Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: Sunnyday on April 09, 2014, 12:45:33 PM
-
I'm 55. And suffered badly with this condition until I saw a consultant who put me on Climagest 2mg and Vagifem. Now changed to orthoGynest as Vagifem has been discontinued. This medication turned my life around and I have felt like a new woman. Sadly he said I could only take it for 5 years and the five years Is now up. I'm now due for my review at the GPs. No where can I find any information about the future for me with this condition once taken off the medication. Is there anything else I will be offered. I'm so emotional about it all any advice would be greatly appreciated.
-
:welcomemm:
Firstly Vagifem has not been discontinued. You used to be able to get 25mg but now it's only available in 10mg.
Secondly, Vagifem can be used for ever. My mother is nearly 92 and she has been using a form of vaginal oestrogen for 25 years so your doctor is talking rubbish.
There is so little uptake into the bloodstream it is thought to be equivalent to about 2 HRT tablets a year.
If you look at the green menu on the left Vagifem is mentioned there. You could print out the information and show it to your GP. If that does not help then can you see a more clued up GP.
Honeyb
x
-
Totally agree with HB. Used correctly there is very minimal systemic absorption of topical estrogens. It should not be used on and off, but instead a steady use to keep up the protective wall of cells on the vaginal wall, which reduces absorption.
-
That's sounds encouraging and makes me feel a lot easier. To think I can stay on the Ortho-Gynest Or vagifem if I can get them back. So how you get misled. The receptionist said they had been discontinued. Perhaps it's the Hrt medication he will take me off The climagest. But from memory. He said the two went together and I didn't go with any Hrt symptoms. Only the Vaginal Atrophy.
-
:welcomemm: Ortho Gynest pessaries are supposedly to be discontined :-\ >:(
When were you told that you had to stop after 5 years ??? ......... have a word with a Pharmacist to see what the most recent recommendations are!
Browse round, join in ;)
-
That's sounds encouraging and makes me feel a lot easier. To think I can stay on the Ortho-Gynest Or vagifem if I can get them back. So how you get misled. The receptionist said they had been discontinued. Perhaps it's the Hrt medication he will take me off The climagest. But from memory. He said the two went together and I didn't go with any Hrt symptoms. Only the Vaginal Atrophy.
If it was me Id make an appt with your GP BUT before I went Id print off the Vagifem leaflet
Id also have about 4 chemists numbers that he/she can ring and see for him/herself that Vagifem hasnt been discontinued its only had the dose lowered Plus he /she can then see Vagifem can be used as long as theres no sides for life i needed
Plus u dont talk to the receptionist they are just that RECEPTIONISTS not Nurses or Doctors
Or wed be making appts to see the recep\tionists hehehe Id alo ring her and say by the way
Your giving out wrong information Vagifem has not been discontinued its just the dose has been lowered. Id then be telling the GP that THE RECEPTIO was giving medical information
-
Ortho Gynest pessaries have been discontinued unfortunately. 10mg Vagifem pessaries, Ovestin and Gynest cream are still available.
-
Ortho Gynest pessaries have been discontinued unfortunately. 10mg Vagifem pessaries, Ovestin and Gynest cream are still available.
Thank you so much for your advice. Ive just tried to download the information and it wouldn't allow me. However Ive copied and pasted to take with me to GP. Have an appointment on Monday. Will let you know how I get on.
Interesting reading actually.
Quote..... Vagifem £16.72 for 24
Ortho-Gynest £4.73 for 15.
Now it wouldn't surprise me in the least if this is why I have been changed. They did this to my Husband with his Arthritis tablets.
Changed them for cost effectiveness.
They are certainly not as easy to use and I don't think as good as Vagifem. But I would be happy to stay on either. Both solve my condition.
Let you know on Monday my outcome
Sheila
-
Ortho Gynest pessaries have been discontinued unfortunately. 10mg Vagifem pessaries, Ovestin and Gynest cream are still available.
Thank you so much for your advice. Ive just tried to download the information and it wouldn't allow me. However Ive copied and pasted to take with me to GP. Have an appointment on Monday. Will let you know how I get on.
Interesting reading actually.
Quote..... Vagifem £16.72 for 24
Ortho-Gynest £4.73 for 15.
