Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: Lynne888 on June 01, 2012, 11:12:29 AM
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I know problems with sleeping can be a menopause problem, but I wondered just how many of you actually DO suffer with this? I haven't slept very well for a few years, in fact, some nights I have to go into the guest bedroom because I toss and turn so much and OH has to be up at 5.30am! It is definitely getting worse and worse. The irritable leg syndrome I seem to get with it is also really troublesome :( Does anyone take anything for this or has it improved with anything? Help with this would be very much appreciated! Last night, I couldn't get to sleep as per normal, managed to dose off sometime after 12.30AM, woke at 1.30AM and then was awake until 4.30AM. I watched it get lighter and lighter, read my kindle, went to the loo 5 times - this now seems quite a normal night for me. I must have dozed off sometime after 4.30 and then woke at 8.50AM (late for me) in an absolute panic!! It's thrown me out for the day! I'm getting to dread bedtime because I can't stand the battle I have to get to sleep and then stay asleep! Perhaps I should get a night time job?!! Lady of the night is out because of the other meno issues!!! #readyfortheknackersyard
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Personally, I didn't have any sleeping problems until peri hit. I ended up waking up with a jerk every hour with an adrenaline surge and became completely exhausted. I used a hypnotherapy recording to get to sleep (still do) but that was no help when it was every hour. Thankfully, HRT has sorted it for me. I still occasionally have a wakeful hour in the middle of the night and if the recording doesn't work, I get up, have a cup of tea and do a sodoku and usually get back to sleep ok after that.
Bette x
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Oh yes, you are definetely not alone. My sleepless nights started a couple of years ago at peri . My main problem is actually getting off to sleep which can take hours and hours and is so frustrating particularly when hubby is fast asleep and snoring >:( Used to be just in the time leading up to my period for quite a few nights but has now progressed to any time of the month. Haven't had a period since April and now the hot flushes are so much worse I am waking with those as well. It's great fun isn't it?
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I've had sleep problems for years too and its sooo frustrating when you get so tired during the day. My sister gets the same thing and I wonder if there might be a genetic link there. As far as leg problems at night I know some ladies have had relief with extra iron or calcium also there is a tablet (OTC) called Restless Legs by Hylands that might help. I take Melatonin every night or I would'nt get any sleep at all plus a milky drink before bedtime (Ovaltine) also I stay off the computer that seems to make matters worse. Hope this helps:) :o
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Seems we are all nocturnal at the moment! I probably didn't word the email well, I meant had anyone found anything to help with the irritable leg syndrome? I realise that the sleeping issue is a bigger ask!! Well I will have to see what tonight brings. I dread going to bed. I don't have a TV in the bedroom (I know! 1960's or what!!!) and I only resort to the ipad if I am so wide awake it is apparent that unless someone hits me over the head with a hammer I am not going to sleep!!!
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I used to sleep really well before meno hit, during peri i only slept 2days before my period and 2days during, then it was back to hot sweats, had them nearly 13yrs now, been on HRT for 3yrs, but it as not stopped night sweats, so like Susan i have to take sleeping tabs, although i cut them in half and only use 2per week..I do not have have Tv in room, but read before going to sleep on nights with tablet i sleep 4hrs, without tablet i sometimes fall to sleep about 2am, have sweats evey 40mins, then zonk out around 7am for 90mins..but i do feel i could sleep longer if the sweats did not wake me..
Susan what tablet do you take?..Annika what dose of Melatonin do you take?
Lynne really hope you do find something to help with RLS. and its not a hammer.. :o xx
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LIke Susan and rosebush and others, I found that one of my main menopause symptoms was sleep! I use to take zopiclone ( half a tablet) a couple of times week, but am finally sleeping well without them ( over two months now) what I do use is melatonin in the form of a spray, this is the one
(http://www.red23.co.uk/images/medium/melatonin%20200.gif)
It is a little expensive but lasts for ages, it contains a few other things and it works for me.
silverlady x
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Lack of sleep is just awful, my sleep has defo gone to pot since hitting peri. A side effect of the ads I take does help me, but sometimes I can takes ages going to sleep. I often feel tired around half ten then bingo, as soon as my head hits the pillow I'm wide awake. It's very annoying, but to be honest a lot of my friends had problems with sleeping once menopausal, thankfully it has improved for some. I have to say (and I know he can't help it) my hubby's snoring does not help.
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Yep my husband's snoring is just awful when I'm awake which is one of the reasons I go to another room! Not great I know!! Silverlady, with the melatonin, I notice there are sprays and tablets, is there a difference? With the spray, do you have to spray it in your mouth? In the past (before perimeno) I have taken Nytol and they DID work but gave me dreadful headaches so I have been afraid to take them since. My GP also gave me atarax (more to relax me to stop me running to the loo!) - I found that helped me sleep better but I stopped taking it because I felt it was causing me the RLS!! Vicious circle and all that!!! x
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When all meno symptoms hit i went from sleeping like a log to laying virtually all night with no sleep. Some days i went into work on only half an hours sleep. Not sure how i did it. I am on hrt and take 10mg amitriptyline which does help me sleep. I do get about 7 hours now on a good night. Do listen to a relaxation cd when i get a bad night - it does seem to help.
Lesley x
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I suppose that if you have always been a good sleeper then getting poorer sleep must hit much harder than for someone who has always slept badly. I have never slept well even from a baby and when the sleeplessness got worse with meno I just sort of adjusted my going to bed time. I eventually discovered that going to bed at 1 meant I got to sleep faster than if I tried at 11. I am in bed for around five hours but I wake up quite a lot during this time. It is this lack of sleep which has apparently led to fibromyalgia. I find that if I worry about it or get uptight about it then I am much more tired in the day but if I just go with it then it evens out. I expect I am lucky in that I don't appear to need that much sleep - not to function anyway - although I do realise that it is not good for you overall to sleep too little. To be honest I have always hated being asleep - scared I might miss something. :lol:
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Irritable legs can be helped by eating lots of bananas, it is caused by low potassium. I'm aware of mine in the day but the moment I get into bed they start >:( I may take Nurofen tonight because I forget to eat a banana today ...........
