.
When I look back, my mother in law was only 49 when I first met her. Going through menopause and definitely never any HRT. She looked 60! Stiff joints. Skin like paper and completely grey.
My Mum was actually 2 years older, but looked 15 years younger than my mil thanks to HRT.
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Yep ,I think we may have the same sense of humour ! My mum was on HRT for 18yrs and always looked good for her age. Incidentally she had no problems on it! I must admit I am having a wobbly today. It's hard sometimes to cope when you are on your own, although I have good friends, they are not here in the morning , or when I go to bed !! I have had a rough year so far , for many reasons and it is hard not to have a wobble now and again. I need to get back to work , and I am looking for jobs at the moment. I had a challenging career and when I compiled my CV recently I realised I have achieved a lot , but may have to start again and work my way up. I am afraid it's all who you know these days.
Still as you say onwards and upwards,
Pmintyxx
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Pepperminty you and I have a lot in common - sending hugs xx
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Indeed Greenfields,
Bit of a mare when you have a dramatic drop in income !! It's good to have your support too, sending good vibes back! Bit of a mare when you have a dramatic drop in hormones too!! The only thing I haven't dropped is the fat round my middle which seems to have just appeared overnight!! Still maintaining my sense of humour through the hormonal haze.
Pmintyxx ;D ;D
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Thanks Sparkle , hijack away!! I am glad it made you smile. I am glad someone else has got my humour too! :D
Yep the dark circles thing appears to be lack of hormones and quality of sleep.
I use a good light reflecting concealer that is not too heavy. also putting a bit of high lighter under the brow bone works wonders. Something with a yellow based tone. It lifts the eyes.
Or if I am desperate a balaclava helmet does the trick :D
Pepperminty xx
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Love that comment Pepperminty!
Yes I've managed to maintain my sense of humour which has helped a bit.
Someone who supported me immediately after the breakdown I had told me that I would need to learn to be kind to myself at a level that I had previously not known - and I think that's also so true. I've had to be so kind to myself when I can barely function and to recognise that I am still a worthwhile human being even when I'm not capable of very much.
I've always loved the quote: "Just to be is a blessing. Just to live is holy." by Abraham Joshua Heschel.
The other phrases that have helped me of late are from a Buddhist talk I listened to recently: "this is how things are right now" and "my happiness depends on my response to my life circumstances."
Sending hugs xxx
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Hi Greenfields,
It is so difficult to think logically and clearly when you are in the depths of despair . When you are a competent, rational, intelligent human being and all your hormones go to pot , there is nothing you can do , but ride it out using various medications such as AD's or HRT ,therapy, the natural routes or time . I am lucky in that I realised my symptoms were meno related fairly early on. Even through the darkest moments of despair , I have a sense of humour, albeit a black one. I didn't sleep well last night , but the difference on HRT is that I can cope with it better and my brain isn't so foggy. That's quality of life. It's a case of slowing down and not feeling guilty. I am not quite there yet , more tweaking to do . ???
Taking control is also important, feeling out of control causes anxiety . Small things can make a difference , food, exercise and having the courage to seek help whether that be through medication of therapy. Live for today , because you only get one shot at today.
Peppermintyxx
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Just heard that Balaclava sales are up ! ;D
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But I want to feel like a healthy 40 year old as opposed to an achy 60 year old.
Oi! I'm now 62 and don't want to be achey either - I am not an old woman y'know! Also want to feel like a healthy 62 year old!!!
Re the oestrogen/progesterone question pepperminty.
Hmmm well if you are still peri-menopausal and have plenty of your own oestrogen and the HRT is just topping it up - then you may still experience a mood dip (due to reduction in oestrogen) to some extent in the second part of your cycle (because oestrogen more or less declines during the second half of the cycle) - but that is assuming you still have a fairly regular underlying cycle. Even if you have a cycle now and again - then your body would still register the oestrogen dips. The HRT gives a constant dose of oestrogen so should prevent the worst of the mood dips due to oestrogen crashes - but of course the levels in your body are usually nowhere near what they rise to just before ovulation.
Again if you are still having a cycle and ovulating now and again then you will have your own progesterone too which will add to what's in the HRT so could compound the tiredness effect!
I don't think an increase in oestrogen will counter the effect of the progesterone - in other words its sedative effect which can lead to fatigue), but the higher dose will mean that a higher level of oestrogen will remain in your system and should prevent the mood dips experinced during the sceond half of the cycle. Unfortunately if you are sensitive to progesterone it is something you have to put up with.... but if it is causing serious problems then a specialist may recommend a shorter dose (ie taking it for fewer days per month) under supervision.
If you are still getting background meno symptoms throughout the month then an increase in dose could be the way to go :)
Hurdity x
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Thanks Hurdity ,
I hoped you would post !! Yes that makes sense.I don't think I am progesterone intolerant to this one in Femeston 1/10 . I think it's the dip after I go on the new packet . I think I may need to up the oestrogen then .
