Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: CLKD on July 18, 2013, 10:44:41 AM
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serotonin syndrome - can you explain this further? Do you mean 2 different types of anti-depressant medication at the same time and they did what exactly?
I have had several types of AD, some have to be weaned off before beginning a different sort; others can over-lap. :-\
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Here you go... good old Google... http://www.patient.co.uk/doctor/Serotonin-Syndrome.htm
Taz x
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:thankyou: so it is like many drugs, which can have the opposite effect to what they are designed for. My neighbour had a bad reaction to Propranalol ::) ..........
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Hi, sorry my replies go up later as I'm in Oz. My own doc gave me Endep which I tolerated. Then I was referred to back pain specialist (later forced to retire due to incompetence) and he gave me another prescription for an antidepressant which he said I could take with Endep. I was so ill and had no idea what was wrong until they whisked me off to hospital. I couldn't feel my left arm/face. It imitated a stroke. So now I can't tolerate any antidepressants. I was so terrified at the time. Now I double check all meds to see if they can cause similar reactions. It has made me so distrustful of doctors.
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I bet that was a terrifying experience :o - bad enough feeling poorly without medication making symtpoms worse, or causing added problems >:(
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Thank you, CLKD for your sympathy. It was terrifying especially when you can die from it, but it has made me realize that doctors aren't Gods and I double check every medication now :)
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I usually check medication. But when I was very depressed I was given the wrong drug at the wrong doseage ::) ...... it was only by chance that I even checked the packet ......... >:(
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That is so easy to do, CLKD! When you are in that dark hole it is so easy to take what the 'experts' give you and hope all is well. Mind you, when I was finally given HRT, I threw the instructions in the bin! I couldn't go on without it! To heck with the consequences! Laughed at someone who said they would have taken poison to help relieve the symptoms of menopause. I felt the same way! Hope all is well with you now. Antidepressants are great at relieving depression when it's bad but as a counsellor, I know that depression and anxiety are symptoms of a problem that 'needs' to be examined. As I can no longer take them, I usually sit with my feelings and write/talk about them with someone I trust. That's why this forum is so good. Lots of support from others who are going through the same things.
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I know that depression and anxiety are symptoms of a problem that 'needs' to be examined
Not always. There are many types of depression: organic, which many 'experts' will not acknowledge but which mine is the basis of; clinical - where people are unable to alter where they are currently; manic, with highs and lows which can be controlled with medication. After 5 different types of AD in the 1990s - with horrendous side effects; I was able eventually to find a medication which helped for 8 years: along with Valium on an as-necessary basis: before it pooped out, then it was a bit hit and miss for a few months. My phobia caused more depression because the Doctors would not acknowledge what a life controlling issue phobias are. :'(
Anxiety can be caused by many issues too. Been there, done that >:( :-\ <sigh>
I had sessions with one Counsellor - I could tell her which book she was quoting and from which page >:( - because remedies are written down doesn't make them work - otherwise you and others would be out of a job ;)
'Some' say that depression is a learnt syndrome - rubbish ....... one can feel constantly sad if others around are in a sad state, but depression as an illness cannot be learned. It can be mimicked, if depression has been used by an adult in order to gain control, but never learned.
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Hi CLKD, you are absolutely right in saying that clinical depression needs medication i.e.; bipolar and it doesn't help if that's not acknowledged. I was depressed after the sudden death of my first husband. That's a natural reaction and counselling helped me. I was agoraphobic for a year, so I know how controlling phobias are. Panic attacks saw me hiding under the bed of all places! I also had 5 kids to look after which made me seek help and now I am fine, except for the menopause. I know that there are some counsellors who shouldn't be let loose on the public but some are really good, if they try to find a solution, collaboratively with you and not reduce you to 'a problem'. Depression isn't learned behaviour but a sign of what's happening in your life. I work in conjunction with clients to achieve the best possible outcome for them. I really would be appalled if I were to cause offence to you. Having gone through what I have, hopefully allows me to feel empathy with clients, not sympathy. There are lots of therapies out there, it's about finding the right fit for you. Clinical depression and anxiety are horrible and real. It takes a strong woman like yourself, to keep searching for some relief, and not take nonsense from doctors who won't understand.
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:thankyou: you and I are reading from the same book ;)
What a shock for you! at any age and in any circumstance. Having to deal with your feelings plus tying up loose ends, with five children .......... :medal: ......... depression 'runs' in both sides of my family so I don't have a chocolate fireguard's chance of not being affected ::). I have a loving husband and a Very Good GP! However, my Mother .......... >:(
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At least you have a loving husband and a good GP (I have one of them and it's not my husband!) and that makes a huge difference. Don't get me started on mothers! Oh, ok, I will ::) I had to go into hospital before her birthday and as she lives in the Uk I sent a bouquet of beautiful flowers to her through interflora.. I had the procedure done on her b'day and was so exhausted I went straight to bed. I had forgotten to ring her but surely she could understand that with my being ill and the time difference? Oh no, the world and his wife now knows that I "ruined" her b'day. She went on about it so much that my daughter became angry with her. So, CLKD, what's your mother like?
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Narsacisstic ....... when I told her in the 1990s that I had medication for depression I got "Don't lead your husband a dance like your Father led me" .......... :'( :-\
I never told her of my health issues after that. DH rang her when my appendix had been removed to say 'no 1 daughter is in hospital' and she sent the obligatory flower arrangement. When I had breast disease I didn't tell her until 4 months after surgery and prognosis were sorted. It's not even as though she thinks about what she is about to say, it's instant >:(
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Isn't it awful CLKD, when we aren't truly loved and accepted by our own parents? You have gone through so much and if you are anything like me, you put a brave face on, even though you'd love it to change. I accept that I won't have the relationship with my mother that I have with my own girls, but it's hard. My mother was brought up to worship the ground that men walk on and girls were there to do the chores. She adores my sons but not my girls (3 of each) so it's pretty evident that she regards my feminist stance as unnatural. What is your mother's background?
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I also have a narsacisstic mother. There are four of us and I am the eldest. The last 3 years I've been going through a horrible meno journey and would have loved to be able to talk to her about it all. Very thankful for all the info And advice I've had on this site.
My daughter gets married next Saturday and am very worried about my mother playing up on the day and ruining it.
Lesley x
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Hi Lesley, I am sure that your Mum may try to do something as it's not her that's getting the attention but here's hoping she will rein herself in. You enjoy this special day and be the beautiful mother of the bride! If by chance your mum does say/do something, ignore her even if it's hard to do it. Wishing you a great day for next Saturday!
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Many thanks Rose, will keep my fingers crossed.
Lesley x
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Lesley - have you talked your worries through with your daughter? Make sure that she is aware how Granny might be ..... of course their dynamics may be different. Your Mum may 'behave' on the day but it's the not knowing ........ is she worse or better in public?
Mine is an angel in public ::)
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I have talked to my daughter, and she has seen my mum in action so she knows what she is capable of. However, like your mum, she usually puts on a marvellous show in front of strangers.
Is your mum very manipulative? Mine plays all sorts of games with her four children.
Lesley x
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The term "narcissistic" is bandied around sometimes and can lose it's full meaning. It's only when you have been involved with one, either through a parent or a lover/partner, that the full horror is felt. There is a good description on this forum of a narcissistic mother http://www.psychforums.com/narcissistic-personality/topic48207.html
Taz x
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Found that very interesting and most of it applied to my situation. It's very hard to get your head round sometimes. My mums behaviour has always been quite cleverly hidden until recent years where she has had "explosions of temper" in front of other members of the family.
Thank you for article Taz.
Lesley
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Oh yes. I am the eldest and it was always 'don't tell your sister' .......... or 'don't let your Dad know' and sadly we blamed Dad for many issues - when she took up with another man after Dad died we could see history repeating itself >:( ; and as I wasn't emotionally attached this time it all became clear :-\
I have an ex-friend who showed her true colours about 2 years ago .......... there were signs but I didn't twigg until certain issues happened then it became clear :-\
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The sad thing is that true narcissism can not be changed. No matter how much you want the person to be a normal, loving parent or lover it just wont happen. It's a bit like thinking you can get a paraplegic to climb the stairs just by explaining to them what they need to do - it's just not possible.
Taz x
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That's so true Taz, have had any conversations with my mum hoping that things may change but it never has.
Lesley x
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The affected person will rarely believe that they have a problem. To them what they do or say is 'normal'. I could write a book!
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I could be your co author CLKD.
It would be nice just to have a mum.
Honeyb
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It's part of the "condition" that they can't see that they are different from others. This is the sad part - there is no way of ever changing the pattern and so they are always doomed to spend their lives upsetting others and always feeling that the world is out to get them.
Taz
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Mine would be upset if she thought that anyone thought she wasn't as she thinks she is :-\ - sadly my sister shows similar tendancies :o
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My mother does a wonderful Queen Mother impression.
I have actually felt my jaw drop. She does not often show her true colours. I don't think she is a complete narcissist but definitely has leanings towards.
I actually blame my dad. She was so terribly spoiled and did not know any other way existed. She feels hard done by if she is not the centre of attention.
It has got worse as she becomes less able and more dependent.
I think the thing that bothers me the most is that if something is wrong with me or one of my family is that she is more concerned about how it will affect her.
Actually it really hurts......
Honeyb
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Honeyb that's exactly how my mum is. My brother had a heart attack and instead of being concerned about him she took herself off to the doctors to see if her heart was ok. She didn't go to visit him as she was having a bad week x
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It's important that you don't take these "slights" personally. It is just the way the person is wired and although it can be incredibly hurtful to have someone who should be there for you being more concerned about how the situation will affect them it is just the way they are made. That sounds a bit simplistic but they are not able to do things any differently - well - that's my understanding anyway.
Taz x
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Not so easy to do though.
I don't remember her being like this when I was young but perhaps I just did not notice.
The really sad thing for me is that when she has (she is 91) passed away I am really afraid I will just remember how she was in her declining years. I am also afraid that I will get to be that way.
Honeyb
X
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If you don't remember her being like this then it is probably more age-related than anything else Honeybun. She would have acted in a self-obsessed way for the whole of your life. I think I have said before that a lot of what is posted about elderly parents seems to be to do with ageing and becoming more dependent on others rather than personality disordeers. We hate being dependent at any age and I noticed with my own parents that as they began to feel they were losing control on their lives - not being able to drive as far as they wanted, needing help with household and garden chores they had always done themselves for instance - then they became more petulant and demanding and very stubborn. Also, as my mum got into her mid-eighties she found it difficult to see that I did have another life and other family members who still needed me.
Maybe your mum is not a narcissist in the true sense of the word but is now showing those traits because of changes due to old age? I don't know if you read this part from the article I posted before?
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Older narcissistic mothers often use the natural limitations of aging to manipulate dramas, often by neglecting their health or by doing things they know will make them ill. Sometimes they will do this by addictions to alcohol or drugs or other obsessions. This gives them the opportunity to cash in on the investment they made when they trained you to wait on them as a child. Then they call you (or better still, get the neighbor or the nursing home administrator to call you) demanding your immediate attendance. You are to rush to her side, pat her hand, weep over her pain and listen sympathetically to her unending complaints about how hard and awful it is. (“Never get old!â€) It's almost never the case that you can actually do anything useful, and the causes of her disability may have been completely avoidable, but you've been put in an extremely difficult position. If you don't provide the audience and attention she's manipulating to get, you look extremely bad to everyone else and may even have legal culpability. (Narcissistic behaviors commonly accompany Alzheimer's disease, so this behavior may also occur in perfectly normal mothers as they age. But, in narcissistic mothers, it is a given.)"
Taz x
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Unfortunately my mum has been like it all her life. We didn't see both sides of our family as she had fallen out with them all. Friends she has made only last a little while and then we are told an odd story of why she won't be seeing them again. It's never been her fault and everyone is put in a box as evil. After never having seen my grandparents I made contact with my only living grandmother, boy was I in trouble when she found out.
However if I introduce my mum to a friend she comes across as being lovely which is then hard to explain our situation.
Lesley x
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I agree, a lot of it is to do with the aging process but my mother has always been difficult.
I have watched for years her attempts to manipulate her family. She was very controlling when I was younger.
I was told the other day that I used to be such a placid girl and yes I was. She now can't be sure I will do everything she wants and therein lies the problem.
I just got fed up with being told and not asked and so began to say no to somethings.
It does not go down well and as my sister is inclined to try and boss me too it has become a bit of an issue. I no longer say how high when they say jump.
I know they all blame the changes in me on meno but I just had had enough.
Honeyb
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I don't blame you for standing your ground Honeybun. I just thought that by saying you didn't notice it when you/she was younger meant that she was not controlling and difficult in the past.
When I was looking after my mum and dad I managed to cut my work down to one day a week and that one day saved my sanity because for those few hours I was "me" and not someone's mum or daughter. You can easily be dragged down and lose yourself so you do need to stand firm and try to only do the hours you are paid for - it's almost like you need a contract written down - which you would have if you were not her daughter but an outside carer.
Taz x
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My Mum was always that way inclined although as a child, one doesn't notice. It becomes normal. It was only after Dad died and she took up with another man that I could see the bad habits returning. For 17 months after he died we had an almost 'normal' Mum, because she relied on us to 'do' for her - sort money, take her places, get the house maintained - then this other man arrived on the scene and it all began again. <sigh>.