Nigths when I can't sleepw ell I have my NintendoDS to play with. So long as my mind doesn't begin racing I don't feel too bad as I know I will catch up another night .........
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I'll let you know what tonight's events are like! I've taken an atarax and I've eaten a banana! Lets see if it goes any way to getting me to sleep!!
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What time do you actually go to bed Lynne?
Taz x
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It all depends. Usually about 11.30. I read a bit to try and relax. Honestly, if I was told standing in the garden naked an hour before singing Abba songs would help, I'd do it (in fact, I may have done this before anyway!!)
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Ha ha - are you normally sleepy by the time you go to bed? It's sometimes worth waiting around for longer before trying to get to sleep.
Taz x
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I've just come up to bed now. I have to say it depends on a lot of things what time I go to bed. If I'm not watching anything on tv it's usually 11.30 - 12 but it can be one or two if I'm watching something or doing something. Fortunately I work at home as I have my own business so it doesnt matter if im knackered in the day that much but I do wonder how I would manage to work if things were different. I'm wide awake so I'm not even going to try to sleep at this point!
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Yes I have also suffered a lot of sleep problems. It seems to come with menopause territory. I certainly understand the frustration of wanting to sleep, but just not being able to.
Fortunately, for me, HRT has helped in that area a lot, but I still have some nights where I'm not able to sleep. I think what I eat before going to bed has a lot to do with it though. Anything high sugar doesn't seem to agree with me.
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The few things I did before going to bed seem to have done the trick! I know it probably won't continue and of course, it could just be that I was totally knackered from the night before! I dropped off sometime after 1AM, got up to go to the loo (don't know the time) then dropped straight back off and got up at 8AM so that was a real improvement! Wonder if it was the banana!!!
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Pleased to hear that Lynne. Bananas are supposed to be good for sleep. My grandfather always had to have a banana before he went to bed because he said it helped him sleep.
I often have a small glass of milk before going to bed too. Not sure if it helps, but I seem to get to sleep okay.
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I have found this - I can't post the whole link as it has a buy now facility
"Eat a banana before going to bed for better sleep
Office fruit box news:
Eating a banana before going to bed can aid a restful night's sleep, according to health experts.
Bananas contain an amino acid called tryptophan which is thought to convert into a calming and sleep-inducing chemical in the brain called serotonin, states the NHS.
The yellow fruits also contain vitamin B12, which experts believe could help to combat insomnia and also trigger endorphins – otherwise known as feel-good brain chemicals – which have a relaxing effect to reduce stress.
As if that was not enough, this all-round super-food is a rich source of potassium, magnesium and calcium.
A study carried out last year by the University of New England in Australia states that bananas "may help cure sleep disorders and snoring."
Researchers also suggested that drinking a banana smoothie before bed is an effective cure for sleep apnoea – a potentially life-threatening disorder which causes sufferers to experience difficulty breathing during sleep. "
Taz x
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I keep a banana by the bed now. If I wake in the night and can't drop straight off, I eat some of it; it's also useful for that anxiety surge which sometimes appears first thing in the morning. If it's a good night and I don't eat it, it goes on my breakfast porridge. :P
Bette x
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I find they give me indigestion nowadays which is very annoying! :cuss:
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Lynne pleased you got some sleep :) good link Taz , i will give the banana a try tonight, along with a glass of milk.... :)
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banana milk shake then with ice-cream - funny how we soon get back to food ;D
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Its interesting that melatonin interacts with progesterone at night , it could be one of the reasons why women start to find sleep more diffficult once progesterone starts to drop.
http://www.digitalnaturopath.com/cond/C304473.html
silverlady x
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I def get this and when restless leg starts it is even worse as my leg is under the covers then out then in. I put this cooling gel on now and that seems to help. I think if you can't sleep you feel worse the next day. At mo it is worse cos I live in Spain and the nights are so humid, I just have a sheet on cos I have to have something covering me. I try to do a bit of relaxation and that helps send me off. Hope you get more sleep Lynne888
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Lynne I can fully sympathise! You could have been describing me including the snoring husband! ;D
I have had problems with hot legs at night, which can be one of the symptoms of restless legs. However, I changed recently to a higher dose of HRT and the hot legs are much more bearable now and the sleeping is much better too. I'm on oestrogen only though.
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Yes I do the legs in and then out of the bed too.. throw covers off completely, then throw them back on, turn one way, then the other, legs out again, then in...I should be about 8 stone all the exercise I get.. really though it is very distressing at it's worst! I've no doubt last night lulled me into a false sense of security! We have family staying tonight so it will be worse if I'm suffering as I can't escape to the guest bedroom! The annoying thing is that I find I'm quite anxious about it even now and it's not midday yet!! lol
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Hmmmm...not sure the bananas would last a week. Bought some yesterday and they have gone quite brown today so my guess is by Monday they will be no good! DO love bananas and eat a couple a day but not late at night as I too get indigestion usually!! Anyway, will try anything - I've fallen to sleep on the sofa in front of the log burner (I know, June and log burner but it really is cold in this old house!!) It will do me no favours tonight when I need to sleep!!
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So don't worry. Your body has 'caught' up in front of the log burner. Take a book/music/TV and remember: you have slept already. you will not need as much tonight ;) ..........
Bananas often are still pale inside even if the skins are brown!
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Oh I know! prefer my bananas very spotty on the outside!! Not sure they keep a week that's all! The odd thing about falling to sleep in the day is that I do not get the RLS then and I do not struggle to go off so what happens once it goes dark to change this!! Spooky!!!
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I like them spotty too Lynne! Though not sure I could go to bed on a banana.
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I buy bananas more than once a week as I have at least one a day, sometimes 2 or 3 and OH eats them too. Neither of us likes them once they are "ripe" (skins going brown) so I buy them unripe and we eat them within a few days.
