Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: skkb on April 07, 2015, 12:07:38 PM
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I haven't been on this site for quite awhile, just thought I would report what is happening in that after 12 years of HRT once again the doctor scared me enough to try and come off it for good. I know that HRT doesn't get you through the menopause and I weaned myself off it slowly expecting some symptoms to return but not with the vengeance they have. It's just so sad that I find myself back to square one, approaching 65 years of age, i'm starting the menopause at 52. Beginning to feel at my wits end again with hot flushes and sleepless nights. So what now, I really do despair. If I developed breast cancer now no one would know if it was because of the HRT or whether I would have got it anyway and again I'm back to rubbish quality of life. My daughter says I should go back on the HRT sure if the doctor would allow it or whether I just persevere and hope that the symptoms will subside. Totally exhausted.
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How long have you been off it now? 'They' say it takes 3-6 months off it for symptoms to subside.
Bramble
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I was going to ask the same. I have tried twice to come off it and both times went back on after a year without. I felt that a year was long enough to put up with the return of all of the symptoms! I am not 61 and on a half dose HRT but it's not enough.
Not sure what to advise skkb if you have been off it for quite a while. There is the alternative medications though for hot flushes. Dixarit which is a blood pressure medication and low dose anti depressants although they obviously don't address the other symptoms of menopause.
Taz x
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Sorry to hear this skkb. I remember when you said you either took 2 or 3 tabs a week or else made your patch last - thinking it sounded like a good way to come off!
Sadly as others have said - some of us will continue to experience symptoms well into post-menopause, while others get flushes mainly during the menopausal transition and they peter out afterwards. The trouble is you don't know if you are going to be one of those unless you don't take HRT - and if you turn out to be the former it will be too late. Sounds like you are one who would have carried on having flushes anyway - but I can see the reasoning behind waiting 3-6 months to see if they subside.
One thing is certain though that oestrogen levels will fall.
HRT does get you through the menopause though - in that you ride through the hormonal fluctuations of the menopausal transition - but of course oestrogen deficiency is for ever, so post-menopause is for ever - is that what you meant?
I agree re breast cancer too -again - you can't do the experiment on yourself, so best to make a decision (to take or not to take HRT) and then not regret it!
You have my sympathies too because sooner or later most of us in our 60's still taking HRT will reach this point - myself - I can't go on having a bleed for ever and taking progesterone all the time is a no-no - I don't want to be permanently sedated/more tired than I already am!
If you haven't stopped it long ago a specialist might let you re-start but of course the longer you leave it the more likely you would be considered the same risk as a first time user???
Hurdity x
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Stellajane,
Actually there are many physicians who feel that the very best thing you can do is get on HRT and still on it indefinitely. One of those is an endocrinologist from California by the name of Diana Schwarzbein. She does a lot of lecturing and has written many books on the subject. She feels that when our minor hormone system goes belly up (our estrogen, testosterone and progesterone) then other hormone systems in the body fail. She also believes that this is the way to prevent the degenerative diseases of aging. You can google her name. She also has a DVD/Book called Menopause Power.
So not all physicians feel that HRT is a bad thing. I think this is about quality of life! If you feel better with some hormones in your body, why not? It's not like these things are from outer space. We've had estrogen, testosterone and progesterone our whole adult life. Just a thought.
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Stellajane,
Actually there are many physicians who feel that the very best thing you can do is get on HRT and still on it indefinitely. One of those is an endocrinologist from California by the name of Diana Schwarzbein. She does a lot of lecturing and has written many books on the subject. She feels that when our minor hormone system goes belly up (our estrogen, testosterone and progesterone) then other hormone systems in the body fail. She also believes that this is the way to prevent the degenerative diseases of aging. You can google her name. She also has a DVD/Book called Menopause Power.
So not all physicians feel that HRT is a bad thing. I think this is about quality of life! If you feel better with some hormones in your body, why not? It's not like these things are from outer space. We've had estrogen, testosterone and progesterone our whole adult life. Just a thought.
I've read a number of books suggesting the same stance, both for oestrogen, progesterone etc but also for our other hormones that decline, such as DHEA. If our insulin levels declined to levels that were endangering our lives we'd supplement without a second thought, unfortunately there's an overriding sense that it's natural for us to become muddled, anxious, suffer from UTIs ...and all the other problems the menopause can bring.
Dr Jonathan Wright is another doctor who suggests supplementing our hormones as long as we need to, the difference is though the principle "copy nature, no more, no less". He advocated bio identical hormones (note - this isn't witchery, they are also available from the NHS in the form of oestrogel and utrogestan amongst others), but he does recommend much smaller doses than are usually given in boxed drugs, doses that mimic our natural levels more closely (apparently). I'm trying to stick to as low a dose as possible and seem to have found a level that suits me without any side effects, I guess it's trial and error.
Which HRT were you using before you stopped? Have you considered switching to lower doses of natural hormones as an alternative? (There are apparently no studies that show that bio identical hormones induce cancer, and in fact there are reports that show they can be beneficial in some cases, particularly osteoporosis).
GG X
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I agree its all about trial and error GG and have found personally that less can be better. I particularly love my estrogel as its so tweakable.
Out of interest, how much do you use Stellajane? Do you use Utrogestan too?
GG X
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Hello skkb.
Posts like yours make me wonder why Mother Nature insists on playing this cruel trick on us, what have we done to deserve it?
I hope you can re-use HRT safely and get back to living a normal life.
Best wishes to you.
K.
