Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => Other Health Discussion => Topic started by: panda762 on July 17, 2013, 04:19:38 PM
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Has anyone had keyhole surgery for frozen shoulder?
I got frozen shoulder (came on for no reason) September 2012 and I saw a musculoskeletal consultant. He diagnosed frozen shoulder, said if I did nothing it'd be back to 'normal' within 3 years, gave me 2 cortizone injections (which failed to work) and sent me for physio and acupuncture. I asked about an xray and he said there was no need. After the 2nd failed jab I asked about surgery and he reluctantly referred me to a surgeon after telling me I'm unlikely to get a surgeon to agree to operate as I have 'some' movement.
The physio and acupuncture has helped me to get some mobility back; I can raise my arm above my head and out to the side, but there's no way it'll go behind my back (right arm will touch my bra strap). Can't pull my trousers up properly or swim front crawl etc.
Saw a surgeon this morning who said if I do nothing my left arm will never be as mobile as my right! :o
He said there's 4 options: cortizone (done that), physio (doing that) acupuncture (doing that) and surgery. He said even with sucessful surgery my left arm will never be as good as my right but it'd potentially be far more mobile than if I just use physio and acupuncture. I signed operation consent forms and had MRSA swabs, but am still not sure whether or not to go ahead...
He was shocked I'd not had any xrays so sent me off for those.
He did warn me the shoulder would be painful afterwards and that lots of physio post-op would be the key to maximise mobility. I asked about work and he suggested 2 weeks off (clerical work). I asked about incision sites and he said the camera goes in the back of the shoulder and tools go in the right (2 cuts).
I shall talk to my physiotherapist about it but it seems I'm getting conflicting opinions (musculoskeletal guy said I'd get my movement back in 2-3 years if I do nothing but surgeon said I'll never get full movement back).
I'd just like to hear from anyone who's had this keyhole surgery (day surgery / general anaesthetic) to hear their experiences. I'm worried it'll make things worse (scar issue) and that if I go ahead I may regret it. However, I'm also worried if I don't take this opportunity I'll be lumbered with a locked arm for the rest of my life.... :-\
x
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I did have a frozen shoulder and it did resolve in less than three years. It's my left arm and it is not as mobile as my right but it's not painful anymore.
I really think you need to speak to others who have had this done and I don't think there is anyone on the forum.
It's a big decision to make as you may be no better off than if you wait.
Maybe I am wrong and there is someone on the forum who can help.
Honeyb
X
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Thanks honeybun,
It seems whoever I speak to thinks their way is best.
The musculoskeletal chap said cortizone would probably work (it didn't) and then physio / acupuncture (helps but not with joint rotation).
The surgeon says surgery is best, and what's the betting my physiotherapist will say physio is best :-\
I shall wait and see what the xrays say and speak with my GP.
Obviously I'm not keen on surgery but I'm also not happy with being unable to rotate my left arm - and I'm now worried that the ligaments and muscles are so shrunken after not being used since September they'll never get any better.
He did say it's not to do with pain relief but retaining / regaining movement.
It's tempting...............but I've had surgeries in the past that didn't go well and knowing MY luck I'll be in the 5% (?) of people who end up worse off. However, I don't want to find out in 2+ years time my arm is no better and I've missed my opportunity to have it put right....
Decisions, decisions....
x
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Hmm cautionary tale... I had a frozen shoulder 5 years ago, it got to stage I could hardly move it so couldn't do anything for myself.
I had a cortisone injection which took away the pain but still couldn't move it... had NHS physio which did absolutely nothing for it :( was referred back to GP who referred me to surgeons at hospital who said oh you need an op to sort that out.
I happened to be talking about it one night in the pub to my friends and this lady said you need to see this marvellous physio, he sorted my shoulder out... Long story short, I thought nothing to lose went to see the private physio who said is muscular not joint, he had 'cured' it within 6 weeks although it did take a while longer to get muscle tone back.
It may be worth seeking out a specialist physio and getting them to have a look before you commit to an operation...
Smudgesmum xx
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Hi Smudgesmum,
Thanks for the reply :)
I'm hoping to get some sort of help from the xray results (musculoskeletal guy said there was no point in an xray or MRI but the surgeon was shocked I hadn't had it done!)
The musculo guy, the physio and the surgeon have all tried to move the joint so I can reach behind me but none of them could get any movement from it - which is a worry. It's locked solid.
I CAN get my arm up over my head and out to the side, but not twist the joint (physio and acupuncture have given me that much mobility but can't crack the rotation issue).
