Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: skkb on June 26, 2013, 02:24:54 PM
-
Is anyone else out there 60+ and still taking HRT. My doc isn't concerned about this but ten years plus and no end in sight !!
-
I've been on estrogen 33 years, had hyst when v young.
-
Hi
I am 55 and have been on hrt for 2 years and have tried to reduce the dose a few times and all the symptoms come back so can't see me coming off in the near future.
Lesley
-
I'm 59 and have been on it for six years but have been told by both Doctor and Menopause Clinic that I should come off at 60 due to the increased risk of stroke :( I have tried to come off twice before but the symptoms return within around three months until I am just as I was six years ago. I am still glad that I've had six sweat-free years though!!
Taz x
-
I think this only applies to oral HRT http://www.bmj.com/content/340/bmj.c2519.long
Excerpt
Conclusions
The increased risk of stroke associated with HRT use has been a constant finding among most observational studies and randomised controlled trials to date. Our study suggests that the use of transdermal oestrogen replacement therapy containing low doses of oestrogen could be associated with a lower risk of stroke than the oral route of administration since we found no significant difference in stroke rates for low dose transdermal users compared with non-users. Although these results alone do not represent definitive evidence to promote the use of the transdermal route over oral administration of oestrogen replacement therapy, this study should encourage further research on the importance of the route of administration to define the role of transdermal oestrogens in the therapeutic arsenal for the treatment of menopausal symptoms.
-
I believe, from the findings of both the GP and the menopause specialist, that once a woman reaches 60 the risk comes from both oral and transdermal types of HRT.
There seems to have been little research done in women over sixty to be honest. My doc is more concerned about the breast cancer risk but will prescribe providing that I understand the risk but it is not something that she would recommend.
Taz x
-
Yes, I worry about the risks, but I also remember how absolutely horrendous I felt whenever I've tried to stop the HRT. To be honest life was unbearable as my symptoms were so severe, that's no exaggeration. I use the gel 3 times a week, for 4 years everything was fine, no symptoms, suddenly four months ago symptoms returned intensely, I've persevered to allow things to settle but alas they have not so I've increased the dose to daily over the last week and a half and the symptoms are disappearing again, but now I'm worrying about the risks and feel I'm back to square one. I never thought it would be like this. I really don't know what to do.
-
I'm on oestrogen only and have been for many years. Consultant at meno clinic said she's happy for me to continue for next 3 years until I turn 60(argh - so soon). After that not sure what will happen. I am on estradot 25. Get odd flush - maybe one a day, but I can cope with that. I know the risks & discussed with hubby & we both agreed on life quality.
-
When women feel so ill without the hormones they produced during their reproductive years then what are they supposed to do, go on feeling so bad that every day is a struggle? Obviously something is lacking and the body cannot function properly without the right balance of hormones. How is it doctors are missing the point. If your symptoms are controlled with HRT and you have found one that suits you why are doctors wanting to take you off.
Meg
-
It's because the more years your body is exposed to oestrogen during your life, Meg, the higher the risk (they think) of you contracting a cancer. This is why you are more at risk if you begin your periods earlier - you have many more years of oestrogen in the body than someone who doesn't begin their periods until they are well into their teens.
As long as we know the risks I think that most GP's are willing to still prescribe. It is about quality of life but, even so, it is quite hard to be philosophical about that, I would think, when a cancer is diagnosed which may have been attributed to HRT. I also like a glass of wine. My GP says that in an ideal world if you are on HRT then you should give up alcohol because alcohol mimics oestrogen and you are then having an even higher dose!
Taz x
-
Goodness, I also love a glass of wine, more worry! I had read about the oestrogen in the body over many years and it does make sense, that's why I thought by this age I would have been able to reduce even more or even stop the hrt altogether. What I don't understand is why, after 4 years of no symptoms, they suddenly return at 63, it's so hard. My body just functions much better with oestrogen and my doc is ok for now, but how much longer I'm not sure!!
-
You need your estrogen all your life to keep bones, skin, brain, heart vagina etc healthy . This does not mean full HRT but just a 0.14 estrogen patch., which does not need progesterone/progestin to protect the womb as it is not enough to build up the lining.
Of cause if you have health factors or lifestyle that may pose a risk then your Doctor may considering what is best for you.
I use a 0.25 estrogen patch and leave it on for a week combined with supplements and a hopefully lifestyle, you have to work with the doctors, go for health checks as regularly as you can, this way you have more chance of staying on hormone therapy. My doctor will prescribe my patch along with my Calcichew D3 Forte for as long as I want more so if she knows I am benefiting from it and doing my bit to keep healthy.
If a doctor refuses point blank to prescribe full hormone therapy after a certain age, you can try another doctor if possible, or ask for vagifem or Estriol which at least will give some estrogen and can have some systemic effect.
Failing all that there are creams eg Serenity that you can buy, that contain bio identical hormones that may cushion the shock of withdrawal from prescribed hormones. There is one mineral Boron that has been proven to increase 17-beta-estrodil in post menopause women
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3678698
I know its a cliché but eating for health and keeping the body and mind active, all contribute to hormone, heart, bone and brain health.
I think its up to the individual women to do the best for herself and be proactive and that means also getting the best out of her Doctor.
-
Many thanks Silverlady, interesting. Your patch at 0.25 for a week is very low, I would be more than happy with that. I use the gel, sandrena, which suits me fine but it's 0.5mg three times a week (although daily at the moment until symptoms subside) which equates to 1.5mg per week! Would you consider that to be a low dose as that is what I hope to reduce it back down to?
-
skkb to my mind this is a low dose when you consider that a daily oral dose can be 1 or 2 mgs. If it is controlling your symptoms then at the moment it is the right dose for you, I would not fret too much about 10 years into the future. I assume you have had a hysterectomy.
I think in the hormone taking stakes, ladies who have had one fair much better with HT.
One thing can vouch for is that Trey looks amazing having been on estrogen for 33 years, that should be an inspiration for us.
At the moment we are being scared to death in the press about healthy women taking Tamoxifen which is an anti-estrogenic drug for five years, to prevent breast cancer, when women have far more chance of getting heart disease and osteosporosis then breast cancer. It is also being said in the same articles that taking estrogen alone can help breast cancer. They seem to underplaying the awful side effects that the drug can cause, for some women it is a necessity, but to suggest it for healthy women to me is madness and just make women fear estrogen and confuse them, when it is needed for so many functions in a womans body from cradle to grave.
-
sweetie does it matter?
Ive been pre/meno/post meno sivce I was 36/37 im 59 today
I had 2 years of Gynest 10yrs Of Ovestin and now 3 and a half years of Vagifem
I couldnt give a mokeys anyone who comes between me and my Vagi death and dismemberment would ensue and it wouldnt be me xxxxxxxxxxxx
-
Thanks Silverlady, I totally agree, especially with regard to Tamoxifen. After this two week boost I will drop back gradually to my three days each week.
SuziQ, lovely comment, really made me smile xx
-
My new doctor, a family practitioner MD and a Phd said all her female patients will be on the 0.050 patch cut in half to equal 0.25 until the day they die. Three gynaes have said the same thing to me.
I would never take oral again as it goes through the liver and there is where clots are thought by many to begin. My mother is now 97 and still on Premarin, ugh. She did get carcinoma in situ at 84 and the oncologist said she could go right back on Premarin. She still drives. Everyone is different for sure. I have varicose veins, always have had and surgery for them, but still use patch and always will.
-
That's wonderful, I've never been offered or tried patches......is it easier to get down to a lower dose with them? Maybe I could change & try the patches. How often do you change a patch Trey?
-
I tried half patches but it was as if I wasn't taking anything at all :-\
-
Silly question and I should probably know the answer.
Can you drop back to a tiny amount of oestrogen only if you have not had a hysterectomy or will you always need to oppose it with progesterone?
Honeyb
X
-
You will always need progesterone too Honeybun if you want to protect yourself from endometrial cancer.
Taz x :(
-
I haven't had a hysterectomy so do also take progesterone, although someone said in an earlier post that this isn't necessary with a really low dose of oestrogen as it isn't enough to build up the lining of the womb!
-
Thanks Silverlady, I totally agree, especially with regard to Tamoxifen. After this two week boost I will drop back gradually to my three days each week.
SuziQ, lovely comment, really made me smile xx
[/quote
GOOD XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX ;D ;D ;D
-
Here is some info on Menostar 0.14 weekly patch it is not available in UK but cutting 0.25 patch would be the same. You would get slightly less.
It is licensed for preventing ostesporosis, and I think is best suitable for ladies post menopause when they have stopped bleeding.
If you google "Menostar" you will get lots more info and can form your own opinion.
Its not necessary to have had a hysterectomy to use Menostar.
It take very little estrogen to keep the body healthy and in a non fertile state. We don't need pre menopause doses of hormones as we get older they are too taxing on the body.
-
How much older to you think I have to get SL before I can cut my patches and not have the meno symptoms return? :-\
Taz x
-
Honestly don't know Taz . It maybe that I have only ever used a low dose patch and not combined and my body is use to a lowered estrogen state, it might be that I take supplements that takes up the slack, and maybe some women go through menopause and don't have many symptoms and their ovaries compensate.
Wish I did have the answer.
I think the symptoms do finally subside after HRT and if you can't be prescribed a much lower dose then you are going to have to use alternate ways to get by.
-
I change patch once a week. If for any reason it falls off I replace it. If I were to stop I get hot flashes, US uses flashes, not flushes, within three days. This after being on ERT since age 41. Use Estrace cream, Estradiol 2 to 3 times a week and have reversed atrophy according to my gynae.