Bette x
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I buy my bananas every two days or so as they do tend to go off quickly. Going to bed on a banana has a different connotation for me but that's just my mind :ange: :ange: :ange:
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Going to bed on a banana will be squishy ;) add to that sugar and cream and the sheets will need washing :-X
Lynne88 - when I was very depressed and bothered by nightmares I slept a lot on the settee [for months]. I didn't dream nor did I have restless legs ..............
Tonight I will have my bubble bath, climb into a badly made bed ::), read a bit, maybe watch TV then if possible doze. I know what will keep me awake, we have to be up earlier than usual :P
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I bought one of those magnesium oil sprays that are supposed to aid sleep and stop restless legs. I've been using it for a week or so and I'm disappointed to say that so far it's made no difference at all but it could be early days. Perhaps I've been going to sleep quicker but I'm waking up in the early hours and then I can't go back to sleep for an hour or two. I sleep better when it's cooler and when my husband is working away because he snores and breathes loudly and it disturbs me.
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Hahaha... I wondered how long it would be before someone talked about *bananas*!! I've had two brown-ish bananas today..Lucky me eh and no pain involved!! ;D
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Susan, you could be a good girl and eat your banana in 30 minutes, then another in the morning and then again tomorrow night!
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Ladies found this it mention RLS, and hints for sleep?
http://uk.lifestyle.yahoo.com/natural-ways-beat-insomnia-070800216.html
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I had three squirts of my sleep spray last night and zonked out for eight hours last night, it certaily works for me.
I sometimes have a couple of sesame bread sticks just before sleep too.
silverlady x
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Was awake until 1.30 listening to the gentle rain, must have had an 1" since 9.30 p.m.. Woke with the alarm at 6.40 after busy, silly dreams ::)
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Alarm on a Sunday CLKD???? :lol:
Went to bed at around 2 which was disappointing as I wanted to stay up long enough to see that my son's plane had taken off from Atlanta at 2.45 but was too tired. I didn't hear his text arrive at 4 to say he was safely landed which is a first for me! Woke up at 6 and got up then as I hate laying in bed.
Taz :)
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Susan.. PMSL!!! :banana:
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We could have a sleep-off!! Susan - you got seven hours. I got four hours - anyone for five or six?
Talking of little sayings... when I was with my son yesterday at Heathrow we were going to the departures gate and just as I said "All these people going places" he said exactly the same at the same time. I found this amazing and then he said "Mum, that's what you ALWAYS say and that's what runs through my head at every airport I ever visit - your voice chimes in from somewhere!" :lol:
Taz x
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UP because 'they' have the annual sports competition today ::) .... been months in the planning so it has to be done!
Bananas can be eaten any time in the 24 hours, so that they don't 'lay' on your chest ;D ......... just have one/2 every so often which helps the potassium levels which is the cause for restless legs.
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Bananas give me dreadful indigestion since meno though which, according to my GP, is very common. My dad never found that his massive consumption of bananas helped with his restless legs (Ekbom(?) syndrome) and he had medication which worked really well. Can't remember what it was now though.
Susan - I do have pain but it is manageable. My wrists, elbows and knees are the worst a the moment and I find that I have to rest between jobs some days. When I get really tired I can't formulate my thoughts, can't type properly either and feel like the plug has been pulled. It is the fuzzy brain which I find hardest to cope with at school. I have to see the health department each time my hours are increased and they give me a thorough questioning as to how I am feeling!
Taz x
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The one I remember most (and live by!) is "Never run after a man or a bus"!!!
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;D you could add that to our 'sayings' thread ;) which I bumped this morning ......... :whist:
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I feel as though I wake up every time I turn over, whether or not I do or am dreaming its hard to say, because I force myself not to look at the clock!! However, I notice it has become worse during the warmer lighter weather. I try not to worry about it, and some nights only have 4 or 5 hours several nights in a row. As I don't feel too tired in the morning I don't worry, and can get the bulk of my work done, :-\ but come the afternoon I'm usually quite knackered!! I do take melatonin to help, and it does, but when autumn comes I tend to sleep more normally again. This is the worse peri symptom for me - the problems with sleeping, which have become worse in the past year. Hoping it will go off, but as we get older we need less sleep. My friend made a banana cake today, so after 2 slices, hoping for a great nights sleep!!
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;) hi i was waking up early every morning from 4am :o was getting desparate for some sleep! i bought menopace night ;) they really help and i sleep a lot better worth a try! :) good luck
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Following the banana cake, this is how I slept last night, which is quite good! I went to sleep at 12.30, woke at 2.30, then around 4 and finally woke up at 7.30am. Very hot again last night, so I have put all cotton sheets on the bed and a summer quilt. :)
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I put my summer quilt on weeks ago, still waking up hot on and off though. These night sweats a relatively new phenomena (sp?) for me, maybe it means I'm getting closer to being post meno - hope so .
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Susan the smoothie sounds nice, I couldn't face eating banana last thing at night either, but I do make myself have one every morning no matter how I'm feeling. 2 - 9 is a good night, wouldn't it be great to have 7 hrs every night.
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7 hours would be good, however I've settled to having between 5 & 6 which is fine by me. Had banana at tea time instead.
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I wonder if I am post menopausal, no period now for 6 months! Only 3 periods in the past 12 months and 51 this month! I have had a banana and 4 small glasses of red wine, so will probably have an unsettled night!! :-\
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You need to have had at least a year without periods to be post menopausal Pixie - sorry! I would fall over if I had four glasses of wine :drunk:
Taz x
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Hi Taz,
Just very small glasses of wine. I must admit I only usually have one, but I seem to have eaten a lot this evening with the banana, and its all absorbed the wine!! ??? Will probably be up to the toilet now several times!! P x
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Wishing us all a good sleep - ever hopeful ;)
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I have just got back from the pub and one glass of wine as I was driving. I am lucky in that I only have to get up to the loo in the night if I am sickening for something such as a cold.
Sweet dreams everyone!
Taz x
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After years of sleep woes I think I've tried most things...
