Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => Personal Experiences => Topic started by: grumpy2008 on January 14, 2013, 05:12:29 PM
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I don't know if this is a general age thing or hormonal (I suspect it's a bit of both) but during this meno lark I have found an ability to speak up for myself. I've bitten my tongue all my life, and I've pretty much always been the shoulder rather than the 'shouldee' if you know what I mean!!! Always the peace-maker, seeing things from all sides.
But heck, I'm starting to form opinions and even more surprising, I'm starting to say something! I don't mean politics or deep issues or anything like that, I mean little day-to-day irritations that I used to quietly tolerate.
The down side to all this is it has ruffled a few feathers. Some of you know that we had problems with our teenage daughter being bullied at school before Christmas, and I lost 2 'friends' over that (one of them wasn't even involved, she just took offence to the fact that I wasn't prepared to sit back and let it all happen). And today I've had another 'friend' get upset with me because I expressed myself and she didn't like it.
I don't want to be seen to be a grumpy old woman, but at the same time I feel like I'm being more true to myself... how do I get the balance right, before I scare all my friends off???! Or perhaps these friends aren't true friends anyway? I worry that I'm just getting more and more intolerant...?
One thing I've noticed is that for years I've shown concern, always worried about other peoples problems etc, but not once have any of these particular friends asked ME how I'm doing... Is it too much to ask?
Sorry, this is probably garbled! Peri brain!!!
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I've done the same. "No more the fool" ... I've always been a bit blunt but now I don't hold back. Why bother? Life's to short, so if it winds me up I say so.
I really think its a age/meno thing. Also we've had to deal with parents, OH's, kids etc so maybe at our time of life the tables turn >:D
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The one thing that really stands out for me in your post Grumpy is the fact that most other people whom i have shown a genuine concern for are not really bothered. These people i have little or no tolerance for any more x
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I don't put up with being taken for a fool nowadays either. I used to be quiet & timid and wouldn't say boo to a goose. But these days I speak up. I'm lucky though as nobody appears to have fallen out with me yet. I do usually try and find a nice way to put people in their place.
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Thanks everyone, I'm glad to know I'm not the only one :D. I wouldn't deliberate upset someone of course, but now I have this voice, finding the right way to express it can be tricky. It just doesn't come naturally to me. I've always appreciated 'plain speaking' myself, because i like to know where I stand with people - but I guess not everyone feels that way.
Cook, I'm trying not to let other people's reactions to the 'new me' affect me too much, but it's difficult :-\. Sweettooth, I've been very disappointed that certain friends have reacted so badly, but quickly realised that these are the people who probably used too much of my energy without giving anything back :'(. Cubagirl, like you I've always been reserved - maybe that's why it's so much of a shock to others... even though I'm trying to express myself tactfully!
I guess this time of life is not called the 'change' for nothing! I really feel like I'm changing as a person...
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I've often bitten my tongue but no longer. As for friends walking away, well if those don't ask how I am occasionally they are off my Ch.mas card list. When I had depression and anxiety that list halved in 3 months :o.
You go Girl! I used to begin with "I am going to say this, you won't like it but ...... " ;D
Some of us are sponges ;)
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CLKD, I can relate to your whole post! I actually quite like being able to 'speak up' a bit, but I'm still uncomfortable with the reactions. My skin is still fairly thin. That's a good tip for an opening line... ;)
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What is a friend? Friend requirements alter as we age. I find that younger women tolerate my moans and groans better than my own age group ::)
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I've always been quite reserved, but do find that I am beginning to change in this way too. I do think that there has to be a happy medium/fine balance though, as I would not like to end up being thought of as a cantankerous old woman many years down the line and do think that some of our elders end up making this mistake and alienating friends and family.
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Yes CLKD, you're right about the friends we need... I've moved on from some over the years but still think of them fondly... it's just that recently I've had a few drop away because of (and this is my assumption) of the changes in me. And I'm guessing they won't be looking back at me fondly :(. Ho hum.
I'm actually finding who my real friends are at the moment.
just me, it's the cantankerous line that I'm worried about crossing, I can start to see me moving in that direction in years to come! Hubby says I'm worrying too much. He thinks it's great I'm sticking up for myself at last.
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This is a really interesting topic! I have no idea how I 'come over' to others ::)
Old habits die hard though and if we are to be content in our new selves during and after The Change, we need to make sure we can say what we mean. When we are upset we should be allowed to say so ;) .......... it's the how and when that might be tricky ::)
Grumpy: have you tried contacting these people to find out why they have gone from your Life? Maybe they would like to reconnect but ........ you could tell them that 'this is the way I felt then but I would be interested in how I came over to you at that time ....... ' unless you don't want them back in your Life. Did they send C.mas cards for example?
