Menopause Matters Forum
General Discussion => This 'n' That => Topic started by: Margarett on October 29, 2011, 04:49:00 PM
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Very sad to hear of Jimmy Savile'sdeath. He worked so hard for charities.
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Yes, very sad, he certainly was quite a character! R.I.P. Jimmy
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RIP Jimmy
(http://bestsmileys.com/candle/1.gif)
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I'm just telling it like it is and apologise in advance to Jimmy's many fans but I know that back in the 70s he was asked to open a benevolent day for an emergency service and was offered a fat fee for doing it. He came back with a figure the welfare fund couldn't match so had to ask someone else. I know he raised millions for charity but he also did very well out of it himself.
Jenny X
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I'm with Jenny50. I have nothing against the guy but I think there will be some revelations after his death. That's all I'm saying. Remember you read it here first!
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Use to love watching Jim'll Fix It :(
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I used to love Jim'll fix it too, but to be honest, from the tone of some of these comments, I wish I hadn't started this thread!
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I read his autobiography years ago, and his philosophy was that if he could get lots of money for charity just by turning up to an event, then that's what he would do.There must be thousands of grateful people who have been successfully treated at the Stoke Mandeville Spinal Injuries Centre , which he raised 20 million pounds for.
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I think it's sad that he seems to have died alone - it's sad that any 84 year old dies alone. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2055045/Jimmy-Savile-dead-DJ-Jimll-Fix-It-presenter-dies-home-aged-84.html?ito=feeds-newsxml
Taz x
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Sad that he died alone.....but that's the best way to go.....just peacefully sleep away.
If I got to choose then that's the way I would want to go.
He did such a lot of good works.
R.I.P Jimmy
Honeyb
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Many 'stars' have huge fixed rates for opening fetes etc. so don't feel badly about Jim. It's the way of the World!
He was full of charm, excentricity etc., a man of his time.
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I quite agree, CLKD. And it was sad that he died alone,but that was the way he lived his life.
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He was wacky, that much is true. But did so much charity work. So sad he was on his own though, but dying peacefully in his sleep he would not have suffered.
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Wouldnt we all want to go that way
Im sure as was said nasty yuky things will be written some true some false
Some with a pinch thats the only thinkg about this instant media
Its odd to think he was 85 tomorrow so that would make his biffy 1926
So in 1975 Jimllfixit he was 43?
Top o the pop he was in his mid 30s
Wonder if he was in the war? He would have been 18 in 1944?
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Jeremy Vine was interviewing people today that had been on Jim'll Fix It, they all had very fond memories of him. And it was reported that he'd raised £40million for charity through his marathons - RIP, Sir Jimmy.
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Was looking back through old posts regarding my Mum/problem builders and found this thread on Jimmy Saville just after he died in 2011.
I just KNEW bad stuff would come out after his death, although many still saw him as Saint Jimmy. ;)
Even I am impressed with my own words "remember, you read it here first!"
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Truth will out so it's said :-\ ........... fortunately the media have moved on. Let those who were affected talk to those who can help ...........
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WITCH ya musta known sumat
Bobbles was not all shocked he said doesnt surprise me in the least he was a sleaze
Seems hed met him once after his parents died at sone Masonic event he said he just didnt like him
I worry though about all the others that have been tainted by this
Oddly enough I watched the TV show News night it was on here I felt dreadful for the kids in the home they did it as child whores for the homes they expected to do it too so bloody awful
But Id no sympathy for the girls who hung around the show went back did the buis and came backl week after week
Dont tell me those kids at 15 in the 60s and 70s didnt know what they were doing cos thats rubbish
They did stuff to get on TOP meet pop stars they didnt care then iIs only NOW OH IM A VICTIM sod them
Those kids in the childrens home had no choice they are the real victims same as the ones in hospital
Sex groupies no sympathy for them Now any girl who had sex with a DJ etc in the 70s are coming out the woodwaork
1 am in the morning in the 70s a young sexy girl throws herself at you you dont ask for birth cert
I think we meaning the Police and Law have to becareful not to go totaly over the top
We all knew girls of 16 who hung around with DJS in Liverpool and Cheshire Clubs in 60s&early 70s they had a ball They all over NRTH west youd hear them talking in the ladies it wasnt a crime NOw they were VICTIMS rubbish
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Well said Suzi! They were known as 'groupies' ::) and I think many didn't realise that they were 'victims'. Some went back ++ because maybe that was the only attention they received, it gave them something to brag about and they felt cared for .......... it's those in any situation who mention that they think they have been touched inappropriately but the adults around them don't take action to stop it happening.
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What do you mean they "were" known as groupies? They still are!
Taz x
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:rofl:
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Suzi - I am indeed a witch!! ;D ;D
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Stuart Hall has been arrested ::) - will it ever stop!
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Stuart Hall has been arrested ::) - will it ever stop!
Men in sheepskin coats are always dodgy! ;)
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If he asaulted and 8 year old in the 70s why wasnt he charged
Why didnt the mother report it to the Police
If he told he not to tell anyone why now?
PLus unless he was a family friend the fear would have worn off
Im not saying he did it but unless theres a mass pedo ring sumat not quite right
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After all these years :-\ ............ he's since been charged :'(
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Max Clifford the latest one.
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Yep - oh we have C.mas hats already ::)
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There are a lot of sick men out there it would seem.
Always though Max Clifford was sleazy.
I hope if they are guilty someone throws away the key...either that or put them in a room of mothers with a very sharp knife.
Dont even think Max can put a positive spin on this one.
Why is it the more money they have they think they can get away with anything.....It makes me sick.
Honeyb
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I don't like any of them. I couldn't stand 'Its a knock out'. :sick02:
Sooty and Sweep will be arrested next!!
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;D .... however, many of these stories could have 'come out' at the time, perhaps on the back of JS women are trying to 'cash in' and of course, the Barristers will not turn down a Case .......... :-X
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Does make you wonder 'who's next' though... I reckon there's an awful lot of older male 'celebrities' out there from the 70's and 80's looking over their shoulder...