The banana idea may well work for some (not me) but I do find a bowl of porridge for supper occasionally helps me settle (hit & miss as it can also keep me awake!) Hot milky drinks lead to the inevitable bathroom trips, as do all the herbal teas I've drunk over the years (and alcohol).
When I begged my GP for a few tamazepam to help me get a couple of decent sleeps she just told me to look into my 'sleep hygiene' (!)
I have lots of aches and pains, along with pins & needles, so can't lay on one side more than an hour without being woken (I take ibuprofen & paracetamols before bed to try to combat this). My sleep pattern tends to go along the lines of: 30 mins, up for the loo, 20 mins, hot flush, roll over, 45 mins, roll over, 15 mins, snoring wakes me so I move rooms, 30 mins, hot flush, trip to the loo, 60 mins, roll over...... It's no wonder I get up feeling shattered!!
I've tried Kalms nights (which initially worked but now make me too sluggish in the mornings). I was on amatriptalyne for a couple of years but had the same problem.
I've doused myself in lavender oil / chamomile oil / ylang ylang etc but that doesn't work (room smells nice though, lol).
Like others have mentioned, OH snoring doesn't help (luckily we have a spare room!)
Glad I'm not alone :)
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Panda - after reading all of the things you have tried I feel exhausted! I think that you will just have to, like me, accept it. Once I stopped fighting it I felt much better and it is surprising how well you can adapt to little sleep. Definitely I felt much worse when I was worrying about it and trying all sorts of things - the very act of trying something put the thought of "I'm not going to sleep" in my mind and so it was impossible to then relax.
Ibuprofen always keeps me more awake by the way.
Taz x
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Hi Taz2,
I tend to agree that I have no choice but to accept my insomnia, although I still try 'remedies' from time to time in case something works.
I don't always take ibuprofen, especially before bed, but it's the only thing that helps with my joint pain (been through all the usual NHS pain-relief options without success).
I did find that white noise sometimes helps (I have a tape machine thingy by my bed) as it gives me something to focus on other than pain / hot flushes / needing the loo / OH snoring etc.
Just glad to know I'm not the only woman suffering this (can feel very isolating at 3am when it seems as if the rest of the world is fast asleep).
Karen x
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A lot of that sounds as if it could be hormonal, though, rather than insomnia as such. I think that you're still trying to get your HRT sorted, panda? ??? Maybe that will help.
I didn't have any sleep problems before peri but then found myself jerking awake with adrenaline surges. Also developed back ache in bed, was woken by night sweats and needing the loo. I have to say that all that has been much improved by HRT.
Bette x
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Hi Bette,
I do hope your right - that HRT will help (once it starts working).
Was on tablets (1mg) but the patches seem to be better (although the Evorel 25 was too low and I got flushes again).
Karen x
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Hi Susan,
I even started taking anti-histamines (drowsy ones) but they didn't help (and possibly didn't mix well with other meds!!)
I do need to accept it....but that's easier said then done when you're on the 3rd night in a row with zero sleep :(
Against my better judgement I've started having a few daytime naps, just so I don't fall over in a heap.
I've had bouts of insomnia all my life (up and down all night when the kids were small became a habit after a while) but these past 2-3 years have been rough.
Meno specialist I saw last week said the testo implant and higher dose of Evorel will help with sleep. Won't hold my breath, lol.
xxx
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Hi Taz,
I think you are right about accepting it. The more we worry about it the worse it is! Last night after the 4 small glasses of red wine, banana and melatonin, I listened to a relaxing CD, which helped, finally went to bed at 12.45 and slept until around 4am, then got up at 7.30 and have been to work, feel fine. That is a good night. I have tried sleeping tablets in the past, which are great for giving you a standard 8 hours, but I feel knackered all morning instead!! P X :) I can't drink too much at night, as I will be in the toilet up to 5 times, so if I do, I sometimes have a horlicks around 9pm, to give it chance to get through before I go to bed. Also it tends to make me very hot if I have it too late!!!
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Hello All,
I'm new to this forum and have been suffering from the most chronic insomnia for two years or more which has not always been related to night sweats.
I became desperate after trying everything out there (20 plus remedies) and finding nothing that worked. My GP initially said I should try Prozac, but I knew I wasn't depressed and opted to have counselling instead, as a result of which I really felt the problem was a physical one. On my next visit to the GP (a female this time!) I was advised that I could't have melatonin until I was 55, another 6 months to wait! However I was prescribed Tridestra (6 days ago) and it is beginning to have some effect. I feel more able to drop off to sleep than I did before, although I am still having hot flushes.
I have also suffered with restless legs in the past and I know only too well the misery it causes. My doctor, after years of suffering, linked it to anemia and as long as I take ferrous sulphate I am ok. I have tried all sorts of things to help RLS in the past, but nothing worked very well. Some pills the doctor gave me actually make me feel faint so I had to stop those although they did work! It does help me to get up and give my legs a really good stretch by trying to touch my toes for 30 seconds and then carefully stretching back up and also stretching my leg muscles. I find this helps me to sleep if I fall asleep within a few minutes of returning to bed.
I have great sympathy for your suffering and know only too well what it is like to have to go to work after little or no sleep the night before. It feels like you haven't been able to shut the door properly on all your yesterdays.
Best Wishes and don't give up.
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If I sleep too deeply and my bladder is full I dream about trying to find a loo ::)
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The NHS is getting very tight with prescribing, as we know!! You can buy melatonin over the counter in the US or even on-line. I buy the Natures Bounty one, that my sister got for me when she recently went to New York. I take a 1mg tablet, but don't take it all the time. I don't need it so much in the darker autumn and winter months, as sleep improves. Just off to make horlicks and banana snack and turn off the bright computer screen to try and wind down for the night. I hope you all have a good nights sleep tonight. Its like winter here, so we might all have a better night. ;)
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Taz, ibuprofen depletes melatonin and interferes with sleep, better to take paracetamol at night if needed.
I am still sleeping like a log, if I do wake up to go to the loo I go back to sleep straight away.
