Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => Personal Experiences => Topic started by: CLKD on April 29, 2014, 09:26:16 AM
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Because we do! From an early age women in particular are encouraged to fit in. To care for family above getting a career. To put themselves last at the table when food was rationed.
ENOUGH! I do remember how it felt during school age, the need to fit in. The worry when Teams were picked that I would be last = unpopular :-\ - my parents were old fashioned so no mini-skirts for me, so I rolled up my skirts at the waist - anyone else do that ;D. How I worried about gym classes when girls were told to wear thick knickers but the boys could wear shorts :cuss:. How I worried when on a period about walking with a used pad to the incinerator at the other end of the toilet block, the incinerator where the Big Girls woudl lounge 'cos it was the warmest place but it meant I had to excuse myself as I deposited the pad :-[. So it does matter, being one of the crowd, it's also a survival issue from way back ............
I can't remember when I became brazen. But as the years went on, I married, moved away from the family village and then I realised that people liked me for myself, not because of my history, back in that village. As I aged I began to find myself, it took until I was 35 :o ..... now 60 I do exactly what I want, when I want, I don't shave my legs unless I want to do ;) ....... even when DH nudges me ....
When I suffered severe depression and anxiety in the 1990s I noticed that people didn't wait for me to recover. Nor did they ask DH how he was during the long years of my illness. Not once did any so-called friend pick up the phone to either of us :'( so then I went independant. Bug..r what anyone else thinks! This is about me.
Survival is selfish. But as long as my anxiety is manageable DH and I have a Life together. Sometimes I can even include others in our daily routine but I don't go out of my way to invite anyone here. Because that way I'm comfortable. That way I can do what is best for us as a couple.
Oh cuppa is ready, be back later!
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thanks for posting this clkd, as i said in another post, i feel that alot of my anxiety comes from what other people think of me, i was always considered to be quite attractive now over the last few years i have gained alot of weight of feel uncomfortable and cant wear what i want as i feel silly, and feel that others are looking at me.
I have a supportive partner and my children think that iam just fine and dandy as i cover everythng up and put on a smile but inside i feel very unhappy, so wish i could snap out of it and become more carefree, as i said before i admire your attitude and wish i could get where you are, as in frame of mind .
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I have always had a big problem with 'fitting in' and the feeling remains. I was 5ft 10' when I was 12 and was overweight so I felt like a freak. I was the only girl in the village who went to the grammar school from my group of peers so I became super freak. I had no confidence and Ive never really got over it. I don't like social situations and the need to make small talk terrifies me - I'm just no good at it. But the problem I have is my husband is very gregarious and sociable and I get constantly nagged to have people over, or host a big BBQ etc plus when we go on holidays ( which I'm not great at) he always makes 'friends' so I spend my week uncomfortable. I'm happier in my own space but he likes lots of company. You are fortunate CLKD that your DH respects your feelings as mine doesn't understand until he feels the need for solitude then the rules are different :(
As for ppl understanding illness and depression - well like you my family aren't interested and think I have the world at my feet - what have I got to be depressed about! Probably true but they obviously don't understand how depression hits you. I have chrons disease and it makes me tired, I also care for my mother and help a lot with my sisters children ( who I adore ) but never once has anyone asked me ' how are you'. Maybe I am am selfish to feel that it is a problem but if any of my family are unwell I'm the one that steps up. It's difficult to change though . I wish I was where you are CLKD and stop feelin that I'm the bad guy. Because I am always seeking approval I do too much for people - yet still don't get any thanks. Viscous circle.
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I know exactly how you feel only 5ft 2 and never weighed any more than 7 stone people were always asking if i was anorexic it really upset me and still does as i am not much bigger now, when i had a breakdown i went down to 5 and half stone and wouldn't go out at all as i thought everyone was staring at me. My OH has PTSD and can be really nasty at times not intentionally and my daughter has 2 boys with High Functioning ASD so my life at times can be really frustrating I love them all but my god they can try your patience at times.
