Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: jedigirl on January 15, 2015, 09:43:11 AM
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Does anyone else feel better on the progesterone stage of their HRT? Am I unusual in this? Every month a day or two after my period (which are now very light) I feel terrible.
This is always the stage where i take estrogen only and happened also before i started HRT suggesting that my body is low on progesterone?
I then feel so anxious for a good 10 days, nauseous for about 8 days and this month had a rash on my face that has only just gone when i moved back onto progesterone three days ago.
I'm starting to dread the estrogen stage of my cycle but not sure what to do about it. I've moved onto Femoston 1/10 from 2/10 to see if less estrogen helps but do i need more progesterone. My docs are not keen on measuring hormone levels as they say they're not accurate so guess I'm figuring this one out myself.
Can I take progesterone only tablets if I'm still peri?
Any advice appreciated :-\
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Measuring will guess what "measure" your actual levels. ???
The docs are just plain wrong about this >:(
You have some imbalance so having a look at your bloods at least twice once in mid est part and one in the midst of est+prog should give your doc a good idea on what your levels are.
The truth of the matter is cost and whether they can be bothered imho.
If they get results then will they even be able to interpret them ::)
They would have to look at wider things in your blood too as some symptoms can be down to low vits and mins too.
All your doing swapping from medium to low dose femoston is letting your doc guess at whats actually wrong!
You could be introducing new issues and symptoms associated with lowered estrogen that will further confuse your situation.
I'd say get back to doc and say that you want blood tests like I describe at the very minimum.
:-*
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thanks peegeetip
I decided to go onto lower dose myself as fairly sure I have an estrogen/progesterone imbalance and think the extra estrogen in 2/10 is making things worse. I certainly didn't have a facial rash on 1/10.
I will try again at gps re hormone test. Already had every other test under the sun. Vitamins , thyroid etc all fine.
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You can certainly use progesterone only during perimenopause if you feel better on this regime jedigirl
http://www.ourbodiesourselves.org/2012/05/progesterone-alone-for-hot-flashes-and-night-sweats/
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Hi jedigirl
You're not the first women to report feeling better with the progesterone phase of this HRT type - Femoston has a progesterone that is apparently close to our own natural hormones so maybe that brings a positive effect??!! After all it's the drop in progesterone in our natural cycle that tends to give the PMT type symptoms which is possibly what you are experiencing?
I am using Utrogestan at the moment which is bio identical and have to say I'm feeling quite good on it.
I assume you are still peri menopausal? If you are over 55-56 then you could probably move to the continuous version of Femoston to get the benefits all month?
silverlady - I don't think you can get the progesterone(Dydrogesterone) in Femoston on it's own - there are only two artificial progesterones for HRT use alongside oestrogen available apart from Utrogeston (bio identical). I also believe there can be issues around the uterus becoming too thin without oestrogen during the menopause - progesterone only treatment tends to be for women needing contraception or having excessive bleeding.
It's great shame that Dydrogesterone isn't available on it's own as it could be a good alternative alongside oestrogen patches or gel as this progesterone seems to suit so many women.
DG x
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dancing girl thanks, it certainly seems to be the drop in progesterone that affects me so badly. I'm 45 and perimenopause so presumably conti would be no good for me? Am wondeing if a progesterone cream as well as my Femoston would top up my levels and keep my estrogen levels okay too? Confused!! ::)
silver lady thanks, interesting though the article seems to refer to post meno women "The researchers also note that their population were postmenopausal, having not menstruated for 1-10 years, so their findings are not applicable to women transitioning into menopause."
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Jedigirl if you google you will find a lot of info about Progesterone and its role during the perimenopause phase. Its the lowering of this hormone due too spasmodic ovulation that can cause some women not to feel so well. There are loads of books written about it too.
I was going to suggest Natural Progesterone Cream but am cautious about doing so. It has its part during perimenopause used alone ( not along HRT) and some women swear by it. It can help, many women become estrogen domimant before it too starts to drop too.
I would speak to your GP and explain to him what you have said here he/she maybe able to come up with something you can take.