I think once you start sleeping again, after a few days the habit comes back and when you go to bed you stop worrying about if you will sleep or not, you just do.
I use to take zopiclone to help me sleep and it worked very well, but I found it effected my memory and my moods ( making me feel slightly paranoid sometimes) also suprizingly my ability to type ::), thats if I took it more frequently, its fine to take one in a while.
I was determined to stop relying on it and it took about a week , and then I started to sleep without it, you do feel much different once you stop, and much more happier and the world seems a brighter place . I use a couple of sprays of melatonin at night ( melatonin is for much more then sleep) and the natural sleep has kicked in.
I still have half a packet of zopiclone tucked away, its almost like a security blanket, I am hoping though I won't need then again.
The only thing that does stop me sleeping is strong coffee, If I have a cup during the day or after lunch, I feel wired and know that sleep will not come until the caffeine in out of my system, so its decaff for me.
silverlady x
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Can anyone explain melatonin , how it works and where you get it? Thank you
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ibuprofen depletes melatonin and interferes with sleep
I had no idea about this!!!!
I take it every day for chronic back/neck pain so maybe I need to think about stopping it for a while to see if that helps.....(paracetamol on it's own being the alternative).
xx
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Thanks Susan , funny how some countries sell things and others not. Maybe I need to factor in cherries as well as bananas!
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Here is some of the latest information about melatonin
http://www.naturalnews.com/melatonin.html
http://www.frontiernet.net/~batory/articles.html
Melatonin can be bought from BIOVEA UK.
I first tried melatonin way back in the nineties, when it was discussed on "This Morning" Richard and Judy were keen on it.
silverladyx
There are quite a few ladies on power-surge who take it.
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Here is some of the latest information about melatonin
http://www.naturalnews.com/melatonin.html
http://www.frontiernet.net/~batory/articles.html
Melatonin can be bought from BIOVEA UK.
I first tried melatonin way back in the nineties, when it was discussed on "This Morning" Richard and Judy were keen on it.
silverladyx
There are quite a few ladies on power-surge who take it.
Wow, sounds good - but sadly it is not showing on the BIOVEA website?
Is there anywhere else selling it?
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just found it on special price: Agestop.net
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They are part of BIOVEA. :)
silverlady x
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I am sure some supplements are beneficial - but do we really need to do all of this? There are lots of companies making money out of all sorts of hormones and compounds to try to balance our complex internal workings...
However - look at melatonin for example - I for one would prefer to increase this naturally, which sounds perfectly feasible. Following silverlady's links I found this:
It is possible to supply melatonin through supplementation; however, it is also possible to create additional quantities of melatonin without drugs or supplements. The pineal gland produces melatonin, whose quantities are stimulated by the presence of darkness and inhibited in the light. Sleeping in a very dark room with no ambient light can stimulate melatonin production. Creating the conditions of twilight for several hours before going to bed will also set the stage for melatonin production and assist in falling asleep. Keep lights dim and remove all sources of light from the bedroom.
Why not try this first to increase melatonin naturally? (along with reducing caffeine and other stimulants, not too much alcohol or drinking during the evening - to mininise the bladder thing, taking more exercise - but not just before bed - all ways to improve your ability sleep naturally).
We are near the midsummer solstice - the longest hours of daylight. We are trying to fool our bodies into sleeping when they are not designed to so no wonder some have trouble. So how about getting up a lot earlier and for example trying to reduce total hours to 6-7 more in keeping with the daylight, and getting up a lot earlier - along with something to reduce the light in your room?
When you do go to bed having prepared your body and surroundings as above, then try Bette's 3-2-1 exercise (can't remember where it is) which I use (adpated for going to sleep) to focus the mind and stop all the other thoughts racing about - and it gets me off really quickly.
It's easy to look for a miracle cure or sleeping tablets ( I accept some do need to use these) but completely natural self-help can be really powerful
Hurdity x
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You make a lot of sense Hurdity. I am taking Zoplicone now and then and it makes me feel awful in the morning, very low in mood.
Can Bette point us to the relaxation exercises? I would like to try these.
Purplenannyx x
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Hi purplenanny
Here is Bette's thread:
http://www.menopausematters.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,8454.0.html
The exercise is described near the beginning and how I adapted it is near the end- thanks Bette for passing on this idea. Has worked for me - a bit of a worrier and had long periods when couldn't get to sleep due to mind racing and brain being overactive, or waking in the early hours.
Hurdity x
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Melatonin is also indicated for bone health
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1600-079X.2011.00956.x/abstract;jsessionid=0265DA7043CCF7424B70E3CE97ADCBE8.d04t02'systemMessage=Wiley+Online+Library+will+be+disrupted+on+9+June+from+10%3A00-12%3A00+BST+%2805%3A00-07%3A00+EDT%29+for+essential+maintenance&userIsAuthenticated=false&deniedAccessCustomisedMessage=
The Miracle of Melatonin by Walter Pierpaoli M.D PhD (perhaps Emma can give an amazon link) he devoted his whole life to the study of Melatonin. This book is a very good read and easily understood.
silverlady x
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I slept last night - for hours and hours and hours .......... after a Very Busy 5 days! When I thought I was going to wake up I went back into a lazy dream and this time it worked. 8)
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I've just bumped the thread again - thanks for reminding me. I must admit that I haven't tried your night-time adaptation, Hurdity but I will now! :thankyou:
I do have a trick, though. I lie there repeating in my head "Not thinking, just sleeping" and if I'm determined enough, I can usually get it to block out the unwanted thoughts that are keeping me awake and I drop off. It was a struggle last night, with worrying about Mum though, so I'll try the 321 adaptation next time.
Bette x
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I've recently purchased black out blinds (well actually they are just a very dark colour so work just the same) I've found them great for when you wake early as its easier to get back to sleep when the room isn't bright. Doesn't help much with getting to sleep though.
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I cant sleep either!! most nights wake up every hour >:(
Wish someone could just put me out for 24hrs to catch up!
