Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: Lisa1966 on May 25, 2018, 08:14:54 AM
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Hi ladies,I am on sandrena gel 1mg ish and just not feeling well,I'm noticing a pattern at ovulation and menstruation times,when I'm struggling to cope. I have read John studds theory on this,and it says u need to be on 2.5-5mg of gel,or 100 or 200 patch to over ride ur cycle.has anyone any experience of this,or any advice u can offer me. Thanks.
Lisa x
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Maybe ring his Secretary next week? Some ladies here have seen the Prof too so hopefully will be along with experiences.
I used to sob the night B4 a bleed started even if a period wasn't due so knew it was hormonal. Tears would take over.
:hug:
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Thanks CLKD,I'm so irritable and angry,I could really upset someone,am mid cycle so ovulating I expect,before last period me and daughter fell out,normally I wouldn't say anything,but can't help it. It's horrible. Was wondering what Louise Newson was like,and if any of them do phone consultations,as anxiety makes it hard to travel.
Lisa x
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Prof Studd used to do telephone consults but he can be apparently, a bit abrupt.
I used to throw a hissy fit around 'that' time. What would go by me other days would suddenly cause intense anger >:(.
How is your diet?
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I do try to eat healthy,but it's hard when ur on ur own to be bothered.
Lisa x
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Yep. Maybe prepare lots of veg. to keep in chilled water - drained every day it can be used as and when. Same with meals, batch cook?
Eating every 3 hours can help anxiety too.
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Thanks CLKD,will give it a go.
Lisa x
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Lisa1966, if your are suffering from hormonal anxiety and depression then you need specific and targetted hormone treatment, you can't just bump along on a low dose of HRT and hope for the best because you need to override your cycle. You have read Professor Studd's website and as he states, you need a high dose of oestrogen to override your cycle and you might also need to add ADs but it is a specialised field and you need to get some proper advice from someone who knows what they are talking about.
As CLKD suggested, ring Professor Studd's office and try to get an appointment - he works with two other menopause specialists namely, Dr Mike Savvas and Mr Neal Watson both of whom are very nice and approachable and if you are prepared to be flexible about who you see you might get an appointment more quickly.
In the meantime, have a look at some of GypsyRoseLee's posts, she has been very successfully treated for hormonal anxiety and depression but had had her fair share of setbacks along the way.
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Hi Mary g,I have been ringing around and unfortunately proff studds prices are out of my league,which is a shame as I could have got an appointment next week,Louise newson is abit cheaper,but unfortunately won't be able to see her for 3-4months. I will keep googling to see if there are anymore.how do u look at other people's old posts?
Lisa x
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Hi Lisa
I have terrible anxiety and depression but it's not cyclical it's more constant everyday. I'm peri and went to see a meno consultant ( nhs) and started sandrena gel 6 weeks ago. I'm on 2mg and have to say hopefully without tempting fate that I feel a lot better. It says on PIL that the recommended dose is between 0.5 and 1.5 mg a day so maybe you need a higher dose like me x
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Hi Florence, I think I do need a higher dose, but I don't think the gp will do it as she is clueless. I don't know if she will refer me to meno specialist,my appointment is not until 12th June. I did put gel up to 1.5 for a week or so but put back down to 1.0. I was only prescribed 0.5 and that's a waste of time,so I have had to go in and fill in a repeat prescription request today,don't think that will go down well,but if u can't get an appointment,what r u supposed to do.
Lisa x
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Have a chat with a Pharmacist who may be able to let you know more about what is acceptable regards the amount, then you have something to go back to your GP with.
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Thank you ladies for for the great advice,I will look at all the options and let u know how it goes.
Lisa x
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How R U feeling today?
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Hi CLKD,I'm not so angry and irritable today,just feel exhausted and just not right. How r u ? xx
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Hi Lias and welcome to mm
Having read through your thread, I want to ask one or two questions before I offer any thoughts or advice:
How old are you?
When did the anxiety start?
Have you had low mood or anxiety previously?
What were your periods doing before you started HRT?
How is your general health?
You mentioned that you try to eat healthily but find this hard as you are in your own - do you have close friends and what kind of work do you do?
I have read many threads on this forum from women who have tried the Studd approach and it doesn't work for everyone. There is an alternative approach that involves shutting down your own hormones with a drug(Zoladex) and then giving a balanced dose of oestrogen and progesterone. There would also be other options e.g. have a Mirena fitted and then have oestrogen gel alongside as this might give a more consistent balance that might prevent the cyclical fluctuations that you believe effects your mood.
However, it will be trial and error and sometimes an AD/SSRI is sometimes needed alongside the HRT to truly help.
GPs are rarely clued up about HRT or any meno treatment so if your anxiety is truly down to hormonal issues then you do need to get your GP to refer you to a Gynaecologist in the NHS. It may take some months but is worth pursuing.