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CLKD, there's definitely one of the friends I'm better off without (don't want to bore you with details) but I'm hoping the others will be ok when we get chance to talk... not yet... but I'm sure we won't be so close. You're right that it's the 'how and when' that's tricky.
Haha, I'm not sure i want to know how I come over to others right now, still feeling a bit sore - but i definitely know how these friends have 'come over' to me! Sigh.
I've been thinking that at this stage of life we need to conserve our (dwindling!) energy, so have to be more careful who we spend it on perhaps?
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Well me and OH had a bit of a row the other day he said that I was always moaning about something and he was getting tired of it, we'll I have a lot to be moaning about the usual really. Work, a teenage son, weather, headaches, life in general , I must say I do seem to be speaking up for myself a bit more too I have always been one for a quiet life but in doing so have been a bit of a mug and am realising it now a bit late in life but I'm thinking why should I keep putting up with this crap and now fighting back and hubby don't like it . Well I know we should discuss things and as we have been married for 35 years should be used to each other by now so maybe it is me but am I changing into a moany old woman that no one wants to talk to I hope not.
Js
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I have the habit of shouting at the TV :o- like my attitude will alter anything. DH rolls his eyes ::) ........ maybe we need to ask how we 'come over' so that we can be pro-active but not niggling with our comments?
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js, here's a hug for you :hug:
It's a difficult time of life, being pulled in all directions, and if others have been used to us 'giving' all the time then it's a shock when we stand still and say 'no more'. I find myself moaning, too. My emotions are closer to the surface, and I don't think it's healthy to bottle it up completely. Actually, maybe we shouldn't see it as moaning... we're just seeing the world in a different light?
CLKD - shouting at the TV is safer than most things! LOL. I'm pretty sure that the way I 'come over' will be different depending on who I ask, not because I'm so different with different people, but because they all react differently... ???
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I know we probably should not be bothered about how we 'come over' to other people, but I'm thinking of it from a mother/daughter point of view as my mum got really cantankerous (partly due to her illness though) which annoyed me to high heaven sometimes ::) and I read about members 'listening to mother' on the phone or being 'talked at' and while I can sympathise, I feel it's sad that our relationships go this way - but maybe it's inevitable?
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This is an interesting topic.
My eldest daughter pointed out to me the other evening that I am always putting people in their place and giving them a hard time. I said - 'really ?' Yes she said, you are always shouting at waiters etc! I was a bit taken back by her comment and started to analyse if she could be right. She said that at times it was embarrassing ::)
Maybe we have more confidence and experience in life. I just have to be a bit more diplomatic as to how I come across I think!
Rebecca
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It's hard to fight hormones/nature - I hate the thought of being seen as grumpy, but maybe going part-way there isn't a bad thing?
I was thinking about it last night in bed (felt hot, couldn't sleep, the usual stuff!) in my case what it boils down to is fear. Or lack of fear. I'm not frightened to speak up anymore. Whereas my daughter is filled with fear... fear of what people think. I guess most of us are like that when we are younger but the inhibition gets less as we get older?
I read somewhere that a woman's midlife is a time when her 'true self' pops back to the surface again and issues we thought we had dealt with have to be faced again. Sigh.
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If I knew when I was 18/20s what I know now about dealing with people and not taking any flakk! ::)
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Grump youve steepped out of the box that people have always seen you in
The careing one the one that listened the one that made no judgments
The one who was always nice kind considerate never had thought or strong opinions of her own as they saw you
ALL of a sudden your saying hang on a mo NO I dont agree and YES I have an opinion and its as valid as yours
Some pals wont like it in fact Id say most closish pals wont its now you find your true pals
GO forth be the you you are now say what you think do what you really want to do stand up for yourself be strong
IN saying things you dont have to be nasty (not thnking youve been) just give your feelings your opnion you have one
Freindships arent one sided where 1 takes the other gives it a mix
I dont take B sssssssst anymore I stand up for myself mind I always did but I also needed to be liked
3 years of recog therapy taught me THIS IS me take me or leave me if you leave thats fine by me
I do the same with others if I dont like them I leave them
I have cut people out of my life now very ruthlessly if they dont bring something to the table in life fun conversation
Bobbles and I make jokes me some nice people are Friday worthy some guduns are saturday worthy some get monday
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Friendships aren't one sided .......... so true Suzi Q.
I was really interested to read this. In some ways I have become the opposite, or a mix of what you have all described. I have lost confidence in ability and personal presence and I had extreme financial pressures until very recently. I don't want any aggravation or confrontation and find it difficult to find the words to address matters. I am also more withdrawn and quieter. I have quite dominant people at work and in my family, so that may have influenced my thinking.
I also have less inclination to be with the friends who drain me - so I just keep back most of the time.
I, too, have been moaning more though (I hear mysef and don't like it) and that is not good for my friends. (Mostly about Mum and responsibilities for others).