I used to be able to nap in the afternoon but thats impossible as well now :'(
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I've just bought 2 cartons of cherry juice from the supermarket and have avoided ibuprofen all day!
I shall see if that makes any difference tonight..... :)
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panda762 its the very dark tart cherry juice that has the most melatonin, the ones you buy from the supermarket are cherry juice drinks that are diluted sweet cherry juice from concentrate, I am not sure they work in the same way.
http://tartcherryjuice.org/
silverlady x
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I too had horrible sleep last night. Why is it I can fall asleep on the sofa but when I get up and get into bed I am awake. Anyway got to sleep but then woke up with restless leg again. I really hate it. My leg was in the bed, out of the bed plus I live in Spain so it was so hot. Woke up today did some cleaning and was drained, fell asleep after lunch, not like me and just felt so drained and irritable all afternoon.
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Stay awake - don't give in to the falling asleep on the sofa routine. As for restless legs - the best tip I had was from my dad's rheumatologist (don't know how we got talking about dad's legs but we did) he said that you have to lay on your back preferably on the floor and put your legs against the wall as high as you can. They have to be straight for it to work.
Have any of you sufferers tried this site? http://rlsuk.healthunlocked.com/
Taz x
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Some very interesting points on here. The montmorrency cherries someone referred to is are a 'special' breed, that contains lots of melatonin. The drink is called cherry active and is very expensive. Some people say it helps with sleep, gout, and fibromyalgia. Melatonin is a hormone that is produced naturally but it declines with age, which is why older folk sleep less. It regulates your sleep pattern/cycle. As a supplement, apparently you only need a very small dose and more than a 1mg tablet is a waste. They say its not a good idea to take long-term as they don't know the effects, but it is generally safe, I think if doesn't interfere with any of your other meds.
I had a much better night last night - managed to sleep from 11.15 until 5 am, then went back to sleep from 5.40 until about 7.30. Sometimes I have some really awful nights, getting only 3 or 4 hours, but it usually settles. All my symptoms are a lot worse when I've been under a lot of stress at work/home. The long weekend has helped. :D
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What pixi says is right, more is not best with melatonin thats why I like the drops or spray.
After fifty men and women produce less melatonin, and have more difficulty sleeping.
You can buy Cherry Active iin most independant health shops and is more expensive then the juice drink you get in supermarkets.
More and more research is being done on melatonin it is considerd safe, though it is suggested that it should be avoided by people who are suffereing from certain types of depression also some auto immune conditions.
It is also good for the skin and hair ( not to ne confused with melanin) and is an antioxident. I have been taking it on and off for years with no ill effects.
Surgeons do sugest it is not taken before an op, as are other vitamins or herbs.
Like vitamin D, melatonin is considered a type of hormone.
silverlady x
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It's called Cherrygood and has 25% tart cherry and 5% montmorency cherry. It was only £1.50 for a litre in tescos and is a nice drink, so if it doesn't help at least I haven't bankrupted myself :)
x
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Me too... Disrupted sleep for a good few years now, Im in a routine though. I wake up most nights between 2am and 4am, I get up make a cuppa and go back to bed, drink the tea, lay down and go to sleep again, sounds wierd I know but it gets me back off again, but almost always need a nap in the day feel so old... :-\ Think I will try the cherry thingy, see if it helps..
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Maybe i'll try the cherry good. I really did not like the cherry active taste, and would rather stick to the melatonin supplement because a drink late at night sets off the old bladder ;D
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I would prefer a cherry tart with cream please ;)
When my restless legs were bad I would sleep with them up the top of the headboard which gave me pins and needles. For 2 years I had 3 thick blankets under the mattress on my side, but my legs would roll over onto the Husband who would then wake. Nurofen helps when all else fails.
Caffeine doesn't affect me. How about Horlics then Susan :beaurk: or a hot chocolate drink, or juice? the problem with not drinking regularly is that the kidneys go into over-drive and more urine is made, it can irritate the bladder so that we get up more in the night ;)
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Goodnight everyone, I hope we all have a better night. 8)
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Nighty night - sleep embrace us all for at least 7 hrs please
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Not a great night last night. It seemed very hot compared to the night before, sheet on only, then very cold!! Awake every couple of hours. I had been out last night and had a plate full of greasy vegetables and noodles, maybe that was the culprit. Back to the healthy regime tonight - bananas and cherries etc. :(
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Ugh, I've just had a dreadful night. Went to bed at 11.15, just drifting off at 11.50 when the dog starting barking and howling like the hound of the baskervilles, goodness knows why. This woke me right up again. Then started to drift off again but suddenly got this really disturbing image pop into my head, I think all the horrible bits of all the crime thrillers I read had jumbled together and jumped into my head in a very unpleasant way. I couldn't get the image out of my head every time I tried to sleep. At 2.30 I came downstairs and made a cup of hot milk. Back to bed at 3 and I think I finally went to sleep at around 3.30/3.45 until 7.30. I don't know what was wrong with me, I was hot and my skin itched. I wonder if it is anxiety about losing my job that is disturbing me. I wouldn't have said I was particularly anxious at the moment but maybe subconsciously I am. Anyway I feel like a zombie now.
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I kept dreaming about work, because everyone was going on about a problem yesterday afternoon! Was it a full moon? It was only 1 degree warmer than the night before. :(
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I think the cherry drink may have helped as I managed to stay asleep for over an hour at a time on a few occasions, although I'm not sure avoiding ibuprofen was a great idea as I woke several times with joint pain and am now as stiff as a board. I did take ages to settle (can relate to dreaming about work) Ho humm....xx
ziggy: I can't watch any horror movies / thrillers due to the bad dreams I'd have. Hope you feel better soon x
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I slept ok 1-9 woke up once but just got back to sleep quickly thank goodness.
Susan, why don't u just try taking a quarter off your tablet, if that's poss. See how you manage over a week.
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Susan i too have to take Zopi, i cut a 7.5mg tab in half and it stops night sweats flushes etc for up to 4hrs sometimes 5hrs, i have just had 2nights without tab and barely got 2hrs broken sleep due to body heat, sometimes it can take 15mins to cool off then 15mins to fall back to sleep then 10mins later, on comes the next lot of body heat so i am awake again..i feel so worn out...