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I agree Pixieboots (great name!). Paedos rarely operate in isolation :(
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This is turning into a witchhunt, and I really wish I'd never started this thread last year.
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If it rescues from the trauma that has happened or prevent others from suffering, then yes it's a hunt and one that I feel needs to happen.
Margarett you could always ask for the thread to be removed if you want to.
You wasn't to know what would happen when you started the thread.
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This is turning into a witchhunt, and I really wish I'd never started this thread last year.
Margarett - Don't feel bad - you started the thread to say RIP to Jimmy Saville and what good work he'd done. You (along with thousands of others) believed he was a good guy then. All anybody can do is say what they feel at a particular time. If something comes out later on then it's not your fault.
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Also - he did 'good works' for Charity ....... many people have many personas and sometimes people aren't what they seem to be. Sad though it is :'( ..........
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No Margaret you did a good thread xxxxxxxxxxxx
Im worried too about with hunting generals though as I said before every DJ in the 60s and 70s who had sex
He will be looking over his shoulder terrified what it? Many wouldnt even remember club date girl most were groupies
Theyd hand around kisss me kiss me NEXT we will have big groups girls will come out and say I was aprop by ????
Forgetting that they had a ballw went on the van wenmt to many a gig with them and bailed after a time
Now maybe middle aged and over in the case of the 60s Groups maybe divorced sad OHHHH help please
It diminishes the children and young adults being asaulted now sexually and physically
Anyone 16 and over unless they can prove themselves it should be put to one side FOR NOW not forever
Get all the Old paedos done and dustedf then there will be time to relook at the groups cos tell you it will happen
Sooner rather than laster some girl or girls are going to acuse a BIG GROUP and there were plenty in the 60s!
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Yep by chasing people who were followed by groupies certainly demeans those who were seriously abused :-\
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Rolf now :'( - supposedly un-connected ............
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I know!!! Now that was a surprise for me.
We were talking yesterday about how our childhood was a sham. All these people with hidden secrets.
I don't know any more than RH was named in the category 3. No idea of any details.
Fx
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He painted the queen.
Bet that will be taken down and put in a cupboard.
I am so shocked at that one.Freddy Star yes he always gave me the creeps but Rolf.....surely not.
Honeyb
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Witchhunt? If I 'told' on all the men during my working Life who had leant over my shoulder too closely, or put their hand onto my shoulder to emphasise a point >:( ::) ........... I have made a mental list of who might be next :-\
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I don't consider putting a hand on someone's shoulder a sex offence.
Taz
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It depends how close they get......
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I still don't see it as a sexual offence - sorry - but I suppose my days in the office were when naughty comments were always being made and you knew who to avoid when going into the filing room if you didn't want to get fumbled and you also got whistled at when walking past a building site ;D I must admit that I always gave as good as I got. Looking back now I think a lot of the middle aged men who were a bit "hands on" were probably married to menopausal women who were going through their own private hells. Not an excuse for sexual predation I hasten to add!!
Taz x
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It's fine as long as it's just the hand, and it stays on the shoulder, and doesn't slip.....
And as long, as it's just the hand, and not other bodily bits that make contact.
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Things have changed so much and in some ways not for the better.
I don't know what happened with these girls in the past and of course if it was inappropriate then it was very wrong.
I worked in factory canteens during my late teens and early twenties. I then went on to sell new houses on building sites and was the only woman for what seemed like miles. I was fair game for every inappropriate comment know to man. You either gave up or gave as good as you got.
It's so sad that perhaps innocent stuff.....not Jimmy Saville.....is being brought up.
I really don't know what to think any more.
Honeyb
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People should have listened years ago when these rumours about Savile started. Nobody did and he got away with it.
Interesting that most of these people have received "gongs" from the Queen.
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Interesting that the Police keep saying that the more recent interviews and arrests are 'nothing to do with the Saville case' :-\ .... and Taz., such hands on shoulders issues are sexual harrassment in the workplace - though that phrase hadn't been invented in 'my day'. ::)
It'll all come out in the wash but the tsunami it leaves behind :-\ .........
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Blimey - I could be in big trouble then if a hand on the shoulder is seen as sexual harassment - will have to behave myself!!
Taz :)
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;D - always wise to ask first ......... ;) and one kind of knows what is simply touchy feeley and what is harrassment ........ at least now we can shout from the rooftops about it! but after 30+ years, I wish these women who think they have been abused by people in the public eye would keep quiet ......... what *do* they hope to gain?
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Money Fame Recognition a sence of importance most would now be 40 and over
To me this shite diminishes the REAL crimes
I dont care if a man puts his arm on my shoulder
Are we so scared are we so PC that we cant show affection anymore with out it being construed as sexual?
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I agree Suzi! Why have so many waited for so long to come forward?
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Fame a sense of look at me self importance wanting to be recognised validated (hate that word)
If they had gone to police in the begining if they had complained but they didnt
Loads of these girls who were quite willing to be fondled To get tickets to go to TOP every week be the FACE of TOP They went with JS willingly to meet said stars lets face it most of us knew girls like that
Dont tell me they were the victimes if anythng were the seducers using their teen bodies to get what theywanted
Dont tell me they didnt know at 15/16/17 what they were doing We in the 1960s and 70s knew as much as kids today
There was almost as much drink drugs and sex though not anythng like the same violence as today
They are now mid to late 40s wonder what their lives are like today how their lives have progressed
If I was one of them I was well married children maybe even grandones Id be keeping quiet
Id not be showing myself off to the world UNLESS it had been rape Id been too scared
But go watch the interviews Loads of these women out of their own mouths
They were willing to put up with ondling from dirty old men every week to meet popstars maybe go out with them They arent victims they were users
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Well Said!
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William Roach has been charged ......... 40 years after the event :'( ...........
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Suzi you've hit the nail on the head!