Not quite sure where I am at the moment with it all. Don't like it though wherever it is. I don't feel I am in a very happy place with others although I am not unhappy on my own if that makes sense.
Perhaps I have withdrawn from the usual friends and unconsciously preparing to launch myself with new/different relationships that bring me more joy? I like to think this since it is a positive move.
I am not blaming the other person(s). I am different too.
I know I want to be someone that people want to be with so this is as much my responsibility.
I can really understand when people find it difficult to deal with changing personalities. Does not mean you are wrong. Just means perhaps your relationship with them will become different or over.
Oh - on a weekend retreat 'Living with Harmony', part of it was to write down what our 'ideal living community / life community' would be like. We had previously worked on personal values.
We then had to write down the people we would put into our community; the people who were a necessary part of our lives that had to live on the periphery; and that left those that we could drop or deal with differently. I was distraught I only had 2 people to put in the community. The rest had grown differently to me and they did not match my values or life community. I did not feel so bad when my cousin with whom I have a very interesting relationship, had some the same and only come up with 2 people too. She decided to change her life after that.
I guess I just need to get the energy/motivation and gumption to make a change in mine.
Fx
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Thank you SuziQ - you've said it in the words I couldn't find! Yes, I've stepped out of the box! Scary, but liberating.
Firewalker50, it's a funny thing but I am normally SO nonconfrontational. I hate it and usually walk away. It's what stops me from expressing myself, but this past few months I've had to say things I'd normally keep to myself, and I've found that it's not too bad after all (with the exception of the obvious fallout).
The exercise you did on your weekend retreat is an interesting one. I did something similar about 18 months ago when I was at a low ebb - I was horrified to realise that I had very few friends I could rely on, call if I needed to... most were draining in some way or other. I also think I would only put (eek) maybe 2 in my community. But what do we do about it???
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Live with the 2 you really like. In a community there will be others ;) in all aspects as suggested.
I couldn't name 10 people I would like round our table for breakfast .......... whereas through my 20s/30s and into my 40s I had lots of people I interacted with. A few would have dropped everything if necessary. However, a couple who did 'drop everything' got fed up with me after 3 months :-\ ....... nothing was said but the 'phone when required' message became 'we are busy' ............
It got me wondering whether we really do need to invest as much energy in others as we previously thought! So now I 'use' those around me as required; those for poultry sitting, those for coffee and cake, those to go for walks with ........... and we know we can call on each other if and when.
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Interesting topic. The meno certainly changes us. I dither far more than I used to and I hate confrontation and arguments now where once upon a time I would argue all night if need be and was convinced I was always right but now I see other points of view and I think before I speak which used to be unheard of for me. Perhaps it is just self preservation as I know all these things will just stress me more cos I am dealing with hormonal issues as well.
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I sometimes feel that I could live on my own and not interact with anyone - sounds very unsociable, but life would be much easier not having to do anything for anyone other than yourself. Might get a tad boring though, I would probably turn into an old lady with cats ;D
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I sometimes feel that I could live on my own and not interact with anyone - sounds very unsociable, but life would be much easier not having to do anything for anyone other than yourself. Might get a tad boring though, I would probably turn into an old lady with cats ;D
ooooooooo sounds so much like me. So much easier at times. Just Me.
Fx
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I have always been a compulsive people pleaser.It's something I am really trying to address. I have found my voice over some things but I find it very difficult.
I see myself "pleasing" and I try so hard not to. Actually my anxiety has forced me to say no because I simply can't.
My sister tells me that I do far to much for my family and they take advantage. I am trying to slowly change things. I ask for more help and complain if I don't get it.
I prefer my own company at the moment and the two friends that I was close to have disappeared. I just don't care.....if they only liked me because I said yes then they were not worth having.
Honeyb
x
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I'm like Paisley in that I used to be confrontational (to the point where my children begged me NOT to be) but now consider what I am saying before I speak.
Some of it may be that I was married to the most non-confrontational man in the western world so I had to fight everybody's battles. My current partner is the complete opposite so that I find he does all the standing up for me and I dont need to. I also think I have learned compassion over the years so now I think more about how others might be feeling.
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Really strange for me to read this topic at this moment and time as i found myself in the same way of thinking lately. Now i have thought a bit like this before but this is different.....confidently determined. It almost seems as if others is or has taken me for granted. I have always been the one to listen and i AM genuinely interested in other people and their problems but NOW the difference is I want something back ie interest in me or my life . I too am quite liking my own company but i dont want to get too cynical either. I dont want to change too much but like a lot of you ladies i am ditching the fakes!
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One so called friend ditched me......I was very hurt. She had been planning a birthday party for one of her son's. She was getting caterers in and as I used to do that for a living I said I would help her. Before I knew where I was I had been landed with the lot. Rather than a few sandwiches she was having a full day event and I was just to be there to cook. I was not even a guest. She even wanted my daughter as a waitress.