My Gp last week had a chat with me about zopi, said maybe i could try 10mg Amitriptyline, to calm me down so i can drop off to sleep, but its not calming down i need to enable sleep, its the sweats i need to stop, had them now for 13yrs, been on Femseven 50 Hrt patches for 3yrs, and at 62, do not want to take any higher dose of Hrt, so like you i do not want to replace zopi with something else, i have tried cutting the tab into 4 which is difficult to do, and took just 1 bit of it, but that did not work so i know i need the 3.75mg to get 4hrs straight sleep, also my eye bags look worse after 2nts without sleep..tried 2 banana each day, but not working, tried hot drink, even tried small brandy, but still the hot sweats wake me..Can you please post if lowering your zopi works for you..xx
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Hi Susan,
Good idea to try and cut pills in half, probably easier to do when in a positive frame of mind and off work. Like someone said, it gets better eventually. X ;)
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I slept not too bad last night but I had felt so drained yesterday. It was so humid in bed last night just had sheet and didn't really want that. No restless leg to keep me awake. Cos I felt so shattered and exhausted I fell asleep as soon as head hit pillow. Had lots of weird dreams but seem to have these a lot.
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Dreams. Over and over .............. >:(
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Does anyone else feel that they catnap at night? last night went to bed at 12.15 seemed to be lying there until 3pm, then finally went to sleep until 7.30. Not sure if I was lying there awake until 3pm or just napping. Kept waking up hot then very cold, then hot again. I hope its not like this again tonight. :-X
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Pixie
You have described my sleep pattern for the last few months. Oh I long for a night of deep unbroken sleep.
Anne B
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Its strange because if this had happened a few years ago, I would have slept well the following night, but these days it goes on a lot of the time. If I did not work full time, I would probably go to bed for a sleep in the afternoon!! :-X
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Get a pill thingy from the Vet surgery ;)
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You can get pill-cutters at chemists - got one for Mum. ;)
Bette x
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Does the chemist sell tablet cutters? or have you tried that already?
Funny thing I don't know if this is coincidence or not but last few days had aches so have been taking paracetemal at night time and on those nights when I've taken it I have slept better.
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Susan I don't think that amount of zopi will harm cat and it probably wouldn't be interested in eating it anyway. Pill cutters defo available at chemists. You did well getting 6 hrs sleep on half a tablet. I was awake till 3 but slept till 9.
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I slept but had dreams ::)
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Just a thought - paracetamol is used to lower your temperature, so it may well be helping with hot flushes (and hence, helping to sleep better). It also (obviously) helps with pain relief, which is something else that can keep you awake :)
x
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At least the cat is getting some sleep! :D It is such a small dose, the cat should be ok. Is everyone suffering with hot flushes more than usual at the moment? I've been really hot in the day today, and yet everyone is saying how cold it is!!
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Pixie
Ditto.
Daughter has heating on and I'm sitting by an open window.
What will we be like if summer returns?
Melted blobs I suspect.
I must be one of the few looking forward to winter.
Anne B
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What mg of Paracetamol do you take Mrs P? if it does lower temp that might help my flushes as suggested by Panda, i have O.A and get knee & hip pain so even after hot sweat as past, the OA pain sometimes keeps me awake, would like to try these for a few nights..will try anything to be honest :-\
Susan my zopi are oval one's with a line through them, and i just break them in half by hand..but..the round one's are a nightmare to break, i always ask the Pharmacy for oval one's, last time they ordered them for me :)
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Goodnight , I hope you all have a better nights sleep! 8)
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Hi Rosebush, I take 1 500mg caplet
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I took 30mg of codeine phos and 2 paracetamols for a banging headache yesterday, I still did not go to sleep until 2am. Was then awake a couple of times before finally dragging myself out of bed at 7.30am. I've been to work all day. At least the headache has gone and not too exhausted surprisingly! I wonder if hot flushes produce bursts of adrenaline that keep us going? :-\
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Slept for almost 8 hrs last night, but have felt jittery and rubbish all bloomin day.
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I use something that might help those who are having trouble sleeping. It's called “Sleep Minerals IIâ€. I don't normally advocate “natural†products for sleeplessness, because I've never found anything that would help me, unless it was a prescribed drug, but these capsules are just basically calcium and magnesium with a few other things thrown in, but there is something about the way they are formulated that really seems to make them work. I was really sceptical when got mine, but after using them for a while I really think they do help.
I've had a big improvement with my insomnia since I got my progesterone intolerance under control, so I'm not sure if they would help if your insomnia is the full-blown hormonal type that only drugs help, but if I wake during the night or have trouble getting to sleep, I take one of these capsules and I fall asleep straight away, without fail.
They're not expensive, and they might help some of you. They do say that the longer you use them the better they work, so if you don't find they help straight away don't give up. At least try them for a couple of weeks before you make up your mind.
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Thanks Robyn
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I'd like to get some of those Sleep Minerals II too. Since having to come off HRT (due to worsening of migraines) I haven't had one night of proper sleep.
As soon as my head hits the pillow, a sweat will start - then they happen roughly every 2 hours, sometimes I can be awake simmering like a boil in the bag, for anything up to 3 hours. It really is hideous.
Listening to LBC 97.3 radio keeps me sane - I love Steve Allen.
Night_Owl
x
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Hi Night_Owl
I listen to LBC and also love Steve Allen. Do you know why he is no longer broadcasting on a Sunday morning - I used to really enjoy that - especially the gadget man, Darren?
Purplenanny x x
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Hi Purplenanny - no idea why he's not on air on Sunday - he did cut down his hours as his show is now shorter, maybe that was part of the arrangement - I used to enjoy gadget man too. I also like Clive Bull - he's back - only on early Sunday evenings though.
While I'm lying there in the insomniac depths of despair, Steve A can still make me chuckle.
