Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => Other Health Discussion => Topic started by: warwick01 on September 18, 2021, 12:43:50 PM
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Hi
Just wondering how many ladies are taking a antidepressant along with HRT?? I have been struggling for quite a while with Mental issues associated with post menopause. For me the scariest issues have been a type of OCD dominated by intrusive thoughts. My GP has convinced me to try Mirtazapine AD. Currently I am taking half tablet 7.5 with the intension of increasing to 15mg. But like most on here don't like taking medication.
I have no quality of life at the moment, have increased Oestrogel from 3 to 4 pumps with Utrogestion every 6 weeks. Would like to hear from anyone who finds using HRT and Ad has helped. i am 62 and post menopause.
Wx
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If you are struggling, what's to lose? I fought against ADs but lost several years .......
If it settles your intrusive thought patterns, that has to help? Give it 6-8 months then review? Do U keep a mood/food/symptom diary, which helps to chart progress etc..
:foryou:
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CLKD
Always good to hear from you ;) I have a work book to start documenting. To be honest at 62 thought I was over it - obviously not. I tried reducing my HRT but unfortunately developed more symptoms like insomnia, low mood joint pain that makes me feel 90.... I'm at the point I will take anything to help get my life back.
Wx
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Remember that nothing needs 2 B for ever ;) but Quality of Life is important. 62 is young ;) 8) a time when we can take Life by the horns and go 4 it !!! unless we feel poorly. It can take so many hours trying to sort medication that eases symptoms enough 2 4get them 4 a few hours!
My friend began 'Mirtazpane' 3 years ago and hasn't looked back: another with 'sertraline', feeling so much better. The latter doesn't have menopause issues, simply fed up with work hassle .........
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Hi warwick01, I'm 65, have been on Oestrogel pumps and continuous Utro since the beginning of April (after a looooong time mucking about trying to find an HRT regime that helped) and not long after decided to put myself on Paroxetine (having had it several years before and swore by its efficacy).
Initially I had horrendous side effects, only lasted two days before I stopped and the side effects disappeared immediately. Tried Escitalopram (at a lower dose) but had the same side effects with additional ones thrown in so chucked that in after a few days too. Light bulb went on and (being quite adept at self medicating ::) ) I decided to restart the Paroxetine on a really low dose (cutting tablets in half etc) and gradually weaned myself up - still had side effects but they were manageable and after about four weeks they diminished to almost nothing. Went to the full dose but found that was just a bit too much so am now sitting quite comfortably on three quarters (15mg - which still involves cutting tablets up but it's worth it).
For a while it made me feel really good - it was quite amazing - positive, hopeful, optimistic, full of energy almost bouncing off the walls - sadly that has calmed right down but I still feel a zillion times better - the lows aren't anywhere near as low and the anxiety is more like general concern rather than the fear flashes I was experiencing. Generally I'm feeling, for want of a better word, 'normal'.
For what it's worth, I am taking it because the last time I used it, it was for overwhelmingly intrusive fearful (but totally baseless) thoughts and while it's actually sped my thinking up the fear flashes have diminshed substantially. As CLKD says, what do you have to lose? Just be aware that after you've been on these SSRIs for any length of time and you want to come off, it pays to taper off really slowly to avoid the sometimes awful withdrawal side effects you can get. Mirtazapine isn't specifically an SSRI and may have fewer side effects etc - loads of guff on the internet about it, have a trawl :)
Good luck xx
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Hi Lamplighter
Thanks for replying, your post is vert interesting. My GP gave me 15mg and was annoyed when I told her I had cut them in half to start with. I know my body and had bad experiences with SSRI. I seem to be ok, side effects have reduced. Will move on to full 15mg in 2 weeks as we are having a 5 day break.
I had a conplete melt down just over 2 weeks ago, crying for someone to help me as the intrusive thoughts were so frightening, remember having these post natal.
How much Oestrogel are you using??
Wx
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Hi
I have also just started Mirtazapine because I can’t cope anymore. Ifthis doesn’t help then I don’t know what I’m going to do.
Good luck, hope it goes well for you.
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Hi again w, sorry to hear about the meltdown. As you mention experiencing something similar post natally, I wonder if it isn't hormone related? Do you think it might be more to do with the HRT side of things? Although having said that, ADs can help regardless.
I hope the Mirtazapine you are taking is helping somewhat at least. Also hope your doctor doesn't get too titty about your deciding how much or how little to take - sounds like you know what you are doing and it is your body!
As for me, I was using four pumps daily but this week had to negotiate with consultant down to three in order to get the ok to use Vagifem five days a week (and she can go hang, there's enough in a month's supply for six days a week so that's what I'm using :P ) To be honest, I don't really notice the difference between three or four pumps and probably could even go back to two at some point, but what I do know is that I wouldn't be without it - the HRT is a lifesaver in so many different ways.