I don't have the funds for private treatment (spent it all on private acupuncture for lower back pain a while ago - which made no difference) so I'm stuck with whatever / whoever the jolly old NHS can offer :(
x
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Panda, I had this awful condition too. A year on, have nearly all movement in the arm back, but still occasional pains...but none of those awful spasms. Just wanted to say if no one else here has any specific advise on the actual surgery, you might find help on the patient.co.uk forums. there are quite a lot of patient stories on the adhesive capsulitis forum.
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Hi sweet pea,
Thank you for the reply :)
Did your arm completely lock so you couldn't reach behind you?
I shall check out that forum you suggest x
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Panda - yes, it was almost like it was paralysed. It was completely 'locked' and it was an effort to move in in any direction - but I could not move it behind my back at all ( I have heard of people with two at the same time...how do they manage to 'clean up' after the loo??? :o)
I had problems with everything. Could not properly wash or dry my hair, shave my 'pits', could not pull up trousers, I had to pull tops off over my head with one arm. I got stuck in a changing room once in agony trying to get out of a dress! My shoulder was completely frozen - if I tried to fold my arms or put my hands on my hips I couldn't, and my arm seemed to contort, it was horrible. I even had a problem with my shoulder blade for a while - my husband looked at me one morning when we were on holiday in October and said I looked like I had a hunchback!! It wasn't that bad - looked worse with nothing on lol, but I thought, what next. When I got home and went to the The GP told me it was the scapula being pushed out by the muscles in the shoulder which were under stress - not uncommon with frozen shoulder. She had to push it back in..didn't hurt, but I couldn't bear anyone near my shoulder and used to walk around holding my arm in front of me all the time, as I was terrified someone would bump into me and jar my arm causing that terrible spasm pain. I've never, ever felt pain like those spasms.
Please take heart...I was told this condition IS self limiting, and it will resolve. I didn't believe it at the time as my shoulder was SO bad, but I am now almost completely recovered. It started June 2012, was at its very worse October to Christmas, and started to noticably get better in March 2013. I thought about getting it manipulated under anaesthetic - but in the end I left it and was lucky enough it was only a year.
x
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I had a frozen shoulder a few years ago. I was told that there was no point having physio because it would do nothing to help.
Luckily the injection did take the pain away but it was a whole year before I regained movement in my arm.
Very very painful think to have :(
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Sweet Pea,
The thought of both arms locked is hideous :(
Shaving pits and pulling up trousers is a pain (literally). I have long hair and washing it takes an age (left side never feels properly clean). All my tops have a stretched right sleeve/armhole. You were brave to attempt a dress in a changing room (I wouldn't dare). I can totally relate to what you went through.
On holiday it was frustrating not to be able to do front crawl in the pool (just breast-stroke).
Hands on hips looks lop-sided as I can't manage it with my left arm.
It's amazing the things you take for granted...
Those jolts are stomach-churningly painful. Grabbed a rail on a bus the other day to steady myself after the driver braked hard as he pulled up at the bus stop.... I couldn't move for several seconds and the people behind me were pushing and shoving.
I'll have a chat with my GP once she gets the xrays through and I shall also speak to my physio, but after reading some posts on a patient forum I'm fairly sure I shall cancel the operation.
Evenstar, it does seem a very common problem. I've actually got a bit of movement back using physio (jabs did nothing to help) and I think that mentally it does me some good just believing I'm helping myself.
I worry that I shall get it in the other arm at some point (apparently if you've had it once you're more likely to get it again) but I will have to cross that bridge when I come to it.
Thank you for all the replies :) xx
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Hi there,
I had keyhole surgery for rota cuff problems in my shoulder, under general anesthetic, they basically went into the joint and make the space bigger, I did develop a frozen shoulder after the surgery, but they resolved that with another procedure which involved pumping air between the joint to release it. I had to have this done twice as it returned to a frozen shoulder after a few months, but after the second release it has been much better, no pain.
I have multiple sclerosis so am very weak on my left side so it did take along time to regain muscle tone.
I am surprised that they are operating for a frozen shoulder, when they have not tried a capsular release (puffing air into the joint), both my brother and I have had this done and it did cure the frozen shoulder.
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Hi Tink,
Thanks for the reply.
Sounds like you've had a dreadful time of it :(
Never heard of the air-puffing thing! Not sure if our NHS would do it (local hospital not exactly on the 'best' list right now!!)
The more I look into it the more I'm inclined to cancel the surgery and hope that physio and acupuncture helps.
x
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Hi Panda
I had a frozen shoulder about 10 years ago, because of a bleeding/clotting disorder I can't have anti inflam tablets, and can't have intra muscular injections :( , I had got to the stage where I couldn't even lift it high enough to put my hair in a band. Eventually I was sent for physio, it took about 6 months, but was absolutly brilliant, you would never know I'd had it now. The physio did tell me that it's not actually a frozen shoulder, it's because we've had some kind of injry to it which causes pain, we stop using it, this in turn causes the muscle to atrophy, which in turn leads to loss of movement, so it's a matter of building up the muscle again, I can't see how surgery would help with this, in fact would it not make it worse ???