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Thanks for your really interesting posts. I agree, there's a big part of me that wishes I hadn't stopped taking the HRT but now I'm off it (quite early days I guess, only stopped mid-February) I will wait a while and hope the flushes diminish. I had weaned myself off very slowly, over about 18 months, on Sandrena gel 0.5mg.....ending up using it only two days a week!! I thought "surely 1mg a week can't be doing much....bet I can do without it". Well I got that wrong, such a tiny dose was making a difference, wish I had known that two months ago. Have started taking Menopace since stopping Sandrena, it didn't do anything for me last time I used it but that was years ago, and dare I say I have noticed the "tiniest " improvement in the last couple of days. Interestingly a week ago I took a Zopiclone as was so desperate for sleep and had no night sweats, but wouldn't want to get hooked on them or a blood pressure lowering drug as my blood pressure has always been fine so wouldn't be happy playing around with that!! I will persevere and try to keep smiling, it's just such a shame that some of us suffer so badly....
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So sorry to hear you are struggling [big hug]
It is so unfair that so many women have to struggle like this. Often silently.
Can you imagine what the world would be like if, suddenly they entered their 40s, men started suffering a condition that made their willies shrink and droop. Their stomachs to swell up. Their hair to go wiry and crazy. Their faces to get acne. Their memory to pack its bags and leave. For them to feel nausea after just one pint of beer. For them to lose hand-eye co-ordination and be suddenly unable to play tennis, squash, cricket, darts, snooker, fishing? For them to burst into random tears in the middle of a conference call and to lose the ability to park a car?
There would be uproar. It would lead the 10 o' clock news. Laboratories overnight would go into over-drive frantically creating bespoke drug treatments tailored to the individual man. Because these poor men were suffering so horribly and it couldn't possibly be expected to live their lives like that ;)
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If I developed breast cancer now no one would know if it was because of the HRT or whether I would have got it anyway and again I'm back to rubbish quality of life.
I think you've pretty much summed it up for yourself with that one sentence. When a women who's been taking HRT gets breast cancer immediately the HRT gets the blame, but what gets the blame when a woman, who's never taken HRT, gets it?
In that situation it's just called "that's life", and that's really the way it is with breast cancer. You are either going to get it or you're not, and not taking HRT (if you need it) should never be factored into the decision because there is really no evidence it is going to make any difference either way.
I will always firmly believe that it's quality over quantity. I hope that over time I might be able to decrease my dose of HRT, but I doubt I will ever be able to stop it totally, and I don't have any plans on doing so, because I like my hormone supplemented life. I hated my hormone depleted life, and seriously had thoughts about ending it. I never want to go through that again.
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I reduced my dose of HRT to 1mg of oestrogen daily when I moved on to a conti regime four months ago after being on 2mg for four years with no problems. Slowly but surely the hot flushes have started to creep back. Mainly during the night so far but two or three during the day too. This is still better than the every twenty minutes I experienced at the start of menopause however I'm wondering whether it will continue like this or gradually subside. SKKB I find it disheartening that your symptoms have returned with a vengeance after such a long weaning off period. Makes it hard to know what to do for the best doesn't it? :-\
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Dana, your sentence 'never want to go through that again', I can totally relate to. Like you, after 12 years of debilitating symptoms and increasing degeneration, I also felt like ending it all. At the grand old age of 65 I have gone on a low dose of HRT and feel so much better. I am fortunate to be able to see a private gynae so have none of the problems with my GP not wanting to prescribe. Obviously, I have to pay for the HRT but it is worth every penny. And more. I seriously believe I am one of those unfortunates who would have suffered for the rest of my life. I am living again now. I am willing to take all the risks in exchange for the quality of life I have now. :)
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Another very HOT SLEEPLESS NIGHT and I'm at my wits end. It was my 65 birthday yesterday and I feel so miserable today, zero energy. Think I must go and see my GP
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Hello again skkb.
Sorry to hear that you are still suffering and I hope your GP can be helpful.
On the subject of breast cancer, a friend of a friend has recently undergone a double mastectomy and is now recovering. She is sixty, fit and active, never smoked, barely drinks and is not overweight however she was found have a different type of cancer in each breast. Oh, and she's never used any HRT. No one can offer an explanation for this, just bad luck apparently. It seems that sometimes we can't be blamed in any way for our illness!
Let us know how you get on and take care.
K.
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Hi Kathleen, yes, my sister in law had breast cancer over 20 years ago and had a mastectomy, forward 20 years and it returned in her other breast, a different type and more aggressive, so another mastectomy. She breast fed all three children, never smoked, very little alcohol and certainly carries no extra weight and never taken HRT!! I think, like you, it can often just be bad luck. I took two Kalms last night with warm milk and actually slept reasonably well, still woke at times but much better night. I'm going to up my exercise and try to drop the few extra pounds I recently put on......I'm convinced things like that help, fingers crossed !!
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skkb - you could just try some ADs - they give them on a much lower dose than for treating depression etc, but sounds like your HRt was at such a low level if it was keeping things under control then I would stick with it, I know i cant cope with sleepless nights and actually they are bad for you healthwise I imagine I will be on a low dose for rest of my life . Remember 2 glasses of wine a day is just as likely to give you breast cancer as HRT if you are susceptible and after 12 years with no sign of cancer you may well be ok.
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Thanks Winterose, seems there is just as much information for as against. Have appointment with doctor next week, will chat and then make a decision. I think we are the ginea pig generation who are mostly working things out for ourselves so far as this goes.