Oh and I'm using 100mg Utro daily vaginally (after having read on here that it's the same pill as you take orally) and while I'm not zonking out so much at night I am much less fatigued the next day.
I'd say right now that I'm relatively stable on most fronts, which is nice - amazing the amount of time you can spend researching ways and means to feel better ::)
I do hope you find a good balance yourself, and best of luck with upping your dose xxx
Mum of 2 - good luck to you too xx
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Thanks everyone, your replies really help.
Mum of 2 how long have you been on Mirt ?? and are you taking 15mg along with HRT ??
like you really hoping it works and I can enjoy life again.
Wx
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Did U get any support warwick01 for the PND? What was suggested? You may like to browse the National Society for Pre-menstrual Syndrome (NAPS) - there may be come hints there about managing hormonal upheaval. PMS happens prior to the bleed, 10-14 days B4 and symptoms ease one the period begins.
Waking every morning feeling awful is, awful :-\. I remember it well.
How is your diet overall?
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Hi CLKD
I have taken your advice re diet - thank you
I was only 18 when I suffered in silence with PND never had any help or support from family and was terrified they would take my baby away. It did settle once I got on the right Pill. I suffered a couple of years.
Thanks again Wx
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:'(. how awful. :bighug:
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Hi Warwick01
Yes I am on 15mg and HRT. Feel really bad at the moment but hopping.
Have been taking it for 1 week, HRT for 3 weeks.
Hope all goes well for you.
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Hi Mum of 2. I have been taking Mirtazapine 15mg for 7 weeks now and feeling so much better. Keep going, I think you might notice a bit of improvement over the next week and any drowsiness will start to wear off. As you perhaps know, most improvements are seen between weeks 4 and 6. And I can report that happened to me. Is it helping you sleep?
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Hi Mum of 2
The first week was the worse and i only started on half but was zonked and dizzy. it will lift so keep going.
Wx
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Thank you. I was starting to to feel like giving up but I know I need to give it time. Hope you are all doing well. X
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Hi how you both doing with the Mirtazapine?? it will be 4 weeks on Tuesday for me. I have glimpses of feeling good the I feel off. Still early day I know.
Take care Wx
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How is your diet over-all warwick01? It can help to eat little and often. The brain takes a while to accept medication so that we feel benefit ;-)
:foryou:
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Warwick, I am hopeful you will notice good improvements over the next couple of weeks or so. I continue to feel well on 15 mg.
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CLKD - the down side of Mirt is craving carbs and sweets. I have noticed I have been eating more biscuits and chocolate so trying to watch what I eat.
Gnatty - I think I have noticed more improvement this week, having some joint pain in both hips that wakes me during the night. Not sure if it's a side effect of Mirt or just arthritis. Really need to sleep as this contributed to my melt down 4 weeks ago...
Thanks Wx
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Where exactly is the pain? Hip pain is felt in the groin. Back pain radiates to the area we know as the 'hips'.
Several years ago I woke with deep pain in the muscle of the thighs: turned out it was due to bending over cabinets in antique shops!!! Referred pain from the lower back. Do U take medication 40 mins. B4 you go to bed?
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Hi
Just wondering how you're doing on Mirtazapine?? Any side effects?? and do you feel better??
Wx
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Hi Warwick, I am still taking 15 mg mirtazapine, probably about ten weeks now. I feel like I am continuing to improve but that could also be due to me coming through the other side of hysterectomy and oophorectomy back in June. I wake up and still feel a bit sleepy which is unusual for me but it soon wears off. And I have more interest in sweet things than before so I have to be quite disciplined. Overall I feel well and starting to get my enthusiasm back for things. It's a bit of a melting pot though as I take oestrogel and testosterone so difficult to know what's helping with what.
How are you getting on with it?
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Good to hear you are feeling better Gnatty.
I continued on half tablet for 6 weeks now 3quarters day 3 and feeling a bit shaky/flu type shivery. hope this settles then go onto full tablet in a couple of weeks. I know I would have stopped if the side effects were bad in the beginning.
I suppose it makes sense a return of symptoms when we increase. 7.5 just wasn't enough to settle the anxiety
Wx
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How much hrt are you taking at the moment?
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Hi
Can I join the mirtazapine thread please? I’ve been prescribed it for sleep.
3 years post menopausal but still have anxiety and poor sleep. I’m on patch and utrogestan but it’s not doing a lot for me. Going to trial oral Hrt soon.
Gp has prescribed 15mg per night.
Thanks
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Hi Nas
I'm not good with medication, seem to get all side effects listed. I was prescribed 15mg at night but cut them in half and started on 7.5. Was dizzy and felt weird first 2 weeks. but at 4 weeks felt better. I am currently taking 12.5mg night 4 tonight plus day 6 utrogestion which to be honest not great with. Can only manage 7 days. So today my head is like cotton wool and have period pains.
