Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: Lynne888 on April 18, 2013, 09:34:19 AM
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I hate to even say the word depression. I'm not a depressive sort of person but my "low" feelings are getting considerably worse. I spent most of last week in bed. I originally felt that I just didn't want to take anything particularly as those I know who have taken stuff say it just makes them feel fuzzy, but as it is getting so much worse I am willing to give anything a go. If any of you have found something that helps please share! I am going to mention it to my GP. I would have mentioned it on Monday but she had a trainee in with her and I didn't want to go into loads of detail. I'm sure my husband dreads coming home. I have no interest in cooking (my fav thing to do) and no interest in anything else come to that. I'm weepy too (more than usual!). I follow Dr Christian on twitter and he insists that the only benefit of anything herbal is to the seller! If you have found that something has really helped, I'm be rvery grateful of your advice! Thank you xx
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Oh there are lots of ADs out there but nothing is a 'quick fix'. Sometimes it takes 2/3 months to feel a real difference in mood.
The brain is an organ which often needs support. I fought against taking ADs for years - lost years for DH and myself :'( - but acceptance was difficult. I have to take a low maintenance dose for Life.
The anomoly used is, if you were diagnosed a diabetic; or on heart tablets; you would take medication? So why do we depressives fight against taking a small pill once or twice a day?
Years after diagnosis I told people I had worked with in the 1970s - and got the "I didn't think you were the depressive type, you were always so 'up'." well what is a depressive 'type'? My depression is organic, complicated by clinical depression, it is also on both sides of my family. One reason why I remained childless.
Have a chat with your GP and see what is available to you. You may find that 2-3 years treatment will lift your mood so that you can see the wood for the trees. It will help you deal with any menopause symptoms and the everyday niggles!
:tulips2:
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Thanks for your informative reply. I guess the reason I feel unable to accept the depressive feelings is that for all of my life until now I have been a very happy soul. I know it is the menopause causing this. I have read on here that people have felt worse on medication and a good friend of mine really suffered, feeling worse on the pills than off them so I guess this is my main concern. I don't want to end up unable to function but I know I have to do something. I will speak to the GP about it... x
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Yep. People react to all kinds of medications. Because we are each an individual. I suffered intense nausea with one AD very early on, another made me feel like I was walking on 7" heels - Elton John in Tommy anyone ::) and that was after 3 days!!!! eventually my GP and I found something which suits. I am tired sometimes as a side-effect and my head feels woozy sometimes but that is far better for DH and me than my laying in bed, deeply afraid, unable to eat/drink/take any interest in stuff ..........
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Jin the club love untill 2001 3.40pm Remberance Sunday I was a happy chappy
Got thorugh pre meno meno and poist meno started at 36
But a family tragedy and illness brought me to my knees never thought Id ne happy ever again
Thought life sucked no joy life like that all over NO of course its wasnt
I took ads took about 1 month to work I had therapy for 3 years but that was diff to meno
Theres nothing herbal out there sweetie if there was that person would be richer than Bill gates
Go to GP sit talk write down everything you feel
Everyone has a story about pills same as everyone has a story about childbirth
He may out you on Beta Blocas and a mild Diazapam for a month or so
Dont be scared of tihngs you read if they scare you then leave it go to see GP thats what they are there for xxxxx
CLKD how true wise lady Listen to her OK lifes to bloody short look at the poor sods in Wako today and Boston
take charge go thats a good girl big hygs xxxxxxxx
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I disagree that there is no herbal help.
St John's Wort is widely prescribed in Europe for mild depression.
You can't take it if you are on HRT but it can and does help.
Are you on HRT just now. It's possible that could also be an option.
Honeyb
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What lovely responses! Thank you! I'm on vagifem so not sure if that would affect the St John's wort? Yes I too have had some sh*tty things happen lately and I know a lot of it could be that,but I've suffered tragedies and upsets before and never felt quite as low as this. Honestly, I am annoying myself feeling like it, I could hit myself around the garden with a shovel. I've also got quite bad hair loss which is making me feel my hormones are well and truly up sh*t creek!! I DID lose some hair when my dad died and have suffered with it on and off since. I actually sell wigs and hairpeices for a living so I know all there is now know about any little fillers and stuff fortunately!! My hair brush is really full every time I use it. So along with the depressive feelings (and practically forcing my husband out of the door!) lots of other issues are present. Things feel quite bleak, I could help write all of Morrissey's songs.
