Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => Other Health Discussion => Topic started by: moonbeam121167 on March 11, 2015, 08:18:56 PM
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Hi
its been a while but I need some advice, I suffer badly from headaches, I am on 4mg of oral HRT, didn't really want the pills but my GP is a bit of a bully , I was on 100mg of Estradot but my levels were so low I needed to double it but he wouldn't doulbe the patch , he said the pills are fine, so he said I will top the patch up with 2mg of Zumeron (pills), I did and was not too bad , then had to go back to review it and get my repeat and he turned round and said he wasn't giving the patch, I was to have 4mg of the Zumeron, that was in January but last week my headaches got bad so I went back to my GP and he told me to try Amitrplyine again, he said start with 5mg, but they make me feel A. spaced out, B. have no get up and go, also afraid to put weight on as I have lost nearly 1 1/2 stone in the last 4 months , don't know what to do, been google search HRT and headaches and all I see is that the transdermal route is the best route to try but the GP just don't listen, he also thinks that 4mg is far too much but the consultant has said its what my body needs and I am to stay on that dose till I am about 50 to 52 yrs old, I have made an appointment for Friday with another GP but I am not sure if he help, what shall I ask for as my OH says that 2 patches is silly and to try the gel, I am so confused, I need help, these headaches feel like my head is too heavy for my neck, like pressure at the back of my head and a stiff neck, also feel abit sicky, so sorry to go on again but they are horrible headaches, everything else menopause wise are fantastic, sex is fab again, no hot flushes, I feel sort of normal again except for these blinking headaches x
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Could it be muscular?
Maybe an osteopath would help?
I had horrible headaches with some visual disturbance and nausea for 9 weeks the summer before last - they were caused by muscle problems in my neck, shoulder and back, which in turn were causing sinus problems.
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Hi
it could be, I have always suffered from headaches, they were every month, gp said they were hormonal, not sure what to do, continue on with the Amitrypline and see if it helps but scared they will make me put weight back on, or go to the GP and see if he will change the route of my HRT, I am afraid to change the HRT as I said I feel like I am back to my normal self, also now down to a size 10 which is fantastic feeling but these headaches are horrid, my poor head feels heavy, my neck aches I have a tight band of pain around my head and it sometimes so bad I feel sick, I had physio and she did say my posture is poor but the physio never helped, someone did suggest Feverfew, just need some advice x
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I know this sounds stupid but I used to suffer headaches from hell, the last one lasted 10 days. I took all sorts of painkillers, slept, ate properly but wouldn't budge. I couldn't see out one eye the pressure was so bad. I bought forehead menthol stick and after using it for a day my headache went away. Now when I feel slightest twinge or sometimes before bed I use it. Don't get me wrong some painkillers required some times but I've never had a headache as bad again. My daughters friend swears by it for migraines we used to laugh at her but it's my savour now. No harm in trying it's only menthol x
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HI I do have some , I will have to dig it out and give it a try, thanks, would you try the Amtrypline, I am only trying 5mg at the moment xx
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I have them under control at the moment so I wouldnt take amitriptyline for it. I was on it 10 yrs ago for depression and it was good at time helped me a lot. For me it is hormonal and I am on higher dose HRT and I've been fine. X
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I recently had some bad headaches. I purchased menthol and eucalyptus inhaler which you put in boiling water and breathe under a towel. It really helped to clear my head and sinuses
PN x x
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I suffer with nasty headaches behind the eyes and across the forehead. Sometimes I feel the pain is coming from deep inside my nose. I presume it is something to do with my sinuses.
The nose is meant to produce a natural secretion(mucus) that filters the stuff we breath - it make sense that if this dries out it won't be as healthy or effective as it should be. I assume bacteria and irritants like dusk can easily get lodged in our sinuses and possibly cause this pain?? Many of us seem to suffer with our noses swinging from dryness to being runny when we hit meno - I assume because the collagen is reduced so the membrane is less efficient. Inhaling steam is suppose to good. My headaches are triggered by the heating\aircon in the car, when the central heating starts in autumn or changes in air pressure depending on the weather e.g. when a thunderstorm is brewing. The smell of paint really gives me a bad headache. Since menopause my sinuses get really dry(even when on HRT) and awhile ago I bought one of those saline nasal flushes and I found this would relieve a headache. I also bought a saline spray which I used regularly for a while and again I found I didn't get headaches. I stopped using this spray and during the recent really cold weather, with needing more heat in the house and then going out in the dank and often icy weather, this seemed to trigger the headaches again. I kept getting headaches on and off over 3 weeks. Taking aspirin has caused my stomach lining to play up so now I can't take them. I've just bought some more of the saline spray to see if prevents the headaches again. I am not advocating using saline sprays - I know it's not good to use the decongestant nose sprays as these can actually make matters worse but I know saline is good to gargle with for a sore throat etc and is more natural and gentle so feel it is a safer thing to use. I did check with my GP and she thought it was a good idea.