As for William Roach and the others, how on earth are they going to be able to prove/disprove these women were raped etc. Unlike JS where so many have come forward and it was well known for many years, but brushed under the carpet.
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Ladies it was supposed to have been in 1966 Bill so that makes it 47 years ago
How the hell is he supposed to prove he didnt do anythng and again its not a JS inquiry
We have Police in Ozz from London interviewing a 59 year old women about Rolf Harriss I can write it now
Because everyone knows I knew before Xmas cos my dinlaw is a reporter and son does ioverseas desk news journo They knew some women is supposed to have been %% in early 50s by RH it was before he came to UK
He wasnt a star in the early 1950s in Ozz why wasnt he arreasted charged he didnt come from a rich family
He had no pull NOPE sumatt up all these women some grandmas coming out saying BLA BLA
Do I believe them NO I dont Im not saying some didnt have sex but having sex and rape or pedo is a big diff
Why didnt they come out till Jimmy Saville if its been playing on their mnds didnt stop them marrying having children
Living a good decent life none seem by the media to be anythng but everyday early or middle aged women
Its Corrie next it will be eastenders late 30s early 40s coming out saying so and so mark my words
Hey if they are guilty make them pay but how can you prove it either way unless the ladies have witnesses
Getting to be a bit like the Muslim law you have to have 4 male witnesses to prove you were raped
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Getting to be a bit like the Muslim law you have to have 4 male witnesses to prove you were raped
If there were 4 male witnesses, that sounds just like a gang bang. Seems unlikely that they would rat on their chums.
This whole thing with women crawling out of the woodwork to say they were abused just seems wrong.
They appear to have lived happily and got on with their lives, why wait till now to complain.
And, as others have said, how can it be proved?
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Even if they have been unhappy about what happened all those years ago, why now? Why are the Police pursuing old crimes :-\ hopefully the Crown Prosecution Service will throw out most of these claims.
I am in the middle of reading a book about a Mid-wife, she worked alongside Harold Shipman and really could not believe the tales when he was first arrested. Or course, as reality dawned she was grief stricken initially ............ then horrified at the outcome :'(
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We have no idea whether the woman who appears to have been raped by William Roach has lived a happy life though. She was 15 at the time and he was a famous 35 year old. We have all seen how some victims have a tough time getting believed. If you are a gullible 15 year old it is quite conceivable that you would be too scared to report it - who knows what threats may have been made for her to keep quiet.
This woman is now 61/62. None of us knows why she has come forward now. Maybe her own parents have now died for instance so she feels that finally she can speak out without putting them through trauma. Maybe the fact that others have come forward has given her courage to stand up and talk about the dreadful that happened to her (twice) and to see the man who might have done this brought to justice. She could be any one of our friends - an ordinary woman who was wronged - and just because it was over forty years ago doesn't mean it should be forgotten about.
Taz x
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It would be better after all these years to have a mediation service - for those affected to sit round the table and thrash out the whys and wherefores. Sometimes the victim wants to be believed and needs an apology ......... apparently the man who did the Game Show years ago has pleaded guilty oh, Stuart Hall :-\
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Not sure I would feel like that if I were the victim. It's like someone sitting with you, patting you on the hand and saying "there there" while he gets away with no punishment. I am sure that if you are raped at fifteen then it stays sharp in your mind no matter how many years go past.
Taz x
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However historic it will be invesigated by the police
As Taz said, once parents have passed. victims feel able to speak out
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It really goes to show how much was swept under the carpet all those years ago. I wonder if a complaint was made and then ignored because he was famous.
I think because of JS the police are revisiting past complaints.
To be raped at 15 would have had an effect that lasts your whole life.
My issue now would be.....how on earth do you prove it with no evidence. Just his word against hers.
If she remains anonymous then I would be more inclined to believe that it happened. If she sells her story to a paper then..... :-\
Honeyb
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This lot makes me cringe.
However, being sexually abused by someone we called 'uncle' when I was 12 and not being able to tell my parents (I thought they would not believe me or even blame me), I can understand why many kept quiet. In my case I didn't even tell my sisters until my parents were no longer around, as I didn't want to cause upset to my parents.
I think I was the fool.
Meggie
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I dont know how anyone can prove or disprove what hapened nearly 50 years ago
Bill Roache Rolf Harris Kevin too then the DJs
Either UK TV has the biggest Pedo rings going or someones telling irkie pies
We actually saw the 59 year old women who claims she :saw something" with Rolf Harris
Why would you let yourself be filmed? She wont say what she saw and this is enough to bring an old man to his knees?
This type of stuff diminshes the real victimes like Meggie
IM sorry but all these peole now coming out of the woodwork where quite happy to fondle Saville and pals
All to get tickets to TOP and other shows to be popular they came back week after week
Do you name them and in efect ruin their lives forever cos it is even if they are never charged
Bet you never see Ken barlow again or Kevin Or Rolf harris it doesnt matter if they are incocent their jobs are over
If they are gulty and its proved then jail and dont pass go but I have my reservations xxxxxxxxxx
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Oh Meggie <hug>. Many would not have been believed at that time. There was the worry of 'what the neighbours might think' :-\ ...... Stuart Hall has admitted to 19 counts of indecent assault and will be charged in June. :sigh: .........
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Hi Meggie
I am sorry to hear that you had to go through that. I read all the comments and when it got to the questions about 'why come forward now' etc. I contemplated commenting but something held me back.
However, I understand exactly how Meggie feels. I was not raped but I was sexually assaulted by three different men - between age of around 8 to 12. 1 of them my Mum's uncle; one my Dad's friend and one the local park-keeper. I consider them minor compared to some people's experiences.
I never told anyone at all until a few years ago - 40 years after it happened. I only told my best friend at that time. I knew that it was wrong but believed I could not have told my parents at the time. I could consider that it may have influenced things that happened later in my life, but what would that accomplish?