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Hun it may help for a while but when you have massive amounts of Serotonin and adrenaline
ABSO coursing through your body beleive me St Johns wort wont do a thing
Lynne I just googles STJW and Vagifem this is what it said
Taking STW with Vagifem can cause ser side efects sick headaches flu like symptoms
Also JW with Vagifem or HRT causes the hormones to be used far quicker making the HRT and Vagifem less effective
Do not use STJW while using Birth control pills as it makes it inefective
This was not the Vagifem site either
I wonder how many women are having problems with the Pill and HRT and Vagifem and also use STJW?
I would advise anyhone who wants to take any suppl to check with Chemist tell them what medicines your taking they then can check in UK MIMS book see if its safe or better still see GP
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Thanks for this. In the past I've taken a lot of herbal remedies and haven't found them useful but I don't want to offend honey bee if they are working for her as we are all different! I will see my GP about it.. but would have liked an easy option I guess! x
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Hey Im sure HUn wouldnt be offended would you HUN
Everyones different we all have our own ways of drealing with things and thats a good thing
Google it yourself yourself Type in Does taking St Johns wort have side affects with Vagifem
See what it says
I have to be honest I dont beleie in Herbs or sups except for the old fashioned cod liver oil
Malt extraxt if your tired and run down Cytatan B 12 complex to get your apetite back
Thats it Im a beliveer in 3 veg 2 fruits a day and everyone can do it you can buy a drink of it mixed in any supermarket
BUt I respect other peoples views what they feel is good for them thats why the world is so fab we are all different
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Yes I agree with you totally. I have used loads of herbal stuff in the past it has just not worked for me.I'm all for anyone taking or using anything they find useful though - it's such a huge thing that it must be working for some. Will google it as you suggest! Thanks!
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No not offended at all.
Really surprised to read about the Vagifem link to SJW. I did know about the pill and HRT.
Some of my in laws are in Germany and I have been told that GPs there prescribe SJW for mild depression so obviously they have the evidence that it works.
Have you considered HRT Lynne. Oestrogen does help with low mood.
Honeyb
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I would consider HRT.. I will see what my GP says. I'll keep you informed!! x
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I understand that St John's Wort is not prescribed in mainland Europe :-\ ...... Germany was one of the first countries to stop using it. This was about 5 years ago.
Herbal rememdies rarely work for chronic conditions, however, the placebo effect does. They may well work for conditions with no diagnostic basis. If they were useful they would be on the NHS ;).
Better to go with proven medication and get stable so that one can see the wood for the trees. Then as one begins to feel more in control, by all means try herbal remedies, however, one needs to be absolutely sure what the active ingredient is and how much AI is in each tablet ;)
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I found this report.
. John's Wort versus other antidepressants
De Smet (1996) also studied hypericum extract in opposition to standard synthetic antidepressants. In his study, he used "the comparator drug in daily amounts below or at the lower end of the usual dose range". All of these studies lasted less than six weeks and as De Smet noted that it takes at least two to four weeks of taking St. John's Wort for it to produce some noticeable effects. In this study, the beneficial effects of St. John's Wort appear to be equal to those of the prescription medications. These findings also suggest that the herbal medication may be safer than prescription antidepressants and cause patients to comply easier.
Linde, Ramirez etc. (1996) found the hypericum extracts to be as effective as standard antidepressants in helping alleviate depression. In this study, there were some trials that compared single hypericum preparations to standard antidepressants and some trials of combinations compared to the prescription antidepressants. In the single hypericum preparations, 63.9% of patients responded positively while 58.5% responded with the standard medication. In the combination trials, 67.7% responded to the hypericum extracts while only 50% responded to the synthetic drugs. The scores on the Hamilton depression scale were a little better in those patients that had taken the single preparation hypericum than those who took the synthetic drugs, once again proving that St. John's Wort is as effective as, if not more, than standard antidepressants.
In Ernst's study (1995), he too found that St. John's Wort is as effective as the standard antidepressants in the treatment of depression.
All studies seem to indicate that hypericum extract works as well as if not better than standard prescription antidepressants. I could not find any studies that contradicted this theory. All trials seem to point to the idea that St. John's Wort is the herbal equivalent of the synthetic antidepressants but without all of the negative side effects.