I lost so much sleep....Hubby insisted I told her I could no longer help. It took all my courage. I lost a "friend"
Who needs pals like that.
Sometimes speaking up is the hardest thing.
Honeyb
x
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I was ditched by a so-called friend too, although OH always said that she only saw me when it suited her. However, don't miss the contact now, sometimes 'friends' can be such hard work.
I must admit that I find it increasingly difficult to bite my tongue when in a bad mood, so if moodiness is all part of meno maybe that' s why we find our voices at this time of our life.
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I used to be really snappy .......... now I try to compose what I would like to say before letting rip ;D
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You were right to ditch that friend Honeyb, that was just using you.
I realise that over the past decade or so I've ditched quite a few so called friends. I guess I've done my ditching so now I am happy with the ones who are left :) I really appreciate them.
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One so called friend ditched me......I was very hurt. She had been planning a birthday party for one of her son's. She was getting caterers in and as I used to do that for a living I said I would help her. Before I knew where I was I had been landed with the lot. Rather than a few sandwiches she was having a full day event and I was just to be there to cook. I was not even a guest. She even wanted my daughter as a waitress.
I lost so much sleep....Hubby insisted I told her I could no longer help. It took all my courage. I lost a "friend"
Who needs pals like that.
Sometimes speaking up is the hardest thing.
Hecky Thump
I remember that you posted on here about that
Sorry you lost her as a pal but she was taking the preverbial xxxxxxxxxxxx
Honeyb
x
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Honeybun - I remember that situation for you. Sad at the time. But to be 'used' becomes less of an option, particularly once we realise it.
However, sometimes we have, for our own sanity, to speak out. There are those that drain and those who invigorate ;)
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"There are those that drain and those who invigorate" - CLKD
You are so right. I want to be one of the people who invigorate. Not always easy at times when we are facing personal health issues and challenges, but I really do try to keep the reminder in my head, especially when I am listening to my voice ;D.
Fx
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I think maybe we need to open our conversations with "I'm not feeling so good today" or "I'm bolshie" ;)
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I had an email from my sister in law yesterday. She was talking about her other brother coming to Scotland for a visit.
I told her we had no room to put them up and also that I was going through meno and struggling with anxiety.
Hopefully she will pass this on.
It's only a little step but at last I said something.
Honeyb
x
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Well done HB. Hope the message gets through. x
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Well done why should you put your brothers wifes brother up
Thats for her family to do not you or yours
Unless they volunteer xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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Yes, well done honeybun, it's not easy to be assertive if it's not something you do often... especially with family, I find. I hope everything works out well!
I told my dad (who's in his 80s) about my recent spate of grumpiness/straightforwardness and he congratulated me for standing up for myself at last!
I was with friends last night though, and found myself sinking into the background again. Two friends in particular did 90% of the talking and I wasn't in the mood to compete. I know life is like that, always has been, I just find it bothers me much more than it used to...
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I love to sit back and watch. It's often that others don't notice, they are SOOOOO so busy with themselves ........... it is less of an effort to sit back ;)
However, sometimes it needs s.p.e.l.l.i.n.g out to relatives >:(
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Yep - it's a bit annoying to be with people who talk constantly and don't give you a chance to speak. Tiring too - yawn, yawn.
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I call it people who just wait for their turn to talk
They dont listen to what you or anyone else is taling about
As son as theres a gap they jump in and its mostly all about them
Other thing I dont like is when people never ask about you
Im no saint but when I meet people old and new (I learnt to do this it wasnt easy) I say Hi and ask about them
It makes it easier cos you dont have to say anything and people love to tell you about themselves (I do too)
People remember you as OH that Suzi shes nice her and why cos I LISTEN I DONT JUST WAIT FOR MY TURN TO TALK
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Very true Suzi!
Although, sometimes people are nervous or shy, and try to overcome it. They talk because they want to appear sociable. And as you say, they don't realise the best thing they can do in some situations is simply to be a good listener, or to learn to be an active listener.
Fx
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Yes, a lot of sense being spoken here! In the situation I mentioned I could see that my friends needed to talk (offload?) and I am very used to listening - sometimes people just need 'get things out' to be able to feel better and I'm happy to be the friend they can do it with :). It seems there are quite a few of us here that do that! But with my hormonal ups and downs I'm finding it harder to sit back so much... I have stuff of my own i need to talk about! Unfortunately I realise now that that not many of my friends are the 'listening' kind. There are maybe 2 or 3, just not many of them.
Thankfully, I have a very patient and tolerant hubby who is also a good listener, and I don't know what I'd do without him :D. I hope everyone else in my boat has at least one person they can turn to...
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I think real listeners are born. Others need to learn how, certainly I tend to 'jump in' ......... :-\ and immediately want to :poke2: .....
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:bounce: