Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: PollyH on April 12, 2014, 12:20:42 PM
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Hi All
I started oestradot 50mcg 15 days ago - where's is the best place to put them? Also I was supposed to take 200mg utrogestan last night but could'nt face it as last time I tried this about two years ago I nearly passed out.
Is it possible to pierce the capsule and empty some out or brake the capsule and halve the amount of powder inside so hat I can try a lesser dose first. I am feeling bit better today and don't want yo go downhill after taking progestogen.
Does this make sense ?
PollyH
X x x x x
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What do you mean :-\ "where's the best place to put them" ......... 'take' implies that you swallow the medication ? what does it say on the packet? It isn't wise to break any capsule or pill ......... they are in measured doses to include the coating! Perhaps you should speak to a Pharmacist today!!!
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You need to take Utrogestan before you go to bed- that way, you won't notice any side effects. Dizziness and sleepiness are listed as side effects. I take mine very last thing after cleaning my teeth.
You shouldn't try to half them. If you read the leaflet it should describe what is in them- powder mixed with oil, so they will be very gooey if you cut them and you won't get an accurate 'half' because some may ooze out.
Some women use them vaginally - not licensed in UK for this but it's fine if you want to try as this is the 'norm' in France more than UK.
In any case- you can't really alter the dose like this unless you extend the number of days you take them.
If you do think that a smaller dose would help, then ask your dr because 100mgs exist, but you'd then need to work out how many days because you need more days at 100mgs than 200mgs.
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I think Polly means where to put the patch :)
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You could always use them vaginally to minimize the side effects.
As for the patch. Anywhere below the waist. Bum, thigh,hip. I use Evorel and try and keep it away from my panty line as it can stick or get wrinkled. I have been known to pull the patch off when I went to the loo. ::)
Honeyb
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Hi
With regard to using Utrogestan vaginally can you tell me which side effects it minimises please?
Thanks
Shellb
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Ask the Doc for 100mg but then as Sarah says you will have to take for longer. I take 100mg for 12 days per month, recommended dosage is actually 25days per mnth. I dont have any side effects really using them vaginally, ocassional bloating, bit of lower abdominal pain, but no dizziness and they do tend to keep me awake, whereas others say that they have the opposite effect, I guess... differen strokes for different folks... :D
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It should minimise the side effects you have had. BUT everyone is different and some people find vaginally doesn't work for them - they get other but different side effects.
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I had no dizziness or bloating but they did give me an irritable bladder but I was using them everyday. I did not want a bleed as I have not had one for years now. I gave up due to the bladder issues and went back to my combined patches.
Just shows how different we all are. Some women think they are great but I did not like utrogestan at all.
Honeyb
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I use Evorel and try and keep it away from my panty line as it can stick or get wrinkled. I have been known to pull the patch off when I went to the loo. ::)
You are not alone.
In my defence, the jeans were perhaps a bit too tight, the weather a bit warm, my need to get to the loo extreme. Managed to stick it back on, luckily it was being changed the next morning. ::)
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Hi everybody
Thank you for all your replies. I guess I will just have to take it tonight and stop being so soft.
Did you really think Clkd that I was gonna try and stick a utrogestan capsule to my bum lol!
Hi Cassie - how come you can take 100mg capsule just for 12 days, does that still give you a bleed? If this dose is too strong for me then I may try this option if the doc says it is ok.
Hi sarah2 thanks for the advice I will see how I go and keep you posted.
Have lovely evening.
PollyH
Xxxxxxx
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<phew> I didn't realise that Utrogestan are by mouth ::) ……… the type I have are pessaries ;)
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You have a different type of pessary though CLKD. Yours is not part of HRT but for VA.
Honeyb
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Oh yes I used to get a bleed on even 7 days of 100mg but 12 days was the recommended dosage as 7 was causing my lining to be a bit too thick and breakthrough bleeds.
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Hi all
I took a 200mg of utrogestan last night - didn't feel too dizzy but had ringing in my ears really strange and my other half had to get in the other bed as I was very hot and restless. Today I feel so tired can't be bothered with anything and feel like I could sleep forever and my brain is not working. Hope I will be okay for work tomorrow - will this get better as my body gets used to the utrogestan - these feelings never seem to end, just want to get back to normal. I have just had two weeks off work and can't be off again. Feel down as well - bloody progestogen.
Thanks for listening.
PollyH
Xxxxxx
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Oh dear...
did you take them on an empty stomach last thing at night?
Taking them with food ( that means you should leave at least 2 hours after you have eaten) does change how your body metabolises it and you may get more side effects.
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Hi sarah2
Yeah I took on an empty stomach - do you think I will feel better when my body gets used to it ?
PollyH
X x x x
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Hmmm- really hard to say. Sorry!
I find they make me slightly hotter at night but I was always like that during the progesterone phase of my cycle, before meno.
I do feel dizzy if I take them and don't go to bed- had that experience ONCE and nearly fell over! But then I tend to sleep reasonably well.
You could always try the 100mgs but that would be for longer- 25 days .
Women who take less than the prescribed/ normal amount tend to have access to private scans to check their lining is not getting thickened on lower doses.
I'd try to stick out the 200mgs and see how you go.
Fingers crossed!
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Thank you sarah2 for replying -hope you are ok.
I will give it a go and see how I feel tomorrow x x
PollyH x x
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Hi all
I have taken 4 utrogestan 200mg capsules and I feel so ill today - had to ring in work just couldn't go. My brain is foggy and I am so tired just want to lie down all the time. Don't know what to do now. I can't face another day like this. Had a headache as well - feel so low, don't think I can take any more of this utrogestan. I'm so confused with it all.
Any advice please. I'm taking 50mcg eostradot patch - still having few hot flushes and wonder if this is being absorbed.
Thanks
PollyH
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Oh that sounds awful :(
The other option is to use them vaginally like a pessary at night which some women find helps reduce side effects.
How did you used to feel when you were having normal cycles pre-meno?
Utrogestan is bio identical progesterone so your reaction to your own progesterone might be a guide- did you get bad PMT etc?
Failing any improvement on vaginal use then you could try 100mgs for more days, or go onto a synthetic progestogen such as Norethisterone.
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I would cut down to 100mg for 12 to 15 days per month used vaginally and see how you fare with that.
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Hi sarah2
I'm still having hot flushes - maybe the patches are not working. I might have to go back on femoston 2/10. I didn't used to have bad pmt - but I was on the pill for a long time, but as soon as I came off it I seemed to go down hill. I feel like I have had problems since I was 38 and I am now fifty and because I have been on hrt for 8 years thought I had better have patches because they are supposed to be safer.
Maybe I should try the utrogestan capsule vaginally tonight -I have no other option, won't be able to get in at the doctors till next week. Or I just don't take it and carry on with the eastradot patches for now. Think my cycle is so messed up after coming off for a short time.
Hope you are ok
Thanks for the reply -PollyH x x
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Hi cassy
Thanks for replying
I have only got the 200mg capsules and don't know whether I will be able get in at the doctors . I will have to try this dose vaginally and hope the side effects are less. My other option would be to have one every other day. Do you think that would be ok? I'm so sick of this menopause - don't know what to do for the best.
PollyH
xx
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There was a member posting about alternate-day use a while back. She felt it would be ok but for me, personally, it wouldn't work- I get early-ish bleeding even on 200mgs ( bleed usually by day 9 -10, not 2-3 days after stopping) so I am sure the bleeding would be all over the place on alternate day dose.
Try the vaginal route and see how you feel.
You might need a 75mg patch if you are still getting hot flushes- if you had an early menopause then by now your own oestrogen levels would be very low.This might also account for feeling rubbish- too much progesterone to the amount of oestrogen you are getting.
Fingers crossed for you!
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You could try the gel, it is great as you can adjust the dosage up or down as per your symptoms, so a bit more leeway to play with...