I get mammogram every 12 months.
-
How come your get a mammogram every 12 months? I don't think I'll get cervical smear tests anymore and mammograms I think stop soon also. Do you pay privately, if so, do you mind me asking how much they cost as I would be happy to pay?
-
isnt a smear every 3 years over 60?
Mamos every 2/3 years on Ozz
About the only ting thats free is a smear and mamogram
BUT oyu still have to pay to see the GP who does it
Nurses are not allowed to do them in Ozz except in the outback
mamao totaly free but if you want same day you go private you pay and you wait for the results
-
These are the NHS screening times http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/preventing-cancer/Pages/cancer-screening.aspx
Taz x
-
Hi
I have been on hrt since I was 46 now 56. My gp told me it doesn't count if you are under 50 because your body isn't making enough. So I am counting the years from 50.
I go to the Womens Healthcare clinic at the hospital and they want me off it, but every time I reduce it I feel rubbish. I want a life quality that is good, not poor.
Pandora
-
I have been on Estradot 75 for 6 years and my Gp has just upped me to 100 , I had been struggling a bit the last 2 years trying not to up the dose but its stopped the nightly flush which was waking me up and feel much better as a result.I am 56.
Important thing is to keep weight down, keep fit and moderate your drinking. Being overweight and drinking 2 large glasses of wine a day as we all know is probably more damaging than transdermal hrt. Its a balancing act and family health history has to come into equation. Personally life would be seriously unpleasant for me without hrt and as a consequence everyone around me. I know 2 ladies who are in their 70s and still on it so hope I can do the same if I still have symptoms. :)
-
Just wondering Pandora, if your doc "doesn't count" under 50 years as it means the body isn't making enough oestrogen, why should it matter when over 50 or over 60. I do think alittle benefits me, my body just functions better in many ways - I don't have any aches or pains at all and just feel generally better, so I guess stopping the hrt and feeling rubbish isn't an option I would be happy with. It is about quality.....no idea if what I'm doing is right, only that it's right for me at this time in my life!!!
-
Hi skkb - it doesn't count under the age of 50 because up to that age you would normally expect your body to make enough oestrogen so you are merely replacing what should have been there in the first place. The risks are thought to begin once you start adding to the years in which oestrogen is in your body - the longer the amount of oestrogen years the higher the risk of certain illnesses developing, particularly breast cancer. The risk is still small though. Alcohol mimics oestrogen so if you are on HRT and also drink alcohol your risk increases again. My doc is all for women either being on HRT or drinking alcohol but not both!
Taz x
-
wow taz, i dont drink at all (alcohol) and dont use hrt so does that mean if i started to have a drink each evening it would give me an oestrogen effect ???
-
I don't think it would have any beneficial effect on meno symptoms - which is a shame - not sure how it all works to be honest!
Taz x
-
Ok thanks Taz, got it. I like a glass or two of wine in an evening, although try to have at least three alcohol free days each week, but it's not looking good for me then!!!
-
Having just got back from the pub.. nor me skkb!!
Taz x :ola:
-
One thing is for sure we arent going to live forever :P
-
Might as well go happy.
Honeyb
X
;D
-
Skkb, I am 63, and been on HRT since I was 60, purely for hot sweats, have stopped twice, once for 3wks and sweats came back with a vengence :'( even on HRT I still get night sweats, but not the sweat running down body one's..
Hope you can stay on HRT for as long as 'you' want to...x
-
Alcohol mimics oestrogen so if you are on HRT and also drink alcohol your risk increases again. My doc is all for women either being on HRT or drinking alcohol but not both!
Not both? - oh bu***r
-
http://www.patient.co.uk/health/menopause-and-hrt
I think it says we can have up to 4 units a day. (Phew) panicking for a minute then.
-
If you had four units a day that puts you at twice the recommended 14 units a week though and that's to do with bone loss not breast cancer I think :-\
A 175ml glass of wine is two units which surprises many people. Seven glasses a week....
Taz x
-
Since being on HRT (two years) I have 'gone off' alcohol - not sure if it's hormone related but feels much like the going off alcohol that happens during pregnancy so maybe nature's way of protecting the body?
-
That's an interesting thought Morwenna. I can't say that I've gone off it though and although I didn't drink any alcohol during my three pregnancies it wasn't because I went off it so I guess that hormones affect all of us differently.
Taz x
-
I don't have 4 units a day. Stick to the 14 a week.
Except on a special occasion. ;)
-
Is that one glass a night or seven on one night littleminnie? ;D
-
Well that depends on what mood I'm in Taz. :)
-
Lovely, lighthearted, funny replies.......it's good we all look on the bright side. I'm happy with 7 glasses per week, although just been away for the weekend and so it was more, but generally no problem!!!