Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: Taz2 on April 04, 2014, 02:00:51 PM
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Well ladies after eight months off HRT due to reaching the grand milestone of sixty years of age and my doc wanting to "see how you go without it" yesterday was the day I just couldn't do it any more so I am sitting here with an Evorel Sequi patch firmly stuck to my buttock ;D
I had one pack left in the bathroom cupboard which goes out of date this month so I must now make an appointment with my GP and confess I suppose.
The downsides of no HRT were: drenching sweats up to three times an hour, joint aches and pains, overwhelming lack of energy, dry skin and hair, very poor sleeping due to the sweats, worsening of prolapse which now requires a hysterectomy, very poor nail growth, irritability.
The upsides of no HRT were: complete lack of bloating, weight loss of 10lbs (can't put it down to anything else) no heartburn (plagued with this for the six years I was on HRT but didn't really connect it) hardly any chin hairs anymore instead of having to attend to them daily (sounds like a gardener) no itchy skin rashes which I think were linked in to the progesterone but hadn't really made that connection until a short time ago, less panicky feelings.
Yesterday morning between getting up at 6.30 and sticking the patch on at 9.30 I had eight sweats bad enough to steam my glasses up and soak through bra and knickers. Today I have just had my third very mild sweat of the day - more like a flush really - so long may it continue. I'm a bit concerned that the doc might not let me stay on it although she did say that if I couldn't manage then she would prescribe it again for me. I was feeling really down last time I saw here and she prescribed anti depressants working on the theory that if I felt happier then I could "cope better with the sweats". However, even if I felt a bit happier about being drenched three times an hour and not sleeping I would still have problems trying to continue with my work during the sweat itself which is accompanied by really high heart rate, feeling of weakness and loss of thought and words somehow.
Taz x :D
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No one can say you did not give it a good go Taz. I don't think I could have put up with sweats for that long.
After your hysterectomy then perhaps you can have gel and tweak it so you have symptom control without being constrained to a general patch dose.
At least you are going to get a bit of relief and just in time for your break from school.
Honeyb
x
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Hi Taz poor you. I think you've done the right thing going back on the patches, no-one should be expected to struggle so much and I just hope your go supports you in this x
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Taz, you did your best, that's important. You can't tell until you try. I'm now 3 months of half 25mg patch. Still get 2/3 flushes per day, but none of those awful draining sweats. I'm reluctant to give them up completely though.
Thing is, you have to weigh up your life quality and you're not getting that. Your GP, I hope will support you through this. When's your hysterectomy? Sorry if you've already said, my brain is not in gear at the moment.
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Taz you did well to tough it out for eight months, hope the symptoms ease quickly, and if you do decide to go ahead with a partial hysterectomy,
you will be able to kick the progestin goodbye and embrace estrogen only :)
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Good for you :)
Hope you carry on feeling better. The future for HRT is evidently tailor-made lower doses for women for longer periods of time - ie beyond 60. I am sure you have done the right thing. A friend of a close friend of mine has gone back on it at 74 after 6 months of hell off it, and she says she doesn't care if she drops dead at 80 or sooner - it's about quality of life.
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Thanks for your encouraging comments. I keep getting the start of a flush and I gear myself up for it and it dies away again. Evorel worked really quickly last time, Femseven not so fast but I don't think they stuck properly. It's a shame that Evorel have Norethisterone. As you say SL when I have my hyster (no date yet Cubagirl) then I will no longer need evil progesterone.
I'm away tomorrow for a week on my own - self indulgent bliss. Will take the laptop though as there is Wifi in the apartment and if it's rainy I might get bored....
Taz x :)
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You'e given no HRT a go.
Nobody can blame you for starting again.
Will you stick with sequi or try conti?
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I came off conti before because the continuous progesterone was giving me really low mood and bloating. I reckoned that if I was on sequi, though a bleed was a bit of an inconvenience, at least I would feel good for half of the month. May try conti again. Femseven suited me better but I really got annoyed at the non-stick nature of the patches!
Taz x
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Good luck Taz.
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We've followed your journey and experiences with interest over the last few months Taz, and of course with sympathy at your plight and predicament, as many of us reach that magic age and wonder what the future holds re coming off HRT or not.