My sister took progesterone/progestin (not sure which) when she was in the perimenopause and did very well on it, she is postmenopause now and has never taken combined HRT and is fine.
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Dancing girl not sure why the lining becoming too thin is a problem, post menopause this is what happens anyway if you are not on HRT.
If you have had a hysterectomy you don't have uteruses for the lining to get too thin either, this doesn't cause a problem for women.
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Last month which was a 'bad' month for me, I experienced sudden, very nasty anxiety and low mood just a couple of days after my period finished, too. It was days 8-11 of my cycle. Very unexpected, as this is usually my 'good' phase of the month.
It then went as quickly as it came, literally in the space of an hour :-\
Years ago I tried natural progesterone cream for my PMS. It was expensive, and didn't seem to make any difference.
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GypsyRoseLee, yes my anxiety is very much on and off like that, though this month seems to be harder to shake off. This feels more like existing than living. :-\
silverlady, will certainly look into this. I have a docs appointment next week so will mention it.
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While I didn't suffer the way you seem to be I definitely felt better on the progesterone part of the pack when I was on the Femoston 1/10. I'm older than you though and my lovely nurse agreed to move me onto the Femoston conti late last year so I now get it every day and it suits me just fine. I think there are some ladies that do fare better on the prog part but we're a rare breed ;)
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greyhoundgal, thank you, are you post or perimenopause? Can you take conti if yr peri?
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Jedigirl
I'm taking femoston 1/10 the same as you. I can say i feel loads better on the prog part. I have just noticed this over the last couple of months. I was going to try and talk my GP into giving me Femoston Conti 1/5 but i don't think she will give me it as I'm 44. In saying that my old GP who has just retired and put me on Femoston, had mentioned when i said i wasn't getting periods that i could get 2/10 if i felt i needed more or even could move me to 1/5, at the time i never knew 1/5 was conti i think she did though as she was very clued up and laid back about HRT and always advised best. Been on HRT since April .Dont often take a period but when i do i suffer.
Starting prog part tomorrow so looking forward to the pick me up!
x
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Hi Millykin, you and i seem to be similar in our stories.
I've just moved back down to 1/10 from 2/10 as felt like the estrogen was too much for me, i felt like i was charged and had rashes and kept needing the loo! It was though my body was trying to get rid of estrogen.
I seem unusual to alot of women on here in that i feel better on progesterone.
Also I cant keep weight on which others seem to say the opposite. I feel so unattractive since i lost my boobs and bum!
I'd be interested to know if we are able to go onto Femoston conti although I do still have periods( very slight) so don't know the implications of that. When i was on Femoston 1/10 before i missed my period.
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Hi Jedigirl
for 2 yrs i was getting a period every 6 months, so i mentioned to GP who done tests and along with flushes confirmed peri. I started on Elleste Duet but the prog in that didn't agree i was all over the place. Then another Gp told me to try Femoston 1/10 and first 3 months took a bleed all fine then no bleed for few months so mentioned to GP and thats when she said try 2/10 or i can give you 1/5 (i didnt know that was conti at the time) i just stuck to 1/10. took a bleed last and felt bad . But as i said on prog i noticed each month was good.
I know what you mean with weight I'm fighting hard to keep it on, lost boobs, bum, sparkle to hair,skin, eyes. Feel like my skin in losing elasticity but I'm not going to stop my femoston as things are improving, but i would consider changing if allowed 1/5 conti ;D
Not due a review for 6 weeks so i run it by new GP, you can ask at your appointment
x
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Millykin, yes i notice my skin and hair same, both dry, hair thinner and lacklustre. Interesting we have same weight issue too. I wonder if this is a symptom of estrogen/progesterone imbalance?
I'm at docs next Thursday so will ask about conti Femoston though my doctors not very clued up re menopause at all. I have a womens health counsellor who i see next week, will ask her too.
Take care x
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I couldn't stand the progesterone when I was on Elleste duet horrible but Femoston is great. Is the prog in Utrogestan similar to our own?
X
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Hi Stellajane, thanks for your posts.
Would using Utrogestan in that way be okay for someone who is peri?