I have recently started having troubles with my other shoulder, I don't think it's a frozen shoulder this time, but a problem with my ostio arthritis, but the doctor has reffered me for physio right away (different doc) so hopefully any probs can be nipped in the bud.
Good luck in what you decide and let us know how it goes xx
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Hi Panda, I had this too, I caused mine by falling down the stairs (right hand turn half way down) and tried to save myself by grabbing the centre corner post, ending up hanging by my arm while the rest of me was out straight down the lower part of the staircase. It hurt that day, but it got so much worse over the next few days. Frozen shoulder was diagnosed and cortisone injections advised, but I' needle phobic and wouldn't do it. Was told it could be a year to get right, 2 if I was unlucky. Hubby had to dress me, undress me, help me brush my hair, you name it I couldn't do it. I could put my arm out straight in front but couldn't lift it at all. What I found helped (although it hurt at first) was this... stand in the shower with the warm water running on the affected shoulder, stand (if there's room) arms length away from the wall. Put you hand flat on the wall and lean slightly against it, now, keeping your hand where it is, squat down slightly, you will feel a pull under your arm and along it, and as I said, it will hurt a bit, they key thing is to only do it gently, so it doesn't hurt too much. Now stand up gently, and do it again, I found about 5 times was as much as I could do to start with, after doing this for a few mornings you'll find you can place your hand on the wall a little higher, and eventually, you'll have your hand almost above head height. With this comes more movement in other directions, although I must say some days getting my hand up my back for a good scratch is still impossible. Doing these exercises mine had righted itself in almost exactly a year. Like I say though, still get the odd stiff day. Hope this helps... (while it was bad I used to tuck my thumb in the jeans belt loop or the waistband on the opposite side to my bad arm and it worked like having my arm in a sling, it was just a little bit of support)
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Thanks for the replies joyce21 and Witches Cat :)
Joyce21 I'm now almost convinced surgery would make it worse (scar tissue).
I was told if you have frozen shoulder once you're more likely to get it again in the future :(
Witches Cat thanks for the exercise advice :)
I'm finding that doing stretching exercises out in the garden during this heatwave is helping (long may the sunshine last!!) Your injury sounds awful :( Must admit on my bad days I rest my arm on my meno-belly ::)
xx
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panda...think I have said this before, but also try throwing a long scarf over the top of a door, then using it like a pulley, with your good arm pulling up the bad arm. Don't push yourself through pain though. Indeed, I was doing this one day when I literally felt something 'give' and within days I had about six inches of movement back. (I drew a line in eyebrow pencil on a door frame where my hand reached when I stood side on....it went up and up until finally I can now get it over my head again.)
Tried accupuncture which didn't help me...but Bowen Therapy definitely did. Its a strange, gentle therapy which uses tiny movements and works on the fascia (that thin membrane surrounding the tendons) but if you find a good therapist who has worked on FS before it really does something to free up the capsule.
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panda...think I have said this before, but also try throwing a long scarf over the top of a door, then using it like a pulley, with your good arm pulling up the bad arm. Don't push yourself through pain though. Indeed, I was doing this one day when I literally felt something 'give' and within days I had about six inches of movement back. (I drew a line in eyebrow pencil on a door frame where my hand reached when I stood side on....it went up and up until finally I can now get it over my head again.)
Sweet pea, this is very similar to the physio I was given, I lay on a bed with a metal grid type thing on the ceiling above me, they attached a long spring type thing to it and a sling on the end, my arm was put in the sling and I had to just gently swing my arm from side to side, and each week the spring was notched up alittle more, and the arc in which i swung my arm was bigger, I never really had any pain, and because it was so gradual, i did;nt even notice the improvement x
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Hi Panda,
its called Arthroscopic Capsular Release for Frozen Shoulder, you can Google it, this seems the most common procedure for frozen shoulder it only takes about 30 mins, although it is uncomfortable it does help a lot.
Tink
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Joyce...that reminds me, I also did pendulum swings.
Lean over from the waist, and let the bad arm hang loose like wet spaghetti (I love that comparison) or a needle on a string....then move the arm back and forth like a pendulum - or if you can manage, in small circles.
If you can only do the pendulum (back and forth in rigid movements) it proves how bad the capsule is. Eventually you should be able to do circles.
We have a huge kitchen table - farmhouse style - and I got it into my head I would do this exercise, lying flat out on my front, half my body on, and half off the table with my arm hanging down. (If you have ever tried to lie completely flat on your front, shoulders flat down with a frozen shoulder, it is impossible.) Anyhoo, you've guessed it...my neighbour did the 'whoo-hoo' thing and let herself in...only to find me spread eagled amongst the kellogs cornflakes.
Took a lot of explaining....
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Thank you sweet pea, Joyce21 and Tink,
I've been given lots of exercises to do from my physio, including various stretching and weight-bearing ones. She also gave me a resistance band to build strength. (Love the kitchen table scenario, lol).
Have googled the op (not always a good idea!) along with patient forums.
Can't pay for 'alternative' treatment as I don't have enough cash, so stuck with whatever the NHS can offer....which is currently physio and acupuncture.
I do have a lot more movement that when I first got frozen shoulder, for which I am very grateful, but it's difficult getting my arm behind my back - although I'm doing stretching exercises every day to lengthen the muscles.
I don't really want surgery (general anaesthetic) and all the associated risks (infection / blood clot / numbness / pain / worsening of the condition / etc) nor do I want to take at least 2 weeks off work (self-employed) and face several weeks of very intense physiotherapy.... but I wanted to look into ALL the available options.
xx
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Yes, I had my left shoulder frozen for oven two years trying cortisone shots , physio, acupuncture and massage. Nothing worked. Had surgery a little over a year and beside nerve damage that has now stopped and having more movement. Went to physio for seven month three days a week. My arm is not straight but a lot better. I was home three months to heal but also had calcium deposits and bone spores. I would say have the surgery. Right now I am in the beginning of my right arm freezing so too much pain so hopefully will not need surgery but probably will because extra came back with similar to the left shoulder.If you have any suggestions please let me know. Good luck.
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I had a frozen shoulder last year ... fell over onto my outstretched arm and within two weeks I had the pain (wincing while I remember it) and the zinging electric pains when I reached out my arm. Doctor prescribed physio to keep the arm open as it was freezing. In a nutshell, I tried acupuncture for pain relief which worked. Then my sister told me about an article in the Daily Mail about the Neil Asher Technique, so I went to the London clinic and had a session there. I instantly gained movement and went back a month later, and each time had more movement restored. Honestly, please believe me, the Neil Asher trigger point therapy works!! Bear in mind that I live in southwest France, and had to fly back, stay over 2 nights at a hotel (due to plane times not linking in with appointment times, ) so, in total, rarely got change each visit from £500 or more. But it was worth every single penny, I had five treatments over five months and shoulder is pretty much back to normal with almost fully restored movement. I'm not linked to the clinic in any way, just a really happy customer, and you can find them on www.frozenshoulder.com for more info. I'm happy to say more if you want on this.
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I had surgery in 2013 on left shoulder then February 2014 right arm froze. It is now October and started acupuncture and cupping and just two sessions and a lot of movement now just not over my head yet. I have a lot of bruising from cupping but will go back next week and hopefully more success. I too need more surgery on right shoulder but am trying hard to do it myself. Will keep everyone posted.
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I have had a frozen shoulder in both arms which lasted about 18 months on each side. I had weekly physio and a list of exercises to do at home which i felt helped. The acupuncture that i had did no good, but i did feel the cortozone injection did. It does take time and is a real inconvenience but i would not go down the route of surgery unless i had no choice. Both my arms have full mobility back thank god. x
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Hi ladies
I have had frozen shoulder since July 2014 had cortisone I jection did physio and after 5 months with no difference and when I caught my arm the pain was so unbearable I ended up in tears as you can't do anything about it you have to wait until it stops the consultant sent me for MRI scan and then said I did have a bad case of frozen shoulder worse case he had seen I can't wash or brush hair properly with right hand dress myself raise my hand any higher than straight out and decided I couldn't wait until it comes back which could be 12 to 18 months even longer so I decided to have the op to release the tendon which I did 2 days before Xmas thinking well at least I would have time off work during the xmas period without having too much time out of work which I did I was back driving within 2 weeks or when you felt able to do an emergency stop that is what I was told and of course having stitches in the shoulder where the seat belt went it had to be comfortable .i am now having physio but am disappointed thinking I would be able to move more than I can but I am hoping it's a time thing and if I keep on with the exercises that I will get more movement back than I have at present after going through the operation and having a reaction to the anaesthetic I don't want to give up .but of course there is no gaurantee it will return fully that is why your told in order you don't Sue so all I can do is live in hope but I have got to be patient .my physio did suggest accupuncture so been interesting reading other experiences on this forum .