Anyway, it was when I found out that my fiance was leading a full double life that I went to have a sexual health check. The doctor asked me a range of questions including sexual abuse and I just answered. He offered me counselling and said that many people are in my situation, that it is never minor, and that counselling would be available for me at any time, at any age.
So, I have told 2 people, plus who knows how many on here now. I think I did not want anyone to know and did not want to deal with what I anticipated what would happen if I did, then as I grew up I did not want to bring it back to the surface.
Does that make me/us a fool as Meggie suggested? I don't know. I don't think I was a fool. I would have hated the repercussions of telling.
I think we did what we did to protect ourselves in some way at the time. I had no threats to keep quiet so that was not a factor.
Now, if it came out now and people were asked to come forward (as in the current JS case et al) would I come forward. Possibly yes and possibly no. I don't know that I would want people to know that part of my life from so long ago that is private. But then again, despite what the doctor told me, I considered mine minor in relation to others. Perhaps that's what allowed me to deal with it.
I guess it is easy to form opinions of why people did not come forward at the time. I felt uncomfortable when I read the postings forming views of that which has prompted me to post an alternative view / reason.
I don't think they can all be lumped together. Every person is an individual and makes their own decisions. Some may not be genuine as has been suggested, but there will be many who did not feel they could come forward at the time but perhaps now feel stronger or safer to do so now within the 'protection' of the public enquiry.
Thanks for sharing Meggie - it did give me the courage to post also.
Fx
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:thankyou: ......... valuable words.
now it's Jimmy Tarbuck .......... :-\
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FW thanks for putting that into words. There really is another side to the whole "why are they all jumping on the bandwagon after all this time" point of view.
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Sorry to hear about Meggie and Firewalkers experiences. I can understand why people would keep it quiet. Sometimes it is embarrassment, or fear that someone won't believe you which makes the situation worse. I have had several unpleasant experiences, where men have copped onto me when I was a child. Once was when I was playing hide and seek with my cousin at the beach and a man asked me to go with him and was masturbating whilst looking through binoculars at topless women. I've never told anyone much about that as I hadn't a clue what he was doing, and it didn't seem to have any effect at the time. It just seemed rather odd. Another occasion I was nearly molested whilst I was in bed just about to go to sleep, I was woken up by the man that was staying with us, who was taking the covers off the bed and pulling my nightdress up.He didn't get any further than that as I gave him a filthy look and asked him what he was doing and he ran out. Before this, on another occasion, he had stripped off naked in the beach hut we had and I was shocked to see him in full frontal mode. I was very lucky that I felt I could tell mum and she believed me. Never saw him again thank god!
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Hi Meggie
I am sorry to hear that you had to go through that. I read all the comments and when it got to the questions about 'why come forward now' etc. I contemplated commenting but something held me back.
However, I understand exactly how Meggie feels. I was not raped but I was sexually assaulted by three different men - between age of around 8 to 12. 1 of them my Mum's uncle; one my Dad's friend and one the local park-keeper. I consider them minor compared to some people's experiences.
I never told anyone at all until a few years ago - 40 years after it happened. I only told my best friend at that time. I knew that it was wrong but believed I could not have told my parents at the time. I could consider that it may have influenced things that happened later in my life, but what would that accomplish?
Anyway, it was when I found out that my fiance was leading a full double life that I went to have a sexual health check. The doctor asked me a range of questions including sexual abuse and I just answered. He offered me counselling and said that many people are in my situation, that it is never minor, and that counselling would be available for me at any time, at any age.
So, I have told 2 people, plus who knows how many on here now. I think I did not want anyone to know and did not want to deal with what I anticipated what would happen if I did, then as I grew up I did not want to bring it back to the surface.
Does that make me/us a fool as Meggie suggested? I don't know. I don't think I was a fool. I would have hated the repercussions of telling.
I think we did what we did to protect ourselves in some way at the time. I had no threats to keep quiet so that was not a factor.
Now, if it came out now and people were asked to come forward (as in the current JS case et al) would I come forward. Possibly yes and possibly no. I don't know that I would want people to know that part of my life from so long ago that is private. But then again, despite what the doctor told me, I considered mine minor in relation to others. Perhaps that's what allowed me to deal with it.
I guess it is easy to form opinions of why people did not come forward at the time. I felt uncomfortable when I read the postings forming views of that which has prompted me to post an alternative view / reason.
I don't think they can all be lumped together. Every person is an individual and makes their own decisions. Some may not be genuine as has been suggested, but there will be many who did not feel they could come forward at the time but perhaps now feel stronger or safer to do so now within the 'protection' of the public enquiry.
Thanks for sharing Meggie - it did give me the courage to post also.
Fx
If they are dead or really really old as in 90 Id not say anything either
Id take the help and try to put the past behined you
I was a batterd chld mentally and physically in 2002 had enough MUM had died no resolution there
Its not the same but the repercussions are and how you feel about yourself last thing Id ever want is OH poor old oyu
Dont bloody pity me Im fine thanks very much huge hugs Fire respect your desire for privacy only 4 people Know about my childhood beside close family so about 12 people all in None pity me I am me and will allow no one to hurt me ever
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It is a very sensitive subject and I feel for anybody that has had to endure it. I don't think it matters how how old the abusing person is. By keeping quiet, it allows the person to feel they can merrily get away with it and also progress to abusing others as well. I think it must have taken a lot of soul searching and courage for those to disclose this, but also because some have done it, others have been able to do it because they thought they realised they might be believed. I think of the person who has had that has had to keep the burden of the abuse to themselves all those years and have to deal with it all alone. It must be a tremendous amount of relief for them to unburden this and see the person who has caused them torment get justice i.e. Stuart Hall. It must be a relief also to know that it wasn't their fault because other people have also had to the same abuse. Why should paedophiles like Jimmy Saville have got away with abusing all those people? Also for the public to think he was some kind of saint who deserved to be knighted. Its just awful that he didn't get punished during his lifetime for his crimes. I
t brings to the publics attention just what can happen to children and makes everyone more aware that this goes on and it should be out in the open and understood and believed by parents. Most people want to be in denial that it happens because they just don't want to believe that such evil exists. If a child came to me and told me about something happening to them, I would listen to them and do my best to help them. I would tell their parents, or safeguarding children team of my local NHS. I would also consider making an annoymous call to social services. I told my mother, about something that nearly happened to me with a male lodger and fortunately I was believed. It was nipped in the bid before any abuse progressed further. I remember it to this day, she got his case and threw it down the stairs and screamed at him to get lost! It can happen to anybody.