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You need to be post meno to use Utrogestan continuously but, as I mentioned before, if you use the oestrogen in gel or patch form it might no cause the nausea. DG x
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Thanks dancinggirl, I don't think the nausea is caused by the regime of hrt I'm on, rather the fact that I don't have enough progesterone so feel awful when it drops even more on estrogen stage :(
this is confusing, do i need more progesterone, less estrogen, both?
sorry if i'm not making sense, not feeling too positive today, going for a walk to try and sort myself a bit x :)
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I am another one who prefers the progesterone phase . I also think my nausea is worse when my estrogen is dropping. What I hate is the mental drop when my body realises the progesterone has been stopped (usually end of period time) when I get PMT symptoms(!). My spots appear, I get tearful and just feel yuck. I am considering a swap to Qlaira as the regime has longer with progesterone and it uses the same estrogen as HRT, unlike all other pills. I considered the Mirena too, but have heard too many negative stories (especially for women who've not given birth). X
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Hi both
If you haven't tried other types of progesterone then I'd be careful, as with the more testosterone based progesterones you may find you feel very different on these. I freely admit I am out of my depth when it comes to the exact science how these hormones work but I know oestrogen is the important one in terms of controlling meno syptoms and protecting our heart and bones. Maybe you both have too little oestrogen to keep these symptoms under control?!!! I am currently taking Utrogestan with Oestrogen gel and actually I'm feeling the same with or without the Utrogestan. When I used other progesterones I definitely didn't feel so good.
I still think transdermal rather than pill oestrogen might help
Good luck. DG x
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Some interesting info about progesterone and bloodpressure (hypertention)
http://hyper.ahajournals.org/content/37/1/142.full
I think we may still need it post menopause.
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Thanks all,
am also interested in Qlaira, might start a new thread on it. There seems to be a higher dose of progesterone in it but still some estradiol.
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Hi jedigirl
No wonder you are confused! You are peri-menopausal and there is also a lot of information out there - some of it contradictory, and some of it not corroborated by scientific evidence from trials.
Did you read the article on peri-menopause on this site?
The most difficult thing is that your cycle and hormones are fluctuating and you are also taking HRT so it is difficult to determine what symptoms you are feeling are related to your own cycle and what to the HRT. Unfortunately this uncertain state of affairs will continue somewhat until your cycle weakens and your own oestrogen levels fall so that HRT can do its job.
The other thing to bear in mind is the natural menstrual cycle - we are biologically programmed to feel at our best increasingly towards the midpoint of the cycle when ovulation takes place. This is when oestrogen is "dominant". Oestrogen then decreases (apart from a bit if a blip) and progesterone increases. Some women don't feel any serious adverse effects from the progesterone increase which causes physiological changes in the body. However most women do notice the effects of the sudden decline in progesterone ( as well as the oestrogen) which together cause the main symptoms of pmt just before the period and overlapping with its start. As members on here have noted in their natural cycle - when the progesterone has gone and the oestrogen starts to rise, it is like a cloud lifting.
HRT is a crude way of reproducing this effect - without the complex interplay of all the other hormones and the balance in our endocrine system as happens naturally. It is not ideal - and especially when you are peri-menopausal and your own cycle kicks in. The "better on progesterone" effect that many women are reporting on here is a result of the normal pmt caused by progesterone withdrawal and the associated reversal of the physiological changes that occur in the last week or so of the menstrual cycle. It is not the oestrogen causing these symptoms.
My bet is that most of you who are feeling this - if you were on a longer cycle, you would soon be feeling even better on the oestrogen only phase. It is normal pmt - not caused by the absence of progesterone, but the physiological effects of the change in levels (it has been likened to withdrawal from a drug - especially with HRT).
As I said HRT does not exactly reproduce the same effects as our endogenous hormones (ie the ones we produce).
I can't say what's happening in your case and your cycle - and I don't think anyone can, but for the time being I would keep to the same dose for a while. The crucial thing is - does the Femoston 1/10 deal with your flushes and sweats? If so then it is likely to be the right dose of oestrogen for the time being, if your cycle is still strong.
I agree with Dancinggirl that you may well get fewer side effects from transdermal HRT.
