Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: Suzi Q on November 16, 2012, 06:35:46 AM
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Lady on another post wondered if there was a list out there
To see how Vagifem 10s working is it as good as 25m
Are you taking more? please reply xxxxxxxxxxx
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I never had the 25 only the 10 and I seem to be ok. My specialist did say that if I felt like it I could use more often if required.
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Suzi I started off on the 10's and was having to use 4 a week and still didn't feel right so my gp upped it to 25's which was better. Don't know what I am going to do when I can only get 10's. Having been stocking up! :)
Katy x
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Suzi, I've got quite bad VA plus Bladder Atrophy - have been on the 10mcg twice weekly for a few months now in readiness of the withdrawal of 25mcg.
Haven't really noticed a difference, however I am on ultra low dose systemic HRT too - plus I'm taking fish oil which I think also helps a bit.
Meno clinic said I can take 10mcg 3 times a week (or on alternate days) - it could be better taken that way - ie. only 30mcg a week - also potentially more benefit, as evenly spread.
[I don't like the amount of waste with those blue plastic applicators - they're not biodegradable - 156 a year if taking x 3. Spoke to Novo Nordisk, however no interest whatsoever from the person who logged my comment!]
Being very sensitive to HRT (and all meds), I find I get less of a "rush" with the 10mcg, think I prefer it. However, time will tell if I get the return of the awful dryness and "cactus" stuck up there sensation on the lowered dose - then will experiment with dosage - for now though, overall I'm finding 10 twice weekly is okay. As we know though, we're all so different, no one size fits all.
Night_Owl
x
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Hey Night owl where ya bin girl xxxxxxxxxx
It was a lady on here who wondered IM still on Vagifem 25 and have 7 pkts of 15 in my draw plus 2 rpts so 4 more pks
Chemists here in ozz have heard nothing but in Ozz we will get all the pks no longer sold in the Nrthn Hem till all gone
Theyve it before Pharm companies use the Southern Hemp to get rid of stuff no longer in USA and EU/UK
Then it just vanishes overnight with OHH we decided not good for you THE hypocrytes
I dont take HRT and at 58 and 16 years posteno wouldnt be given it I dnt suppose never had it only had the mini pill
Took that as a b/control for 2 years in UK as I couldnt take the normal pill so I uderstand sensativity to stuff
I dont get a :rush: what do you mean? I hope you dont get a cactus fammy back and the lower dose and hrt is fine x
As for the blue aplicators theres nothing we can do really short of burning them but thnk of the toxins if we did?
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I am on the 10mcg 3 -4 (every other night) times a week and i like it, little and often. I don't like a big hit of something and then nothing for several days. I am quite happy with the 10s.
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My GP changed me to 10 and I had to use 4 or 5 a week, so she gave me 25 again, I have stocked up a bit!
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It sounds liike so far 10m is fine but used 3/4 times a week
Maybe in the end that is the way to go 3/4 times but what a palaver Id be forgetting hehehehe xxxxxxx
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You get used to it, either every other day or Tues, Thurs Sat and Sun :)
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Hey Suzi, re: VF 'rush' - being highly 'medication sensitive' (lucky me) when I use the 25mcg, the absorption/effect seems to be systemic, maybe because everything has thinned out so much, even the teeny tiny dose of estro gets into my bloodstream - difficult to explain the 'rush', a sensation, makes me feel strange, a bit headachey, woozy, spaced out, how I felt on high dose HRT - know it definitely is the VF as I've been taking it for quite a few years now and it's the same woozy feeling every time - however the 10 doesn't do this, so much prefer it. I'm also on a miniscule dose patch HRT + prog.
Lately I've been having a really rotten time, both parents in hospital, meno cr@p still getting me down and other health issues now kicking in, so nothing positive to contribute I'm afraid.
At least you're stocked up - hopefully when the time comes to use the 10, you'll do good on it or maybe even find it better.
Night_Owl
x
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Night owl i got the same effect with the 25s it is why i changed to the 10s. I don't get it with the 10s even though i use it 4 times a week so i agree with you.
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Interesting, Jane R, that you get the rush too - amazing isn't it how such a small dose can have quite an effect. On the non-VF days, I use Vitamin E Pessaries and always wash with aqueous cream, not soap. It's a real battle isn't it!
Night_Owl
x
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you mean side affects? Like Headaches etc
When you said rush I thought you meant a HIGH like speed?
Thank good nes for that hehehe
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Night owl i have also started using aqueous cream i made a thread about it a few weeks ago. Since then i have not had any trouble with any soreness dry skin or itching it is amazing. In the past i can get through a tube of E45 itch relief in a few weeks at this time of year.
My doctor said i am hypersensitive to oestrogen as i could not tolerate even the smallest dose of HRT either perhaps that is why i was such a crackpot when i still had my own oestrogen ::)
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Glad its working for you
Wonder why your sens to your own hormone?
Did they give you a reason?
I did watch a TV show Em Bodies where a women had all her bits inside removed cos of PMT at 28
They put her on some drug for a few months if it worked then she had the operation they did so she did!
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I don't know, i have a metabolic disorder and don't process things at all well, drugs alcohol anyhting synthetic so maybe because it was a synthetic oestrogen (I was joking about my own oestrogen i am a crackpot anyway ::))
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Join the club hehehehehehe
OM an actor the world outside my house never knows whats going on in my life or mind
Im everyones idea of a real happy go lucky dippy chick people flock to me all wanna be with me cos Im fun
Not boasting its the truth they see me with the big smile and always up for fun take jokes on the chin
Yet none of them know the real me its all a mask only on here my family and 4 long time pals know the real me
IM very serious very anylitacal even if I cant spell it Im quite clever I act daft so knowone will expect anything from me
Its all a game none of them know about my AV or my nerv breakdown i was seeing most of them at the time too
I was being treated i tell kowone anything yet everyone tells me everything cos they know I will never tell anyone
Sometimes it would be nice to be able to undurdsen myself as they are telling me ll their worries and problems
Some seem so silly to me but to them its not and i try every day to be the nicest person i can be
One girl said to me are you like you are all the time I said like what she said HAPPY so FUNNY I said yes its just me
Id like to have said NO i get hurt angry upset like everyone but who wants that in a social setting so i act a part
Is it a good thing no its bad cos i have a wall and i dont let anyone in except 1 girl these are the ULY group people
Yet my old pals over 30 years see a diff me they know the real me with them I can relax but its ny fault maybe???
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Someone once said i was a chameleon because i will be whatever i think is expected of me in any situation, rarely be real, it is a personality disorder but i am learning and getting better.
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Oh no are you saying they are withdrawing Vagifem 25s? For why? I love em. Almsot normal fanny again!
I know I could do 10 every other night bu it more expensive. Struglling as is with cost of oestrogel, cyclgets and vagifem. Held together with pills and patches as Abfab said.
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Does anyone know why Vagifem25 has been withdrawn?
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It all stemmed from the USA where the FDA there asked Novodisk to use as low a dose of oestrogen as possible. Now the same guidelines are being applied to the product in the UK. We had this thread running on it http://www.menopausematters.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,18986.msg292478.html#msg292478 - well it mentions it anyway - and there are probably others if you do a search.
The advice with Vagifem used to be to use for so many months and then have a withdrawal period but Vagifem then said that it was ok to use it continuously. Now the dosage is being lowered so maybe it is to take the continuous usage into account.
Taz x
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IM nto disagreeing with you Taz
BUT Vagifem 25m x 15 just over 9.00 pounds
Vagifem 10m pk 24 is 125 less Vagifem and yet it just over 16.00 pkt
So over 7.00 more for 125m less product ahmmm I think dosh plays a massive part
Ladies will need more scripts OK not all but bet at least 50% will need the 50n a week
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Hi All -
For information purposes -
Well, I'm back on this thread to eat my words. VF 10mcg x twice weekly has now proved to be insufficient - all of a sudden, almost overnight things seemed to get worse in the undercarriage - had an awful UTI, haven't had one since a succession of episodes in 2009/2010, antibiotics cleared it up but thought 'OH NO, not this back again' - also notice bladder sensitivity / urge incontinence has stepped up again, plus intimacy more painful - so I'll have to up the dose of 10 VF to x 4 per week or alternate days.
Just hoping my new GP (recently moved area) will be obliging with upping the prescription as I'll need to take more - hopefully I'll get the meno clinic to recommend it so there won't be an issue.
Night_Owl
x
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Good luck with this night owl i use 4 a week and occasionally an extra one for luck, less than this i get dryness soreness and feeling of needing to p.u.
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Thanks Jane R, will have to work out which days to take it and get into a new routine, maybe alternate days will be the easiest.
Six years on and still in disbelief at what meno can do to the body (but only for some, not others eh!) - maybe one would expect vag/bladder issues later in life but not at 50, sigh. Tena Lady is not something I want to add to my weekly shop now or in the future. Uro-gynae says my whole vag/bladder atrophy is made worse by weakened pelvic floor muscles from lifelong constipation/straining, nice eh - sorry if TMI.
The meno clinic have been trying for years now to find me a tolerable HRT regime - now on ultra low dose - HALF of lowest (25) patch - plus separate progesterone pessaries - sequi regime, but I get no bleed. Just about bearable - however symptom control is not that good. VA often requires systemic as well as topical estro replacement, this may be the case with me as it's all dropped down so far!
Jane, I am the same re hypersensitivity to meds, alcohol, certain foods (mum is the same too) - I must have a metabolic disorder (allergy related maybe) never had it diagnosed - do you mind me asking if/how you had yours diagnosed? Life would be so much easier if I could just take the flipping meds without always getting the worst side effects, in spite of perseverance.
Night_Owl
x
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I started of on 25 mg Vagifem nearly two years ago but changed to 10 mg twice a week summer 2011. i was really worried about changing but it soon settled down and if I have an off day I just use an extra one.
My bigger worry is getting it prescribed at all ,as new gp doesn't believe in presecribing it for ever. It had made a world of difference to my quality of life especially the irritable bladder I had .
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Some ladies now have the stress of the pain reacuring the fear of not being able to persuade GP to give more rpts
So also for some a real dear doo using 4 or even 5 =50 only 2 so in the end 16.00 maybecome nearer 32,00
Dont ever say to them or me it wasnt done for dosh reasons first and forenost
NOw since change some ladies will be paying 32.00pounds to get pain relief that in 2011 it was 9.00pounds
Sorry Mammno rules xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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Got prescription today - still 25mcg, and obtained them easily enough - maybe the change hasn't quite filtered through to pharmacy stocks yet.......
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Yayyyyyyyyyyyy
Oh Pinch Punch forst of the month
WHITEEEEEEEEE BUNNIIEEESSSSSSSS ;D
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I have been on the 10mcgs now for just 10 days after having done so well on the 25s for years and am really worried about how effective it will be.
I am 60 and was prescribed Vagifem 25 several years ago now for really bad atrophy. A little bit of oestrogen did get into my system, I know, and it was really great and suited me very well.
Please can anyone share their experiences eg barchesterlass and lynne who were facing the same problem a while back I think.
Thanks in advance, folks.
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Just give it a week or so see how you go
If the syptoms start back then take another one 3x10 see how that goes
You may find 2/3x7 is fine work it ut you know your own body
Then when rpt time comes just tell GP you have upped the dose NO arguments xxxxx
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Thanks SuzyQ. I have a review with GP in 3 weeks time. By then I will have given it a fair chance. I have already had to use an extra one as I had a burning bladder after one week, but I also have IC and had a very challenging week of doing everything I shouldn't to irritate it, including sitting in a hot tub, so shouldn't really blame the Vagifem!!!
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I have just dropped down last week,my Dr as oly given me enough 10,s for a month at. 2 x10 a week,I am struggling,last week I was in Spain on holiday ended up going to see Dr at health centre with water infection,I know it was from the lowering of the Vagifem as I have VA,Irritable bladder,all that contributes to being post menopausal,we had sex whilst on holiday- as you do! I ended up in sheer agony,literally overnight,UTI,soreness,up going to the loo all night,- dreadful, and getting antibiotics,I now have Thrush and have had to go and buy Canestan Duo,I have only been on 2x10mgfor a week and am already struggling like before,I am going to start using the 10,s every other day,and going back and explaining to the Dr,I need more prescript s.,Certainly cannot go back to this way of life.