I firmly believe that all menopause symptoms, including low mood and anxiety, need to be handled with a range of strategies, as HRT alone cannot solve everything.
It wil involve a great deal of effort on your part to get things sorted and when you are feeling fragile mentally then this is very tough.
Make sure you write symptoms down each day, eat small meals regularly and try getting out for walks to the get the mind and body stimulated.
Don't just rely on hrt or drugs to make everything ok and try not to overthink everything - in my experience it's about finding your own way forward. The meno does ‘mess with our heads' and it's horrid.
DG x
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So sorry Daisydot if it came across in that way but Lisa later mentioned that she couldn't afford to see a specialist privately so I was suggesting she ask for a referral from the GP.
From her remarks I did not assume she was wanting to see someone privately and I'm afraid many women don't realise how expensive it is until they look into it. Maybe, if we do suggest a private specialist we should outline the cost involved. I am personally outraged that we often have to pay to get the appropriate treatment at all - 'Quality of life treatment' comes at great cost, as I well know.
Sorry again DG x
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Hi dg,I am nearly 52,and have suffered with anxiety and depression on and off for 26 years. The first time was dec 1991,after I came off the pill to try for a baby,I also didn't want to hold my baby for first few months,but I had a hard labour and a very bad infection after. My periods were getting few months apart before hrt. As far as I know my health is ok. This started about 3 years ago with loss of confidence,low self esteem,and panic attacks when in traffic.then last year bam complete break down,crippling anxiety 24/7,was suicidal for 8 months,couldn't be left on my own even for a few minutes,this was very hard on my family,I was also put on anti psychotic drugs which were really nasty and made it worse. This was completely different to any of the other times,but no one mentioned hormones,I have come to that conclusion myself,since doing a lot of research.i asked to go back on my trusted ads that had worked before. But my go doesn't have a clue,have tried 4 different hrts and am at my wits end.i am definitely worse mid cycle and period time,so angry and irritable.so this is why I was considering seeing a menopause specialist.
Lisa x
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Daisydot xxxxx
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Hi Dancing Girl thank you x
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Lisa I hope things are easing off a bit for you this morning and your feeling better x
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I have the same situation. Let me know if you find any relief. I can literally wake up on day 14 feeling like a different person...
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Hi daisydot not quite as irritable,buts legs are hurting,and very tired,been working all weekend and today,so at 2 o clock I'm going home for a granny nap lol.hope u r well.
Lisa x
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Goodness Lisa, what a tough time you have had. I think it is time you had more specialist advice so why not write down all you symptoms, past experience and questions and see your GP to ask for a referral. If you are close to London then you can probably be seen by Panay's team on the NHS or ask around for good recommendations in your area.
You are needing an holistic approach to truly find a balance and this is not easy. Keep us posted. DG x
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Thank you dg,I think I can stretch to see someone who costs £200 ish,but proff studd is £350,then with bloods £700,then with possible bone scan £950. That's what they told me when I rang to enquiry anyway. Daisydot saw someone in Leamington spa for a reasonable price,I'm thinking of enquiring there,plus it's not in London which is a bonus.
Lisa x
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Lisa firstly find out what blood tests are needed and get them done on nhs x
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I've previously advised Lisa she doesn't have to go down that route I saw a private meno consultant nearer her area and nearer her budget I advised he will contact her gp with a letter of recommendation including a treatment plan,he will ask her gp if she can have certain requirements on nhs and not cost her uneccesssary fees he's a very fair minded man and is of the opinion it's not fair to be charged fees for a service you are entitled to on the nhs.He is also a leading consultant on the nhs himself.lisa now has the options that are available to her and can make informed choices as to which route she follows ie go private or wait till her gp appointment on the 12th June then ask for an nhs referral which as we are painfully aware takes months,at the present time she is suffering real anxiety over this and needs to be given time to process her thoughts and wishes.I don't think any of us can offer much more than this.
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Lisa - where us your nearest city?
Daisydot's suggestion sounds good.
I saw a lovely gynae privately called Mr Warren in Norwich and it wasn't too expensive. He explained everthing so clearly and was very supportive. I think the first appointment was £250(you'd have to ring to find out if that has changed) and he wrote to my GP and told them what tests he wanted done and all his recommendations for prescriptions etc so I didn't have to pay for those.
There are other good specialists dotted about the country so it's worth doing a search before paying out BUT ask your GP for a referral as well as there may be a good gynae at your local hospital.
DG x
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Hi dg,I live in Northampton,49 mins from Leamington spa. Daisydot said it was £195 when she went. I had thought about a referral but my drs are penny pinching,clueless idiots,and I think it would take too long
Lisa x
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Lisa - Daiydots suggestion sounds good so do look into this option - a good recommendation is always the best way to go.
Do write everything down though - it can really help at any appointment.