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Well said Pixie
I cant believe the attitude of some people. My OH keeps saying things like "oh, what did he do then? Did he just put his arm around her?" etc etc >:( If he keeps on in that vein he could be my EX OH.
Worse still, women at work saying "oh why are they coming forward now? It's just for publicity/compo." For goodness sake! Why dont women support each other?
I just keep quiet so in my own way I am failing to support too :(
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I think it is very important that no matter how long ago the abuse happens that the victim gets the chance of some sort of resolution if they can. My mother in law and her brother were sent away to the country as children during WW2 and were abused by the family looking after them and they were too terrified to tell anybody or their parents what had happened to them when they returned home. They kept this secret for many years and didn't tell anybody about it until a few years ago during a family get together and it came as a shock that she decided after 60 years to talk about it and tell us what happened to her as a young girl. Yes she went on to have a husband & family but it took lots of courage to tell us and she feels better now that it is out in the open.
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Following on from my previous post, I certainly don't want to be pitied by anyone for what happened to me.
The man who abused me was a family friend who will be known as “H†whose wife had passed away during childbirth, her baby died too. My parents befriended him and we became the family he didn't have. My Sisters and I spent a lot of time visiting "H" every day during our primary school years and were expected to help him with jobs at home. I was a very well developed 11 year old and was often forced into corners by him, when my sisters weren't with me. On one occasion my parents insisted I go to his house and help him move his bedroom around and collect his bedding which my Mum said she would wash for him. I was horrified at the thought of going upstairs with him. I was totally naive as to sexual connotations - it was in the early 60's and I didn't fully understand what could happen but, I just sensed it was wrong. My Mum found me 'hanging about' avoiding visiting him and she 'shepherded' me across to his house so I had no choice but to help him with cleaning his bedroom. I couldn't wait to get away so got the job done in double quick time, fighting being pinned down on the bed and his groping hands and finally being interrupted by one of my Sisters, shouting upstairs. After this incident I made a point of taking friends or my Sisters with me although it wasn't always possible, so I just had to get through the situation. Luckily penetrative sex never took place but on his part, it wasn't through lack of him trying !
This post has allowed me to get this off my chest. I had counselling when I divorced my former Husband of 26 years and the situation of abuse was discussed as was my childhood. My Counsellor made a very valid statement "If you were the family this man never had, what gave him the right to sexually abuse you?".
I was unable to tell my parents – they felt they were doing good helping “H†and although they always told us that we could speak to them about anything, I knew there would be questions and I felt ashamed and was scared. As time went on I just bottled it up and when they spoke about “H†I kept quiet. Time passed as it does and I felt unable to discuss the past as I did not want to see their hurt – they trusted this man and although he did wrong, I could not deal with the pain of their hurt in that they would feel that they had failed me. So I kept quiet! When my parents passed away I told my brother and sisters because, I wanted to know whether they had been subjected to the same – thankfully, they had not.
Phew - this lot has certainly stirred things up - I probably should have started another thread.
Meggie
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Hi Meggie, Its good to get it off our chests once in a while.
As far as all this TV stuff goes, I don't feel pity, but a certain amount of anger on behalf of the people who have been on the receiving end of low lifes like Saville and Hall and had to watch these smarmy, psychopathic self deluded celebrities parading themselves with knighthoods etc on the TV!!
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Hi Meggie
I don't pity you but I do have compassion for your experience and situation and I am glad that the counsellor put it into perspective.
I have never wanted pity either from anyone.
SuziQ - interesting that I can put the sexual situation behind me but cannot put the physical and emotional abuse I got from my parents behind me in the same way (I have referred to this in some posts a while ago). Perhaps because I believe it was their responsibility to love and cherish and nurture me; and so it was probably a much greater hurt and betrayal of their responsibilities.
I do not think we can compare the suffering of others to our own. We can only experience our own experiences and your abuse will have affected you just as significantly. :foryou:
I read a book recently called "I was a sex Slave". Started with sexual abuse in the home and went from bad to worse until she was captured and became a sex slave in Amsterdam Red Light District.
The statistics for that were shocking! There but for the grace of god goes anyone ................
Fx
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Hi Firewalker50
I hear what you say.
This type of experience is very individual.
My experience was not my fault and although it took me 40 years to come to terms with it, I believe that it made me a stronger person, eventually. This post is not about me.
I have heard about the book you have read and thought about reading it - I may do so.
We have but one life - it's what you make of it.
Meggie
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HI Meggie
If it is of any help - the book is not a self pitying book. And not written for gratuitious horror. Very factual I thought. I am referring to the one written by Sarah Forsyth. I think it got 4 or 5 stars in the reviews. Actually, it followed a book I read on slavery in America and she refers to that at some points.
I know what you mean about the post not being about you (or me for that matter). HOwever, just as others came out of the woodwork with the JS et al debacle, so too, has it opened doors for some people on here to share experiences that may not have been dealt with before.
Actually, in reality, the reaction has reflected some of the reaction by the victims of JS etc. The door is open - an opportunity to tell their story and share.
Anyway, this was just to let you know the book I was referring to since there are a few.
Fx
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Jim Davidson has been acquitted. Rolf Harris is to stand trial :'(.