Another report says
Hypericum is Not Just Another Roadside Weed By: Nancy Kobielak
St. John's Wort is becoming increasingly popular in the treatment of mild to moderate depression throughout both Europe and the United States.
St. John's Wort is being prescribed eight times more frequently than the leading prescription antidepressant in Germany. Presently, St. John's Wort is being taken by more than twenty million consumers in Germany. What can a "Roadside Weed" do for you"?
Well, St. John's Wort, thought of as a troublesome weed by some, is proving helpful to millions of people now suffering from the effects of depression. Recently an article in Newsweek Magazine as well as a feature segment on the popular ABC Network TV show 20/20, have assisted in bringing St. John's Wort to the forefront of public awareness as an alternative herbal therapy.
There are two major reasons for the popularity of St. John's Wort as an herbal remedy for depression. First St. John's Wort produces results equal to or better than synthetic antidepressants in the treatment of mild to moderate depression. St. John's Wort has far fewer and less serious or intense side effects than synthetic antidepressants.
I am not suggesting that there is no need for ADs but for some this could be the place to start.
Honeyb
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Thanks Honeybun! However, these results are the 1990s. Is there anything more recent. I think SuziQ's advice to go to speak with a Pharmacist for up-date information is wise.
I take 5mg in the evening and if necessary to boost my low mood, 5mg at breakfast time, plus the betablocka for anxiety. Rescue Remedy to hand if required.
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Hypo thyroid causes depression and loss of hair. Please be sure to have the three tests for thyroid T3, T4, and Tsh.
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Yep ladies Herbs are suppliments thats great but we all have to becareful
Some silly sods think you dont need Insulin you can get it via ERBS as the Americans say xxxxxxxxx YAYY USA XXX
That UK women a ago was trying to deny her child the right to live chemo wise using Herbs
There nothng wrong with herbs vits minerals BUT common sence and reality has to be thught of too
Like everything things can be turned around remember Sir Humphrey
Primininister says Humprey Im going to bring back Nservice that will keep the unemployed off the street
They will get rules to guide their lives give them self respect make them strong
Yes Sir but also they will be fully trained in armed combat what happens after National service
You coyuld have fully trained combat ready Thugs on the streets OH HUmphrey?????????
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Yes! I am on citalopram and I wouldnt function without it. As CLKD says, people who know me who I HAVE let in on my problem are stunned, get the usual comments. My best friend is the same, without her seroxat she ends up having panic attacks yet she is the most calm and capable person I know.
If you are staying in bed all week, cant be bothered to cook etc then I dont think St John's Wort will be strong enough for you. It sounds as if you have moderate to severe depression and need to speak to your GP asap. Have you tried taking the Goldberg depression test online? That will give you some idea of how bad you are, we dont always realise it often takes somebody else to point it out.
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I didn't recongise my depression. One morning my GP phoned home and told me to see him the next day, he had driven past me whilst I was walking my dog and seen that I was becoming depressed, purely on my body language. Now I am more brain aware ::) ........ also, the longer the brain has been depressed, the longer it can take for medication to kick in ;)
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Wow! Your GP sounds very impressive, bit like those ones in "Doctors" who have time to go to patients' homes and deal with all their probs before heading off to a secret liaison with a colleague ;) ;D
Seriously: impressed :)
Did you get an appt for today?!!
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I've been browsing, in between trips to the loo ....... this Link is too long to print but worth a look-see ....... seems I was incorrect about it being banned in Europe :-[
www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/05/050522113250.htm
www.netdoctor.co.uk/diseases/depression/stjohnswort_000316.htm
I grow this plant in our garden ........ as a shrub rather than a tree, known as 'rose of Sharon'
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I did the test and am 'slightly depressed' which means my medication is working ;)
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I take sertraline, an AD developed in the 1990's. I was first put on it in 1998ish for post natal depression. I was left languishing on it until I felt I really should do without it.
In 2010 I spent a year coming off it but after 6 months I was climbing the walks with anxiety and obsessions which I never had before.
I am of course back on it and back to 'normal'. I will never know if I was 'hooked' or if I really chemically need it.
My consultant believes depression is art and ravel of my Sjögren's syndrome I also have APS so who knows.