My husband is a professional singer and some years ago, when he was having vocal problems, he went to see a top ENT doctor who just told him to inhale steam from a boiled saline solution several times a day. These old fashioned methods are sometimes the best.
Hormonal headaches tend to be slightly different - I got these when I was peri meno or just before the withdrawal bleed when on sequential HRT and they made me feel nauseas.
Moonbeam - I did find that I got more headaches when I was on a higher dose of oestrogen but if you really need such a high dose then I would definitely stick to transdermal oestrogen if I was you.
DG xxx
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Hi moonbeam
Sorry to hear you are still getting headaches and more to the point that you are still on 4 mg tablets.
If your headaches are due to the HRT then you don't need the ADs and you need to go back to what you were originally on asap - ie the patches and the tablets, or just patches or just gel. Your doctor cannot refuse this and especially as transdermal route is preferred for those that get migraines, as you know. I'm sure I posted this when you first started getting them - the info on this site:
Migraine
Migraine is often triggered by hormonal fluctuations and therefore may occur around the time of a period. Such migraine may improve at the time of the menopause. Some women find that migraine may be triggered by the daily hormone fluctuations which can occur with oral (tablet) HRT so the transdermal (patch or gel) route is usually preferred with a history of migraine
http://www.menopausematters.co.uk/atoz.php#GlossM
It's a no-brainer - one doesn't need advanced knowledge to read this and follow the advice! Surely the doc should know this?
Even if they turn out to be due to something different - this would be the first area to try especially as you didn't have them before when you were not on such a high dose of oral HRT and as you suffered hormonal headaches in the past.
Really - go back to your GP and get your prescription changed - can you get your partner to go with you?
Hurdity x
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Hurdity
would you think they are migraines, they do come and go, and I do get nausea, I am afraid to go back to the GP as they never take me seriously just palmed me off with Amitryptiine for which the last 2 days I have not taken, I feel they mask the problem and not going to take. Today the headaches are not to bad and can be ok for a week or so but then bang I get them back. My consultant said my levels are bang on and to stay on the 4mg until I am about 52ish, as I said I feel real good, sex is great, I have lost 2 dress sizes, I was not to bad on the patches and just wanted to double them but he (GP) told me to add the 2mg pill and then last time stop the patches and just use 4mg pills, think I should try another GP. I am on Randitine and try stopping them thinking it was them causing the headaches but my stomach would get bad, but can't see how it was them as I have suffered from the headaches for years and only been on Randitine for about 10 monthish, I really appreciate all your help x
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Tablets are a real no no if you suffer with headachss. Patches or gel much better.
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I did say to my GP but he refuses to listen, I have made an appointment for another GP next week , hoping he will listen to me, cause this morning I was ok but half an hour ago bang it came on and it was so bad I feel sick, my neck hurts pressure in my head, do you think its my hormones fluctuating, I dont have periods no more as I had a total Hysterectomy in Dec 2012 so would it still be the case. I use that 4 head all the time but no help, I take my HRT, 2mg pill in morning with my breaky and then 2mg about 5ish with my tea, as I thought it would even the dose out and if I take the 4mg together it hurts my stomach, I also take Ranitadine in the morning about hour before my breakfast, was going to try stopping them to see if they are causing the headaches but according to the leaflet the chances of them causing headaches are quite rare and if i dont take them my poor stomach plays up, thats the only pills I take, I have ordered a herb called Feverfew which says helps migraines to try as I really dont think the GP will change me back and I am worried the different GP will tell me I should see my normal GP as he knows my history, just at the end of my tether with these headaches, need sorting x
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I know you don't want to do this but the only way to find out if it's your HRT tabs that are causing the problems is to stop for a few weeks and see what happens.
It's kind of like an exclusion diet. Cut out everything and then after a few weeks start adding one thing back in at a time.
