Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: GypsyRoseLee on February 12, 2015, 12:11:56 PM
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Well another month has passed, and I am no nearer getting a revised prescription for HRT from my consultant. I have left 3 messages and actually written to her personally c/o the menopause clinic. But I have heard nothing back as yet :-\
For those who don't know, I have been suffering with cyclical anxiety and depression linked to my menstrual cycle for over a year and it's really nasty. I get a couple of weeks where I feel great then I start getting random anxiety and really low mood dips and feelings of impending doom :'(
My consultant offered me oestrogen patches with separate progesterone feedback, which I initially turned down (I was stupid, I know). Then I changed my mind after an anxious Xmas but had to see a locum at the clinic as my consultant was ill. The locum was useless and prescribed me Evorel Conti which my consultant had specifically advised against taking as I don't tolerate progesterone well.
But my symptoms have just gone completely topsey turvy. For the second month in a row I have felt very anxious with feelings of doom and dread 'when I'm ovulating'. This is so abnormal as ovulation is always my best time of the month. But for the second ovulation in a row I have just suffered two horribly anxious days and felt exhausted and sleepy. Woke up today feeling fine again with lots of energy.
I don't know what is happening with my body? I just don't. I'm so sick to death of this roller coaster. Do any of you clever ladies know why my symptoms have switched so dramatically? Why is ovulation suddenly making me feel so awful?
When I ovulated last month it was exactly the same, the anxiety and the exhaustion. Then it passed. Then I had a really bad mood dip on Day 21 of my cycle and I thought 'Oh here we go, my PMS on steroids has arrived' except it didn't. Within 24 hours the dip passed and then I felt GREAT. And carried on feeling great right up to when my period started and beyond and I carried on feeling great until I ovulated this month.
I have an appointment to see my GP next week to see if he can prescribe me HRT in the interim as my next appointment with my consultant isn't until May.
It seems a shame to take HRT when I only suffer with these symptoms on certain days of the month but my 'bad' days are just so nasty and I am conscious that I will never get these 'bad' days back. I just endure them and pray for the day to end. And even when I am having a 'good' day at the back of my mind I am dreading the next 'bad' day. And I can't really look forward to anything because I have no guarantee of how I will feel on that day.
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Hi GypsyRoseLee
Sorry to hear you are still feeling rough.
As you know during peri-menopause your hormones begin to fluctuate wildly and sometimes unpredictably and to more extreme levels than when cycling normally and it is likely that this is what is giving rise to your symptoms.
Normally in the menstrual cycle there is a peak in oestrogen just before ovualtion and then it falls - now this presumably can happen rapidly in some women. It generally does rise again before falling just before the bleed but I imagine the exact profile will vary slightly amongst different women and also depending on the stage you are at re menopause. If you google "Hormone levels during menstrual cycle" and look at the images - you will see some of these different graphs.
The dip in mood as I think we've discussed will be due either to rapid fall in oestrogen, rise in progesterone ( if you are sensitive to this) and additional pms (tension, irritability, anxiety) as it drops rapidly and as you body re-adjusts to the physiological changes.
Sorry this doesn't help you, and you won't be able to measure what happens - but your symptoms
tell you approximately what's happening to your hormones, especially in your case where you have already identified how you feel at the different stages of your normal cycle.
I hope you are able to start an appropriate HRT that will help even out your moods :)
Hurdity x
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Thank you Hurdity :)
Honestly I get so sick of myself talking about the same things each time. But I like things very orderly and organised and it just stresses me so much that my body is behaving so erratically. What you have written about oestrogen dropping suddenly after ovulation then rising slightly before dipping again as your period starts makes perfect sense and ties in with what has happened these last two months. Except I had the dip on Day 21 then started feeling great again on Day 22 and carried on feeling great until my period started on Day 25.
But even my period was odd. I 'thought' I had started on Day 25. But really it was just spotting. Then nothing for a whole 24 hours, then a heavier bleed which lasted 5 days. A much longer period than I have experienced recently.
If I could wear some sort of clever monitor which would explain to me precisely what was happening in my body and why on a daily basis I would feel so much better and able to cope. If it could produce little messages which explained 'This afternoon GypsyRoseLee your oestrogen is dropping very quickly so be prepared for anxiety by this evening' or 'You are currently experiencing anxiety because of higher progesterone, GypsyRoseLee, but this will start to disappear by lunchtime and you can then look forward to 5 days of optimism and stable mood levels'
Such a shame there isn't such a gadget ::)
On another topic, when I see my GP next week I intend to ask for an oestrogen patch regime with a separate bio identical progesterone feedback. Do you know how long you have to take the progesterone feedback for each month?
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Hi GypsyRoseLee
love the name by the way but I guess we're both related to "tea" in our names :D
In terms of the earlier discussions a few of us said to proceed with the patches.
I know your saying that you think the issue is prog related but trying the patches as you have them might balance things out and get rid of the dips?
Seems a shame to be waiting this length of time for a response.
Can you phone them direct and ask for head of dept?
:-*
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Hello peegeetip :)
The problem is they only have the menopause clinic once a week. Whenever you ring you just get given the run around by various receptionists and secretaries, and it's clear that the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing.
This is why I am seeing my GP next week. I have a lot of faith in him as he was the only GP to twig that my symptoms were cyclical and didn't think I should just be fobbed off with a script for ADs as did the other two female GPs at my surgery.
I am hoping that he will agree to trial me on some oestrogen patches/progesterone just in the interim before my next consultant appointment in May. I don't feel I have anything to lose by at least trying it.
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My anxiety has changed also. For some reason I have been really badly anxious on day 12 and 20 this month. I am expecting the results of a 12 day saliva test any day and hope that might explain things.
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Hello Toffee
If your anxiety was really bad on Day 12 and Day 20 that could correspond with what Hurdity said about oestrogen levels suddenly dropping at ovulation and then just before your period starts?
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I too am noticing the odd pattern of symptoms you describe. Like you, it's the lack of predictability which I find most difficult. Feel like I have no control in my life these days. Regarding your question about progesterone, most people in peri take 200mg daily for days 15 to 26 or thereabouts. That said, I am wanting to switch to 100mg for days 1 to 26 as I dislike how I feel when I have a sudden dip at the end of the month. X
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Hello Toffee
If your anxiety was really bad on Day 12 and Day 20 that could correspond with what Hurdity said about oestrogen levels suddenly dropping at ovulation and then just before your period starts?
Yes, it was reassuring to read that.
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Hiya Briony
Hasn't the HRT helped your symptoms at all?
Because I always used to feel much better in the run up to ovulation, then feel fantastic whilst ovulating I assumed that wearing an oestrogen patch through out the month would stop these horrible mood dips? But with this weird new pattern of symptoms I don't know now whether I am now reacting to dips in oestrogen or dips in progesterone?
It is the inconsistency of symptoms which is the killer for me. My husband and I are hoping to go to the Caribbean in 2 months but I can't look forward to it because I have no idea of how I will be feeling at the time. I might feel my normal happy self, or I might feel riddled with anxiety and having to paint a smile on my face the whole time :(
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Hi GypsyRoseLee
I am 44 and have recently stopped having periods for the first time and FSH levels show I am menopausal. What you describe is very similar to how I was feeling last year but I didn't quite get to grips with it being hormonal as GP's kept saying it wasn't (sound familiar?). I did know things came and went and they weren't all that predictable with pre or post ovulation, they were random. I too wished there was a gadget to monitor the mayhem.
Had I known then what I know now, I would definately have used some nutritional support. I don't know how you feel about that but I am putting it out there as an option if you choose not to try the HRT - either route should help smooth out the fluctuations. It might help while you move through this.
I would avoid the strong plant estrogens like Maca, Ashwagandha, Cohosh or even Soy and maybe add some of these gentle hormonal tonics - you can get many of them in herbal tea combinations:
Alfalfa and licorice.
Passionflower
Sage
Hops
Taking extra Omega 3 and flaxseed (seeded bread) might help as well.
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Thank you for replying BrightLight
For the past few months, every day I have been taking a Menopause tablet, a double strength Promensil with Red Clover tablet, a high strength calcium tablet and a very high dosage vitamin D3 tablet.
So I think all my vitamin supplement levels should be excellent by now. I also eat very little sugar or white carbohydrates.
To be honest I feel so dreadful on my 'bad' days that I really don't think anything gentle or subtle is going to help me through it. When you can barely bring yourself to even smile at your own child because you feel so wretched and hopeless inside, then you need something a lot more heavy hitting than a herbal tea, I'm afraid.
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Point taken and yes, there comes a tipping point where all the basics of nutrition, excercise etc don't touch things like the anxiety. Disconcerting in itself. Hope you find relief next week after GP visit
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GypysyRoseLee, I feel for you so, so much.
I seem to be having a similar experience to you, insofar as I can have days where the horrors are a dim and distant memory and I feel perfectly like the old me...but then I have days like the last couple when I feel absolutely bloody awful.
I can't even tell you in what way I feel awful - just that I do. It might actually be a relief if I could cry on such days, but I can't seem to.
No words of wisdom - like you, I've been taking a variety of vitamins and supplements, but right now, I'm pinning everything on seeing a specialist next month and hopefully trying HRT.
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Gypsyroselee
I felt like that last year, and I know what you mean by trying to smile at your own child, dreading feeling. Well I tried everything and then screamed at my GP to give me HRT after refusing it! As you'll see from my thread look how far I've come it worked! Oh I would have taken anything at the time to get out of the nightmare. Hope you get sorted soon x
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Hi Honor
The more I read your posts, the more I identify with you. Our psychological symptoms just sound so similar.
I agree it's hard to accurately describe what the 'bad' days feel like. All I know is that I feel utterly wretched and hopeless inside. I am incapable of feeling any pleasure in ANYTHING. I feel jittery and lacking any sense of well-being or contentment. My smile is completely fake and I have to force interest in those around me, even my own children and husband. Trying to maintain 'normal' social interactions feels almost mentally painful, like it leaves me feeling emotionally bruised inside. Even faking the slightest bit of levity leaves me feeling drained.
The thought of just quietly relaxing with a book, or taking an afternoon nap feels completely alien and actually fills me with dread because I feel so agitated inside. The very closest analogy I can use is this. Back in my 20s I had a nasty breast cancer scare. I found a lump, my GP and consultant were suspicious. Naturally I was terrified and worried sick and had to wait 10 days for the results of the biopsy. The mental Hell I went through during those 10 days is EXACTLY how I feel on my 'bad' days now.
And if that wasn't horrible enough I suddenly develop ridiculous anxieties or 'dreads' as I call them i.e. 'dreading' it getting dark outside (not great when it's January & February) and 'dreading' being on my own. So I end up hopelessly trailing my husband and children around the house and feeling panicky at going to bed alone.
And then it all goes. And for the next week or two I feel perfectly normal, just like my usual self and I can barely remember how wretched I felt just 24 hours earlier.
At the start of this week I was 'bad' and had been 'bad' for 3 days (hormones dramatically dipping after ovulation). I had to call my Mum to come over and keep me company because I was 'dreading' being alone. I couldn't relax and kept getting an awful sinking sensation inside. My husband came home and announced we might be flying to the Caribbean in 6 weeks and it just filled me with panic and further dread. I went and cried in our bedroom and had to take 10mg of diazepam.
However, yesterday I woke up feeling 'normal' again. Relaxed and contented with my life and excited at the thought of the Caribbean trip. Today I enjoyed a peaceful snooze on the sofa when my husband took our DCs out for the afternoon. I feel like 'me' before all this horrible hormonal trouble started.
Sorry for the essay but it's really helped to write it down.
I am keeping everything crossed that your consultant can help you Honor :)
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Thank you Millykin
Reading your recent posts has really given me hope. On my 'bad' days I would sell my soul for it to just stop and go away. It's those horrible feelings of dread & doom which cripple me. I would far prefer to have a hot flush, I really would.
Obviously the HRT has really worked for you, but can I ask, do you still get any mood dips at all linked to your cycle? And, I can't remember if you still have periods or not, sorry.
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My periods were every 6 months pre HRT. I started Femoston 1/10 in April first 3 months had a bleed no dips, next 2 months no bleed, no dips, a bleed , no dips, then I had urine infection between Xmas and new year so few courses of ABs. I think they upset HRT as I had a bleed and all the horrendous feeling came back for few days, I thought I was back to square one. It all settled again. I had a review last week and because I was not really bleeding we decided to up dose. So I'll see what happens if I take a bleed see how it goes. X
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That sounds promising Millykin. Unlike you though I still have a bleed every month albeit usually very light nowadays.
But I very much like the sound of 'no dips'. That's all I'm aiming for really. Just the security of knowing that there's a very good chance that I can look forward to something in 3 days, or 3 weeks time without the fear I might be 'dipping' on that day.
I think when you have experienced really bad and sudden 'dips' in mood it can really knock your self confidence, so that even on 'good' days you are anxious of the when the next 'dip' will come. How you described feeling at your daughter's birthday meal last year really resonated with me. At my daughter's birthday meal almost nearly a year ago I felt dreadful too. Just managed a few mouthfuls of food and a sip of water and hid in the loos for 10 minutes holding my head in my hands because I felt so wretched.
I would take 100 hot flushes, anytime, over feeling so desolate and despairing on what should have been a happy occasion.