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Scriv i have Pm 'd you
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It ends up in a way being quality of life
Women risk with HRT dangers ahead you all know about them and accept
But as Ive said prev imagine if HRT pills doages were lowerd by almost 2/3rd a pill thered be riots
People who cant take HRT and rely on Vagifem seem to becoming more and more for a myriad of reasons
My life before Vagifem was unbearable and last October when 2 started to fail I was incandecent
Ladies here persuaded me to do a reload directing me to sites that GPS advised a reload EVERY year and that was 25s
I did 10 days in December and so far had about 5 iffy days since then to me my quality of life isbest
I decided that just like the Pill and HRT Pills that using Vagifem was a risk I was wiling and happy to take
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Eltonia, that's just like me really. Just one week after the 10s at twice weekly the flaring and burning started as before. It's not two weeks yet and I have had to have an extra one. Used another last night as per the usual routine and was more than ready for it I can tell you! That helped the burning, but it's not at all right.
Anyway, have decided to use them as I need them and bring forward my review date with the GP as this is in no way managing the condition which had been kept at bay for years with the 25s. Grrrr..
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Honesdly its like saying to HRT pill ladies ok girls instead of 7 a week you can only take 3
Symptoms will return I grant you even so deal with it
Thats what Vagifem manafactureres and GPS are saying
Are they saying that Vagifems been dangerous for us all tihs time
We know HRT isnt the best but knowone suggesting women on HRT should have their dose lowered to 1/3
So either Vagifems OK or we have to take so little to keep it safe for us it doesnt work
Which is it?
Some company will come in soon as Vagifem must be running out of its patent and will make ageneric Vagifem
Wonder if they will up the dose to say 15mg
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I will be interested to hear how you get on with the Ortho- G pessaries... I didn't know about them.
After my big flare up after just 10 days, I am currently using the Vagifem every night for the 2 weeks to re-load it and I have an appointment with my doctor to see what to do about the maintenance dose. I am sure that 2 or 3 times will be no good whatsoever.
I am wondering whether they would agree to us using 5 x weekly? After all,that would be the same total?
This is all awful.
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Unfortunately. the Ovestin cream irritates me >:(
Are the Ortho-Gyn pessariies the same size or format as the Vagifem tabs?
I agree about this being the absolute worst part of the menopause. Grrrr
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I got a script for vagifem 25 last week from my gp, the pharmacist assured me that he would get some by last Friday. Went this morning to collect them and guess what he still hasn't got any but says he will keep trying. What's the betting he can't get them and I will have to see gp again ::)
Oh and I certainly agree that VA is by far the worst symptom of menopause.
Katy x
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I would be very surprised if your pharmacist does get them, Katy as they have definitely been discontinued.
Hope you are lucky though.
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I know that they have been discontinued but was really hoping the pharmacist could get some old stock, not looking forward to having to use the 10's at all as I was on them before the 25's and they didn't help at all. Oh well perhaps I'll have to try Ovestin cream or the orthogynest pessaries and hope for the best.
Katy x
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It's had no effect on me but I only used the 25's for 3 months. If I get times when things do not seem to be working as well I just use an extra 10 in between and it all sorts out. It really is only an extra 1 or 2 a month usually. My guess is that as the 25's are discontinued, they have been withdrawn from everywhere and you won't get them. Give the 10's a good go, the first few weeks I changed over I felt things were not as good but it all settled down.
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It's an awful shock to me as I have been on Vag 25 for at least 6 years for severe atrophy and dryness and I was doing very well on it. It's the only HRT that I use and as I had the menopause 20 years ago, it is my oestrogen supply. I am waiting to see if this burning will go away again after the 2 weeks re-loading and then will talk with my doctor about what to do. It's grim.
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Lynne you will read that over 1/3 of the ladies cant cope with only 20m a week instead of 50m
Its a huge difference over half less and the pain its not just sex that most could grin and cope with it
Its the rest the burning the aching throbbing suction feeling
The Bartholin glands swelling red raw peeing is like peeing battery acid the constant pressure to wee 20 times a day
In tuen makes oyur abdo ache like a 1000 bees in there I used to lie back and imagine there was a huge absess and it would pop and my lower abdo region would just go pain I mean Youe labias shrivel and burn your cliroras is blood red
VA is the worst thing and as was said about ortho press with no aplicator hellooo infection shoving it up with your bare hands OH very hygenic not money saving again these are all designed by men with dirty minds
sure they are thinking we reg shove hands up ourselves YUK
Im in Ozz have 3 pkts of 15 left and 3 rpt scripts Im going back to chemists tomorrow see if theyve run out here yet
In Jan theyd never heard of lowering the dose GP or Chemist mind ozz is a dumping ground so new Vagifem tomorrow x
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Picked up my 30 vagifem 25's from the chemist yesterday phew! Whether I'll get my next lot in a couple of months time I don't know but at least I've got plenty for now. The use by date is 02/15.