Hope to feel better tomorrow. Lost of good results with Mirt - good luck Nas
Gnatty - hope I get to full 15mg soon.
Wx
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Hi there, so my GP who has been great said: the trouble with taking a sub clinical dose can mean you get all the side effects but none of the benefits. This certainly happened to me when I started half minimum dose of Sertraline. So when he gave me mirtazapine I did what I was told and started straight away with 15 mg. No bad side effects apart from sleepy for the first couple or three weeks. Slept well almost straight away. The anxiety has lifted gradually and I feel that I am still improving week on week. But ...... Also increased oestrogel and testosterone so that may be helping too! Any questions please ask x
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For me btw joint pain was completely eliminated with hrt.
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Thanks both
I wish the Hrt would sort everything but I just can’t get it right. The patch isn’t really touching the anxiety and sleep issue, yet the next dose up, makes me feel quite ill! Hence the trial of oral HRT.
I would start the mirtazapine, but scared of any ill effects as I have to be on the ball at work and drive around a lot as I live semi rural.
Thanks again x
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Hi Gnatty
I am using 3pumps some times 4 oestrogel with separate Utrogestran for 8 days. I have tried continuas Utro but doesn't work for me. For some reason the last 12 months I have hit a brick wall with my HRT I can;t seem to find the sweet spot I once had. I am 62 and thought things would have settled by now.
I just keep going Wxx
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:hug: warwick01
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Hi Warwick, why don't you stick to 4 pumps of the gel so that you don't get fluctuations with changing from 3 to 4. Also are you now taking 15 mg Mirtazapine? Try and let everything stabilise for a few weeks and then reassess. You will hopefully notice a slow but steady improvement over the next few weeks x
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Hi ladies
I’m on Mirtazipine 15mg, have been on it for a year had to change from a previous one which caused chronic constipation and wow is all I can say, I sleep all night every night, I have no side effects of this drug at all, no dry mouth nothing! Mood wise I felt instantly better the day after I started it!
Not like waiting for weeks for it to kick in like some.
I hope this helps if anyone is apprehensive about starting it.
Smokey (Ann)
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Hi, Im on Venlafaxine Sr and had been for a while . It was 75mg and i cut it in half as although i felt better after about the 3 months or so to level out i did feel a bit detached from my partner and lost motivation to finish a course i was doing at the time.
I have a history of mental health problems, that said i have always functioned =parent, worker, social life. Im 52 , when in my late 20s , for about 6 months i ended up in hospital my depression so bad i was told it was psychotic. What i had was my first intrusive thought, so loud and all encompassing i was terrified and begged for help, to end up that night in a locked ward. It never happened again but set me on a path of OCD intrusive thinking which would be diagnosed too late (i had to figure it out myself through research before confirmed medically). Over years it barely happens, long story short i strategise and i have learned the tricks to ignore it, stop it in its tracks or whatever dependant on my level at the time. At the moment i am completely detached at times as recently suffered a bereavement, i can feel that im far from feeling normal, ive had thoughts but as i said they get cut off quickly as the rumination surrounding the thought that does as much harm. If you can get CBT to tackle the anxiety ie challenge the thought to decrease the associated anxiety. Over 33 years of anti depressant use i can tell you seldom does the medication work on that . I think its one of those problems that have been assigned to depression and so linked to anti depressants but not suitably researched in its own right and assigned its own specific treatment and meds.
I have found menopause imbalance has increased some of my problems again. I had to re apply for anti depressants after being off them because i was more angry , more negative , getting more black and white in my thinking, i was scaring myself. Unfortunately it was tail end of covid so getting to see my Meno dr was just not going to happen . GP prescribed pills which i was greatful for but i felt my hrt should be increased in dosage but thats just not forthcoming. Despite dosage, testosterone etc a lot of my symptoms are raising thier head = tiredness, brain fog, dry scaly skin on my face, itching.
So, id say take a moderate dose but insist on CBT. Best of luck
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I will add i have to take Vit D all of the time as discovered most of uk is deficient , which becomes a larger problem in winter with even less daylight. Among other things this will significantly lower mood and cause tiredness. I also found post bereavement, i would still get 2 or 3 days of 'blunting', , which i could recognise as 'depressive' post point when a period would have happened, esp on the progesterone fortnight, then ir would pass. I vaguely remember a discussion with a friend about the emotional blunting , she experienced it randomly, even when her grandson was born. Id love to hear others experience.
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Hi I’m only in my 30s on hrt patch’s and only a month been on antidepressants I’m feeling so low recently every little thing can’t cope with and being a mother is a blessing their the ones holding me up 🙏.
The symptoms are horrible , hoping to feel better soon can you give me any advice help me along anyone please 😊