This has brought to the fore a situation I initiated at the age of 13 :'( .......... dealt with and forgotten until 2 weeks ago. It is what it is ....... I didn't realise it was wrong of me. I felt excitement, felt I was being cared for by someone outside the family, felt safe with the guy ....... we met up again 3 years ago very briefly and I so wanted to say 'sorry' but unless he remembers .......... there's no point. :-[
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Not sure what you mean CLKD.
A 13yr old is a child no matter how grown up they feel. An adult has to control any situation and make sure it never happens again.
Not sure whether you want to discuss this more fully.
I am disappointed by Rolph Harris. I grew up watching him...He was a nice part of my childhood. Why do some men feel that this is an appropriate thing to do to a child.
Sad really......Yes sad is the word to describe how I feel.
Honeyb
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It's horrible :(
Nobody should say the child is at fault, the child is never at fault.
I feel worried for you CLKD. Are you ok? You can seek help still, it is never too late.
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I am fine. I can see from my experiences how these situations evolve. I hadn't thought about them for years until 4/5 years ago ........ like much of my guilt or when I have let someone 'down' in life it pops up unexpectedly long after the situations.
I feel SO sad for Rolfe and DLT .............. I also wonder who, from those years, are burying their heads :-\
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I'm not sure that "sad" is a term I would use CLKD when thinking of a grown man preying on underage girls and also the fact that he had indecent images of children. I wonder what happened to the children.
Taz
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I don't feel sorry for them. I feel disgusted that they would do such a thing.
I am sad that I spent at least part of my childhood thinking that these men were great when all along they were abusing children.
If they are proved to be guilty then I would lock them up and throw away the key.
Honeyb
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<sigh> yep Indecent images too ............ out of curiosity? Deliberately targeting children he was involved with and kept photos : or found some which were down-loaded ......... I wonder if the truth will ever be known :'( .............
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Not curiosity - men like this don't download or acquire images out of curiosity they do it to use for their own purposes. Children such as these are being abused and photographed and filmed all the time - it gives me the creeps to think of a man in his eighties watching such stuff.
I think we do know the truth CLKD - the evidence must have been there to charge him.
Taz
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Stripped of his knighthood I hope and the painting he did of the queen sent to the local tip.
Just beyond belief.
Honeyb
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I am always a skeptic If as charged he had nasty piccs of kids then thats what he soud be defo guilty of The rest thats not for us but for a jury to find out
We had a situation here a chap shall say W had been accused of asaulting his wifes child
I wont call him her step DAD cos her real Dads not dead W is just her mUMS second husband
I hate these blended PC names anyway he ,lost his job his second wife left him
He was reduced to living nin a caravan now we saw the teen with im loads on is bike
He became a strict DAD figure she hated ittold her mUM bla bla Police and his life almost ruined
It went to court the kid was 18 by then she was called in to court in the end made to go.
IT AS A LIE shed done it to get even had never meant it to get this far so he was exonirated
Didnt get his wife back nor his job he was such a nice man he tried to suicide it was OK
Hes now gone back to Italy so IM very cautious but RH hmmmm
The reat of them NO I dont think the DJ I actually used to go to cubs in the 70s when he was DJing as a star attraction and there were always gilrs hanging around and would go of with them at night NOW gthey didnt bring theior bcerts and at 15? they looked 18 why now
Married probably NANS IM sorry it demans the women and girls whow were actually abducted and raped
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I don't feel sad for them or sorry for them. I feel very sad for the children involved.
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I don't feel sad for them or sorry for them. I feel very sad for the children involved.
So do I Milliemoo. I have been listening to people on the radio today who were sexually abused by a BBC radio presenter (Mike Souter) who was as well thought of as Savile by the public, the Scout Movement and even social services. His trial has been going on here for 5 weeks and he will be sentenced any time.
Savile, Souter and most other paedos are in a position of authority or have a bit of power or fame and they got away with it, because even though kids made complaints against them, nobody believed it so it just carried on. I am shocked to the core at how the police had complaints against Savile many years ago but did nothing.
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I suppose I feel the same Pennyfarthing, although Savile was such a larger than life, in your face sort of character I can see why people felt intimidated by him and I think that was the core of the problem. The shiny outfit, the hair, the cigar - it was all so over the top and of course, he knew that well and played on it. Plus his fame - the police should put that to one side but I suppose we are all human and can be taken in. I just can't get over how the various hospitals gave him an office and his own room etc. - WHY???? :-\ Talk about get a licence to do what he wanted ???
I had a friend who worked at Radio 1 and she always said "if you knew the truth about him ... " but she would never say more than that so I was unsurprised when all the info came out.
However, it pleases me no end that he was very proud and pleased with himself - all that fame, all that money raised for charity, the big tombstone etc etc. and all he will be remembered for now (forever) is what a vile, nasty, creepy, manipulative man he was. THAT is his legacy and wouldn't he just hate it. Good.
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I don't think he would mind which way he was remembered just as long as he WAS. Like most predators he would no doubt think that it was his victims fault anyway.
Taz
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I had a friend who worked at Radio 1 and she always said "if you knew the truth about him ... " but she would never say more than that so I was unsurprised when all the info came out.
Think there were a lot like that. Such a shame that the stories/rumours were not acted upon. I know of someone who said similar about another of the men being taken to court. Told me not to be surprised when he was named. I just hope that today's celebs are not involved in any such things, though I expect people are much more confident in coming forward nowadays.
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Remember Bill Wyman and 13 year old Mandy Smith who he later married nobody did anything about that.
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That didn't last though. Both wanted the celebrity/media hype probably .........
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That's not the point CLKD.
Man + 13yr old child = illegal. Child abuse is child abuse no matter who you are.
Celebrity does not give anyone the right to do as they want no matter whether young girls are throwing themselves at them. It's just wrong.
Honeyb
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How did Bill Wyman get away with it - I have always wondered that!
Taz x
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because she would have had to press charges, I think she will have done quite well out of it but what were her parents thinking. She was a child no matter what anybody thought and HE was an adult, it was illegal
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I don't think that she would have had to press charges but her parents should have. The case of the schoolgirl who disappeared off with her teacher, Jeremy someone, last year was not brought about because the girl pressed charges but because her parents did. It's very puzzling.
