Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: bev567901 on April 01, 2014, 06:13:52 PM
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Just thought I would post an update on evorel sequi patches
In case anyone has considered using them & is worried. The first 2 weeks on the evorel 50 I had some nausea & headaches. I was worried about going onto the next 2 weeks of the evorel conti due to what I had read but no side effects so far. I have lots more energy & have done so many
Things I have been putting off. Obviously
Not completed the month yet but will report what the bleed feels like
Compared to normal when I get there. Bev x
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Thanks for sharing, Bev. I start month 2 of a Evorel Sequi on Saturday, and so far so good. First 2 weeks I had 2 headaches, one bad, one niggly. But as hubby pointed out, I had a bad headache the week before I started HRT so that can't really be attributed to the patches. I had loads of energy in first 2 weeks, and felt so much better, sleep patterns settled and flushes stopped. Vaginal dryness disappeared, and libido returned, and I felt like I could cope with anything.
Weeks 3 and 4, some symptoms returned, but nothing like as bad as before HRT. Had a couple of mild flushes, one at night and one in the day. Had a little bit of fatigue, and food cravings a couple of days, but nothing was very bad at all. I started a bleed half way through week 3 which lasted a week and it's just about finished now. Sounds strange, but it found it almost cleansing.
If I continue like this I'll be well happy. Hope you're still doing ok.
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Sounds positive Flossie. I finish this first pack a week on Sunday. I already have pain so wonder if my period will come early like normal now & not at the fourth patch time. It's good for anyone looking even in 2 yrs time to see experiences. Glad they are working for u :) xx
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Hi girls, I'm just about to start pack 3 of evorel on Monday. Initially I felt really good but for the past 2 weeks (whilst on progesterone part) I've had really bad nausea! Just hoping it settles down :'( x
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Hope it settles too, Peri. Guess we have to give our bodies time to settle down. Was chatting to my friend today who has been on HRT, now takes just progesterone, and she said that it can often be trial and error, changing meds as needed. There's so much HRT options out there, and if I've found the one that works for me first time, I'll consider myself to be very lucky.
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Bev, sounds like you might well get your period. I had mild cramps, and was surprised my period started in week 3, was expecting it once I got onto the next pack. But guess we're all different. Reading and sharing our experiences does really help anyone popping by to see that there isn't a 'normal'.
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Flossie you are psychic! Day 21 & it is here. I was always 28 days pre peri then 24-28 so this is a new one must be the patches. No wonder my back ached so much when I got up this morning I just thought I had overdone stuff. Funny as I would expect more symptoms, have been feeling off but kids been poorly so just thought it was that or tiredness.
Peri I had bad nausea on the 50 patches the first week but it has settled down. I kept busy & sewed myself silly on my new machine until I had to beg myself to stop :) if it returns I shall be back out in the garden keeping busy. Fingers crossed for you it is just a bit of a shifting of hormones & it will settle. B x
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Looks like you found your new normal :)
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Next update on the evorel sequi for anyone searching. I have completed one month & half way through the next. Headaches & nausea not so bad. The bleed was a couple of days longer than normal, more loss but no more painful. I didn't feel anything more than slightly niggly at times on the second phase of patches, I'm not a very angry person anyway. Maybe not so tolerant but probably normal reactions as I am so passive. I have had a lot of work on & coped with all. I even bought a new car so beware ha might not be a side effect though. I have noticed the day I change my patch I have quite bad diarreah, almost like a virus really explosive. Took me a few times to work it out as didn't think it was the patches at first. Feel more confident too. HTH B x
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;D re the new car!
Glad you are feeling better generally.
Also to say really if you are getting a persistent change in bowel habits and you know it's not a virus or something you ate, you ought just to get this checked out with the doctor if it doesn't clear up, rather than assuming it is to do with changing the patch. I would have thought this is an unusual side effect, (especially as patches give a pretty consistent dose of hormones) - and more likely with tablet HRT which can upset the digestion. Transdermal HRT does not go through the digestive system.
Hurdity x
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I will Hurdity I have to see the nurse for my next supply. That wasn't explained when I got them thought I would just get them on repeat so anyone else new to this book that appt before you run out. One of the common side effects on my leaflet is diarrhoea I only read it today as things where so bad. One of my first meno symptoms was that too so hmmmmm might be a changing of levels.
I forgot to mention the boobs I have a free pair with every box, never had them before apart from in pregnancy it's really strange. Getting a bit bigger in other areas too it's a revelation having been a stick my whole life. Wonder if some ladies are lacking in hormones their whole lives????? B x
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Next Evorel Sequi Update - It seems I can plan for a cycle now it happens the same day of the week & it is one day off putting on my last patch for the month. How very nice to know when it will happen these days. I was given a 6 mth supply at my nurse appt so its great to know I have them in quantity. I had put two pounds on but I can feel my clothes getting tighter & my boobs bigger without a weigh in, so far that is a small price to pay. I may reconsider in a couple of years time though! I feel really good when I am on patch 3 of the 50 & do get a bit bossy when I start the conti but not in a stressy way just a bit extra assertive. The diarrhea comes & goes, the day of my period is a trigger for that too. I could just take an immodium if I was desperate its not like I feel poorly or anything. Hoping I have taken the full month this time as my cat can now get anywhere & open cupboards so my safe place is about to be changed :) I have felt very tired on the sequi this month but it is a good tired, I don't nap or anything. Going back to last year when I couldn't sleep this is great. I also am using less diazepam & some of the triggers that sent me into panic/stress with the onset of peri are fading away & I am coping so much better. So all in all a good report again. :clapping: Bev x
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Glad to hear you are feeling better bev567901 - long may it last!
Hurdity x
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Thank you Hurdity, I am hoping that once I have been on them a while it will feel more constant not that I have any really bad days of the month it is just some are really good like the old me days. I can only describe some feelings as like when you get your first ever pair of glasses things are clearer & more colourful. Seems a cliche but it is nice to feel at one again. B x
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Pleased to hear you are doing well Bev.
HRT will never make things perfect but a damn site better than before.
Keep posting, it's nice to read your positive news.
Honeyb
x
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Thanks Honeyb, I am hoping someone else might search for Evorel Sequi as we all do that awful worried looking thing. I think HRT will help me to help myself, I think that about most medication. B x
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Next Evorel Sequi update for anyone searching......I have come to the conclusion that I feel better on the Conti part compared to the 50 part. This contradicts everything else I read whereby ladies felt anxious & down. This has led me to believe maybe I need more progesterone & possibly I have too much estrogen going on which would match the fact that nausea has been my worst peri symptom. I am going to look into ways naturally via food or supplements first before adding anything else as I would like to do a 6-7 mth trial first on this HRT.
My period cramps are far worse than pre HRT & the bleeding is heavier. The fact I know what day it is coming now cancels this out for me but I am going to find some better pain relief for a couple of days a month. I am happy on these patches so far, my workload is through the roof & I am coping. I did think earlier on today with it being the 2 weeks half term school holidays, I am fully work booked up, all the daily stuff to do and my youngest daughter being sick as I rushed about how would I have coped 10 mths ago? Probably not very well so 😄😄 B x
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Great news!
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Hi Bev,
Really great news that you've found what works for you!!! Hang in there and keep us updated! So helpful to know that probably my nausea in the past three days or so is perhaps due to higher estrogen (compared to progesterone). Fingers crossed things will continue to be upward for you!
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Yes it is, just fathoming it out slowly but surely & not doing anything rash. I wasted a whole year pre HRT so what is another one ;D I think my estrogen may always have been high going on my symptoms every month all my adult life so in peri its gone off the scale. Patience seems to be the key & not expecting miracles. I just know it will come right in the end, it has to ;) B x
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Hi again bev
I am assuming you are feeling rough on the 50 part due to the pms just before your period and then feeling bad during your period? This is only to expected and is annoying isn't it - that we continue our cycle artificially and therefore have to continue with pms and periods and all that entails.
Just to clarify - it is unlikely that your symptoms are to do with high oestrogen though (well the pms ones anyway) - if you have been having bad monthly pms all your adult life this will be due to either: progesterone intolerance ( progesterone increases rapidly following ovulation), the withdrawal experienced by sudden drop in progesterone just before the period ( this is a phyisiological response), or drop in oestrogen which also occurs throughout the second half of the cycle. Most women feel at their best following their period and up to, and just after the middle of the month when oestrogen is at its highest!
Added oestrogen is usually a constant dose when you take HRT - any fluctuations are most likely due to your own hormones. If you can also tolerate the progestogen, then you may well notice the negative effects of withdrawal after you change to the oestrogen only patch. This isn't due to the oestrogen, but as I said above, a physiological response to the drop in progestogen - which is what most women experience just before a period. Most women feel at thier best once the progestogen has cleared from their system. and they are taking oestrogen only ( just as in their natural cycle). Unfortunately with HRT, the time between the end of the period on oestrogen only, and starting the progestogen part may only be a few days so some women only feel good for 7 days in the month!
bev - you do not need more progestogen in terms of symptoms! The amount you take is calculated to oppose the oestrogen's effect on the womb lining, and to ensure it does not thicken. For most women the dose ensures this is effective. You would need extra only if your lining has thickened.
It may well be that while you are still peri, your own oestrogen surges, combined with the added oestrogen from HRT, sometimes leads to side effects - but unfortunately there is nothing that can be done about this I don't think - and is another disadvantage of taking HRT early in peri while periods are fairly regular - you will never now when your own hormones are going to rise suddenly.
Hurdity x
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Hi Hurdity,
I haven't seen a better explanation of what is going on even though in the past couple of days I was realy trying to figure it out all. Thank you!!! When I started HRT my bloodwork showed low estrogen, normal progesterone, relatively high FSH but not off limits, and AMH and B inhibin below limits. These last two indicate low or absent ovarian reserves. So it makes sense that now on HRT I will still have disturbances due to my own hormonal fluctuations during the month buy these disturbances should decrease in strenght, right? (My weird logic sometimes fools me). It is true that I felt at best in the 3rd week of the cycle, I wish I felt like that throughout!
And last question - should I then discuss with the Dr. To change to a gel so that I can perhaps regulate the estrogen levels as symptoms indicate? or ask to do less progesterone during the cycle? I know this is not possible with the current HRT I am on (Femoston 2/10) so this might mean changing ?
Thank you again so much!!!
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Hurdity is undoubtedly knowledgeable, but this explanation doesn't fit my experience! I feel much better on progesterone and now am taking it daily feel more level, very little anxiety! Even accounting for the rises and falls in progesterone levels, I felt pretty crappy on estrogen only part and for years my estrogen levels were fairly high but I suffered tremendously from low progesterone. Physiologically progesterone may oppose estrogens actions on the lining of the womb but it has many other benefits. Just as living with zero estrogen is difficult, so is it living with zero progesterone! Everyone is different so the key is to find a balance that works for you!
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Hi Milamam
I can't really advise on what would be best for you - it is a question of trial and error really. I would say though that a transdermal method should give you a more consistent dose of oestrogen than tablet HRT where most is lost through the metabolic process.
Also it's difficult to compare the effects of added HRT with endogenous hormones (ie the ones produced by our own bodies during our natural cycle) - and I think HRT is only doing this crudely. I don't think either, that symptoms will respond instantaneously to changes in gel dosage ( although they seem to for a few women). You would not know in advance what your own hormones are doing so for example you might anticipate a hormonal surge in oestrogen, and reduce the gel dosage - but the surge may not happen so you could end up feeling worse.
What is surprising, is that almost no HRT regimes recreate the rise and fall of the natural oestrogen cycle but average it out over the whole cycle ie you have a constant dose. I think this is to avoid the lows (in oestrogen and mood) experienced pre-menstrually - but I don't know though.
Re progesterone - as I explained you need to have a certain amount to oppose the oestrogen's effect on the womb lining. With the "separates" combo - ie oestrogen patch and separate (micronised) progesterone - Utrogestan - it is possible to vary the amounts of reach hormone independently - although best to do this under medical supervision since any reduction in the licensed dose of progesterone compared to oestrogen - needs closer monitoring to ensure the lining doesn't overthicken.
If you are progesterone intolerant and your GP doesn't cooperate, then maybe you could be asked to be refered to a menopause clinic if there is one in your area?
Suzyq -we do continue to make progesterone and oestrogen during post-menopause. From what I've read post-menopausal progesterone is generally at the same level as the follicular phase (first half) of the menstrual cycle, so it is still there performing its vital metabolic functions - we just don't need the high quantities we do leading up to and during pregnancy!
Hurdity x
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Not all women do! Mine has consistently been at zero for at least 3 years! I can only share my experiences but lots and lots of women use progesterone to good effect - whether you subscribe to dr lee's view or not! Many women who have had hysterectomies and therefore have no need for progesterone, still supplement with this to achieve balance. I just think that women who still have problems after supplementing with estrogen, should consider whether they could be helped by steady progesterone levels - I have been! Honestly a massive improvement
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I have read every book Dr Lee wrote including his very informative text books, if people actually read them they might have a different point of view, and honestly its what works for each individual women that is important. He did not say women should not use estrogen by the way.
Its nonsense to tell a woman that the regime that she is using ( if she chooses to share this knowledge) is not what she should be doing even if she is well and its working for her! Certainly HRT cause as many problems as it solves.
I have just read a sample on my kindle called "The Estrogen Errors: Why Progesterone is Better for Women's Health" and will be buying it, very expensive but just reading the introduction and first chapter, it is compelling!
We are all different as is said many times, some ladies don't have there ovaries, some pack up due to loss of blood supply, other do continue to trickle out post menopause hormones until at least the age of seventy, also we also all different in our chemical makeup, so different hormones and regimes will work or not work for us.
I use a tiny amount of estrogen and quite honesty if I leave my patch off I notice no difference, I also use a small dab of natural progesterone too, and notice I sleep better and feel more calm, this works for me! It might not be right for the next woman, but what is important is to keep an open mind where hormones are concerned and take note when women post about what works for them.
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I agree, from everything I read thus far, there is no one single remedy for all women! I'll stick with femoston at least another month to see in the next cycle whether things will repeat re nausea on the progestogen part, and then discuss with Doc. I have taken Utrogestan before prior to getting pregnant with my second DD, and I don't remember causing any unpleasant effects. So if femoston is not working well, I will discuss patches and Utro separate. Hurdity, I agree, looks like trial and error.
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Has another month gone by? Next period has arrived one day earlier than normal this month. Took me by surprise I did not have much cramping, certainly no PMT or any of the usual headaches/sickness/etc etc. The second half of the month is definately better which still surprises me. I have had an extremely busy work schedule which saw me being awake 72 hrs straight at the end of last week plus an already extra busy work schedule on top of that plus all the usual home/kids stuff. Why was I not overwhelmed? I checked with my husband who agreed with me that I have been fine & he would not have guessed the timing. So all in all another big thanks to Evorel Sequi. The diazepam I am allowed is lingering in my medicine cupboard as are the zopiclone sleeping tablets I started taking regularly. Seems sleep is in short supply but by choice at the moment to do my job properly, not that awful insomnia that leaves you feeling so poorly. It is so nice to feel steady & I can feel the old capable me returning with extra calmness. I can't explain it but it feels like I should be entitled to a bit of a mad wobble with all that is happening but I am able to break it down & just plod on with no stressing. :sunny: :sunny: B x
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Bev, it is wonderful that you finally feel much better! And yes please continue postint with good news, we all need this cheer ups!
Best
Mila
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Good for you! It's nice to start feeling better .... Don't worry if you have a few wobbles, just keep on enjoying the good days!
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that's all really helpful to me as I've just started these patches this week. I initially felt tingly all over and had slight nausea, but on day 4 this has reduced by 75%. I slept really well last night and I haven't had a flush today or last night. Did you notice any other benefits such as aches and pains reduced, or hair and skin improvements?
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Hi Karin, I am unsure on the nausea as this is the biggest peri/meno symptom for me & I had it anyway. I am sure there are other improvements but the only ones I can be 100% certain about are:
1. I know when my period will be now
2. I bleed for longer & more blood (not an improvement I guess, but better out than in)
3. I definately feel better in the second half of the cycle
4. I don't get the ridiculous pre period symptoms I used to get since I started peri/meno it is now like the old pre period symptoms & much more manageable
5. I do sleep better
I guess taking into account other factors like I work from home, I don't have a stressful commute to work/horrible boss etc etc but my youngest two children are nine yrs old so its ying & yang. I sometimes think we compare ourselves but our lives are all so different. Plus the aches & pains are they age & not meno. I do feel like my legs don't work when I walk downstairs every morning but is that because my day starts off very abruptly & quite frankly at nearly 52 I should technically be taking things slightly easier. I don't know? I planted a lavender hedge on Sunday & feel achy but some nights I can mow the lawns & do all sorts of physical gardening stuff & don't come in until I can no longer see as its 9.30pm. I think I will keep a diary & see if it coincides with the good second half of the cycle.
I hope you carry on feeling better as the month goes on. Let me know how you are getting on with the patches as it will be very interesting to know. Don't get your days wrong too I had a month where I thought Tuesday was Wednesday & I cocked up badly. You would think it was easy to remember twice a week, now is that age or meno? :) B x
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Thanks Bev! Im the same age as you and my symptoms were night sweats , increasingly more flushes in the day, unexplained fibro -type flare ups, some hair loss and a bit of fuzzy thinking, I've a teenager and job that i love but have found work harder because of symptoms getting in the way- which i hate. My hope is to become a little less flushed and more balanced so that I'm able to cope more like i used to, anything else is a bonus ( except weight gain!) will post once i start the second phase. Thank you ;D
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SuzyQ said this:
Physiologically progesterone may oppose estrogens actions on the lining of the womb but it has many other benefits.
Could somebody explain what other benefits Progesterone has on the body?
I've read lots about the benefits of estrogen, but can never find much info on progesterone (despite much internet trawling) - other than it opposes the estrogen. :-\ Does it do you any other good?
Thanks :)
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There was a recent discussion on this - progesterone for me eliminates the dreadful anxiety that I suffer with only estrogen - I take every day! It is known as the calming hormone. It also aids brain function.
Good thread by bev! Very useful for people starting any type of hrt...
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it was really helpful to read bev567901 post on Evorel Sequi patches as I am about to start using them after not getting on with other hrt, herbal stuff or ad's, Im getting awful anxiety at night panic attacks and palpatations and hoping this will help me fingers crossed x
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Hi Bev567901 I just wondered whether you were still using the patches and how you were getting on?