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What an interesting post. Yes, I think most of us grow up caring what others think and yet we tend to be more judgemental of our selves than others ever will be.
A few years back I did a course with a life coach, who told me that it was was none of my business what others think. It is not about me; it is about them. If they are operating from a ' bad place', they will treat me badly no matter what I do. If they are operating from a 'good place' they will treat me well no matter what I do.
I care for people, but that does not mean I have to tolerate bad behaviour. I walk or limit my contact. It is not my job to fix people. Only they can do that. I am kind, but not weak. I treat people as I wish to be treated. I still go to that default thinking that I am being judged wanting, then that other voice butts in and tells me I'm ok. It doesn't matter. I am lovely! I tell my family I love them, when those lovely feelings well up, but i don't need it reciprocated back to me. It is as it is. I don't wish to be young again. I was unhappy. I am happy now and life feels good.
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I read a good quote which I hope doesnt sound trite or silly, it went something like this:
"Dont worry about what others are thinking about you as its surprising how little they do "
:)
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So true Winterose.
My favourite prayer.
Dear God, Show me the truth about myself, no matter how beautiful it is. Amen. (Machida Wiedenkhr)
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Thats made me smile -
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Yes Winterose that is so true but that's the thing about low self esteem - you assume ppl are talking or judging you when they are probably so not interested! If you feel good about yourself then even if they are talking about you - you don't care!
Hi Ju Ju xx
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Hi lovely you!
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How did I change: I can't remember. But I do remember that my Mum told me 'don't lead your husband a dance as your father led me' : not any support about my depression, I got a lot of 'poor 'husband' ' from her ....... he was OK he went to work and could walk away from the depressive side of me <sigh>. So now I never tell her.
I'm reading Joan Bakewell's autobiography and it's very telling as to how women were raised until the 1960s when we began being able to make choices. Not always what they wanted but they did push for changes.
When I was depressed; and when people walked away; I halved my C/mas card list ;) - overnight! I try not to have people around who are 'takers'. I try to help, if I am able to do so. But I never say yes immediately .......... whereas years ago I would jump in and offer help, often over-taxing myself :'( ... I was also raised not to 'let anyone down' so that once I had said 'yes' I would go along with it, however ill I felt :sigh: .......... now I pick up the phone if anxiety threatens to over-take me and tell the person to find someone else.
No one owes me anything. A kind word and a smile helps. But don't feel you have to give ........ unless you are able. I don't owe anyone anything ........ what you see is what you get ;). Old habits die hard so stepping in to help family becomes expected. However I don't 'do' illness so you will have to find a GP/Nurse/neighbour who does!!!
I'm out of bed, what more do they want .......... :whist:
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It's sometimes not so easy to just walk away from people who need you because it doesn't suit or makes you feel under pressure. It's what families generally do.
Women are conditioned to put children first but why bother having them if your not prepared to do that. My kids always come first. Now they are grown up they appreciate what we did when they were young.
As for what people think, I really don't care to be honest. I am what I am and if they don't like it then it's their problem not mine.
I always tried to tell my children to treat people the way they would want to be treated and that's the way I try to be too.
Honeyb
x
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Well said Honeybun :foryou:
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Lately, I give ppl exactly back what they give me - if anyone talks down I do the same, if someone is rude I do the same. I don't like this but I do it because if I am trying to be nice and giving most jump straight on my back, I call it - do this, admire me, listen to me, oh I am so important. So I go my own way now most of times not giving a toss - I also hate now to have someone in and I feel best on my own. People stress me!
It was not like this even few years ago but for some time now I observe who says what and who does what for me. Nothing. All come to take.
I had awful meno and no understanding from anyone. Plenty of gossip though, I learnt. Not one person helped. Some even gave me this nasty extra push which together with usual meno anxieties was a hell at times. No wonder I prefer to be on my own now.
I miss laughter and joyful companion though, like it was when I was very young - not free from anxieties but somehow it was nicer then, I think. Very sad.
Take care girls! ???