Taz :-\
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Actually wonder if police could have arrested him anyway. Sounds like her parents were more interested in the celeb status/money.
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I wonder how much their silence has cost him.
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It was in the open. Child abuse wasn't the headline it is now.
Interesting article in the Sat. press about how much involvement the Police at the time had with JS :-\
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If they knew and heads turned away then those people should have to account for why this happened.
They won't as police protect their own.
Does not excuse them though.
Honeyb
X
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action should be taken against the officers who turned a blind eye, how can we trust a police force who condones this behaviour.
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Can we trust the UK Police Force ............ :-X
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They're not all bad pennies! Yes I agree a few are, but it's a small percentage overall.
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I know an ex Cop who, if he hadn't been on 'that' side might well have finished up on the 'other' ....... >:( - angry, violent towards his wife and 3 kids, kicked the dog but the smiliest bobby on the beat >:( ....... his Colleagues thought the World of him :-\
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My hubby was a cop! So too was my SIL. They do a tough job. Mine did a good job & yes it got to him, but he found a way to get it out of his system - hill walking. Never lost the plot with me, as that was & is not his temperament. It takes someone with "balls" to do their job but not all of them "turn." I feel that those who lash out at their nearest & dearest already have that streak in their temperament. Don't paint them all with the same brush, as that is not a true & fair assessment of the police.
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This guy had that streak already :-\ .......... one of the reasons he joined the Force, to 'get even' were his words <sigh> - there will always be bad apples in the pile ..........
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And that is all it is.....a very few bad apples. We all know people like that in every walk of life.
I don't envy the police one bit. I know a good few as friends, and dated one or two in the past. My best pals dad was the local sergeant so I grew up around them.
Decent men on the whole doing a very hard job.
We never hear about the good ones just the ones who have done something wrong. Good ones don't sell so many newspapers.
Honeyb
X
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My late uncle was a policeman and did something like 45 years service. This was in the days before early retirements etc. He went in as a very young man and was a bobby on the beat all his working life. He was a real village policeman.
I was at a community event and they had someone very high up in the police and he started talking to me. I mentioned my uncles length of service and he sort of rolled his eyes and said that couldn't be right because the maximum anybody could do was some figure which I've now forgotten. I said he'd been dead about 20 years and that he would have worked from around 1920 to approx. 1965. I could see he didn't believe me so I told him that if he checked the police archives he would get it confirmed. I always know within minutes whether I like someone but this guy was creepy and I didn't like him.
Just a few months later I read in our regional newspaper that he'd been dismissed for several counts of pinching police money, accepting bribes and some other stuff. I just knew he was a wrong 'un. ;D ;D
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Just spent an interesting 10 mins reading through this old thread about the vile Jimmy Savile after the full report came out today on the horrific catalogue of attacks he carried out.
It's not surprising that Savile fooled his colleagues, bosses, royalty, Politicians etc ...... He even fooled a few on here!
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Most of us probably. Sadly harassment in many forms was 'of it's time' in most industries. Watching Len Goodman with Eve Pollard 1 afternoon this week, she was an Editor: the 1st woman to hold the post: in the 1980s and was told when she rang to find out where the 'copy' for the night was, that she couldn't possibly be the 'Boss' :o - the man running the print line asked to speak to her Manager ……..
The truth will never come out. Interestingly, a Police man [now retired] who was involved in the initial Savile investigations was told that there were no written records in the BBC relating to those employees ………. suddenly records were found :-\. Why would any organisation keep records from that far back ……… ……… I wonder if the Report released today will be in the Public Domain? So much sadness, so many un-answered questions :'(
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Most of us probably. Sadly harassment in many forms was 'of it's time' in most industries. Watching Len Goodman with Eve Pollard 1 afternoon this week, she was an Editor: the 1st woman to hold the post: in the 1980s and was told when she rang to find out where the 'copy' for the night was, that she couldn't possibly be the 'Boss' :o - the man running the print line asked to speak to her Manager ……..
The truth will never come out. Interestingly, a Police man [now retired] who was involved in the initial Savile investigations was told that there were no written records in the BBC relating to those employees ………. suddenly records were found :-\. Why would any organisation keep records from that far back ……… ……… I wonder if the Report released today will be in the Public Domain? So much sadness, so many un-answered questions :'(
He didn't fool me!!
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There was always something creepy about him, made my skin crawl. Just glad my daughter never got picked for Jim'll Fix It!!!
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Attitudes are changing and have changed towards sexual harressment, assault and rape, thank goodness. It reminds me of when I was a special constable in the 70s. I witnessed a WPC being sexually harassed. What shocked me more is that she accepted it as her due if she wanted to remain in the police force.
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Also, many girls (and some boys) chased celebrities; not necessarily in the Beeb. It was 'the thing' because people had more money in order to go events, parents probably expected their children to be in a safe environment. How many of us would have run to our parents had we been tampered with? ……….. I suppose I had been warned about 'odd' people ::), as well as having no freedom in that when I was told to be home by a certain time, home I had to be. I lived in a very controlled house and my parents wouldn't allow me go to dances etc. ……… although my sister was allowed to discos at the age of 9 :sigh:
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I have to ask: where were the parents in these situations :-\. One player stated yesterday on TV that he 'thought that was what he had to do in order to get picked for football' ……….. a bit like young girls who want to be models/film stars/pop singers …………
When we have sports events parents/guardians have to be present. It's part of the Child Protection Policy for Archery. Each Club now has to a have Protection Officer and there are strict guidelines in place.
Listening to Cliff talking with Michael Ball brought me to tears earlier :sigh:
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Don't assume the parents didn't care. Children can be groomed, or those close to them threatened if they talk. Teenage years are difficult enough with hormones flying around. Parents have tread carefully even if there is no trauma in the background. The signs of abuse are rarely obvious and if the child is afraid or too ashamed or scared to talk, what hope has the parent got?