It really sounds like you've made the right decision for you - which you haven't taken lightly, because right now, as cubagirl says - you have to think of quality of life while you are still young enough to enjoy it. Many of us, like you, who are still working (at this age) could not function if we had to go through what you have been through these last months.
I hope the upsides of being back on it outweigh the downsides and you have a great and relaxing time away on your own! At least you won't have to keep changing the sheets!!! ;D
Hurdity :sunny:
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Enjoy your flush free holiday.
Freedom beckons, and as Hurdity says no changing the sheets ;D
Honeyb
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Hi Taz
Your suffering sounds awful.
I think your doctor was cruel to take you off HRT and make your prolapse worse so that you have to have a hysterectomy.
I think you should get some sort of redress for that.
My doctor said I would have to come off HRT eventually, but I said I am not coming off it if I still need it. She said I won't get to choose, I will be taken off it.
Hopefully, by then, I hope my doctor willl have updated herself on menopause related issues, because, I am sure, she must see other women who are going through much worse meno symptoms than me.
Hell, she may even have retired by then.
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Good luck Taz, enjoy your break and do not feel guilty-you gave it your best shot! I am envious, I have had to come off hrt yet again and would love to be able to stay on it post 60 -am currently waiting for an appt at a meno clinic to see if that might be possible... Have a lovely, cool, relaxing holiday!
Diamonds and pearls x
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You've done so well to last 8 months. Best of luck with GP appt when it comes to it.
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Am just leaving for my little week away. The flushes/sweats are every forty minutes but a bit less intense so hopefully after a few weeks they will disappear. If I could go back eight months there is no way I would come off it!
Taz x
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Hi Taz
This has been really interesting to read, I really hope the patches have kicked in again for you and you're feeling better. I've been using HRT for two years now and have definitely felt some benefits. My worst symptoms are loose bowels, low mood and anxiety, however I can say that this is worsened by the progesterone phase. I've just started Utrogestan and after reading your thread I've decided to think about hysterectomy if it doesn't work as this regime I am on at the moment is the 7th that I have tried. My periods are horrendous and make me really I'll due to fibroids and anaemia. Please keep posting about how you are getting on as I will be interested to know. Good luck :)
Shellb
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Taz 8 months is a long time especially whilst holding down a job as well. I wish you all the best and things will be so much more straight forward when you have your hyster. Best wishes x
ps can i ask what dose you have started with?
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Thanks ladies!!
Sweettooth - I had one box of Evorel Sequi left which was still just in date so I used those.
The flushes have almost totally gone which is great but the progesterone (third day of that) is making me feel absolutely huge - have had to move my bra band to another notch and my jeans don't fit. I am craving food - usually I don't have much appetite and have that sort of woozy feeling which you get if you need to eat. I've also got slight heartburn again. I'm finding it interesting as to what symptoms return as, before, I just accepted the way I was feeling as down to age rather than HRT. It's still worth it though to be rid of the drenchings!
Oestrogen only HRT does seem much kinder to the body.
Taz x
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After your operation then you can choose oestrogen patches or a little gel just to get the flushes under control.
I am on conti HRT so have the progesterone all the time which is not great but I am prepared to tolerate it so I can sometimes sleep at night.
I often wonder whether HRT does help me sleep as I have gone through periods of insomnia for years and years. I was always worse on the run up to a period then I would sleep like a log.
Just want to feel normal, whatever that is :P
Honeyb
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You may only need a low dose of oestrogen after the op Taz. I like patches, but gel is good too.
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I'm not sure why the op will make any difference to how much oestrogen I'll need but time will tell!
Taz x
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Sure will Taz. But don't them fob you off if you need it, you need it.
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The reason i asked Taz is that i am 52 and at present restarted on half of 75mcg patch (37.5) because i was still getting odd flushes/sweats etc i upped it to 50 but whether it was a coincidence or not, i did not feel well pmt symptoms, headache and racing heart although i sometimes get these anyway! but i am going to try again in a week or so.
All the best with your hyster, mine was a prolapse and i flew through it but because i was still peri, my hormonal balance was off the wall! you will be fine as you are post meno :) xx
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Taz - At least you won't need the progestogen after the op so will be able to take however much oestrogen you like to feel good! Do you have a date yet?
sweettooth - it is common to feel temporary side effects from increasing oestrogen (such as breast pain, headaches, nausea etc) but these should settle and if 37.5 mcg is not controlling the flushes/sweats (it didn't with me) then you definitely need a higher dose. I would stick with the 50 mcg for at least a month and hopefully you will reap the benefits...
Hurdity x
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Well I've finished my one remaining box of patches after an eight month nightmare without HRT and can report that I feel great now. The sweats have gone completely, night and day ones, my skin is really supple and not dry anymore, I'm sleeping really well for me - this means I sleep for around three hours without waking up at all now and then when I do wake up I go straight back to sleep for a couple more hours instead of waking up in a saturated puddle twice an hour. My stiff muscles are much better although still not as good as I would like and people are noticing that I'm more "your old self" - not sure about the "old"!!
Today I finally got to see my lovely GP and knew that I had to confess because I was hoping she would renew my prescription. The first confession was to be that I hadn't started the Citalopram she prescribed in Feb when I was really low and the second one was the fact that I had put myself back onto HRT when she was adamant that I couldn't have any because of my age. I walked into her room and she said "My you look fab - Citalopram is obviously working then. I thought it would". So I straight away had to fess up to what I'd done. She said "Of course you feel great but that doesn't mean you should be on it - especially with the hyster coming up" We talked about the pros and cons of stopping HRT before operations and she said that pelvic and orthopaedic surgeries were the worst for blood clots. Having had one friend who developed a clot after an abdominal hyster six months ago and a friend's mum who is in hospital with two lung clots following minor knee surgery I sort of agreed. She phoned a colleague for his advice which was the same. In the "older" woman HRT is to be stopped at least four weeks (eight preferably) before any planned surgery.She agreed it was strange this wasn't in my letter about my op but did point out that in the letter she had received from the consultant it did say that "I understand that this lady is no longer on HRT" :-X
She was really helpful with hints re recovery time and said that week one and two you feel quite good because you have had the op and survived but that week three is often one when women can feel quite low and miserable. She also said that I would probably be in hospital for four to five days which seems an incredibly long time to me! I mentioned the anxiety - hate knowing I can't go out if I need to - and she said not to start Citalopram before the op but to make sure GAD is written on my notes when I go for the pre-op so that I can have sleeping tablets if I need it. This saves having to get it authorised by a doc which can take up to three hours which is a long time to be in a panic.
As for HRT - she said that if I really can't cope after I've had the hyster and given it a couple of months then at least my HRT will be oestrogen only which is better but that I had to understand that at some stage of my life I will have to go through these symptoms. I, of course, did mention that if I took it for the rest of my life then that wouldn't happen. She did agree that up to the age of 70 risks and benefits are thought to be equal.
I am sad that my month of feeling great (apart from the horrible period that started yesterday) is at an end and that the flushes/sweats will be back pretty soon. At least I know though that if I can persuade someone to prescribe it then that little patch makes me feel a whole lot better.
Taz x
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So does that mean you are off HRT now Taz until after your operation? Such a pity given the fact you have been doing so well. Your GP sounds a real gem.
Really surprised that you will be in the hospital for that long, I thought they chucked you out really quickly but I suppose if you count the operation day as day one and the coming out day as day five it's not so long at all.
Hope your flushes don't come back too soon.
Honeyb
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Thanks honeyb. Yes off HRT until at least September and only then if I really push for it. I did say that I lost a total of 10lbs when I was off it and she said "yes, HRT can cause an overall roundness in some women" which made me giggle. I have put on 6lbs since going back on it and have got my boobies back - yay. One thing I found out about her today is that for two days a week she works at a women's natural health centre . The other thing she's doing is getting me tested for low Vitamin D levels because of the muscle stiffness and weakness plus fatigue. You are right she is a gem.
Taz x
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Is it a blood test for Vit D ?
I don't think my surgery do it but maybe if I asked. Although I do like the sun we don't get much of it up here and sometimes I wonder if I lack something that makes me tired a lot. Hubby says it's because I never sit still, I get bored easily and don't do relaxing very well ::)
I could always send you some patches....I won't tell if you don't ;)
Honeyb
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It's a blood test yes. She said it is readily available on the NHS and she feels that everyone over the age of 65 should take a supplement automatically. She has put seven patients on it over the last week as their levels were "through the floor". She said that they prescribe pills but that sprays are more efficient but you have to pay for them. She suggested it. She knows that I don't like sunny days and love he long dark winter nights. We had a chat about that too and she explained about the pineal gland and that mine works in reverse to most peoples. It is the pineal gland which is implicated in bi-polar disorder too which is why if you google Reverse Sad you will find that it is always linked into depression.
Taz x
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Hi Taz
Is it worth thinking about seeing anyone else ( maybe privately even?) if you are not happy?
The risk of transdermal HRT is very very low- in fact all the info I have read ( papers not general web-blurb) says there is no increase in blood clots with transdermal HRT .
I wonder if the drs are not differentiating between these two types re. your op?
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Sorry - forgot to say - you are so kind with your patches offer but I would be stressed over the blood clot situation. Having seen what my friend's mum has gone through this past week I definitely don't want one! Doc also said that if I was on HRT and this caused a clot then I wouldn't be able to have it again under any circumstances whereas if I really can't cope without it after the hyster and I avoid a clot then there is still a possibility that I could restart it.
Taz x
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Gosh Taz what a lot to think about!
It's amazing how quickly the HRT works and the changes it makes to your body. At least you have had a small reprieve from the symptoms.
Re Vit D - is it possible to go out into the sunshine a little - I do think it really makes a difference? Having had a lot of sunshine recently, I feel totally different to how I felt 6 weeks ago and wonder if it would help you generally despite your aversion? Even dappled sunlight in woodlands I am sure would be beneficial and I know you like birds!
Anway I hope you manage to survive the rest of the term until your op and that the flushes take a while to return....and what an amazing GP!
Hurdity x
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Think your GP is very wise to be cautious Taz, and once you are up and healing you can reconsider estrogen.
Here is some info, if you scroll down you will see patches are on the list of cautions.
You GP sounds great and it looks as if she practices holistically.
http://www.clotconnect.org/about-clot-connect/news/march-is-dvt-awareness-month
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Taz your GP sounds absolutely amazing.
It's good that she hasn't written HRT of for you for ever.
Will you be going outside soaking up the sun, or getting the spray your doctor mentioned to boost your Vitamin D levels?
Hope everything goes well with the tailing off of HRT (again) and the Op itself when it happens.
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Thanks ladies.
SL - that link is really interesting. I have had some info re blood clots as my mum had a couple of DVT's when she was in her sixties - not on HRT.
I can't see me soaking up the sun Limpy although I have been trying to go out in it more since my friend mentioned vit D. When I was young I used to love sunny days so I have been asked by my doc to try to retrace my past and work out when I began to love the dark days of winter more than the sunny days of summer. We should all like bits of each season.
She does practice holistically but as it's a private practice she's not allowed to actually mention it during our NHS consultations. Now I've asked her what she does on her "days off" (she only works as a GP two days a week) she has told me and I suppose that if I ask her for details and costs she is now allowed to tell me. My last GP at the same practice was a homeopathist and I really miss him. She inherited all of his books when he died a few years ago now of thyroid cancer. We were the same age - he was one in a million!
Taz x
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Forgot to add Taz that they had me up and in a salt bath the next day, no dressing, you will be encouraged to walk, I even walked out of the ward and along the corridor for exercise, with lady who was in the bed next to me, we found a side door that opened into a patch of grass and a seat, so we use to sit there for a while before going back to the ward.
I have the spray vitamin D3 (Jan De Vries) its lasts for over a month.
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Good for you Taz!
I don't know why Doctors insist on trying to get women off HRT at the age of 60 anyway.
If it aint broke don't fix it.
when I reach 60, I am going to put up a HUGE fight if they try and take my HRT away! ;D They will have to drag me kicking and screaming out of the surgery.
Interesting to note that Most Gynaecologists are in favour of HRT, and its mainly the GP's that are so ANTI it.
Is there a hidden agenda with the NHS? Cost? Fear of being sued if you get ill? What?
I (and I expect many other women) would gladly sign a disclaimer if it meant we could stay on HRT for longer.
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Hi Taz
Your suffering sounds awful.
I think your doctor was cruel to take you off HRT and make your prolapse worse so that you have to have a hysterectomy.
I think you should get some sort of redress for that.
My doctor said I would have to come off HRT eventually, but I said I am not coming off it if I still need it. She said I won't get to choose, I will be taken off it.
Hopefully, by then, I hope my doctor willl have updated herself on menopause related issues, because, I am sure, she must see other women who are going through much worse meno symptoms than me.
Hell, she may even have retired by then.
Dandelion - You think the same as me! ;) We MUST start sticking up for ourselves! It will hopefully push the doctors into keeping updated with current thinking - instead of blindly following outdated 'guidelines' - like a load of sheep.
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This was posted on my facebook by MM this morning
http://www.menopausematters.co.uk/newsitem.php?recordID=153%2FSecond-day-highlights-from-the-International-Menopause-Society-conference-2014
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Hi coolatlast - welcome to the forum.
Have you had a bad experience yourself? Perhaps you would like to tell us a bit more about your own circumstances?
Dandelion - I didn't see it as cruel but part of my reaching 60 and this view is shared by GP, Meno clinic specialist and my gynaecologist. There is little research it seems to me on how women over 60 are affected by continued use of HRT which is a shame. The stroke risk is what has been mentioned to me most often although this really ramps up once you get to 70. I'm not sure why 60 is the magic number but you will find it on quite a few medications too. "not to be used by people over 60" and "use with caution in people over 60". I would have needed a hyster eventually and had put it off for two years. The HRT made it more comfy but in no way cured it. All in all they are just looking out for me.
Taz :welcomemm:
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Doctors take an oath and part of it is "First do know harm" I am sure most doctors take into account their patients health and history and have their best interests at heart.
I don't think demanding anything from our doctors will work and its not a good idea to encourage on MM, that's the best way to get their back up, after all they do study for seven years to become Doctors.
It's best to discuss things in a reasonable manner you will come across as confident knowledgeable and far more likely be listened too.
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I agree SL.
Getting someone's back up by being aggressive is never a good way to go.
Honeyb
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Taz, i suppose if there is a family history they have to cautious. i know that i didnt have to come off hrt when i had my hyster but i was 46 at the time. I then had my ovaries out age 49 still on estrogen, i remember they gave me an injection in my stomach to stop clots and i was wearing these sexy stretch stockings in bed, dont know how the doctors managed to stay away :P
Hurdity thank you for your reply to an old post which i only read earlier, i have increased to 50mcg and shall wait and see what happens x
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I agree SL.
Getting someone's back up by being aggressive is never a good way to go.
Honeyb
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But it's okay to be passive aggressive :)
coolatlast
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My very nice meno specialist also says 60 is the cut off point for HRT.
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She might be nice but she's not right :) There is nothing in any literature about 60 being a cut off point.
Why are women swallowing this line?
The latest recommendations from the BMS say that there should be no 'automatic' cut off point. In fact they even recommend which type of HRT is best for women starting it age 60+.
This 'must stop at 60' is a myth that's being circulated mainly on this forum because a few women here have been told this. It's not borne out in real life - there are women here and women I know who are over 60, and even over 70 who are using HRT.
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Never been told I am passive aggressive before......interesting.
Honeyb
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This is not a myth. I don't know why we disagree with what is told by us from professionals who we decide to consult. From the age of 60 to 70 the risks and the benefits become equal but after 60 the risk of stroke rises and also heart disease from the continued use of oestrogen. The Oxford Menopause Clinic, my GP and my consultant gynae all say that after 60 HRT is inadvisable.
To get this clear - women are not usually denied HRT after the age of 60 but they are advised that it would be better to stop due to the increased stroke risk. The BMS themselves do state that if HRT is to be continued after 60 then the lowest possible dose should be used. If there was no risk why would they say this?
Most GP's now will offer HRT after the age of 60 but it will be put on your notes that you have had the risks explained to you and that you agree that you will be at more risk from stroke or heart disease.
What does your specialist say Sarah - are you over 60 and happy to continue?
Taz x
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Taz-we are disagreeing because I think what you are posting is slightly inaccurate.
How risks rise at a certain age- they are based on the old WHI trials AND they apply to oral oestrogen from what I've read.
There are other favourable stats that show that 10 years of HRT ( starting at whatever age) can reduce cardiovascular disease. There are other stats that show women on oestrogen only HRT have fewer cases of breast cancer than women not on HRT or on combined HRT. There are secondary benefits such as better bone health where relevant ( as in my case) and less bowel cancer. These alone are not a reason to make HRT a first choice treatment necessarily, but they are considerations for each woman and her current or hereditary risks.
The BMS doesn't say what you have written here in my opinion. I may be wrong, but my interpretation of the statement is different!
If HRT is to be used in women over 60 years of age, lower doses should be started, preferably with a transdermal route of administration.
Call this semantics if you like but 'Is to be used ' means to me that if HRT is STARTED at 60 - because they use the word 'started' . They don't use the word 'continued' as in 'If HRT is to be continued'. There is a difference and it may be an important one.
The BMS also says this:
-The decision whether to use HRT should be made by each woman having been given sufficient information by her health professional to make a fully informed choice.
-The HRT dosage, regimen and duration should be individualised, with annual evaluation of pros and cons.
-Arbitrary limits should not be placed on the duration of usage of HRT; if symptoms persist, the benefits of hormone therapy usually outweigh the risks.
If that is not saying that HRT can continue indefinitely based on a woman's own choice and medical history then I don't know what it IS saying!
It IS a myth in the sense that there are no guidelines or recommendations to say women have to stop at 60. Individual drs have their own opinions but they are precisely that: opinions. To my mind the statement from the BMS tries to put an end to women being denied HRT due to duration on it, age , etc.
You ask about my experience: I've answered this question already a few times. I discuss duration and risks with my specialist at my appts. I've reached 5 years so wondered how long I could continue- risks supposedly rise after 5 years ( again, old WHI trial - later trials such as the Danish one studied women for 16+ years and saw no increase in major risks) and many drs make women stop after 5 years. When I mentioned that I'd have to come off it sometime he didn't agree. I am 60 next year and it's been suggested that I will probably have a break for 3 months or thereabouts not because I will be 60 but because I'll have been on it for 7 years, so it might be an idea to see how I get on without it.
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-The decision whether to use HRT should be made by each woman having been given sufficient information by her health professional to make a fully informed choice.
-The HRT dosage, regimen and duration should be individualised, with annual evaluation of pros and cons.
My lovely GP told me he will be happy for me to continue indefinitely with HRT based on the above criteria. He says he 'has ladies in their seventies' on it.
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The whole point of this forum is to share our experiences and thoughts isn't it? ;) We gather information and decide for ourselves what is the right thing for us.
Libby
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Yes of course it is. :) But it would be wrong to give people mis-information, and opinions ( even if they are drs') masquerading as fact.
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My "opinion" is based on my experiences of course. It is also based on what friends have been advised by meno specialists, private consultants, GP's and gyna consultants. I merely said that women at 60 are advised of the risks if they want to continue with HRT. It is not withdrawn from them - they are entitled to still use it but they have to have the risks explained to them. This is what happened to me. It is fact!
I don't think that this is mis-information at all. I haven't read the whole thread though - too many long posts - but I haven't said that I have been denied HRT - merely had the risks pointed out to me.
Taz x
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Taz- you said this:
To get this clear - women are not usually denied HRT after the age of 60 but they are advised that it would be better to stop due to the increased stroke risk
and in the previous post you said your drs said it was 'inadvisable to continue after 60'.
maybe you didn't mean it to sound so cut and dried as it came across, but it did appear that you were saying women had to fight hard to get HRT after 60 and that drs didn't advise it. If I've misread this then I apologise:)
HRT is a contentious issue. One of the most anti- HRT drs I have come across- via radio and so on- is a dr / specialist in Oxford, who continues to support the findings of the WHI and the MW study in the UK.
All drs have to explain risks - it's their ethical duty - and there are risks with HRT before age 60. But it's essential to put the risks into context and look at absolute risk not relative risk. The absolute risk figures are still very small even if you take worst case scenario of the trials now shown to be flawed.
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So it goes on I take my patch off, I put it on again, I take it off.......... ???
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My knowledge is same as Sarah. I was told this by a lady Gynae whose mother was still on it (very low dose) in her eighties! Some of the top Gynae professionals such as Studd are great advocates - he has been dealing with menopausal women of all ages for years so would surely know if the risks were worrying. Another Gynae told me that some of her private patients on hrt are in their seventies. This is a very individual decision and is not all clear cut, there are lots of things to take into consideration ie patients health, family history etc. Some people will smoke and develop diseases such as lung cancer and others wont, we just dont know.
Personally as long as my health allows i will take a little estrogen but thats just me and i can equally understand someone that decides not to x
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An interesting book , I read that Publishers in France didn't dare publish it, (read it on a translated French website)
Sexual Chemistry: Understanding Our Hormones, the Pill and HRT
Whatever you decide to do or think this is thought provoking reading.
In my opinion ultra low doses are the way to go if you want to take HRT, other wise if you do have to come off at 60 for what any reason you body wont go into melt down, combined with supplements diet and a healthy life style, you don't need to take large amounts of HRT.
Relying on large amounts of HRT to keep you feeling and looking the way you did pre menopause is not going to happen( though in some ways I feel a whole lot better) but taking a small amount eg 0.14 micrograms of estrodiol which does not build up the lining of the womb ( if you have one) helps with bone loss, also estriol for VA if needed. I think after sixty a woman should be able to continue with this amount of estrodiol (monitored) no matter what the guidelines say if she wants to.
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I did try half a patch for quite a while a couple of years ago but I still had horrendous sweats - this is the main problem for me as I can't work properly while they are happening and it takes around ten minutes from start to finish for each sweat so I was only having a five minute "good" gap before the next one started. I have been moved to a less "challenging" class too which has saddened me but I understand the reasons. You have to be in tip top form to do what I was doing before and I just wasn't quite meeting the challenge while off HRT.
I've been off it again for 10 days now and had my first sweaty night last night plus a couple of not too bad flushes this morning.
My skin is still so soft - it makes me jump each time I rub my arm because the difference is amazing. No need for any moisturising lotions whereas, before, I was getting through bottles of the stuff.
Leg and chin hairs all grew very quickly when back on HRT but these have slowed down already - especially the chin ones. I will focus on this positive! ;D
Taz x
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Taz try dry skin brushing it keeps the skin amazingly soft and is good for firming the skin too, I have done this for years and have been told how
soft my skin is all you need is baby oil after you have bathed :)
There are so many ways to combat being off HRT or on a smaller amounts, your body has been use to large amounts and has not got used to a lower hormone state.
Once you have had your ops and recovered, you hopefully will be allowed to go back on estrogen even if it is a lowered amount.
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It's just that a lower amount didn't work. Will see what happens though. Lower is better than nothing.
While on HRT my skin is good - even on the lower dose - it is so lovely to have everything sort of plumped up - even the skin on the inside of my arms is so much nicer and not crepey anymore.
I've never tried skin brushing. Baby oil and I don't get on - brings me out in a rash - but there must be alternatives. I will investigate!
Taz x
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Are you allowed estriol it doesn't just plump up the inside of the vagina, it doesn't cause blood clots and its many many times weaker then estrodiol.
Also Vitamin E can help with hot flushes and skin, though you might have to check with your Doctors as it is a mild blood thinner.
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Hi Taz I understand about the lower dose not working because this happened to me, but like me, you went to the lower dose from a higher dose, and symptoms re-started. Perhaps going onto a lower dose from nothing might do the trick (eg 25 mcg), or be sufficient to alleviate the worst of the symptoms, if this would be easier to be prescribed? Unfortunately for you and for many of us it is the dratted progesterone that is needed, and the whole cycle thing - which is a bit of a bore bleeding in your 60's!!
silverlady I don't think there are long term studies of the ultra low dose estradiol (14 mcg?) and that may be an insufficient dose for many but perhaps would work for a lot of women, and it would be good if something like this was recommended for all women indefinitely -as a baseline perhaps, and those who wanted to stay on a higher dose can do so- I can't find the studies at the moment. I would have thought monitoring of the endometrium would be advisable annually and I think maybe that was the recommendation from reading some while ago?
Hurdity x