Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => Personal Experiences => Topic started by: toffeecushion on February 20, 2015, 03:16:13 PM
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Can someone please explain how I can have low estrogen and still have periods, I thought that low estrogen made your periods stop. These hormones confuse me, I have read so much online that I don't know what estrogen and progesterone do anymore :(
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Snap ! I get so confused too,sure someone more knowledgeable than me will know but I always though it was progesterone that made you have a period . :-\
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Estrogen and progesterone work together - being low, doesn't stop periods until a certain point.
Someone directed me here to remind myself what the body is doing - maybe it will help.
http://www.menopausematters.co.uk/article-perils-of-the-perimenopause.php
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I am in a similar situation and would love to know the answer. My GP said it was because I was having massive fluctuations rather than low estrogen all the time. That also explained why some of my symptoms were atypical. What's even more weird is that since hitting peri menopause, my periods have become perfectly regular - whereas previously they were incredibly irregular!
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I am not sure how low your oestrogen levels have to be before they stop building up uterus lining.
You will still have bleeding even if you do not ovulate and produce progesterone.
This is called breakthrough bleeding, where the lining builds up and sheds, as there is nothing to keep it there, and withdrawal bleeding where oestrogen drops and lining is shed.
I tried tracking my cycle for 16 months and there was a lot of this, I think, and only one definite ovulation cycle. There was also quite a lot of short cycles with early cervical mucus, followed by a slow temperature rise over a week, and a period. Confusing.
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Thank-you BrightLight - it was me wot directed you to the link :). You've saved me having to do it again -such a good article!
Toffeecushion if you read the article you will see that your oestrogen levels go up and down throughout the normal menstrual cycle, but as you get nearer to menopause they still go up and down - but overall the peaks ( ie the ovulation peak) will not be so high and maybe the dip is even lower? I expect it differs with everyone. Some women are sensitive to the lower overall level quite early on and begin to experience symptoms.
If you are still having proper periods regularly then you are ovulating and producing progesterone. As dahliagirl says some women experience light bleeding or spotting after ovulation when the oestrogen level dips (and some women experience this when oestrogen levels drop on HRT) but this isn't a proper period and will probably not occur at period time. The oestrogen breakthrough bleeding that dahliagirl refers to also is unlikely necessarily to be around period time - as it sheds irregularly.
The chances are if you are experiencing pms symptoms and your bleed is approximately at the normal time then you are still ovulating and producing progesterone - but I think in peri-menopause - especially once you;ve started missing periods - anything is possible!
Hope this hasn't confused you further!
Hurdity x
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Thanks, that sort of explains it. My progesterone levels are still in the normal range but my estrogen level ranges from 1.6 pg / ml to 3.2 pg / ml, which I believe is low.
I wonder if the breakthough bleed would give me my usual pre period symptoms as this month my period took me by surprise. It was earlier than normal and my boobs were not sore, the bleeding seems different to.
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toffeecushion I did a search for saliva test as I just had one (I know they are not always reliable) but I wanted a vague idea - whether your estrogen is low or not depends on the range of the lab that did the test. Do you have the range?
The lab I used lists the ranges for follicular phase, mid cycle peak, luteal phase and post menopause and it ranges from 0.76 pg/ml to 5.20 pg/ml at the mid cycle peak. The range within each part of the cycle is fairly wide though, for example my lab says mid-cycle peak ranges from 1.23 pg/ml to 5.20 pg/ml
For a month of testing did they show you which levels were out of range at what point in the cycle?
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Day of Cycle Average My Oestradiol Results
3 2 - 5 pg/ml 1.70
5 2 - 5 pg/ml 1.80
8 2 - 5 pg/ml 1.60
11 2 - 5 pg/ml 1.90
12 2 - 5 pg/ml 2.10
14 2 - 5 pg/ml 2.50
16 5 - 14 pg/ml 3.20
18 2 - 7 pg/ml 2.00
20 4 - 7 pg/ml 1.90
23 4 - 7 pg/ml 1.90
26 4 - 7 pg/ml 1.80
28 2 - 5 pg/ml 1.80
These were my results. What were yours. Who did you use?
