Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: LAL34 on June 05, 2014, 08:20:58 AM
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Back at my desk....I was off yesterday with a migraine, mainly caused by the pain and aches in my arms, shoulders elbows and neck. I have just written my sickness self certificate and I feel so angry with the world that I just put down "Menopause"!! Two years in perimenopause (I am 44) and this was the first day off I had because of it, I was in a bad way for several months last year and have had a few months of feeling slightly better, but it is getting worse again during the last 2 months. My boss looks at me as if I am making it all up, I thought I could just say I had a stomach bug but then thought, hold on why should I!! There are millions of women my age with the same problems, why should we cover up things that are unpalatable to some, so I shouldn't have to hide it! Suffice to say ladies and gents ....I am having a bad day!!
PS - Does anyone else find that noise from people, telephones and televisions (and generally) drive them to distraction at times.
Ok moaning over, now on with the day... I do have a lot to be thankful for :)
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Hello LAL34.
I know what you mean about the menopause making you feel so angry with the world, there are times when I could throw back my head and scream. Hormones are powerful and will not be denied!
Hope your day improves.
Take care.
K.
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Hi LAL34,
I with you on the noise from surrounding stuff and people. It gets on my nerves >:( I usually end up with my earphones in and some relaxing mix on just to block everything else out!
When I was having a really bad time last year (didn't take any time off - just dragged myself from one end of the day to the other) I had a one-to-one with my male boss. I told him everything and didn't spare him any details. He wasn't surprised or shocked. :o
Turns out his wife is going through similar fun times. He arranged for me to work from home on the day I have psychology so I don't have far to drive to the appointment. What a nice man. :)
I now have a new young male boss - he seems to be just as cool with it.
Mind you - I think I shocked people last night at a charity committee meeting when they were looking to me to do yet more stuff and I said 'no'! The look on their faces when I told them exactly why was actually very funny. Made me laugh ;D
I'm with you - I'm refuse to cover up this part of my life.
<steps off soap box>
Galadriel x
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Hello and Welcome to MM LAL 34
Many of us on here can really relate to how you are feeling.
If you have been peri meno for the last couple of years why hasn't your doctor recommended HRT? Do tell us more about your symptoms - migraines and aches and pains are typical and I assume any periods you are having will be causing problems (perhaps infrequent or close together, heavy or light and prolonged?). Do you find you get really nasty headaches before a bleed?
If you have been diagnosed as peri meno then at 44 you are going through meno too early. It is very important you use HRT, if you are oestrogen deficient, until your early 50s( at least) to protect your heart and bones. Do read up all the info under the headings to the left of this screen so you are fully clued up.
If you are now having to take time off work because of meno symptoms then your life is being affected and HRT would certainly help.
The menopause is still a taboo subject for many. At times I will talk openly about it and I can see how uncomfortable people are. I find young women simply don't want to know. However, it's amazing how many women really open up when I talk about it!!!
Please don't beat yourself up about having a moan - you can always come to us for a moan, we'll understand. DG xxx
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I struggle with noise too, I especially don't like the adverts on tv so every time they come on I mute the tv x
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Anyone else find themselves becoming quieter as they get a bit further into meno. I can't be bothered with unnecessary chatter.
I used to be able to talk for my country but now I am happy with silence.
Hubby has always been quiet with me being the talker. Now we can go long periods of time saying nothing.
When my daughter moved home I found I had to make a real effort to chat as much as we used to.
I like my quiet time....Not sure what's caused it though.
Honeyb
x
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Hi and thanks for all your replies, Thanks Dancinggirl for the advice, I saw the doctor about 11 months ago and she did not offer anything apart from Amitriptyline for the joint pains. I have been considering going back as my symptoms are changing from month to month and my periods are very strange and almost non-existent at times and getting worse again. It would be good to know if they can give me something to help and reading your post makes me realise that it is worth trying. Thanks again for the replies and letting me have a bit of a moan, when no one wants to talk about it, it makes you feel a bit isolated sometimes. Take care everyone. x
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Depending on how large the firm is for whom you work, they should have an occupational health dept.