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I didn't take a utrogestan capsule last nite nor did I try it vaginally, just couldn't cope with another day like yesterday. I fee a bit better today and have had long think today and I am going to try it vaginally tonight. So I have now missed a dose, but just going to carry on until day 26. I have a doctors appointment booked for next Friday and goin to ask if I can have lower dose of utrogestan if I use it vaginally.
Do patches give a continuous dose or do they become weaker when they are due to be changed. My doctor gave me 50mcg which he said would be equivalent to 2mg tablet - but maybe I do need a higher dose now.
Thanks for the replies.
PollyH
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I don't think you need take them for 26 days if you are taking 200mgs.
My leaflet says 14 days @ 200mgs ( though my gynae is happy for me to take 10 days)- or you take 100mgs for 25 days.
If you continue with 200mgs for 26 days that is too much.
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Sorry my sentence was confusing - I meant day 15 to 26 (12 days). Glad when it's over -6 more to go!
PollyH
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Ahhhh! I see! :)
Hang on in there- not long to go!
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Hi Polly
This is really interesting, I'm experiencing exactly the same, I'm on the same dose and it's my first time using Utrogestan. I've been told to take it for 12 days but I'm only going to use it for 10, even though I forgot a dose! I don't think I can manage the full 12 days. Keep us posted on how you get on as it will be interesting to know, especially as I am the same.
Shellb
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Hi shellb
Glad I'm not the only one. I have decided to take it again tonight orally and see how I go. I have already missed a dose because it makes me feel ill. Do you use it vaginally? I'm not sure whether to try it this way I'm a bit scared too. A lot of women on here take it this way. Still got six too go - keep me posted how you are feeling. I had to stay off work this week because of it. Will report back tomorrow.
PollyH
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Hi Polly
I use it orally, like you I'm a little worried about using it vaginally as I haven't done this before. My main side effects with any progesterone are anxiety and low mood but since I have been using the Utrogestan I've felt absolutely exhausted, I take it at night too. I'm only using it for ten nights instead of twelve so roll on tonight so I can take the last one!!!
Keep posted on how your doing
Shellb
xXx
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Hi Pollyh and Shellb,
I started on hrt end of December last year and after my own research asked for Utrogestan and Oestrogel. I have only ever used the Utrogestan vaginallly after reading it was the best way with less side effects. I used 200mg for two nights and was in a progesterone induced fog! So I switched to 100mg and had no side effects whatsoever. I use two pumps of Oestrogel a day (you can use up to 4), but I do use the Utrogestan for 14 days just to be sure I get no build up in my uterus. I have to admit that I did pierce the 200mg Utrogestan with a needle and squeeze some of the oil out for a few nights before I was able to get hold of 100mg Utrogestan. I know we are all respond differently, but just wanted to let you know that I have a good experience using it vaginally.
Julie x
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Hi Julie
That sounds interesting. When you do use Utrogestan vaginally does it help with tiredness and low mood? Also does the whole capsule dissolve completely? How far do you need to inset it? Really sorry but I have no idea and I am looking at using it this way next time.
Thanks
Shellb
xXx
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Hi Shellb,
Because I told my GP I wanted to use it vaginally, I got some vaginal applicators with the 200mg Utro, so I use these to insert the capsule. I think other ladies on this website pop it in as far as they can manually! The capsule dissolves and you get a white discharge from that in the morning. It has helped with my low mood, although has taken 3 months to really help with this. The tiredness is a hard one for me to comment on due to that fact I have chronic fatigue! It has helped me sleep better as I was having such disturbed nights before I went onto hrt, so I do feel better than I did.
Hope this helps a bit! I am very happy to take Utrogestan because it is a natural progesterone and feel happy to use only 100mg vaginally as research suggests you don't need to take as much as you would do orally as it is getting directly to the site it needs to affect!
Julie xx
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Hi Julie
Thanks for the reply, it sounds positive, I'm hoping to try it vaginally next time.