Now it wouldn't surprise me in the least if this is why I have been changed. They did this to my Husband with his Arthritis tablets.
Changed them for cost effectiveness.
They are certainly not as easy to use and I don't think as good as Vagifem. But I would be happy to stay on either. Both solve my condition.
Let you know on Monday my outcome
Sheila
U demand them its not ur buisness if they arent managing their money
So many women older ones and mentoo are palmed off with cheaper products some not as good u can just say u found ortho messy thank u and want the pressaries as ur husband doesnt li the cream either u want anything in this life U SAY remember they work for YOU
Vagifem is easier cleaner less messy and for most women is far more effective
Ive advised before that women of a certain age shoujld check the GP they are with and see if their patients are mostly young people and lots of kids os thats a recipe for the pover 50 to get less attention and less medical treatment as sadly some see us as non produtcive
I know Im a cynic but just say I WANT VAGIFEM LEASE AS DOES MY HUSBAND xxxxxx
-
Thank you Suzies Q. I will demand. I just hope he lets me continue on them full stop. I.e my five years is up. Update on Monday. Xxx
-
Just back from my GP. He was a good listener. He's sending me for a scan. Taken me off the Climagest. Changed me back to the new lower dose Vagifem. Took all my bloods. So I got what I wanted Suzie Q. Thanks for your posts.
-
Wondering why has he taken you off HRT? ( except for topical vaginal HRT) . Did he discuss this with you first and say why he wanted you to stop?
There is no time limit now ( recommended advice by the BMS) for HRT . And why has he arranged a scan? Is this because of bleeding or something else?
You might find you are fine without systemic HRT but on the other hand some women need both- systemic and local.
I've linked here to the latest recommendations by the British Menopause Society . Look at the 3rd bullet point which refers to length of time on HRT .
http://www.thebms.org.uk/statementpreview.php?id=1
The decision whether to use HRT should be made by each woman having been given sufficient information by her health professional to make a fully informed choice.
The HRT dosage, regimen and duration should be individualised, with annual evaluation of pros and cons.
Arbitrary limits should not be placed on the duration of usage of HRT; if symptoms persist, the benefits of hormone therapy usually outweigh the risks.
HRT prescribed before the age of 60 has a favourable benefit / risk profile.
It is imperative that women with premature ovarian insufficiency are encouraged to use HRT at least until the average age of the menopause.
If HRT is to be used in women over 60 years of age, lower doses should be started, preferably with a transdermal route of administration.
It is imperative that in our ageing population research and development of increasingly sophisticated hormonal preparations should continue to maximise benefits and minimise side effects and risks.
This will optimise quality of life and facilitate the primary prevention of long term conditions which create a personal, social and economic burden.
-
Hi Sarah. It's because the last two periods were heavy and a few clots. It will be good yo be honest to try without and see how I get on. If nothing found he said I could have at least another five years.
-
All my periods have been heavy on HRT ( much more than pre HRT!) but that is because I have been on long cycle HRT.
Good news that he is open to the idea of you continuing.
Why not try a bleed-free regime?
-
Yes could do. Happy to try without first. Anything you can manage without is good to me. If not I'm only more than happy to try anything. As long as I never go back to how I was when it all began.
-
Just back from my GP. He was a good listener. He's sending me for a scan. Taken me off the Climagest. Changed me back to the new lower dose Vagifem. Took all my bloods. So I got what I wanted Suzie Q. Thanks for your posts.
IM chuffed for you all u have to do is be forthright and upfront
Get the info from the Vagifem site on the net where it says can be used indef as long as no sides affect you To get good results can take up to 4/5 months its not a quick fix for most
But for some ladies they get pain releif asap I did the throb suction ache was gone with in 3 Days of the 14 day regime but I was put on 25m thats all there was in 2010 and for me in Ozz
Thats all there still is 25m I can say in all honesty 13th Feb 2010 2 years of agony
AND I was using Ovestin and the mini pill with in 1 week of JUST Vagifem my life changed
Feb agony sex FORGET IT by The September I was in Paris Venice Rome Home in Cheshire
I bragged I has rumeptty pummy in every place we went BUT like all things if I dont have reg jollies I tighten at the opening and its OUCH to enter but once in YIPPEEEEE
So go for it and make sure your GP is well,aware he/she can give it out indef xxxxxxxxx
-
Sarah - unfortunately UK GPs are locked into old research so will not prescribe after a certain age or if a woman has been on HRT for so-many years >:( .........