However - ask for an hour with your boss in private and give it to him/her straight - explain that whilst this isn't an illness symptoms can be debilitating. Print off the 'advice for husbands' from here ;) if appropriate. You only need to justify yourself where your symptoms may affect your work load, so being honest from the start and getting support is important. Lessens any frustration!
You cannot be sacked for any of your time off for symptoms. Make a list for your GP/Practice Nurse too!
Let us know how you get on!
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Think I must be one of the lucky ones having just explained my symptoms to a couple of people at work ie, they were both very understanding and supportive. One is female so I gave her more detail, the other male (aged 39) who I work very closely with I just said "health issue relating to being a woman of my age" couldn't bring myself to say the "M" word to him ;D Although given my main symptom is tiredness it was easier to explain to him than hot flushes or period problems!
I've never been able to cope with too much noise but don't tend to have this issue at work as no tv, radio, music etc allowed and very little chat as we're all so busy!
Hope your boss gets his head round your problems soon!
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I started a noise thread here ……… ::)
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I work in admin post within a large organisation that supports people with learning disability, so you would think it would be a supportive environment for staff as well as our service users.
I was off 10 weeks last year having a hysterectomy then very recently was off work for 5 weeks having ovaries and tubes removed then having to adjust to surgical meno at 44.
My female boss told me on more than one occasion before i had ovaries out that i could use my time in lieu i had accrued doing extra hours before my op to keep my sick level down. My immediate colleagues have been great and said no way should you do that as we are entitled to paid sick leave.
I took sick leave and now in line with company policy i have to attend formal absence meeting and could probably get a written warning for my absence as both ops were within a year of one another.
Not exactly motivating stuff! Some of your bosses and companies sound more understanding.
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Linsey - do you have a Union within the Company? I would get your Contract looked at by a Solicitor! that way you can't be bullied. You cannot be sacked for having time off, it would be 'constructive dismissal'.
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Hi lal sorry to detract from your thread. I find that I cant stand a lot of noise from tv, music etc, but cant pinpoint exactly when this started but with hindsight prob around peri meno. Think we need to tell bosses to get a life!
CLKD Thanks for your concern, honestly i dont need a union rep just yet anyway, wont be dismissed at moment. My immediate colleagues and i think its a farce and we laugh about it. But it does irk me that after many years with little or no absence bar a day once a year or so that its just your last 12 months thats taken into consideration.
Reason i had 2nd op for ovaries was i discovered i had BRCA2 mutation and it was risk reducing. I didnt want to wait until I had a clean absence slate!!!
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I think you need union involvement or at least advice from a solicitor and/or citizens advice because NO WAY is it right to get a warning for being ill!!! My advice would be to get advice fast on this before any wheels are set in motion regarding warnings etc.
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Sickness 'monitoring', applied when absence levels reach 3% within any 12 month period is standard practice in the NHS now. It doesn't make a difference if the episode is covered by a doctor's certificate. In addition to this, the time off is 'investigated' to look for 'patterns'. I was subjected to this when off with a herniated disc in my back two years running at exactly the same time of year (total coincidence by the way). I even returned to work before I should have done to try and keep my sickness levels within acceptable limits, spending up to two further weeks hobbling around the office dosed up to the eyeballs on painkillers. Major surgery, Menopause, protracted illness or simply malingering - all treated the same. It's outrageous >:(
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Sickness Monitoring seems to be the norm across most employment sectors now Morwenna. It's the actions of the time wasters and malingerers in society which have made it necessary to check up on all staff unfortunately.
Taz x
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Unfortunately this is something the Unions should be hot upon! but there is always 'constructive dismissal' to fall back on but Companies know that by then, employees are worn to a frazzle so are un-likely to go to Court.
Advice is essential - forewarned is forearmed ;) - it doesn't matter if colleagues seem sympathetic right now, if they feel their position is threatened you may find they change - it happened to me and those 3 women are no longer my friends :'( …… I never trusted anyone in the same way …….
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I get that sickness monitoring happens a lot but doesn't make it right to discipline someone for being ill, plain wrong imo :(
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CLKD thats a shame you had a bad experience, when our trust is broken its really difficult to repair and i agree it makes us wary of forming new friendships.
I think its bad for anyone to be disciplined for genuine absence reasons, but unfortunately its all the lazy ones who are absent at the drop of a hat that have spoilt it for the rest of us. This is a problem in most organisations.
Will keep you posted of the outcome, certainly wont be losing any sleep over it and wont be going the extra mile in future. Not planning to work there for much longer anyway.
Thanks for all supportive comments and useful views. X
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Yep, many employers have formal sickness absence monitoring processes nowadays. In my experience (at a previous place of work) this worked very effectively and definitely put out the message to several malingers that "we're on to you" which resulted in said employees either voluntarily leaving the organisation or improving their attendance.
I think that, if administered and delivered correctly by good HR personnel, such schemes are worthwhile. I had no worries about having to attend a formal interview having had 3 periods of sickness absence within a year (foot operation, RAI treatment to thyroid and then breast cancer treatment). All sizeable chunks of absence. The HR officer stressed that the formal interview was in no way a disciplinary matter - he was extremely supportive and sought to gain assurance from me that everything was being done by Occy Health and managers to enable my return to work and make reasonable adjustments. This, by the way, was at a place of work which didn't formally recognise unions.
If someone is a malingerer they can rightly be intimidated by having their sickness absence monitored, if someone is a conscientious employee with genuine reasons for absence (whether self- or doctor-certified) they should have no need to be concerned.
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BTW, regarding the original subject title for this thread.
Is there any reason why you should need to explain the details to your boss? You have given a reason for your sickness absence, why do you have to justify this by going into detail? It is really nobody else's business - end of!
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Are the pains and aches in your arms menopause related - I wondered whether you have a neck problem as well as all of the meno stuff going on?
Taz x
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If someone is a malingerer they can rightly be intimidated by having their sickness absence monitored, if someone is a conscientious employee with genuine reasons for absence (whether self- or doctor-certified) they should have no need to be concerned.
Unfortunately in reality, this system can be intimidating for 'conscientious employees' also, thereby adding to the stress created by the reason for absence, whatever that may be. In my experience so far, those conscientious employees among my staff that have been placed on 'sickness monitoring' are anxious not to push their percentage up by being off during the period of monitoring and have therefore struggled into work when they quite clearly should not be there. It has had limited effect on suspected malingerers who are fully aware that it is very difficult to prove whether their reason for absence was genuine or not. I think some of the responsibility should lay with GPs - in my opinion they dish out fitness to work certificates at the drop of a hat.
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Yes Morwenna - I have seen similar things at some places I've worked but the scheme was well-run and effective at the college where I used to work. I think the role of firm but fair management (which supports conscientious employees and deals effectively with those who don't pull their weight) is very important. As is the role of HR professionals administering the scheme. I had both good management and good HR professionals at this place of work - how I wish that were the case everywhere.
It's a shame when conscientious, valuable employees are intimidated by the process and over the years I too have seen people struggle to work when they really shouldn't be there. Such a shame. If everyone pulled their weight it wouldn't be necessary. In my experience, those employees who have unjustifiable time off sick are those who don't exactly bust a gut to work hard when they do actually grace their place of work with their presence.
Definitely agree about the responsibility of GPs in all this. I appreciate that they are in a tricky position but some GPs take this part of their job seriously and hand out the certificates only when clinically justified, others, frankly, are a push-over. Of course, the malingerers know with which type of GP to make the appointment!
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At my age I would go tell the Boss to stick his head in the sand, I've been poorly that should be enough. After all, he/she isn't allowed to ask if you plan to have family/your sexual orientation/if you are married ........ so 'being poorly' ought to surfice! A simple 'PMT today' might be enough ;)
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Just had absence meeting with boss and hr rep.
Outcome was written warning for being absent in the last 12 months due to hysterectomy then 10 months later having to get ovaries removed. Just a shame they dont consider the previous 11 years with only a few days absence in total.
I am really angry even though i expected it.
Rant over.!!!
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Linsey - What you describe sounds really bad.
It might be worth writing to your employers outlining the facts that you state above. Say you were so shocked at their attitude in the interview that you were unable to think clearly. You expected them to know your attendance record during the history of you time there and not have to restate it.
Also, do you have a union you can consult? Or, the CAB may have some suggestions.
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They dont take into account any details /reasons of your absence only the fact you werent at work. The union apparently worked with them, I advised i wouldnt be doing extra hours i usually do in order to complete tasks and wont be going the extra mile in future.
Prob they have done me a favour as I wont be stressing over workload in future, my new attitude is - if i can do it within my working day i will. If i cant it will have to wait. Away to look for a new job, downside is new employers will want me to declare my absence level and work would prob disclose the fact i had a written warning for it.
The joys!
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Your current employer can only give a good reference, they are not allowed to state anything negative.
They cannot sack you for being absent due to sickness. In fact if they haven't asked you why nor sought to get reports from your GP or Consultant, I would say that this falls in the realms of intimidation. I was discussing the ins and outs with DH who was a Managed and he states the Companies no longer take into account your 'good' level of attendance. However, if one is up-front about the time one requires from work due to surgical intervention, then it is not good management not to be supportive when the employee returns!
You don't have to look for another job. If you are pushed to leave then it's Constructive Dismissal. I would begin making notes as to what has been said and ask for a copy of any details written down at the recent meeting. Do you have a Nurse on site? This would make a huge difference ;)
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Another thought: there will be a procedure for management to follow - so discussion, followed by written warnings, followed by ..... this should be within the Terms and Conditions of your Contract. Do you get the feeling that they are trying to 'push you out of post' ? Remember too that no one can be made redundant unless that particular position is no longer vialbe within the Company ;) i.e. you can't be made redundant, then find someone else was interviewed and offered 'your' job!
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You say the union were involved, could you speak to them and get their advice?
Also - CLKDs comments look very helpful.
Good luck.
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Hi CLKD thanks for your input. I work for a large company with clear absence policy although it doesnt state how much absence an individual would have before they would terminate your employment. It does state it is an option to them.
I was given a first warning and if i am absent again within 12 months of todays date then it would go to the next stage of the policy.
I will be off again as I am starting process for more risk reducing surgery and as of yet i dont have an exact timescale for it. I certainly wont be waiting until my absence slate is clean again if the opportunity arises.
Let them sack me I would take it to tribunal if i need to. Done that before when a company tried to intimidate me as an 18yr old. They lost.
I would be happy if they offered to make me redundant. Take the package and go. Lol
Thanks again X
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Hi Limpy, the union were consulted when the policy was devised. Im not in a union.
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I don't think any Company is allowed to sack someone for genuine illness time off. If your Company has a 'clear absence policy' then somewhere in that Document should state the exact reasons for absence that would lead to the employee being dismissed! This is giving mixed messages.
If a person is not pulling their weight due to illness is a different situation but as the Company is aware that you have and will be taking time off, it's up to them to arrange cover for those times, it's not like it's an emergency. CAB would be my point of call or my Solicitor as I don't believe in Unions because they have so much power, however ………
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Hi Linsey, the union may have been involved in devising the policy but have they had any involvement in your specific case?
Your absences haven't been taken on a whim there was a medical reason. The union may still advise if requested, or do you want to keep away from them? They could possibly assist if it goes to tribunal. Though I would think you should win anyway, if there's any justice in the world. You'd had surgery...........
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Unfortunately, this sounds like fairly standard procedure and if you're not a member of the union obviously they can't represent you.
Your attitude sounds spot-on - don't "go the extra mile" in future. Your health is more important and if you have the opportunity for the risk-reducing surgery it sounds like a good idea to take it.
I wish you luck whether you decide to stay with this employer or not.