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Day of Cycle Average My Oestradiol Results
3 2 - 5 pg/ml 1.70
5 2 - 5 pg/ml 1.80
8 2 - 5 pg/ml 1.60
11 2 - 5 pg/ml 1.90
12 2 - 5 pg/ml 2.10
14 2 - 5 pg/ml 2.50
16 5 - 14 pg/ml 3.20
18 2 - 7 pg/ml 2.00
20 4 - 7 pg/ml 1.90
23 4 - 7 pg/ml 1.90
26 4 - 7 pg/ml 1.80
28 2 - 5 pg/ml 1.80
These were my results. What were yours. Who did you use?
Ladies,
Do oestrogen level results differ ?
All those years ago when they tested mine doc said an average woman who still ovulates would be @700 + but mine were 100 and something
Those figures are way of decimal point ones you are talking about
Xx
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Just a quick reply
First - salivary tests bear no relation to actual oestrogen levels so not really helpful in this respect.
Second the results of the tests below from toffee are in pg/ml and in UK they are usually pmol/l on NHS ( well mine always have been - someone else may have different results?) which are approx 3 x the pg/ml figure. It's vital to know the untis of measurement of any such tests because of this difference.
Annie - if that is pmol/l that is a very low result but of course depends on when in cycle it was taken.
Scroll down in this link to see the ref range in pg/ml and pmol/l - looks like a reputable source.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estradiol
This forum software won't let me cut and paste a table as formatting is lost!!
Hurdity x :)
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Hurdity
That was my result within a year of my hysterectomy aged 32
I had the sudden onset of symptoms but in those days I had no info on why, so saw my gp
She guessed they'd be low because of my description of symptoms and that's when she said ovaries had prob gone into shock, within a week/10 days if starting 1mg oestrogen I felt on top of the world again but within a month or 2 I'd sunk back, so she upped it to 2mg and from there on to 45 years old I'd never looked back then life just went downhill again
I know I still ovulated probably just not as often and last night a thought occurred to me. When I had my mammo in oct I remember having sore breasts and thought great timing ... Not
But since then I've not had it so guessing oct was my last ovulation
Xx
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I know the results are unreliable but I have suffered badly with anxiety and agoraphobia over the years and so many of the symptoms I have now are similar. I just don't know if my anxiety is back or it is perimenopause. I am desperate to find a link between my hormones and my symptoms.
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Toffee cushion
I have been lucky before all this as in I've only been shy and not confident
But throughout this horrible journey I have developed anxiety and only feel right
When at home. Although I still get anxiety attacks in the home, I'm not sure whether it's because of my light headedness and terrible almost constant palpitations but it's happening. When I looked up menopause anxiety is on almost every link
Xx
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Toffeecushion. It does look like you estrogen is low for the range your lab used and during the cycle it didn't peak in the middle. I'm not sure I can mention the name of the lab I used but its a big one.
Its my understanding that you cannot compare saliva tests with blood serum, the ranges are different, even if you convert the Pg/ml to pmmol/l the results are not comparible to blood levels.
That's why using the range from the lab is all you have to guide you in an interpretation. I think if you are at the right age you can assume hormones have a part to play in how you are feeling x
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Brightlight - did you have similar results? Maybe you could pm me the name of the lab you used as I would like to get it done again in 6 months, just to compare.
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Before reading Brightlight's response, I was about to say that I didn't think you could compare blood and saliva levels? Mine, like Hurdity's, were blood levels, measured in pmol which seems to be the NHS standard (?). I was told that my reading of 40, on day 5 of my period, was just below the lower level of tolerance - which seems to be in line with Hurdity's link.
I have been thinking a lot recently about the symptoms of both high and low estrogen levels. One of the reasons I moved from HRT to Qlaira was that I felt I was having fluctuations, so at times, I was having too much estrogen (which caused, I thought, a jittery feeling and nausea/headaches). Now I have been on Qlaira for 5 weeks - which has a much higher level of estorgen, albeit a HRT style estrogen - those symptoms have totally disappeared. The biggest difference is the psychological one (still getting weird tingling occasionally). The lesson I've learned? That in our 40s, it appears, some of us do need (and can tolerate) a much higher level of estrogen than someone 10 or 20 years older. It was the anxiety stopping me from 'risking it'. Catch 22!
The added benefit of Qlaira is that GPs who won't prescribe HRT for peri penopausal women seem to still prescribe this as it's classified as a contraceptive, albeit a low dose, 4 phase, more unusual one.
B x
NB GPs are aware that Qlaira is more expensive than most other pills so sometimes won't mention it. However, if they will prescribe it, it's free.