<wave> SuziQ
-
CLKD- have a look at this post - Sunny says that her GP is happy for her to have another 5 years if her scan etc is okay. :)
Hi Sarah. It's because the last two periods were heavy and a few clots. It will be good yo be honest to try without and see how I get on. If nothing found he said I could have at least another five years.
-
::)
:thankyou: going around with eyes half shut :sigh:
-
Hello everyone
Despite this amazing website, it would appear some attitudes just dont change. I have moved recently and unfortunately had to change GP. Nice modern surgery, polite staff and easy to get an appointment. What could go wrong????
No Vagifem, thats what. I went for the regular check up and to get a repeat prescription of my HRT and Vagifem and was told by the practice nurse that I couldn't really have both :o. As a surgery they didn't do that!!. She did give me a script and I thought sorted for a while until I actually put my glasses on to find it was for 8!!!!! Vagifem and I was still going to have to pay 8 quid for them >:(
So I had a telephone conversation with a male GP. It was the same attitude, why did I need them, explained vaginal atrophy and that I had tried upping my HRT dose to see if that made any difference ( it didn't). He said continued use was risky and caused documented problems. I said the dose was now lower and that the systemic uptake was low, but he went on about documented side effects of too much hormone. He suggested I take a break occasionally for 2 weeks!!. I felt like saying to him, do you want to tell my partner we aren't having sex for the next 2 ( probably 3) weeks because you dont know what your talking about. I agreed to do that but of course I won't. He has prescribed me a box so am sorted for the next 12 weeks. Will be interesting to see if I can get a repeat prescription easily or if there will be a fight every time.
I will be asking for a female GP next time I have to make an appointment and will be going in there armed and dangerous. I'm waiting for them to say I have been on the HRT too long. Early menopause so have been on HRT for 5 years and will be turning 50 :D in a few months.
Decent healthcare shouldn't have to be a battle, if a bloke had to sit down all day with his bits hurting I'm sure he would soon sort himself out :o
Keep up the good work and spread the word ladies
Anne
-
I feel for you Anne. Stay strong and stand your ground. Print off the information you need and take it with you. Hope you get on ok. It stresses you out when you have to fight for it. I'd rather live five years and have them than live ten and not have them.
-
Thanks Sunnyday
I agree with you. Dont worry I'll be armed with everything next time ;D
-
Annie - I would struggle with your GP! One box only lasts me 6 - 8 weeks, but mine keep prescribing it :)
-
I have advised women pals to take hubbie with them its amazing the diff attitude
To have a husband say we cant have SEX IM scared of hurting my wife
Or to go and say its affecting your marriageI also found aving the man there tends to intimidate the MALE GP and make the female GP uncomfortable NOW I wouldn advise this
Unless you have a GP thats being unreasonable wont listen cant be shown wont believe what he reads (she too) One of my pals took the MIMMS book with ehr and the FEMALE
GP still wouldnt be;leive what was written my pa;l went off on one and said OK
So u only believe what u want to belive in the MIMMS book then?
Needless to say she got the Vagifem
With 5 rpts hehehehehe
-
Ask your GP to ring Dr Currie ;)
-
annied - what a frustrating experience for you!
The practice cannot refuse to prescribe you HRT (both systemic and local ie vaginal) at all if there is no medical reason that YOU cannot be prescribed it, as long as the HRT is an approved product, which all the ones on this website are.
I would definitely make another appointment and if they refuse then ask to be referred to a menopause clinic, because clearly they do not have your interest at heart and have probably only read selected papers - not an overview. The one I always refer to is the 2013 paper from Women's Health Concern and British Menopause Society which gives their recommendations -
http://min.sagepub.com/content/19/2/59
Here is a recent article by the Chairman of NICE ( National Institute of Health and Care Excellence) who says patients (sadly) need to be more pushy with their doctors (difficult when you are feeling hormonal)!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/nhs/10595806/NHS-patients-should-be-pushy-with-GPs-about-treatment-and-drugs-says-health-chief.html
In it he says this:
Patients should adopt “American†attitudes and be more pushy with their doctors about drugs to which they are entitled, the head of the NHS rationing body has said.