When I was on prempac I felt good on the oestrogen phase ( energy was marvellous , could even wash up in the evenings!)and very bad on the progesterone . I don't feel bad on the progesterone in Femeston , just tired, which waxes and wanes. I also feel very achy still , so I think that implies that I need more oestrogen too. I only had one period this year and a day of spotting before starting HRT a month and a half ago , before that I was pretty regular last year. I think my eggs are giving up the ghost.
I don't think GRL meant 60 is old . These days it's a veritable spring chicken. Perhaps just that you expect a few more aches as time passes by. ::)
I am hoping that it all settles down soon.
I'd love to eventually be one of the success stories , Feeling Fab and fruity on HRT eventually.
Thanks for the advice again
Pepperminty xx
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Well woke up this morning feeling very , very achy. My hip joints are burning in the sockets and hands feel arthritic. Neck and tops of arms painful and legs very achy. I am 1 week into the progesterone part of the packet. My mood is ok , but not great as I am tired (felt hot all night), but because I feel so achy it's hard to be cheerful.I could cry , but can control it.
I don't know if this means I am intolerant to progesterone or not?
It's an effort to lift my arms.
Normally if I was this tired I'd be very emotional , I am not jumping for joy, but I am not distraught either.
I haven't a clue what to do , I want to keep with the HRT , and have just got another prescription for 1/10 , as I only had 2 and a half packets left from last years abortive attempt.
Should I try cutting the oestrogen tablets left over from the aborted pack , in half and see if the extra bit of oestrogen helps? If so when do I take it?
I have no idea why I am so achy.
It's all a bit much at the moment.
This is why there should be walk in meno clinic for women to get help and advice straight away from experts , instead of suffering for months.
I just hope all these symptoms doesn't mean I am progesterone intolerant.
Thinking of changing my name from pepperminty to " I am a bit cheesed off ".
xx
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I love the laughs too. You have to laugh at this crabby thing we are going through! :)
I came off HRT about a week ago, to my amazement I feel a lot better without it! :o
Emotionally and physically.
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Hi Leejane ,
I am glad you are feeling better. Some things have improved for me on HRT such as I don't look like I am auditioning for night of the living dead any more. And my brain works again , before I couldn't string a sentence together . I was more exhausted (still have my moments but it has improved , I think). I am more logical and less panicky. My lady bits are less sore. I can cope better generally, I think this is due to the improvement of sleep quality , although I could do with a tad more. Its the aching joints at the moment. If I didn't have that I could function more easily.
I hope no HRT works for you. When I came off last year I felt relieved initially, but all the symptoms I had before came back after a while and I decided to have another go.
It helps to write it all down for reference and the advice.
After Hurdity's reply I am pretty sure I need more oestrogen.
pmintyxx
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Hi Leejane ,
I am glad you are feeling better. Some things have improved for me on HRT such as I don't look like I am auditioning for night of the living dead any more. And my brain works again , before I couldn't string a sentence together . I was more exhausted (still have my moments but it has improved , I think). I am more logical and less panicky. My lady bits are less sore. I can cope better generally, I think this is due to the improvement of sleep quality , although I could do with a tad more. Its the aching joints at the moment. If I didn't have that I could function more easily.
I hope no HRT works for you. When I came off last year I felt relieved initially, but all the symptoms I had before came back after a while and I decided to have another go.
It helps to write it all down for reference and the advice.
After Hurdity's reply I am pretty sure I need more oestrogen.
pmintyxx
I suspect you are right that my symptoms will return after a while. I am seeing my doctor on Wednesday to discuss the best way forward.
I also think it is relief I am feeling at present. My cousin got breast cancer whilst on HRT and I think that had quite an impact on me.
LOL! I too looked like a zombie! Chalky white face!! Scary! Got some colour again now.
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Hi LJ,
I have a very small lawn and have just forced myself to mow it. Feel like I have run a marathon , while carrying 2 sacks of potatoes in high heels. I wish I had married an HRT specialist , then he could tweek me as necessary .
I know what you mean about relief, I felt the same initially last year. It's devil and the deep blue see at the moment.
The meno nurse I spoke to was very reassuring , but I can't see her for a while as I am waiting for the appointment to come through. Trouble is when you are like this , up and down like a pair of knickers with no elastic you need reassurance and advice ASAP. That's why this forum is good.
I had trouble turning the tap on and off today , I had to use a towel to gain purchase. LOL.
My mother had breast cancer , but she still doesn't regret HRT as she wouldn't have been able to work/function without it. She looks good for her years. A person's risk of developing cancer depends on many factors, including age, genetics, and exposure to risk factors (including some potentially avoidable lifestyle factors). I think statistically HRT raises the risk minimally , and the fact that a lot of gynaecologists are taking it speaks volumes.
But I totally understand why you are concerned.
Well I look less like a Zombie , but feel like one now !!
The other solution is to win the lottery. At the moment if I won enough I'd open up free meno clinics around the country and give all you lovely women first dibs . One can dream.
Pmintyxx
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'LJ', I like that. :)
I relate to getting exhausted by a seemingly small job.
It is like bouncing around emotionally. Very hard to remain stable. My own doctor also put the fear of God into me about HRT. Then when my cousin mentioned her cancer, I just thought omg!
I am very lucky that I no longer work. I retired some years ago, I was in a very stressful, fast pace job. Nooooooo way would I have been able to do that now. It was very large open plan office, so even just the noise of a couple hundred people would have had me laying on the floor freaking out!
I am on 40mg Prozac a day which I feel is helping massively. I went into such a dark depression but that has lifted now.
I have learnt so much from this wonderful forum. Also reassurance that I am not going nuts! The worst thing was looking at my husband (of 12 years) wondering who the heck he was!!
I will discuss medication my doc on Weds. I don't smoke, drink alcohol and amrmal body weight so that must all put the risks lower.
Thanks, Pepperminty
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Well shock horror, I slept well "ish", and this morning I didn't ache so much and was not so knackered . Could I be bedding in successfully with HRT ? Have my hormones stopped fighting and have given up in disgust ?
Can't believe the time , and only just starting to feel knackered! I do hope that this is the turning point , it's amazing what actually feeling relatively normal does for you ! My optimism is positively nauseating . It's only been 1 day of not feeling crap and I am so grateful. There is hope.
HOPE , that 3 letter word that we all need.
I also have an appointment in June with the meno clinic , so that's positive too.
Wishing all your hopes come true.
Peppermintyxx
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Glad you've had a better day. I'm keeping everything crossed that you don't dip this month.
As for aches and pains, I have developed a nasty dull ache all down my right arm. Very similar to when you've bumped your funny bone, but it's constant. It also feels like my blood pressure is far too high in just my arm. Really odd.
Will ask my consultant about it tomorrow, as this pain coincided with a very sharp headache which lasted for 5 days as my mood started to lift. Headache is long gone but this pain in my arm is really annoying me. Can't help but think it might be related to my HRT?
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Thanks girls.
Humour is so important in life Sparkle , I do try!!
Hi GRL,
I hope your appointment went well (do tell all). And that your arm is behaving.
I have an appointment in June so I am going to keep with the Femeston 1/10 until then and go up to 2/10 if they advise , as I really need more energy. Been a bit spacey and tired today. As I have said before , I'd be thrilled to have the energy to wash up after 5pm, which isn't a lot to ask.
5 more days to go before the end of the pack , and hoping that I am just a bit miserable and not off the charts like last time ! It comes to something when a bit miserable and hoping to do washing up after 5pm are your goals! Who am I and where did I go? Or do you just get more easily pleased ?
Peppermintyxx
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;D Pepperminty - oo-er re the washing up! Little steps....
Yes some time we do get more easily pleased but depending on your circumstances - sometimes you can do more than you did before eg having had 4 children that was pretty restricting in terms of what I could do and afford, so now a bit more able to spread my wings and do things that just weren't possilbe. Trying to fit more in until we get too old!
Hurdity :) x
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Hi Hurdity,
oo-er indeed . and a drum role!! ;D
All humour aside , I am looking forward to the day I have the energy to enjoy myself. I am glad you are spreading your wings and living life to the full. I hope to get to the stage where I can work and have enough energy to enjoy life outside work rather than get home and be too exhausted to move . That's my goal. Life is too short . I am looking for a job at the moment , so wish me luck. Let's hope the HRT eventually gives me the ability to wash up at least, although they don't put that as one of the pro's of taking it along with prevention of heart disease and osteoporosis. ::)
Peppermintyxx
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Hi Pepperminty
I have posted about my consultant appointment if you want to read the details (I was quite disappointed). But in a nutshell she said that taking a higher dose of oestrogen all month won't necessarily stop your mood from really dipping a few days after you stop taking the prog.' But she said that all women are so different, that she couldn't say for certain.
She did think my oestrogen patch of Estradot 25mg was really too low, because I am still 'very young' (I am 44). She would prefer me on a 50mg patch as that would better protect me against hot flushes. But I have never had a hot flush. So...?
She also said she was quite happy for me to not have a withdrawl bleed this month, if I wanted to avoid a potential 'mood dip' just before we go on holiday at the end of next week. She was very casual about when to take the Utrogestan, and said that so long as I allowed myself a bleed every 8 weeks or so, then she was fine with that and that I could manipulate the Utro' to suit my lifestyle.
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Hi GRL,
Crickey, I read your post , how disappointing. Thank goodness you are on a regime that suits you and don't have to change , because she was hardly inspiring! Sometimes doctor's get a little antsy if they suspect the patient is well informed . As others have said perhaps she is menopausal !! I hope my appointment in a month is better than that. I do hope you have a fab holiday.
I was knackered yesterday and this morning a bit achy but my mood is alright. I have noticed some light brown stuff down below (sorry TMI) very , very light , but this is new for me, so not sure if its normal as I am on the end week of my combined bit of the pack. I am wondering what this signifies if anything?
Peppermintyxx