You will really never know until you try.
Honeybun
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Honeybun
I am stopping my Ranitidine as from today, I have made an appointment with a different GP for tomorrow and I am going to ask to change back to the patch, but not holding out any hope in changing, if he does say I can what patch size would I need, I am currently on 4mg of Zumenon pills, I am not going to stop my HRT , hoping if I can change back to the right dose of patch it will help, as I have googled HRT and headaches and it all says w0men who suffer from headaches should always use a transdermal route of HRT and go from there x
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moonbeam, many migraines are caused by food or drink. I'm very caffeine sensitive and for years I avoided it completely. Now I'm ok if I keep to a maximum of one caffeinated drink per day.
Might be a good idea to keep a food diary to see if you have a trigger you can avoid. Especially as you say you had one for about 10days. Sounds like something you are ingesting?
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Rosebud57
I wake up with terrible neckache and headache, I only drink one normal tea a day , the rest of the day I drink chamomile tea, I dont eat bread, some weeks the headaches are ok but then bang they come back bad, not sure why, they radiate from my neck up, if I put something cold on my neck it helps, they can get so bad it makes me feel sick, not really sure if they are migraines or a neck problem or hormonal, but I look on line and all they say is if you suffer from headaches use should use a transdermal route HRT, Amitriptyline makes me feel like a zombie and my GP refuses to give me Nortitrptyline as he says its banned !!!!!! but I believe its cause its too expensive just like the HRT patch, just dont know what to do, hate going to GP all the time they just don't listen to me !!!
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I did suffer terrible when my period was due and was hoping when I had my Total Hysterectomy it would go but sadly NO, do you think going back on the patches would be a start, didn't want to come off them but he told me I had to, I am on a high dose of 4mg pills and not sure what size patch I would need, I was on Estradot 100mg before the Consultant said it was too low and he said to double it but the GP said no and added 2mg of pills, the increase helped immensely and I had to go back for a review and he said I wasnt allow the patches no more and give me 4mg of Zumenon and but my headaches are bad so went back last week and he gave me the Amitrptyline again , but they make feel like a zombie so I stopped them, I am now going to see another GP and praying he will listen to me x
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Do not underestimate how hormone.fluctuations can cause.them as oral has.to bypass the.liver you are.more prone to them hence why you need to be firm and ask.for.gel or.patch
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I will cause I felt quite good today but come about 7ish my head hurts and now I feel sick, not sure though how much patch I would need as I am on 4 mg of pills, though maybe 2 x 100mg patches will be too much , anyone have any ideas x
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Hi all
went back to a different GP this morning, he gave me the patch back but said he would only give me Estradot 100mg, he said try this dose for a few months and see how I feel, worried that my levels will drop back but I will give it a go, as for the headaches he had no clue, he said it could be down to too much estrogen or it could be down to a neck problem, I did ask for Nortirptyline but he said NO, he said try the patches see if they will help if not give the Amitriptyline a go again, so here goes the patches and I will be praying they will work and I will be ok but still concerned that my estrogen levels will fall again ...
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Let us know how you get on! Did he seem 'supportive'?
Headaches can be caused by: alcohol; neck tension; dehydration; hunger; over-use of headache relief medication …...
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moonbeam121167 - the patches may well do the trick.
I did find high oestrogen gave me a headache - I tend to do better on a lowish dose - we are all different.
Could you afford to have a good professional massage? I do wonder if you've got really bad tension that has built up. As I mentioned before I find the a dry atmosphere can make my sinuses play up and give me a headache as well. Maybe keep a diary to try an isolate when the headaches happen and see if there is an environmental or physical cause. DG x
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CLKD,
I can't say he was supportive, all I am worried is the fact I was on 4mg Zumeron pills for a few months and before that Estradot 100mg and 2mg Zumeron, will the such low does bring back the all the menopause symptoms or do you think the 4mg pills may be causing the headaches as it is to high a dose but I will soon find out, I do hope and pray the 100mg patch will be ok and my headaches will ease and I wont have any menopause symptoms xx
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Hopefully the patches will help your headaches.
Sometimes we have to compromise. It may come down to a few meno symptoms and fewer headaches.
Fingers crossed for you....let us know how it goes.
Honeybun
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I was given some advice today, changing the patch every 2 days and it should then give me more, any one have any thoughts on this ??
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Sorry missed this moonbeam.