But despite everything I would still advise you to consult a GP and work out the best course for your needs.
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I don't think anyone ever suggested that SJW was any good for anything other than mild depression.
However unlike some herbal medications it is accepted by the medical community that it does have its place as a treatment.
Honeyb
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Yep. for 'low to mild' depression.
(I did get an appt. today for the other condition ::) )
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Hi there, I've just been reading this thread, and this is me right now. I've just spent the past week in bed, I've been feeling totally washed out and have no interest in anything. I've been taking 2mg Hrt for four months and I feel miserable. I was on citalopram for a few months too but that was stopped when I started Hrt. Can ad's been taken alongside Hrt, I'm getting desperate. X
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Yes you can take HRT and ADs together.
Poor you there is nothing worse than feeling so down.
Maybe a trip to your GP to see how they can help.
HRT can't fix everything.
Honeyb
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Thank you Hb, I'm so low right now, I'm sure my husband is sick of me. A trip to gp is on cards today if possible x
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"I'm sure my husband is sick of me" - that's a statement typical of those of us with depression .......... because we feel depressed and have lost interest in Life, we believe that those around us will be 'sick' of us. Why not ask him how he feels, DH was more worried about his wife not being the 'up' person he knew and he was worried that he was unable to help.
Get your GP to prescribe anti-depressants and take them for 8-12 months. It can take a while before the brain begins to 'lift' and it can take longer before we realise we are beginning to feel well again ;) and in the meantime, try NOT to beat yourself up about not being able to do stuff. This is now. That was then. We need to move forwards to 'tomorrow'. :tulips2:
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I have read these posts with interest.
In the late 80's I trained to be a psychiatric nurse I saw some terrible cases of people dosed up on tablets unable to function and it did impact on my attitude towards anti depressants (of course they werent all on anti depressants) I left the course after 2 years and didnt complete my training it was just not for me and i have never regretted that decision as i made many friends who i still am close to today and met my husband through one of them.
Back to the point, when the peri meno hit me like a ton of bricks a year ago i was convinced i was loosing my mind and myself with it, my gp was keen for me to try AD's but i refused after weeks of sitting in the house in the dark crying all day she practically begged me to take them, she said she had patients in the surgery who asked for Ad's and didnt need them but i obviously did, I told her about my experience as a trainee nurse and she did understand where i was coming from and discussed with me how medications had progressed over the years.
I think, as i assume most of us are, that people in their fortoes and older still hold a massive stigma towards taking tablets for depression, i was brought up to beleive you were weak or incapable if you had to take medication for mental health. It is a hard barrier to overcome.
All i can say is if i had not took my gp's advice and took the Ad's which i have now been on for a year i don not know if i would still be sitting here crying in the dark. I intend with my gp's support to stay on them right through the menopause,they have saved my life and my sanity.
I would say to anyone forget the stigma things have moved on massively and they eally can make a difference to your life. They dont suit everyone but unless you try you wont know. xxx
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I did phyc as an sen in UK befiore coming to ozz and continuing with my studies
You can either do Phyc nursing or you cant its lioke Geriactic which I also did
Ive known SISTERS fist day go for their lunch break and not come back couldnt cope
Ive worked with drug addicts Helped PFLAG (parents lesbians and gays) with HIV we have a family member with HIV
MY mother was an addict to precriprion drugs at 12 Dad took us to our family farm me with a 6 year old brother
He left me to look after MUM going cold turkey getting oFF Drinamyl ( Purple Hearts)
At 11 shed send me to the council easte to buy them for 2/6 each as shed used up her script
The list was endless for over 25 years Triptinol Lithium Tuanol Mandrax Mododon Valium Serapax
So when I went to bits no BLOODY way was I going to take anything after 2 weeks I realised I couldnt cope
I saw in me the people Id nursed I loved my job working with the mentaly wounded druggies and alcys and I was good
I understood how they felt how theyd got there To me it didnt matter how long it took I just wanted to be well
I now take my BLUE PI: Lexotan 2 a day and like CLKD have my INderal beta blocas for when I get the abso terrors
In fact been taling 40mg a day for just over 2 weeks todays the first day I woke not feeling terrified to death xxx
Sorry spel worse cant find glasses xxxxxxx
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SuziQ - glad that at last your brain is calming down and you didn't have the high anxiety ! Little steps.