Professor David Haslam, chairman of the National Institute of Health and Care Excellence (NICE), said British patients should become more assertive and see themselves as “equal partners†with their doctors, with legal rights.
He said patients in this country needed to learn from the Americans, who are far more confident about entering into dialogue with family doctors about their health, and taking an active role in managing their health.
Prof Haslam said too many patients were not being offered medications approved by NICE – and should learn more about their conditions and ask for drugs which should be prescribed for them.
In an interview with The Telegraph, he said: “When products have been approved for use by the NHS by Nice, patients have a legal right to those drugs - as long as they are clinically appropriate. The take-up should be much higher than it currently is." ......
The article is much longer but hope it gives you strength to feel confident to argue your case.
Hurdity x
-
Go along before you need another prescription. Make a double appt., take the article, give them this web-site addy and ask for an on-going discussion about YOUR needs, explain that you are not talking about what has been reported in the past but what is current thinking. Ask your GP to print off the references that he is referring to ;) - sometimes GPs won't prescribe because it costs the Practice >:(
-
The other alternative is to write to the GP Practice them to cite their evidence/references for their decision. Also include your evidence/references. Then they will have to do some research before they reply. Forcing them to do a written will make them look at the evidence rather than verbally fob you off in a Consultation.
-
One of my pals took the MIMMS book with ehr and the FEMALE
GP still wouldnt be;leive what was written my pa;l went off on one and said OK
So u only believe what u want to belive in the MIMMS book then?
What's MIMMS?
-
MIMMS is the GP prescribing bible
-
Thanks Ellie.
That does ring a bell - had a side effect from something once, was told by the GP of the minute that "that doesn't sound very likely" She then looked in book, seems it was MIMMS and said oh that can happen" in shocked tones.
-
The other alternative is to write to the GP Practice them to cite their evidence/references for their decision. Also include your evidence/references. Then they will have to do some research before they reply. Forcing them to do a written will make them look at the evidence rather than verbally fob you off in a Consultation.
That sounds like a great idea ellie66! Could be taken up by several on here with similar experiences, I am sure....
Hurdity x
-
I def think it's better to do something before you turn up because some drs might poo-poo websites- not all websites are the same and they don't know just from a name you give that it's an expert's site.
-
Bounce
-
I'm 55. And suffered badly with this condition until I saw a consultant who put me on Climagest 2mg and Vagifem. Now changed to orthoGynest as Vagifem has been discontinued. This medication turned my life around and I have felt like a new woman. Sadly he said I could only take it for 5 years and the five years Is now up. I'm now due for my review at the GPs. No where can I find any information about the future for me with this condition once taken off the medication. Is there anything else I will be offered. I'm so emotional about it all any advice would be greatly appreciated.
HI xxxx
what makes you think or who on earth told you that you will and can come off the treatment?
ATROPHY cant be cured just managed its a medical condition you can stay on Vagifem FOR LIFE!
Plus who told you Vagifems been discontinued? If your in USA uve been lied too its 15 times dearer than Ortho most HMOs wont prescribe Vagifem for long as its too exy If ur in UK is ur surgery a Trust?
That plays a part as Vagifems more exy than Ortho so they save money BUT theyve no right medical
Or financial to remove Vagifem from you and 100% not too lie GO on the site its not been discontinued
AND for GODS sake DONT come off your medication or your horrors will return xxxxxxxx
PS Id be going back and demanding Vagifem and tell them they have made an error its still available
Where do you live? Its 100% available in UK I looked up on the medical site its still being manafactured Though only 10m now instead of 25m Im living in Ozz now and here we still have 25m x2 a week
As soon as you discontinue Ortho all the symptoms will return almost straight away
-
Well Said SuziQ! ………
You could pay to send an e-mail to Dr Currie for advice which you can then take to your GP! or ask your GP to have a look at this web-site. It is unethical to stop treatment which works and is unnecessary though GPs will use lots of excuses in order to keep within budgets :bang:
-
Hi CLKD :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D