Personally I wouldn't change that often as it takes at least 12 hours for new patch to reach max absoprtion. Not sure how long it take levels to decline after removal of the old one. I change mine every 3 and a half days. I would say the only issue is not that they run out but that they may come a bit unstuck so levels decline thay way. See how you get on - perhpas change every 3 days but harder to remember.... Maybe you might need an extra 25 mcg if it;s not enough rather than change patch more often?
How are you feeling now?
Hurdity x
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Hurdity
I am feeling not too bad, as I said before feel like my old self but its these blinking headaches, the back of my neck aches, head feels heavy , my teeth and jaw aches which makes me feels sick. I was hoping changing back to the patches will help but so far NO, I am trying every 3 days, Sun, then I will change again Wednesday, so it is just about 1/2 a day less, I did say to the GP would 100mg be enough as I was on 4mg of pills but he said to try the lower dose for a few months and see!! I just wish these headaches would go, I am going to ring the dentist tomorrow and see if they can help, I stopped my Ranitadine on Saturday to see if that could be a what is causing them as I was on a 300mg once a day. I get over one big hurdle and then get this crap, its not fair >:( thanks for asking kind of you :)
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Tension can cause the symptoms you describe. How about relaxation therapy from the toes upwards - takes time though I tried on Friday ::) - or yoga/swimming ………. a course of physio might help with any neck tension too!
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I had physio, didnt help, I am going to ring the dentist 2moz , I know the patches are not going to make it go away but help and just hope the reduction wont make my meno symptoms come back x
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Are you due for a dental check? Let us know how you get on!
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Have not been to dentist in years, I am a bit terrified of them to be honest, scared big time :'(
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So make an appt. for a chat before submitting yourself to any treatment. That's what I did! Dentistry is so much improved even in the last 5 years, I know 'cos I've undergone some quite intrusive, long treatment sessions ;)
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I have made an dentist appointment for next Tuesday, what I find is every time I eat either something which needs alot of chewing I get a jaw ache and then a headache and then god I feel sick, so it could be down to my jaw or teeth but what I have noticed today I have been feeling really miserable, so this afternoon I decided to take a oral HRT , thought it may be cause I have reduce my HRT ( not by choice may I add ) xx
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Hi again
sorry to be a bother again but I asked to go back on the patches due to suffering headaches, that was 2 weeks ago but I was on 4mg Zumenon pills and the GP said I was only allowed Estradot 100mg but this last 2 days I feel real miserable, I snap at the drop of a hat, I woke up feeling a bit of a rush coming on, I know it must be cause I have reduced my dose, so I have taken a 2mg pill today, the GP said thats the highest dose patch and to give it a month but it isn't enough and I don't know what to do, I haven't enough patches to last a month if I put 2 on at a time, so confused ...
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Give a Pharmacist a ring 2-morrow and discuss? Most have private rooms these days.
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Thanks could give it a go, going to continue with the pills/patch combo for a while, I have 2 patches left so hopefully it can help, if it does I will go back to the GP and tell them I would like to use both ..
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Hi moonbeam
Sorry to hear you are suffering again. That is an odd thing for your doc to say - that 100 mcg is the highest dose patch. Yes it is, but you could for example add a 25mcg patch to the mix to increase the dose and s/he knows that :-\
Two mg is also the highest dose of oestrogen pills - but this same doc is happy to prescribe twice the dose of pills but not precsribe you an extra patch. Hmmm I wonder if it's because they are cheaper - if so this should not be a consideration and especially in your case when you have experienced problems.
Again with gel women experiment by increasing the number of pumps of estrogel in order to reach the right dose for them - although the maximum is usually 4 pumps, I know some women do go higher if it's not absorbing well.
This does need challenging - it is a pity that you feel you need to take another tablet in order to increase the dose when you have suffered such stomach and headache problems. the only way to find out if the tablet is making either of these issues worse is by completely going onto transdermal HRT and then eventually stopping the stomach tablets - and see how you feel ( especially once you've seen the dentist and sorted that out too! ;).
I would ask the doc for an increase in dose to 125 mcg ie two patches, and insist that because of your stomach problems and severe headaches you do not want to take tablet HRT - at least to try to eliminate this as a cause.
Good luck and hope you feel better soon.
Hurdity x
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I have made another appointment with the GP on Wednesday, and yes it is probably down to money the patch is I think twice the price of the pills, I didn't want to take a pill but I started to get some symptoms and felt I had not choice. So between having slight meno symptoms and tooth ache I am feeling real rubbish. I have a dentist appointment Tuesday so I am hoping I can sort the tooth out and maybe the headaches are related to the teeth, then Wednesday hopefully the GP will give me the right dose of patch, Hurdity you think 125mcg will be equivalent to 4mg pill as I have no idea of the right dose to ask for, all I know is 100mcg is not enough
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Hi all again its been nearly 2 months since I last been on here and god my headaches are awful, on 10mg of Amitryptyline for 2 months and it doesnt help, have not taken it today, I am on HRT 2mg of the pills and 100mcg of Estradot, I was taken the pills just before I go to bed but I was waking up with a bad headache so today I took it this morning and now while writing this I have a stinker of a headache, I am so fed up not sure if its the HRT thats causing the headache or something else and the GP just doesnt listen to me, if I stop the pills and just take the 100mcg patches my meno symptoms start creeping back, like bad mood swings then slight hot flushes, I really don't know what to do for the best, can't keep messing around with my HRT, also convinced the pills give me nausea thats why I took them at bedtime, I just want to cry, I wish the GP would listen to me but he doesn't, :'( please can anyone help me, give me some help and advice pleaseeeee
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Headaches are awful - where is yours situated? Could it be a trapped nerve in the cervical spine? How about contacting a physio for advice?
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I had headaches when I was on too high a dose of oestrogen when I was peri menopausal.
Moonbeam - perhaps try stopping the pills and keep to the patch again to see how you feel - you are really on a very high dose of oestrogen. HAve you tried 'Mindful Meditation' for the anxiety or perhaps something like Citalopram (SRRI) alongside the patch to see if that improves your flushes and anxiety? I have a colleague at work who is using both HRT and Citalopram and finds this combo controls all her meno symptoms. DG x
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Hi both I had physio and all she said is how hunch my head and gave me some exercises to do but they never helped, I tried stopping my pills but I started have bad mood swings and mild hot flushes, just don't know what to do, just want to feel good and not moan to you lovely ladies or go to the doctors, for which are useless , thought of trying adding a patch and half but the blinking GP wont give me enough patches, he just gave me the Amitrypyline for the headaches but they dont help my head just makes me sleepy so I am going to slowly stop them.
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This has been going on for so long for you, headaches are really awful.
I I know it's been said before but I really think you need to stop the lot and reassess things. How do you even know anymore what is causing what.
If you can tolerate some flushes for a few weeks then that's what I should do rather than adding in more and more.
At least that way you would have a clear picture of what is happening to your body.
In my mind it's really the only option.
Honeyb
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Sorry to hear you are no better moonbeam.
I absolutely could not function with headaches all the time. Can you gradually reduce the tablets over the next few weeks so that you are down to the patch and see where you are now? Also can't you get referred to a meno-specialist as it sounds like you need to see one as your doc continued to give you tablet HRT against your will and despite your stomach problems when it is contra-indicated.
I went to see a private specialist recently and she said many women who have problems with oestrogen levels actually need supplementation with testosterone - but at present this is unlicensed. I think you kept your ovaries after your op?
The medical profession has a duty to help you, and you should not have to suffer like this. Please try to get referred if only because the doctor has not been able to help you and you need specialist assessment.
Hurdity x
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My GP is as helpful as a brick, he just doesn't listen, he makes me feel like I am wasting his time, these headaches are horrible and they make me real miserable, I also feel the pills makes me feel sick, I have tried taking them at different times of the day but it makes no difference. The patch is great stick fine, but dont think it is enough on its own, as I have tried to cut the pill out and after a few days I get real bad mood swings and then the hot flushes creep back, but don't have enough patches to last if I add an additional half as they only give me enough to last a month at a time, I have seen the consultant up until last year when he told me I needed to double my dose , so I went back to my GP to sort this out but he said all I can have is the pill as I am already on the max dose the patch, I have been back to him loads of time to tell him the pills are not agreeing with me but just doesnt listen, tried a different GP and he say the same, what can I do , I am due to change the patch Thursday shall I stop the pills as from tomorrow and then come Thursday try a patch and a half, I just want to feel good, this whole thing makes me miserable, I have stopped the Amitryptyline as it never helped, I know its hormone related, they feel just like they were when I was due for a period , so sorry to go on all the time
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Does your Surgery have a Practice Nurse?