Also; in the 1940s onwards, well into the 1980s, people were not prescribed anti-depressant medication but things like Ativan and Valium - totally different medications! It can also depend on what other meds. they are taking ......... I've been in the zombie state and it wasn't pleasant ........
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Nothing today either so no beta just my blue pill xxxxxxxx
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PHEW!
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I was not very clear in my post.
I was trying to say that things have moved on enormously in recent years in the treatment and attitude of mental health problems.
Anti depressants are not for everyone, but in some cases, they can be amazing and turn lives around. xx
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I feel the same so low. I had a full hysterectomy 2 years ago and still trying to find hormonal balance. My last blood tests were oestrogen 78 pmol so I think my hrt that I am taking now is not doing much good. I so want to feel good but scared of starting an AD. I think it comes from the fact that I had PND 19 years ago and tried about 10 different ones and none of them worked so fearful it will be the case this time. Am I just being silly and perhaps it will work this time. I have citrapam(can't spell it) in cupboard but too scared to take it cos of all the side effects i might have but on other hand feeling depressed as well. Can't go on suffering like this, it spoils everything I try and do. Wish I had the courage to just go for it, I might be missing out on feeling good.
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No one is 'silly' in avoiding medication which can have side-effects. :hug: but you need to consider if you are missing out on a bit more 'life' than you are currently experiencing. In my experience - since 1999 - there are far better meds on the market now than then; it took several months before I found one which kind of suits, it isn't perfect - I get a fuzzy head occasionally - but at least DH and I have a Life together again. Add to that the Beta-blocka ;) .......... Paisley - maybe begin taking Citalapram? the Friday night prior to a week's holiday? In fact, if you are working - and menobrain can't remember ::) - book 2 weeks from work if possible. Then you can start the mdication knowing that you only have yourself to 'suit' ;)
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I haven't gone down the AD route so far but if I needed them I would speak to my GP without any hesitation. We only get one life and it's too short not to do anything we can to feel functional. Having recently had some "therapy" one thing that has helped me is to accept that it is impossible to be "happy" all the time. I think that the modern world tries to sell us this myth, hence loads of us end up buying things we don't need and coveting others, all in a bid to be "happy" because of course, everyone else we meet out on the street is "happy". Aren't they? The poet Philip Larkin famously said, "to be truly happy, I would need to be someone else." I think that is true of lots of us. I live in one of the most beautiful areas of the UK - stunning - and have beaten myself up for years for not being blissfully happy having relocated, but now I've stopped. I am content most of the time, have "flashes of happiness" every now and again and sometimes I am miserable. I'm not saying that clinical depression isn't something else - that would be stupid (and there is no stigma in mental illness or shouldn't be, it's no different from heart disease or cancer) - but just that I believe some people feel worse than they may otherwise when looking around at at the other "happy folk" out there.
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Lucky Stone your post really helped me. I'm really struggling and I think you are right--I'm assuming everyone else is living a more stable life. I know what clinical depression is and this isn't it. It is just sadness and now reading your post, I realize that I'm comparing my life to others. I give myself a pep talk every morning and listen to a CD about living in the now, but your post hit a chord. And I know my life is far, far better than most.....shame on me. Also had two hot flashes/anxiety last week and that shook me up until I figured out what was happening.
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No, not shame on you Trey, just hey, it's where you are at the moment. And I am pleased that my reflections have helped a small bit 8) - hang in there. Hot flushes bring on the old anxiety with me as well, so I know where you are coming from. Be kind to yourself and just do the best you can every day. It's all we can ever do.
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Thank you from me too LuckyStone - I have been very down today and feeling very sorry for myself. I look at other people and think why can't I be happy like them. The sun is shining and I am sad not to be enjoying it - but it is only my negativity stopping me. Hubby has gone back on low dose meds today and I felt so dissapointed and I am ashamed to say 'trapped'. It is a long struggle but I should be grateful he is with me and not keep wishing for more. You are so right in what you say.
Trey - keep your chin up (as they say in UK) you have been through such a lot and been admired by many of us ladies for all you coped with. Be kind to yourself, don't beat yourself up. As I was told today, live in the moment - not the past, or the future - just the moment you are in and enjoy what is around you. Sending love and hugs your way. PN x x