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...and that's why we have this lovely forum. We can be who we really are, help if we can but step away if we need to. If only real life could be just like that! I do agree though with what everyone is saying, I think as you get older you start to not care so much about what people are thinking of you - the poem "when I am an old woman I shall wear purple" springs to mind ;)
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Bright purple ;D
Honeyb
x
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with pink melted in and lilac edging ;)
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My mum always told me and still does "the more you do, the more you may" so true!
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What an interesting thread.
I use to take on too much in helping people. I couldn't say no because I thought they would think bad of me.
I've been taken advantage of by some people,who I've now dropped, because of my kindness.
I don't rush in anymore with, "Yes,that's ok I can do that" and then think about it and wish I could have said no.
I've run around for people and got no thanks.
And as for depression.i was in hospital 5 wks 10 years ago and got 2 get well cards.
One from my OH and children and one from my best friend.
Everyone knew I was in there suffering a breakdown.
If I had had an operation or broken a bone I'm sure the cards would have come then.( well I hope ;D)
I now take a step back,help where I can and stop thinking people will not like me if I don't say yes.
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Yes, the most important person to look after is yourself. If you don't, how can you help others effectively?
There is a stigma about mental health issues. Yet most people suffer in some way during their lives. I was shocked by the conditions of the hospital ward a young friend was in recently. I think it would have made me depressed if I had had to stay there. I'm not impressed with the quality of aftercare she is receiving.
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Ju Ju
I'm lucky to be able to have private medical care for my mental health.
The NHS has let me down over the years and the only way that I'm still here is because my OH got me into a private hospital and the aftercare is brilliant but I have to pay for it.
I feel for people who are not getting the care they deserve.
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That's the problem with care from cradle to the grave >:(
<wave> Dyan ;)
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When I was a young teenager in the 60s, my GP referred me to a child psychiatrist. I was told I was clinically depressed. I had symptoms that would probably be called OCD these days. I had to go every month, each time seeing someone different, each time relating my story yet again. I might be asked if I had suicidal thoughts or if I wanted to be admitted to hospital. My answer NO was never explored. I was seen in isolation from my family, as if I was the problem and not the family dynamics. I have always wondered how they thought they were helping me.
I had hoped things had changed through the years. My lovely young friend tried commit suicide. During her stay in the hospital ward, Noone talked to her about this. She was told she would not get better. No one has told her she matters, that she is wonderful, worthy and that her suicidal thoughts are just that; she does not have to follow through with action.
Having mental issues does not mean you are less worthy or that it diminishes you in any way. I have more respect for anyone who been through a struggle, be it mental health issues, alcoholism etc and found their way through. I'm sure it makes you stronger and more empathic with others.
Sorry just voicing my thoughts.
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I wish I hadn't suffered depression and anxiety though, it ruined parts of my Life :'( ……… the phobia had a hold for over 30 years :-\ …….. but I hope I have more empathy ...
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I have never met you CLKD, but I have read many of your posts recently. Empathy flows through your words. I would never wish such experience on anyone. You should be proud of yourself. I was also thinking of my husband. He has always been a good, lovely man, but tended to think that recovering from depression was a matter of pulling your socks, until he suffered from stress himself. He is now the go to person, when people need support. I understand you too have the support of a lovely man. A lot to be thankful for.
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:thankyou: I have mellowed over the years because DH switches off. I can be fiesty, reactive, nasty at times :'( ........... and was judgemental too ...... until s..t hit the fan ..........
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JuJu, just read your post with interest.
I could have been reading about myself.
I too was referred to a child psychiatrist in my teens.
I've always had OCD traits from little and it took a 5 week stay in a private hospital 10 years ago to get a diagnosis of OCD with accompanying anxiety & depression.
I had been let down by the NHS for all those years and prescribed all sorts of meds which worked for a while then the problem would rear up again.
Now I know what it is the medication helps,the CBT I had & still have is helping me to manage it.
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I dont' think OCD was realised by a lot of people, how many villages had a local 'odd' person, accepted and known and the villagers would close ranks if strangers moved in and made comments ??? …….. we had a lad who was 'strange' but we now think he had Asperger's syndrome. If you told him your date of birth he would tell you the day on which you had been born, without pausing for breath :o ……….
It may be because people have brome mobile that people are more judgemental? because it is safer to be part of a crowd but the crowd situation becomes fragmented when people move away or strangers move 'in'. Safer to live within a certain social strata ………. because each Culture has it's religions/routines/cultural customs which may seem sinister to outsiders ……….. even now my Mum will discuss with her siblings, people who they all grew up with, often going back to when they were all kids together and working their memories through the years since ::) …….. tales told and reiterated whereas when people move into an area ………. ::) it is said that in the village where Mum was raised that you had to have great grandchildren in the local School before the 'locals' would call you by your Christian name ;D ….. so we become engrained in following a certain cultural system in order to fit in :D
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Thanks Dyan. I think my healing started after ADs age 14. The fog lifted from my brain and I was able to catch up with some areas of the school curriculum, but not the sciences. Still have a blank there. I made a decision that I was going to live and enjoy life, stop trying to fight the obsessive behaviour, just work round it. I went on a holiday with blind people as a volunteer and explained to some of the other volunteers why I took so long in the bathroom. Reaction was OK and a kindly so what. What seemed enormous shrunk. Leaving home was the best thing, though I have continued to deal with the issues through my life. It has been suggested that the ADs arrested my sexual development. Who knows. Always had low libido and energy. I am proud that I have not passed on my need to be clean to my children. I have not taken ADs since early 20s and avoided medical help. I believe the ADs saved my life, so I don't regret taking them. During the last few years, I have had help from a therapist and a life coach.
CLKD, I think it is unfortunately a human trait to be suspicious and afraid of perceived differences, be it mental illness, learning difficulties, skin colour, religion, accents and so on. Hence prejudice, bullying, wars..... Talking of Asperger's syndrome, I have heard that everyone has traits be it to greater or lesser degrees! I just wish we could celebrate and focus on what people can do rather than what they can't. This is written with feeling! My severely dyslexic son, who gave up at the school that gave up on him, has just passed his final exams of his degree. I am sooooo proud and excited for him.
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I would be who I am if I could only find out who that was!! I have always been different and not fitted in - liking winter and dark days for instance and not wanting to travel anywhere with other people - but when I had some counselling some time back because I had become "fragmented" the first thing she said when I said I wanted to be like other people was "just be yourself - enjoy who you are". This leads to loneliness sometimes though - it would be nice to enjoy what others do at times and to be able to plan things with my (patient) friends.
Your story is very moving Ju Ju - well done to you. It is true that we all have some autistic and asperger traits in our make-up. It is only when these have the upper hand that problems can arise. It is difficult to teach a child with aspergers without squashing their natural personality but it is necessary to try if the child is to be able to function in the world as a social person. Lots of social skills help can make a huge difference.
Taz x
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Yes it is difficult to take it to heart that it ok to be who you are and that you are amazing, even if you understand that on an intellectual level. I was told that we are born wonderful, but life experiences get in the way and we develop our egos. In other words, what we think we are rather than the essence of who we really are. I grew up believing I wasn't up to much, not worthy of the good things in life. I am still amazed to married a wonderful man and to have brought 2 amazing children. My husband never saw what my ego thought. He saw who I really am. I suggest you ask someone who loves you to tell you why they love you and what they see in you. I can tell just from your posts, that you are a caring, loving person, Taz.
I believe you, like me, are a teacher. Or was in my case. I have worked with children with Asperger's and recently with an adult and I think the biggest problem is acceptance and understanding from the wider world. Yes, learning social skills does help, but is very difficult. It is a shame that the rest of us can't accept them as they are. The emotional stress is enormous if there is not adequate support.
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Thanks Ju Ju. I had the most amazing upbringing with parents who loved me no matter what I did. I was taught that the important thing was just to do my best - the worst thing was not to try - the best thing was just to do your best and if you didn't succeed then that wasn't important. It is true what you say about our egos.
Taz x
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How wonderful. This is what unconditional love means. I have the pleasure of seeing my little grandson grow up with parents who love him for being. No conditions. If bad behaviour occurs it is dealt with firmly, but with love.
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My Mum told me to 'do your best' …….. but I wasn't encouraged to do what I actually wanted to do or what at that time, thought I was capable of ::) ………. but I have walked other routes and met some lovely/not people …….. DH and I grew up in the same School so he had watched me from a distance :-* :-*
It does help if we can 'feel' what others feel ….. not always easy particularly when some people are different without being able to experience it. I lack an ability to listen, I 'jump in' with comments which can vary the conversation away from the original topic ……… something I am working on daily ……… :-[
People also fit in in order to survive in some instances. They then mature later or not at all. At least teachers are more aware that home situations can cause certain traits in children …….
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CLKD, listening and being truly present when you are listening is a skill that can be learnt. It is amazing how much you can recall after you have really listened to someone, taking the focus off yourself and not thinking about what you want to say. An exercise you can try if you go out is trying not to say anything about yourself, but listen and encourage others to talk. It's fun, but difficult. Most of us like to talk ourselves.
I agree we do learn behaviours, particularly when children in order to protect ourselves, but sometimes taking these behaviours into adulthood can be inappropriate and detriment to our well being.
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:thankyou:
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Why worry about what people think?
Because if they think badly of you, they treat you badly.
When a lot of people are treating you badly, life can get very difficult.
If it happens from a young age, it can mentally scar you.
Not only did I not fit in at school, I never fit in at home either.
I got the same bullying and exclusion from my siblings and parents as I did from my school peers and teachers.
It caused lots of problems, many of them I could not resolve, because I did not know they were there.
I spent years and years in denial of how badly I was treated so I could never address problems.
I didn't have any guidance in life and as a result, I feel like a child in an adults body.
Not being accepted and loved for who I am has made me feel unwelcome on the planet.
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However: :for you: here we are all one …… with similar problems and experiences.
I used to worry dreadfully :-\
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Dear Dandelion,
The biggest problem here is not what others think of you but what you think think of yourself. You are far, far harsher and judgemental of your self than anyone else. Please, please have a go at reading 'The Insideout Revolution' by Michael Neale or 'Lovability' by Robert Holden or 'Real Love' by Greg Baer. All books I have found incredibly helpful and say far more than I can.
You sound very low and battered by your life experience. But your experiences are not unique, which means you are not alone. I send you a virtual hug! Ju Ju xx
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Hi JuJu
Thanks for your message.
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I loves me I does ;)
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:yes:
I loves me too!
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When I ask DH how much he loves me, he tells me 'enough' ;D
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I loves me too.......and you and you and you.....
Let's spread the love ;)
Xx
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do something good each day for another person - like a pebble dropped into a puddle the ripples will spread ;)
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I read an article about 'paying forward' and basically doing good without expecting anything in return.....
I think even a smile counts :)
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It depends upon whom one smiles ;) ………. :D
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It feels really good to know you've helped someone.
Someone talked to me today about some problems they'd been having, and after talking to me, they decided what to do about the problem and felt better.
That felt really good for me.
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Yes, listening and being present is a wonderful skill. Often all people want is to be heard, not to be advised or 'fixed'. Most times, they find the answer within themselves. You were a good friend, dandelion. This person must have sensed how empathic you are.
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Yes, lack in empathy terrifies me sometimes after I talked to people. Smile is the other thing - so rare. I see a chip on a shoulder in most cases, often two. And quick judgement all time.
Everyone needs smile!
You are wise women. I wished I was around you!
Take care!
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Yes, listening and being present is a wonderful skill. Often all people want is to be heard, not to be advised or 'fixed'. Most times, they find the answer within themselves. You were a good friend, dandelion. This person must have sensed how empathic you are.
Thank you.
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When a stranger smiles in passing, I feel uplifted, so I try to do the same. :)