Katy x
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Where are you Katy?
If your in England or Britain
Get a new script go back to GP say they are disconinuing and want to stock up
Its no worry to him
Or you could lie and say youve lost your script I know its wriong but anyway to get them
Isnt it shocking that we are being reduced to this Ive now got 7 Ful of 15 7weeks x 7 weeks = 49 weeks worth
Got 2 more rpt will ring GP Monday and ask for another script I just go to a diff chemist I pay for them so I dont care
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My update.... saw my wonderful doctor and everything is so much better again, almost back to normal :)
I used the new 10mcg daily for 2 weeks to deal with the flare up and to build up the levels again and am now using 5 x 10mcg spread over the week.
The aim is to working towards 4 x 10mcg spread across the week or 2 x 10mcg twice weekly, depending on what suits best.
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Fab well done you I think I could get away now with 2x25x 8 days
But s I had the blip in October and reloaded for 10 days in December Im not yet game to try
I now have 8 pkts of 15x25 in my bathroom cub
Got a new script 1 and 2 rpts 25mg so going to get them over the next 3 weeks or so
They must be putting them down here in Ozz if they must have had loads left but stopped selling in December
In Ozz we normally get the dregs of all drugs etc dumped here till they run out
KOWONE honestly thought they just stop selling almost overnight and not have some plan for the huge reserve?
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Hi Scriv et al - I got authorisation from the meno clinic to use VF 10mcg on alternate days plus a dab of Ovestin cream on the outside - it has worked really well for a few months now. (Also on three-quarters of Estraderm 25 + progesterone pessaries x 10 days every 8 weeks).
Think alternate day usage has been discussed before, it's def the way to go for me.
Good luck with it.
Night_Owl
x
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To add to this thread
Firstly there has been discussion about Ovestin/Orthogynest Vs Vagifem - so just to clarify thatOvestin?Gynest contain (O)Estriol and Vagifem is (O)Estradiol. Estriol is a much weaker oestrogen thasn estradiol but does the job very well in the vaginal area.
If you were relying on the Vagifem to give you a bit of systemic oestrogen then the other sort won't give you this in the same way as most HRT uses estradiol which does it's stuff throughout the body, so you may notice other symptoms creeping in.
scriv - I suggested elsewhere that women might try to use two at once (of 10 mcg Vagifem) twice a week, rather than increase the frequency (bit of a killjoy for intimacy this one!) as you will not then be dropping the dose by very much.
So then the task is to persuade the GP to prescribe twice as many. So why would this GP not prescribe more and go puce on 3 x per week? Cost I presume - well tough!! If the GP won't then I would suggest challenging him (was it?).
This is what everyone could be doing who is suffering from the reduced dose.
Maybe if no joy then try to see a meno-specialist in the practice or get referred if possible to a meno-clinic.
Hope this helps
Hurdity x
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Hi Hurdity
I can't remember which lady it was who had the GP who turned puce. It certainly wasn't mine. No mention from my doctor as to the cost or a problem with prescribing more.Thankfully she - was completely focused on what would be best for me.
We discussed the 2 x 10 versus the 4 x 10 weekly and I am to try it and see. In my personal case - and we are all very different - the 4 x 10 works best than double dosing twice a week.
I wonder if the GPs are getting advice from any uk medical body on this issue?
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Yes youd have to ut one in then wait a few hours for it to be absobed then out another one in sod that
4x10 is still less it was 3x25 but its better far than 20m by 7 Id not be game to put 2 in at once
Id thinkn of it not absorbing or falling out and to use it every 3rd night or even every second nights not a problem
GPS are seeing that 10m is not enough 2 times a week are starting to understand up to 8months or so later new regime
NOT working but its money money money nd now with doubling up scripts and more appts time unless you have a GP
Who will have ring up rpts for up to 12mnths like i have the nit will also cost the surgery money to see you
Why is it always down to money
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I'm in this club! Went to the GP for a repeat prescription of 25 vagifem last week, got to the chemist who said its no longer available, so went back to the GP. Was given Ortho Gynest pessaries. I'll reserve judgement, but I'm very scared that they won't do the job. Ive only used two so far. Fingers crossed. It's all just so horrible, I had no idea about all these awful symptoms, just heard about hot flushes (in a jokey way), never knew about hardly being able to sit down, constant UTI, painful intimacy etc etc. Such common symptoms, yet rarely talked about. So many women feeling so isolated. :-\
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Give it ago 2 weeks if they start returning symptoms i mean
back to GP say you want to use Vagifem 4x10 in 8 days see how that goes still only 40 in 8
Still less then 50 in 7days So you will need more on your scripts
I think we have to say nay even demand care
The Vagifem company certainly hs a lot to answer for medicaly and financially
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My pharmacy told me a few months ago that I needed to go back to my GP and ask for a new prescription for 10mcg because they could no longer supply 25mcg. To save having to make an appointment (and be number 50 in the automated phone queue ::)) I wrote and requested this and said that the pharmacy would collect the new prescription.
When I collected the Vagifem though, the pharmacy told me it was only a one off prescription and not a repeat and that I would have to go back to the GP to ask for a repeat. Grrrr!
So I wrote another letter 2 weeks ago explaining all this and asking for a repeat prescription to be left for the pharmacy to collect.
Guess what - the pharmacy told me on Tuesday that no prescription has been left.
So now it looks like I have to make an appointment just to get this to happen.
I have noticed that I need to wee a lot more often since starting the 10mcg Vagifem - not noticed any other problems yet.
ariadne xx
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Sorry not to have been on much had a lot of problems in the family but Ive nipped on and read from time to time
Hells bells Vagifem its proving hard so far not changed in Ozz but Im waiting to go get the next script and find 10s only
You will have to go see GP have a chat and get the right script 10s but more say 5rpts
Yes you will notice more wanting to wee the Vagifems evidently not getting up to the kneck of the bladder as much
HUGE HUGS go make appt and say YOU NEED IT END OF xx
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Reporting back..... had two weeks on 10mcg x 4 weekly and it was ok - but only just and inserting on 4 nights was a bit of a hassle.
So I then tried 2 x 10mcg together x 2 weekly and actually found quite a difference in personal comfort and also an improvement in general wellbeing as if some was being absorbed into the system. Almost like the old days of the 25s!
Inserting one directly after the other has proved no problem at all either. I just have not felt them at all and there has been no irritation or mess.
It really annoys me that this decision was taken on a very small sample of women with such varying conditions and ages, regardless on whether they were pre-peri or post menopause and whether they were on other HRT or whether they already had low/high oestrogen levels. Also, they openly state that they have very limited experience in the over 65+. Well, I may not be over 65, but my body is - having had a very early natural menopause.
And yet they then come out with a one-size-fits-all statement that 10mcg twice weekly will be just as effective for every woman.
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Hope you can continue on the twice weekly dose of 2 x 10mg. I have yet to try the 10mgs....not looking forward to it.
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Hope they also are able to prescribe double on the same prescription because you need it scriv!
The stats on which that statement was based are rubbish anyway (the thing about the 10 mcg) . I looked at the papers quoted. It was a very limited study and because it was statistically significant they say it's OK. But it wasn't 100 % response therefore there will be a significant minority of women for whom it is ineffective!
Hurdity x
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Yes, my doctor has set it up as a repeat prescription and doubled the previous amount. :)
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That is good news Scriv. Hope my new GP is as understanding.
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Mine is a true star! Hope yours is as helpful.
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Mine didn't double it. In my first letter, I asked if I would get more pessaries to use more often as they were lower dose. There was a note attached to my Vagifem saying 10mcg twice a week was shown to have as much benefit as 25mcg!
ariadne xx
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Either go in and say does that makes sence so only Heart pills every 3rd day or HRT every 3rd day printout from net
Take it show him/her irf still no
Change your GP you dont have to be in pain and as long as oyu have your smear every 2/3 years which ever it is
Go see GP if your worried about anything then do it knowone should suffer but we dont count we are inviasable now
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I would suggest giving it a go, to see if the lower dose does work for you.
If so, great - and if not, you will be presenting evidence to your doctor that you need a higher dose or a different regime.