Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: babyjane on May 04, 2015, 09:57:35 AM
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I do not know all the statistics and I realise there are 2 strong opposite opinions about this so I don't want to cause any disagreements, but I do wonder if some breast cancers could be attributed to HRT, (the ones that are hormone fed). My cousin was recently diagnosed with BC and has had surgery and radiotherapy. She took the contraceptive pill from the age of 17, only stopping briefly to have 2 childen in her 30s, then changed it for HRT at the start of menopause symptoms. That's an awful lot of extra oestrogen for a very long time.
Of course it could just be random but it set me thinking (trying to stay diplomatic here as I have seen what strong opinions can do to the harmony in the group :-X)
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It's always difficult to work out what has caused a cancer. There is a small risk of breast cancer from using HRT - higher with combined HRT than oestrogen only I believe. However, I have a good friend who had an oestrogen receptive cancer and has never taken the pill or HRT. There is a risk from drinking alcohol (wine in particular) but lots of people don't seem to know that. I have found the info on this site http://www.breakthrough.org.uk/about-breast-cancer/breast-cancer-risk-factors really informative. Just click on the download box.
Taz x
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I had to go on hrt from age 32, I'm now 48, and when I was 40 I moved to a new county with a new gp who called me in to say I had to stop hrt because of the risks of breast cancer, I refused point blank and said as much as I hope it never happens to me, I can't and won't come off it, I could potentially spends years suffering for nothing, then about a year later I found a lump and had to go for scan, but in those 2 weeks waiting for answers, I still didn't regret my decision with hrt , I know we're all different with our thoughts but I smoked for years knowing the potential consequences of that too, maybe I'm stupid but I live for the here and now, but nowadays trying to keep myself as healthy as I can manage
It's a personal thing is hrt
Annie
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My sister had BC, later bone cancer from which she died. There is no other close family history of BC. She took the pill for 8 years, then had fertility treatment, though the jury is out on whether this had any bearing on it. I didn't really consider HRT, because of this. I then suffered years of extreme exhaustion, having to do less and less work, till eventually having to give up work. At age 60, I started HRT. I know there are risks, but I also know what it is like to living a half life and having no energy to do the things I want to do. For me it has to be quality of life over quantity. Many of my family have lived to a great age and the thought of living as I was for another 30 years is unthinkable when HRT has given me back my life. It might be a shorter life, but it is a better life. It has to be an individual choice, with knowledge of the risks.
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Sorry to hear about your sister JuJu xxx
Annie
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Thank you for sharing your thoughts, they make a lot of sense and I have read each one and thank you for the info Taz2.
Ju Ju I am sorry to read of your sister. Did anyone watch 'The C-Word' last night?
I do wonder if some of my difficulties are down to lowering levels of oestrogen but I do not feel they are bad enough to turn to HRT, although it is always interesting, for me, to read the experiences shared in this lovely group :hug:
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Just watched The C Word. She found the joy in living while dying. I don't think my sister did, which is the saddest thing of all.
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Hi babyjane
It's not really a question of opinion really - but the fact that data from population studies can be contradictory and of course you can't really do too many experiments on real people for obvious reasons! Therefore a lot of the information will be on cross-sectional (looking at a whole range of people at a given point in time) or longitudinal (following a given popluation over time) studies rather than actual trials.
The arguments are usually due to misinformation and lack of knowledge about the data that are available.
As I understand it oestrogen will cause oestrogen-fed breast cancers to grow and spread more rapidly than without oestrogen - but it is not oestrogen thast causes the the cancer in the first place.
In any case as Taz says the causal relationship is difficult to determine and there are other factors that have a greater risk than HRT like being overweight, being sedenatry, drinking too much alcohol and smoking.
Not sure how far you are into menopause babyjane - have you had your "last" period ie have 12 months passed since this event? Aside from the obvious menopausal symptoms that can happen around the time of the menopausal transition I'm sure you are aware that there are symptoms of long term oestrogen deficiency which don't usually begin to become apparent until at least 2 years post-menopause and once they start will not get any better - eg vaginal atrophy, bladder problems, osteoporosis. Womn who have had an easy menopause with few symptoms may well be more at risk from these long term problems because they are less likely to take HRT and the problems when they occur will not be readily atrtributed to menopause/oestrogen deficiency.
Those of us who experienced severe symptoms earlier on and who remain on HRT will already have the protection and may well prevent these other problems from occurring - or at least so severely.
Glad you are not feeling too bad now though! :)
Hurdity x
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Apparently my breast lump which was removed totally was oestrogen dominant. Clinically it was normal. Found on palpation. No lymph nodes involved. Had radiation treatment followed by yearly mammograms for 10 years.
I took The Pill for 10 years. I also had 2 months HRT …….. can't remember what it was. Even if it was relevant, had my meno symptoms been severe, I would have demanded treatment. My GP never hesitated when I required treatment for atrophy.
Neither my Surgeon nor my Oncologist knew what would have happened had I not had the lump removed, i.e. would the cancer have spread or :-\
After all, we could get run over by the proverbial bus in the morning ::). I do wonder though how many ladies are offered a mammogram and/or full internal investigation before HRT is prescribed? so that we have a bench mark.
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Hello Hurdity, thank you for your reply. I had a hysterectomy with ovaries retained when I was 38 so I never knew where I was in the menopause as I had no bleeding. I started with hot flushes about 5 years ago and they have tailed off a bit recently. I have successfully treated VA with Vagifem and my cystitis, irritable bladder and thrush are things of the past.
My GP tried to get me onto HRT and SSRIs about 10 years ago rather than really listen to what I was trying to tell her, so I tried several preparations but felt awful on all of them.
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I lost 3 close members of my family who all died much earlier than expected and much earlier than their parents had. They all took great care of their health and did all the right things. Two had untreatable cancers and one had complications from gallstones.
I think quality of life in the here and now is important. There is no point compromising that for an entirely theoretical longevity. If you have an existing disease or very strong family inheritance, then it is more clear cut you have to strike a balance.
Despite all the statistical analysis that goes on, we can't really predict what we will die from.
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well said!
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That is very true, however I personally feel that the symptoms of menopause if you do not use HRT cannot compare to the rigors of chemotherapy and radiotherapy from what I have seen. It isn't about longevity but quality of life, as you say, but I don't see much quality of life in months and years fighting a cancer with toxic treatment. In the end my mother requested that her treatment be stopped because it was so appalling and not offering any hope. When her oncologist was sure she knew the consequences of stopping he agreed.
There have been times I could have gone down the HRT route but nothing I have encountered in the menopause has equalled what mum went through and I decided not to take the risk.
I know others will not agree and I don't want to open disagreement, it is just how I see it myself.
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No one has to undergoe chemo etc.. It is what is recommended and sometimes treatment works.
However, living in the moment: quality of Life ladies :-\ ???
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"There have been times I could have gone down the HRT route but nothing I have encountered in the menopause has equalled what mum went through and I decided not to take the risk."
You see, in direct contrast to that I HAVE had a nasty breast cancer scare many years ago. Turned out just to be fibroid and had it removed. But they were the longest 3 weeks of my life.
But the peri menopausal anxiety, depression and feelings of despair that have nearly overwhelmed me these last 16 months are so much, much worse than any of the anxiety and worry I faced during my breast cancer scare.
Much of these last 16 months have just felt like a living nightmare. Relentlessly scared, relentlessly anxious, relentlessly panicking. Feeling so low that I can't even bring myself to smile at my own children? Then just a week or so reprieve when my hormones stop fluctuating, before it all starts again.
It's been no life to live. And pretty grim for my family too. They deserve better.
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Relentless is a good expression. Have you talked to your family about how you are feeling; that this is hormonal; how they are able to help ……..
With careful checking of family history and making sure that the GPs know which Research to 'quote', we can make informed decisions. Quality of Life!
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Have to say I agree with you gypsyrose, not to undermine anyone else's opinions or experiences, this last year has been the most hellish time for myself and my children for the same reasons as you pretty much Gypsy rose, and the thought of enduring another year of the same would be too much to bear....not in a dramatic way, but brutally honest....each to their own, but for me, and for the sake of my family, whatever helps I will take xx/
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Like you say everyone is different Tropical and everyone has different tolerances.
But, like you I simply couldn't bear to think I might have to face another year like the one I have just endured. I have so many desperately unhappy memories of this last year.
Sitting crying in the loo due to random anxiety, at my friend's Xmas party was one :(
Having to fake a migraine in order to cut short my daughter's birthday meal, because I was crippled with random anxiety again is another :(
Waking my husband up at 3am telling him I felt so terrified and anxious that I wanted to find every pill in the house and swallow them all just to make it stop is another :(
There's dozens more, but it's too upsetting to list them all. I wasn't living, I was just existing. And it was a horrible existence much of the time.
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Just to say (as someone who has been through the 'full-house' of treatments for breast cancer and is facing more surgery) that you have made some very valid points babyjane.
Furthermore, whilst not wishing to belittle anyone's feelings, a breast cancer scare is doubtless awful, but, VERY different from receiving a diagnosis, going through treatment, the ongoing 'scare' of never knowing when/if it will return.....
Yes, CLKD, no-one has to accept chemo - we all make choices in life. I chose to go ahead with chemo etc., otherwise I'd have died.
This isn't a competition - is living with menopausal symptoms worse than going through breast cancer treatment???? but just to say that the majority of breast cancers are oestrogen positive so many ladies with a breast cancer diagnosis experience both (because HRT is subsequently contraindicated).
I realise this is a menopause forum and many of you are on HRT and are strong advocates for it so my experiences and opinions don't really matter.
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Oh YES they (your opinions) *do* matter! Sharing experiences is what gives people pause for thought. They can mull over and choose what is appropriate.
I decided early on that I wouldn't have chemo, fortunately I didn't require it. The Tamoxifen however almost killed me :'( [long story short].
It would be helpful as we discuss over and over, if GPs would be sympathetic in the first instance and not dismissive; and not throw the 'cancer' card at us immediately! Having battled with symptoms, having battled to get the appt. 1 doesn't need another battle :sigh:
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I take HRT because I want to LIVE while I am alive. Before HRT, I was watching life pass me by.I want to have the energy to walk, to look after my grandchild, to say goodbye to my son at the airport rather than at home ( :'( me later today! D ). I want to be able to travel to see my son, his wife and their baby when it is born. Things that were becoming increasingly more difficult before HRT. I have seen the effects of cancer on someone close to me. I know the risks, but they are 'what ifs'. My choice.
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I am so glad you have all taken the time to post your replies, thank you all. :thankyou:
Gypsy and Tropical I sincerely hope that you are feeling better and now have the quality of life that you were missing before. :foryou:
Tiger, thank you for your words, your opinions and experience do, indeed, matter, just like everyone elses do and I wish you a full recovery at the end of your treatment (hug)
I am fortunate that I do not have children at home, my choices could have been different if I had or I had been going out to work, but I am able to take life at my own pace and I am fortunate to be able to do that. HRT is not for me.
Thank you for allowing me to explore my original question though because I was wondering if pursuing quality of life had inadvertently led to my cousin's current illness. We will never know and, thankfully it was caught quickly - grade 1 stage 1.
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HRT at an 'early' age is replacing oestrogen that our bodies should be making ;) ……. what does your cousin feel about it?