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I do not assume that the parents didn't care exactly but surely ………. I suppose it was thought that children would be 'safe' she in such situations. Some of these boys were as young as 8/9 ……. I think these kinds of revelations are going to keep cropping up for years.
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When we have sports events parents/guardians have to be present. It's part of the Child Protection Policy for Archery. Each Club now has to a have Protection Officer and there are strict guidelines in place
I didn't know that CLKD - Do you mean that no events can take place without each child (under 18 year old) being accompanied? Makes the DBS/CRB checks a bit meaningless?
Taz x
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Apparently these sickos groom the parents first. There was an expert from a charity on TV yesterday and she said they go out of their way to meet the parents, tell them what talented kids they have, how they can help and encourage them etc etc then when the parents are satisfied that joining these clubs and attending events will develop their potential, they strike. They are lulled into a false sense of security.
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Yep Taz2 - nice to see you on board. We are not a creche. If parents want their children to have archery as a sport then they have to show enthusiasm; it works too. Parents who get fed up with waiting around usually do the Beginners' Course …….. :whist:. Once the child is competent they are allowed to progress at their own speed so that Coaches can go back to shooting. Therefore the child is required to have a guardian present. There is a trained Protection Officer in the Club who is also a parent and all Members now the protocol laid down.
PF - hopefully parents will be more inclined to check the Organisation's Child Protection Policies.
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CRB checks are workable until a person is 'caught'. The Forms show if a person has been 'suspect' previously
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For over 15 years ........... :'(
Do these men go into the industry simply to enable them to groom young people?
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?? John Barrowman flying close to the wind ??
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Did anybody see tonight’s programme? It still staggers me that so many people thought he was a nice person to be around, like many celebs, hospital bosses, MPs and even the royals.
I remember many years ago reading his book and I was totally shocked at some of the content where he talked about bedding young girls of 14 and 15 and I could not believe how this was allowed to even be published.
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I didn't see that. I saw TV adverts for Gary Glitter too :-\
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A new TV drama sees actor Steve Coogan portray one of the most notorious paedophiles and sex offenders in British criminal history: Jimmy Savile.
Does any1 else find it sick that a programme could even be considered ? I can't stand that Coogan bloke >:( in any form: is he getting a lot of £dosh to be taking on this role? :-X
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It's not something I'd ever watch, and I think it could be distressing for the victims. I'd hope they have been consulted, but honestly, I can't see what purpose it actually serves. Surely the best thing is for it to be left alone.
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I wouldn't watch it either and I don't know why they even wanted to make it tbh, can't see the value at all. And yes, very distressing for the victims and their families.
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Tnx I thought that I was over reacting. What's in the heads of the writer/s in the first instance >:(
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Tnx I thought that I was over reacting. What's in the heads of the writer/s in the first instance >:(
Money. And ratings.
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It is just in bad taste imo.
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What have they come to ............ no respect. It's the BBC ? not what I pay my Licence Fee for.
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When I read about it today, there was something about the documentary leaving out an important report or something and not covering it, something that reflected badly on the BBC I think. So it doesn't even sound like it is an honest portrayal of how it was all handled.
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A few thoughts:
I wasn't allowed to watch Saville as a kid because my dad said he was a pervert. To be honest, I don't know how anyone missed this. Didn't the weirdo super revealing satin running shorts give it away???
Secondly, Coogan is a nice guy. One of my kids was besties with his kid and I used to live down the road from his mom. What he's doing here is pointing out the uncomfortable truth that either everyone knew, or it was so obvious that everyone should have known. People don't like uncomfortable truths and generally want to shoot the messenger.
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I sometimes forget this isn't like Facebook where I spend so much of my time and that you can't "like" posts. ;D Consider your post "liked" ElkWarning. :)
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U might have 1-hand knowledge however, I've found him creepy ...........
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I must admit I like Steve Coogan too,not his Alan Partridge tbh although some of it was funny,he was really good in Philomena with Judi Dench,he also comes across as a nice guy in interviews etc.
I believe (or what I read) the victims were consulted and their input was used to make the series BUT I agree,what's the point,we've seen every documentary about him,we don't now need this. In fact even thinking about him makes my skin crawl
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Yes, a very sensitive performance in Philomena. Apparently four of his victims have waived anonymity to talk at the beginning of each programme to highlight how he got away with it.
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I wasn't allowed to watch Saville as a kid because my dad said he was a pervert. To be honest, I don't know how anyone missed this.
Me I'm afraid ! My children used to collect autographs and each had a book to stick ones in or for someone to write in.
They queued at the Marine Camp Open Day when Saville sat on a podium and signed autographs. I also took photos when their turn came.
Don't worry my now adult children often remind me of my bad judgement.
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Yes, a very sensitive performance in Philomena. Apparently four of his victims have waived anonymity to talk at the beginning of each programme to highlight how he got away with it.
Yes,amazing film,which makes me cry every time I watch it 🙄
Minusminnie,you didn't think he looked creepy?!? Haha nice of your children to remind you ;D
He always creeped me out but Rolf Harris on the other hand ...... :-\
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Minusminnie,you didn't think he looked creepy?!? Haha nice of your children to remind you ;D
[/quote]
Maybe just as an odd individual.
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Facing allegations - at the beginning of the F1 season. A meeting is to take place on Friday.
The future of the Red Bull Formula 1 team is in the spotlight as their boss Christian Horner faces an internal hearing on Friday into a complaint of inappropriate behaviour.
The 50-year-old, who has led Red Bull Racing since its founding in 2005, will be quizzed by an independent lawyer on the complaint.
Parent company Red Bull Gmbh, based near Salzburg in Austria, said on Monday that it is taking the allegations against Horner "extremely seriously".
The team has not confirmed the nature of the complaint made against Horner but BBC Sport understands the claims relate to an allegation of inappropriate and controlling behaviour.
Married to Geri Halliwell .........