Hope this helps!
Hurdity x
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I am in peri but use conti method with utrogestan. You do not have to e post meno. I have had very low progesterone since the age of 43 which caused me loads of problems even when estrogen was fine!
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Mid way through my period and feel awful - tired, nauseous, spotty, dull headache and crawling ants feeling in my shoulder. Up to now, I have been blaming the drop in progesterone (I always feel better when I am in weeks 3 and 4, not at ovulation). However, judging from what some of you have suggested, perhaps I just need to be taking more estrogen? I am so tempted to add half a patch tonight (currently on Evorel 50). Do you reckon that would be OK? I'd like to try an extended regime with 100mg of Utrogestan, though not sure what my partner would say (I take it vaginally as I always eat late!). ;)
Thanks for listening and especially for the patience of those more experienced ladies when us newbies don't understand things you've explained before. I'm sure I am guilty of this! :-\ xx
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greyhoundgal, thank you, are you post or perimenopause? Can you take conti if yr peri?
Sorry, not been on for a few days........ My nurse seemed to think that I was possibly post now and having been on sequi for a few years said it was ok for me to swap over to the conti. Still Femoston but now the 1/5 and so far it's suiting me very well.
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Thanks all,
suzyq, can i ask what problems you had that indicated you were low on progesterone and how did you have it measured? x
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Was just browsing 'low progesterone symptoms' in the light of some of the comments made in this thread, and came across this article. It's a bit long winded, but does provide a slightly different perspective. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3987489/
I'm beginning to wonder if this explains why some of us enjoy being on the progesterone phase so much?
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Hi jedigirl
I had various problems for about 3 years with vertigo (very severe) headaches and just generally feeling like I was going to pass out. After a year of intensive testing where the only thing that showed up (mri's of brain, neck, ent visits etc) was very low progesterone, I kept a diary! My symptoms were very regular and always hit at the two weeks before menstruation. My estrogen levels were always very good! Specialist prescribed progesterone and symptoms went away within a couple of months (I also had chronic anxiety!!). All went well for a couple of years til my estrogen nose-dived to 15 - consultant said you have less estrogen than a man! At that point I added in estrogen. Symptoms I had from low estrogen were different - palpitations, adrenaline rushes through my head, high blood pressure.
I had lots and lots of blood testing - for progesterone always around day 23 of my cycle (I was having a cycle then!) although later when everything became completely erratic it didn't seem to matter when tests done as I was on hrt and they were testing these levels. Even with continuous progesterone I have struggled to get these levels up to 'normal' ranges. I know many people don't think progesterone has any wide-ranging benefits but my specialist is insistent that it's all about getting the balance right between progesterone and estrogen - it makes sense to me!!
Hope this helps.
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Thanks Suziq, interesting, my progesterone levels seem to be a problem as always have a dip at the same time each month. I had months of feeling like i was going to pass out, especially when standing still and headaches and tiredness. Also my anxiety is awful first two weeks of the month. Hrt has helped the estrogen symptoms ( flushes, palpitations etc) but the progesterone ones not eased suggesting an imbalance between the two. Am starting Utrogestan for 1-25 days of the month next week so fingers crossed x
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Jedigirl do persevere with progesterone - you may well feel quite crappy for the first month but then it all just sort of settles in - well it did for me. I am only using cyclically at the moment as progesterone increases blood sugars and I am diabetic and feeling far less good without it!
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Jedigirl as suzyq says, do persevere with the utrogestan- I feel it has transformed me, however the first month was awful. Since then I've not looked back- I take it same as you day1-25 though I do take it vaginally. That said I'm not sure I will take it this way forever as it's not ideal to be honest however I'm happy to put up with the vaginal route issues for now as I feel great. Continual progesterone definitely suits me! Interestingly I had bad headaches in my 3 days off so in my gp review next week I'm going to ask him if I can take it continually without the break. (Ps I'm 43 though had prem menopause at 41) xx
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Thanks all,
am quite nervous to start tbh as hate the thought of feeling even worse and trying to hold down a job! Having said that I'm determined to have a good try, fingers crossed! x :thankyou: