Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: juliekim on January 03, 2014, 02:23:18 PM
-
Hi everyone,
I do hope I am posting on the right bit as I am a newbie but have already posted on the new members bit and this is a new question!
I wanted to ask if anyone has had any side effects of racing pulse from taking Estrogel, or who are hypothyroid and have felt racy and wired after being on Estrogel for a short time. This is because for the last few days I have felt like this, my pulse is 99 today when it is normally around 70. The only time I have felt like this before is when I have supplemented with too much of my thyroid tablet. I can't quite fathom it as estrogel is meant to suppress utilisation of thyroid hormones and not enhance it!!
If anyone has any explanations I would be grateful to hear them! I take a split dose of my Armour Thyroid so am not going to take the afternoon dose to see if my pulse slows down. My only other explanation could be that the mouth splint I am wearing to see if realigning my jaw helps my ME is suddenly having a big effect on the balance of hormones - will have to speak to my lovely alternative dentist about that!! I have been wearing it for 4 months now, so I feel it is more to do with using 14 days of Estrogel.
I am sorry to sound so complicated but thought I would give you the full picture of what is going with me healthwise! If anyone has words of wisdom, I would be grateful to read them!!
Many thanks,
Julie
-
Hi Juliekim
There is an awful of of info about estrogen and its interaction with the thyroid, boring and hard to understand "Papers" so have tried to pick one that's fairly easy to understand.
http://www.hindawi.com/journals/jtr/2011/875125/
I know when I have to much estrogen I feel wired as if I have had too much coffee, so keep my dosage very low.
It might be a good idea to have a word with whoever prescribed your thyroid med.
Here is a good site http://thyroid.about.com/
-
Many many thanks Sliverlady, I will now read and digest!!! :)
Julie xx
-
Hi juliekim. I am on day 19 of estrogel and my pulse has also increased from around 70 to 85 to 95. I have read up and estrogen is meant to reduce this, so am assuming it's just a temporary side effect! At least I'm hoping it is. How are you getting on with the estrogel so far?
-
Hi Suzyq,
Am glad its not just me!!! I have been using 1 pump for the last 14 days, increasing to 1 1/2 pumps today as still getting hot flushes although I don't think quite so many and still no sleep! I am going to now read Silverlady's link to info on estrogen now I can sit on computer for a while! Have you noticed anything apart from the increased pulse?
Julie x
-
Hi, another message for Suzyq,
I have read Silverlady's links - the thryoid one is very high brow!! But I didn't manage to find anything to explain a racing pulse. I did however do an internet search on estradiol side effects and found that one of Estraderm (estradiol patch) side effects was racing pulse and was under the heading of 'stop using immediately and report to doctor'! So am a little concerned about that!!
Do hope Hurdity or some other experienced bod reads this and can offer advice.
Julie x
-
Think you should see your GP estrogen definitely effects thyroid especially if you are on thyroid medication
Female hormones and how they impact your thyroid:
The use of bio-identical hormones. birth control pills, hormone creams, estrogen patches and all hormone potions, lotions and pills all cause problems in the body for thyroid hormones. When a woman has too much of these hormones, thyroid hormone can't enter the cells. If a woman is taking thyroid medication, she may still experience hypothyroid symptoms because the thyroid hormones can't get into the cells to do their job. Excess estrogen can even hamper the conversion of the inactive thyroid hormone T4 to the active thyroid hormone of T3 causing a functional hypothyroid condition. Also, hormone creams accumulate in your body fat which puts an excess burden on the liver to detoxify these excess hormones. All of this puts a stress on the body and your adrenal glands-not to mention the liver.
I don't think any of us on MM are able to give indepth advice about medical problems, but I do think a racing pulse can be a symptom of an overactive thyroid.
I would check with your GP.
-
Thanks Silverlady,
I do agree, racing pulse is a sign of being hyperthyroid and I am hypothyroid, but the fact you have felt racy on too much Estrogel and Suzyq is also feeling racy seem to suggest that Estrogel does produce this symptom. Please could you tell me how much estrogen you are on and how much made you feel racy.
I am having a blood done next week to check thyroid levels, so that will be a good thing!
I really don't feel great, my pulse has come down to 85, my blood pressure is fine, but I still feel racy and wired in my chest. I don't know whether to use the Estrogel tomorrow morning or not!! :-\
Julie x
-
I use a lowest dose patch, but when I used Arodiol nasal spray estrogen (discontinued now) it happened to me together with palpitations, also when I increased my patch but that was a few years ago.
I can't advise as to whether you should keep using your estrogel but I know there are some women on the forum who take medication for the thyroid, hopefully they will see your post.
Perhaps if you don't use tomorrows dose, you can gauge how you feel, or try putting half a dose on.
Please try not to get too stressed juliekim. Is there chance you can get an appointment at your surgery or even speak to the nurse.
-
Thank you so much Silverlady, I will make appt Monday if I am unable to speak to someone tomorrow.
Saying that, I feel the racy chest is calming. I now recall I had the same thing happen when I took a preparation that had a small amount of dhea and pregnenalone for adrenal fatigue a few years ago. It was fine to begin with and after about 4 weeks I had the same symptoms. I have got a feeling it has something to do with my fatigue and the imbalances there and not absorbing at cell level, so have too much in my blood swimming around and not being absorbed and causing a reaction. I think I will take your advice and use half a pump tomorrow as my hot flushes have definitely been better today! :) -so that is one very good thing!!
Julie xx
-
I take thyroid medication for a hypothyroid and have been on this plus the gel for years, have never had this problem and am very prone to palpitations, anxiety, panic attacks etc, I highly doubt that it is related to the gel, in fact, when I ran low on my gel was when I started getting the racing pulse as one of the symptoms of meno and low oestrogen is palpitations. I would check your levels of thyroxine, perhaps your dosage there needs adjusting, have a blood test and see what your TSH etc looks like before you start thinking that it could be the gel, it really should not cause this side effect, I guess, that, anything is possible, but I would think that it is more to do with your thyroid gland.
-
Thanks Cassie, I am having a blood test next week so that will be useful!
Unfortunately, because I have chronic fatigue/ME which really is adrenal fatigue in my case, it complicates my thyroid problem as taking thyroid meds has never got me back to 'normal'. I seem to have gone rather sensitive to lots of medications since having this stupid condition :(
The racy symptom is definitely calming right down tonight :)
I am meant to be having my first every Utrogestan Sunday night, so that will be interesting!!!!
Thank you again,
Julie x
-
Now, strangely enough, that is something that makes me, not as much racy, but turns me into an insomniac for 12 days and yes, I guess, does make me feel a bit hyper, most strange, as, Utrogestan, is supposed to have a calming effect, but as mentioned before, I seem to be one of those people that it has the opposite effect on, am sure that it will make you feel wonderfully calm though, all the best, and let us know how your blood test goes.
-
Hi juliekim.
I think mine was worse just after I started (also at 1 pump) and then after when I upped it to 1 and a half pumps. It then calmed down for a few days but to be honest too freaked out to check it lately as I tend to stress about small things! Not sure if it is too little estrogen or maybe just getting used to extra. For the last couple of days I am having little chest spasms which are really freaking me out.again, maybe too little estrogen and maybe the gel. I did used to have bad palpitations and racing heart before starting estrogen so maybe they are just breakthrough symptoms. I don't know! Just about ready to ring doctors and ask if I should stop taking the stuff or not!! Anybody else had is?
-
Oh I also did have leg cramps initially, but they stopped after a couple of days. I started taking magnesium as they are supposed to help with this! I tried not to worry about the fast pulse as anything under 100 is 'normal' and tbh I just sort of figured that it was likely breakthrough flushes although less severe
-
Thanks Cassie, will let you know how I get on!!
And Suzyq, I think we just need to go slowly and see how things go! And maybe you should speak with your GP about your symptoms to check them out. I imagine some people are more sensitive to adding hormones into the body than others and we just fall into that category!!
Would you let me know how you are in a few days, so we can compare?
Thank you!!
Julie xx
-
Hi juliekim. I think you're right. I had a stress EKG in feb and all was good and they are not so much pain as muscle spasms on both sides of my chest! I am overall so much better on the gel so really would be reluctant to stop it. Please keep me posted on how you're doing also!
-
Hi,
Suzyq, I am definitely feeling soooo much better today!! I didn't take my thryoid meds yesterday afternoon and have taken slightly less today just to be on the safe side. I am a little tired today but did stay up late reading a book on Menopause types!!! I am slightly addicted to finding out as much info as I can at the mo!!!
I also only took half a pump of Estrogel today again just to be on the safe side. And I am delighted to say that I have no racy or wired feeling in my chest or racy pulse!!! So maybe its a little like an orchestra with the hormones being the instruments! They need some fine tuning before they sing in harmony!!! ;D
Do hope you are feeling OK today
Julie x
-
Funnily enough I am feeling better too. Woke up this morning not feeling good. Eventually upped my dose to 2 pumps and after a couple of hours of wired feeling, feel fab! No anxiety etc, just normal and a good mood. Long may it continue for both of us
-
Same here!! Funnily enough, I have used one full pump again today and have a slightly wired feeling, but take comfort from yours going off after a few hours. I am not going to worry about it as I think some of us are just more sensitive. so fingers crossed you and I will settle down quickly on our Estrogel!!
Julie x
-
Hi Julie
Yes I think it just takes time for us to get used to any new hormones. But will be worth it in the long run
-
juliekim - this quote from a paper on female hormones and thyroid actually implies the opposite effect. ie "excess estrogen can... hamper.... causing a functional hypothyroid condition". In other words excess oestrogen can produce the opposite to a racing pulse - and would slow it down. Therefore your racing pulse cannot be due to inhibition of the conversion of T4 to T3.
The interaction is clearly complex - and I have only read a tiny bit about it. All I would say is that oestrogen has multiple roles and effects on the body and I agree, will take a while to acclimatise to new external sources of oestrogen. Regarding the thyroid medication - I agree with the others best to keep in touch with your doctor in case the thyroid medication needs reviewing once you are settled on your new regime and if you change the dosage too.
I am sure your doctor would give you the means to monitor your blood pressure if you are concerned about this too, since starting HRT - and of course mention anything else you are worried about.
Hurdity x
Female hormones and how they impact your thyroid:
The use of bio-identical hormones. birth control pills, hormone creams, estrogen patches and all hormone potions, lotions and pills all cause problems in the body for thyroid hormones. When a woman has too much of these hormones, thyroid hormone can't enter the cells. If a woman is taking thyroid medication, she may still experience hypothyroid symptoms because the thyroid hormones can't get into the cells to do their job. Excess estrogen can even hamper the conversion of the inactive thyroid hormone T4 to the active thyroid hormone of T3 causing a functional hypothyroid condition. Also, hormone creams accumulate in your body fat which puts an excess burden on the liver to detoxify these excess hormones. All of this puts a stress on the body and your adrenal glands-not to mention the liver.
I don't think any of us on MM are able to give indepth advice about medical problems, but I do think a racing pulse can be a symptom of an overactive thyroid.
-
Thank you Hurdity,
I was aware that estrogen hampers and progesterone enhances utilisation of thyroid hormones. It is complicated as symptoms are the same for different conditions especially as my ME (which I think is just adrenal fatigue along with hypothyroidism) affects the way I react to hormones/drugs making me more sensitive. I did reduce my thryoid meds for one day and I knew a day later it definately wasn't that as I had hypo symptoms. A blood test this week will help matters and you are right, I will need to keep an eye on my thryoid when taking estrogen. Hopefully the progesterone will even things out on that front. It helps to know that Suzyq and also Silverlady in the past have had a racy feel and I just need to take it slow. I am still getting hot flushes (although not so bad) on 1 pump but until the racy feel completely goes, I will not increase.
Thanks again Hurdity, I really do appreciate your input on any of my posts!!
Julie x
-
Oops forgot to mention that re the blood pressure - I have a machine at home I can use as I have low blood pressure and needed to monitor things when first on Armour Thyroid. It is v useful to check pulse too and only use ever use it now if I feel weird! Lol!
x
-
Hi juliekim
2nd day on two pumps and no wired feeling! Has yours settled down yet?
-
Hi Suzyq,
Sorry for not replying sooner, have been working last two days! Am so glad to hear it! Today was the first day I haven't felt so wired! :) Still feeling a tiny bit though. Still on one pump and getting only 1 or 2 hot flushes in the day, but still get some at night, so still sleeping badly :( Will try and go up a little in a few days. Started Utrogestan 2 days ago so my body is having to get used to a lot! Do feel I am heading in the right direction!!
Julie x
-
Hi juliekim
Good for you! I know it's a slow process. I have changed to patches today as I seemed to be getting too many 'crashes' on the gel, where it just seemed to be wearing off. Fingers crossed that this works. How are you getting on with the progesterone part?
-
Hi Suzyq,
That's interesting about 'crashes' on the gel. I have had 2 hot flushes again today although both in the morning this time (I use the gel first thing in morning). I still felt slight wired first thing and still know my body is getting used to the whole thing! Have only used the Utrogestan for 4 nights and all seems well at the moment, I am using it intravaginally and was hoping it would have a little sedating effect even though I know the oral route is better for that, but it doesn't at the moment. I am still waking with hot flushes, but wonder if I need to increase Estrogel to stop them completely. Even as I am typing this to you I am aware of a slightly wired feeling in my chest although I don't notice it if I don't think about it now!
Am so pleased your racy feeling has settled down, I would be interested to know how you get on changing to a patch!
Julie x
-
Don't worry Suzq, have just seen your new post re changing to Estrodot so will keep reading that!
Julie x
-
Er off the estradot already! Literally thought I was gonna die. Are you still only using 1 pump? If you are still getting symptoms I would think about increasing maybe. Thinking back I used to get that funny feeling in chest before I was on hrt, so perhaps rather than being a sign of too much, it could be a sign of too little. Just a thought.
I am restarting estrogel tomorrow. And will maybe split my dose to try to even out the crashes. I'm seeing my specialist again in February where he will check my levels but from my reaction to the patch today, think I am maybe not absorbing as much estrogen from the gel as he thought I would be.
He is a big fan of taking progesterone orally as he says you get a great nights sleep with it, but I haven't tried that yet!
-
Hi Suzyq,
Am sorry you had a horrid day on Estradot. :( I have increased my Estrogel from yesterday to a pump and a tiny bit more. I am still feeling slight wired in the chest and pulse too high, but I think in my case its my body not absorbing enough into the cells as I have this before with other hormone preparations taken for my adrenal fatigue. But the wired is not as bad as when I first posted, its more in the background if you know what I mean. Re the progesterone, I am like a zombie today!! Very heavy headed! So I think using utrogestan intravaginally does affect you systemically - well in my case it does!
Good luck going back on Estrogel - I think you have to give your body time to settle on the dosage possibly.
Julie x
-
Its almost certain that the wired feeling is from too little as opposed to too much estrogen, I would give it a chance to kick in, the gel is great, how much are you using Suzy?
-
Hi Cassie I'm on 2 pumps but the problem I have is that in the morning I'm having to wait 2 hours for it to kick in! Apart from that it seems good. How about you?
Juliekim - perhaps you are using too much progesterone? Are you taking 200mgs or 100? I am only using 100 ATM as using vaginally so expect more to be absorbed via that route.
Am so happy to be back on gel after nightmare of a day yesterday!
-
Fingers crossed you will settle down on Estrogel!!
Re the progesterone - I think 200mg which is what I am using is too much considering I am only using one pump of Estrogel. Hurdity mentioned in another post about how she thinks 200mg is a lot to take if only using 1 pump of Estrogel. Do feel so groggy tonight. Not sure if I want to use it tonight!!!
Julie x
-
Don't think it will do you any harm to miss one night, or at the very least only use 100mg. It seems like such a delicate balancing act, especially if, like me, you are still in peri, with our own hormones chipping in every now and again!
-
Yes I might pierce to outer shell and squeeze some of the progesterone and peanut oil out as I only have 200mg tabs.
I will get there in the end!
Julie x
-
Wow that sounds very complicated!! Maybe just miss tonight and ask your pharmacy to replace with 2 packs of 100mg. I don't know if they will do that but here in canada, they will pretty much do whatever you ask them to so that's nice.... Of course we can't find a family doctor for love nor money!
-
Im on one and half pumps per day that works well for me. When I cut back though I felt awful, very wired up and not good at all. How many days per month are you using the Utro 100mg? I use for 12 days per month, vaginally, supposed to be 200mg but I found them too heavy so cut back to the 100mg. Perhaps if you use the gel @ night, it will be better? I found with messing with my Utro and skipping a day, I got breakthrough bleeding so just watch for that Juliekim, as Suzy says, can the pharmacy not rather give you 2 pkts of 100mg, that will be much easier to get the correct dosage?
-
I'm using for 14 days. Specialist said everyday but I am just ignoring that cos I know it's wrong! I think eventually I may just need a little bit extra, but giving it a while first to see if it improves
-
I don't know if the pharmacy in the uk will change 200mg for 100mg as I know he had to order them in. I could ask. I think I will use a reduced amount tonight and speak to pharmacy tomorrow, but I have a feeling he will tell me to contact my doctor and get a new prescription which I will do on Monday.