Night_Owl
x
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Yes, Steve A can be very cheeky at times and certainly does help to brighten those early hours.
Hope you have a better night tonight Night_Owl. (http://yoursmiles.org/tsmile/sleep/t2246.gif) (http://yoursmiles.org/t-sleep.php?page=2)
Purplenanny x x
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Thanks PM - you too, hope you get some decent Zzzzzzzs.
Seem to get some deep sleep from c.6am - 8.30am - although that's only as I'm not working just now, god only knows how I'll be when I have to get up at 6.30 or 7. Mind you, I do have some very nutty weird dreams during that time of sleep, dreamt today that I had a HUGE (human size) baby that I couldn't care for as I had to go to work - more of a nightmare, ugh!
Night_Owl
x
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My dreams go on and on and ............. weird and wonderful usually ::) but leave me exhausted by morning. Could drop off here but once I get into bed >:(
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Yes, me too!
I usually wake around 5am and when I eventually nod off, that's when I dream - and they are really weird, busy and vivid
we should start a dreams thread - or has there been one previously?
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Think I recall seeing a Dreams thread at some time - dreams often get mentioned.
Have always dreamed but nothing like the dreams/nightmares and weird stuff I've had since meno. So vivid and takes a while to shake it off when waking.
Wonder what creates it - hormone fluctuations, sugar levels - who knows. Used to think it was down to HRT and possible liver overload. They were much worse / more intense when on HRT.
Night_Owl
x
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I'm quite prone to bad dreams anyway but oddly my husband has never remembered ever having a dream. He must have had them but he just never remembers! If I have a bad nights sleep, I usually have particularly bad dreams then. I think some of the medication I take doesn't help. My brother has cancer and is taking quite a high dose of morphine and he has terrible nightmares which the doctors have told him is down to the medication so I assume other medication can cause nightmares/dreams too.
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I dream every night and they are always muddled up and confusing sometimes I think they actually wake me up.
Last night the usual restless leg woke me up and then I tossed and turned, was too hot and then felt generally irritated. So hot here at night in Spain, can't sleep then I am so irritable during the day
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Hi girls,
I don't dream much, but having a run of bad nights at present. Last night I must've woken up 5 times, and had 2 toilet trips! Must cut back on the horlicks tonight. Anyway not been too tired today and clocked about 7 hours of interrupted hot and cold sleep! ;)
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I've been researching this for my eldest son who is having trouble sleeping properly. He suffers from sleepwalking and sleep eating during periods of high stress and he finds it most embarrassing. He has to barricade himself into his room to stop himself waking up with a bed full of the contents of the fridge. During my internet rambles I came across this site http://www.insomniacs.co.uk/ Apologies if it has been posted before but I don't want to wade through the whole thread!
Taz x
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Hi Taz,
This research on insomnia is really interesting. I think its very easy to get so hung about not sleeping for for 8 hours, just because it is supposed to be 'normal'. I've had problems getting off to sleep all my life, however, it has got worse lately and with the peri. Although I sometimes wake up all night and sometimes only have 4 hours, I still function ok in the day. Naturally we need less sleep as we age.PX :)
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I slept well this morning. From 10.40 until 12.15. Without a break.
I woke thinking "I couldn't do this if I had puppies". So my questions to you who have difficulties:
Light levels
Bed time routine
Correct weight of bed linens
Cats on the bed or around the house
Dogs that need to go out in the morning, early
Children or visitors in the house at night
R there a lot of vehicles by the property in the night, early hours
Noise from local hostelries or eateries
Do you live in a stag/hen party area with lots of background noise
Do you live near a school
Do you live near essential services that are active 24/7
Is your property noisy as it shuts down enough to disturb sleep levels
When did you buy a new mattress
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Hi Lynne888,
I had zero problems sleeping all my life until I reached perimenopause.
I now take HRT and melatonin and have a great sleep most nights.
cheers
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I keep seeing melatonin mentioned for sleeping, but wouldn't know where to start to get some. Are there weaker ones to start off on or do they tend to be one strength, sorry for all the questions, but my sleep has gone to pot badly x
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I put 'melanin' into google several years ago - maybe look on the NHS Sites?
Because I had slept well yesterday I didn't get off until 4.45 this morning ::)
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Hi Countrygirl,
I'm from Australia and over here, you can buy it over the counter - heaps of health shops sell it - but you don't really know what you're getting.
I started with 0.5mg and slowly built up from there to the right dose for me. Everyone is different.
There's a medically approved version called 'Circadin' which is slow release, but it only comes in 2mg and is very expensive, especially if you need more.
I take 4 mg every night, prescribed by my doctor and I have it made up by a compounding chemist. It's slow release. I take it half an hour before bed and by the time I'm ready to sleep it starts working.
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https://fast-asleep.com
Came across the book at supermarket beginning of the week. I have been following the fast 5:2 for over a year, although been lax recently seems to be vicious circle, can't sleep, eat rubbish and so it goes!! I found it useful reading the science behind sleep, research etc. Hopefully it will turn things around for me and anyone else in same position (lack of quality sleep). x
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Countrygirl melatonin isn't available in the UK but you can get it mail order from USA. I didn't try it as hrt sorted out my insomnia but Ladybt uses it and can suggest where to get it from if Google doesn't work.
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So glad I found this thread. I've had problems sleeping for about 2 and half years. Had to come off HRT due to breast cancer diagnosis. ( all good now) I go to bed tired but the minute I lie down I'm wide awake, hence I'm writing this at 04:20. GP prescribed Zopiclone about 2 years ago but I don't take it regularly as it leaves me feeling out of it during the day. Also take certraline following breakdown of marriage. Funny thing is that when I do fall asleep it's often for about 10 hours, which I know isn't good either. Lately I have been feeling very fatigued during the day as opposed to tired and really need to lie down. As a shift worker it is very hard to get a sleep routine. Sometimes feel at my wits end. I eat reasonably healthy, moderate exercise, just not sure what to do next.
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Perhaps try melatonin? It's difficult when you work shifts as you can't get into a routine.