Thanks
Shellb
xXx
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Its really simple, just pop it in when you get into bed, you dont have to shove it in too deep, as far as I am concerned this is the best way to use the Utro and there is absolutely no reason to be scared to use it this way, I am with a private gynae and he prescribes this method for his patients very successfully. I cannot swallow tablets so its a good thing that they can go in the other way. :D
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Hi cassy, shellb and juliekim
Have read all the replies and feel a bit better about trying the utrogestan vaginally. Hopefully I too will be able to use it for 14 days and the 100mg instead of 200mg. Can you do that juliekim without having to have a yearly scan to check everything is ok?
When I got up this morning I felt terrible. The only thing that helps me feel better is tramadol. I was prescribed it for my back pain and found that when I took it - it seemed to help my brain fog and tiredness - bit of a mystery.
Anyway I'm going t try and carry on taking it and hopefully when I see the doctor next Friday he will give me the 100mg.
Forgot to say, this afternoon I checked to see if my patch was ok and it had nearly peeled off. So had to put another one on, it's never ending.
Hope to hear from you all soon -thanks for the replies.
PollyH
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It is generally considered, that if you are taking a dosage that is not usually prescribed as you would be, if you were using the 100mg for less than 25 days, then an annual scan is a good idea to see what the lining of your uterus looks like and if the Utrogestan is sufficient.
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Hi PollyH,
Yes I agree with Cassie about getting a scan. I am going to ask my GP once I have been on it for a year, just to check things out. I am having a good withdrawal bleed, so I am assuming that is a good sign. I am also on a low amount of Oestrogel, which again, can only be a good thing in relation to taking 100mg Utrogestan.
Hopefully your brain fog and tiredness with be alleviated once your hormones balance more.
Julie xx
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Not sure if the NHS offers scans unless there is a problem.
You can and must ask- but I wouldn't be surprised if you are met with a blank stare!
Usually the NHS only does scans if there are symptoms- not as preventative treatment.
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Which is a shame really, as surely endometrial hyperplasia and the resultant long term treatment, whatever that would be for it, would far surpass the cost of a quick 5 minute scan just to see how things look... and to adjust the dosage according?
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The medical profession don't generally like anyone going off piste with regards to treatment plans, and that's what you do if you use vaginally. I did not tell my GP that is what I intended to do as I knew it would be frowned on.
I don't think that you will be able to get a scan unless there is a problem. NHS cutbacks don't help and also the attitude that if we did not jiggle around with HRT there would be no need. Scans unfortunately are for problems and not for peace of mind d.
I expect if a scan is what you want then private is the only option.
Honeyb
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Not so much using vaginally that is going off piste, but the fact that one is not taking it for the prescribed number of days which is the problem, in fact, vaginally has a far more successful delivery route. Private scans cost an arm and a leg... :(
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Utrogestan is not prescribed in this country for vaginal use so you have a double whammy. I agree about the price of a scan but if we don't use as prescribed then we don't have a leg to stand on really.
Honeyb
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I prefer to take it vaginally, I think the side effects are less. I took 200mg orally last month for 10 days and I have a problem with vertigo at the moment....it started after I had been taking 200mg for 10 days orally so I think there may be a connection. Not sure tho..could be a virus or labyrinthtitis, its not nice tho. This month I'm going to try 100mg taken vaginally for 12 days and see if I fair any better...I don't get much of a bleed if any tho, whatever dose I take. I also have to douche to get the remains of the utrogestan out . Like many on here, I have grown to dislike the utrogestan phase, I also seem to develop a brain fog after about 7 days use.
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You can use it vaginally for infertility/ fertility use in the UK . Consultants are also happy for it to be used either way for HRT. If you tell your dr this then they might be willing to listen ( and learn!)
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Most bog standard GPs have never heard of it let alone prescribe it for vaginal use.
Private consultants obviously have to do something different because other wise why bother to pay when your GP could do the same.
Private will tailor to your individual needs but in reality there is not an infinite number of HRTs so we are all stuck with the same thing whether we pay or not.
Scans are available privately but not on the NHS unless there is a problem.
There is the big question.
Private consultants will prescribe and take a chance of thickening of the womb lining because they can then send you for a scan ( more money ). GPs will be more conservative and stick to basic guidelines.
You pay your money ( or not) and you take your chance.
Honeyb
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