DG x
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Lisa can email the consultant and give him a brief history before she goes I've advised her of this,‘‘this is exactly what I did and I got a lovely reply from him thanking me and saying he was looking forward to meeting me I wish I could smuggle him up this way to help in a Nuffield clinic here he'd be inundated lol.
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Lisa, this is an old article from the dreaded Daily Mail! I hope it helps:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2708901/Revealed-The-hormone-gel-banish-depression-women-Its-revolutionary-discovery-lives-countless-women-currently-given-antidepressants-transformed-using-simple-rub-gel-instead.html
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Morning Lisa hope your feeling a bit brighter this morning xx
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Hi Lisa
Just catching up with some threads as I've been away. I presume you don't know how regular your periods would be now as you have been on HRT some time - can you remember how frequent they were when you started HRT (you might have said already?). Do you feel you are still ovulating regularly or are your periods mainly withdrawal bleeds or maybe you can't tell?
I am sure I said on another post that 0.5 g gel is a very low amount. When I recently changed to Sandrena from patches I was given 1.0 g and it wasn't enough - and I am mid 60's. The equivalent of a 50 mcg patch is the standard medium HRT dose for peri and post-menopause, although some women need a lot more than this especially if younger. I was just under 54 when I started hRT in late peri and started on a 50 mcg patch and was on this dose quite happily until I started testosterone at 62 and decided to increase the oestrogen to prevent becoming too T dominant.
Have you thought about, or tried a patch - starting with 50 mcg - and seeing how you feel?
You should be able to get the treatment you need on NHS - but sadly teststerone is hit and miss. I would go for your appointment on 12th June having decided what you want to try and then maybe if necessary also see if you can afford one private appointment to discuss the testosterone which hopefully you can get prescribed on NHS once you've used up the first lot ( as I did - more or less).
Are you taking ADs too or trying to get the right hormone balance before returning to these if necessary?
This has probably all been said already as I haven't read the thread in detail, but just wanted to add my views!
Hurdity x
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Hi hurdity,
My periods were irregular when I went on hrt,I was given elleste in 2016 but didn't do anything,so I just stopped taking it.as thought maybe it wasn't meno,then jan 2017 had a virtual breakdown for 8 months,felt like I was dying,suicidal,scared to be alone even for a minute, memories from the past all bad.this was different to anything I have experienced before.but I this had been going on before that with loss of confidence and low self esteem. While I was ill I tried femoston 1/10 didn't do anything,then in sept I managed to get evorel conti after a lot of arguing with dr,but didn't do anything and on the third month was bleeding on and off, it was then that I started to read on the mm site and realised I shouldn't have been given a conti regime,back at the drs asked to try gel and utrogestan,but he said that's defeating the object,ended up leaving with femoston 2/10,I had lost my fight.1 1/2 months in didn't feel any better and didn't want to be on oral anyway,so went to see another dr,I had anxiety depression,flushes and chills,aches and pains in hands and legs,irritable headaches,nausea and sugar cravings .anyway asked her for gel and utrogestan and was given sandrena 0.5 and utovlan. Obviously utovlan is too high,but I took it for 8days as I didn't finish femoston. I'm now on 1.5mg sandrena and 2.5 utovlan,which I have done on my own as haven't been able to get an appointment.i don't think she's going to be happy on the 12th,and I definitely don't think she will let me have a higher dose. I have thought about asking to try estradot patch as I have read u get on well with them,but when I was on evorel I had sticking problems.i don't know if I am ovulating or not I get pains like I am and feel angry and irritable around that time,so I don't know if my bleed is real or just withdrawal.it only lasted 3 days and was very light. Anyway at the moment I feel very tired all the time,have no motivation,pains in my hands forearms and legs and just feel yuck 🤢.sorry about the long post.
I am on ads 225mg venlafaxine and 45 mg mirtazapine
Lisa x
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Thanks maryg,if only I knew last year what I know now.im just scared it could happen again without the right treatment.
Lisa x
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Hi daisydot,I'm feeling quite anxious this morning,I worked the last 5days so had a lay in this morning,I've slept for 12 hrs, so got abit of a headache,still don't know what to do re mr Parsons,am I just a big baby and not cyclical depression at all. I'm just so scared of a repeat of last year,I can't go through that again,and nor can my family,my mum aged 10 yrs and my daughter ended up on ads.
Lisa x
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Hello Lisa,
I feel for you, poor thing. I know absolutely nothing about HRT and ADs but I have some knowledge on the drug sensitivity subject and just want to tell you that maybe you have been given too many drugs in a row. Your body is just reacting to all the ups and downs caused by them. Detox and then persevere in one regimen for at least 3 months would be my humble advice.
Conolly X
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Lisa, I think Connolly's advice is very sound indeed. I have experience of this - you do not want to know all the drugs I had rammed at me whilst. various doctors were insisting that my surgical menopause and undiagnosed MS were signs of a serious mental health problem! My central nervous system was wrecked by these drugs and the 'on off, on off'. You're also polyphamacy-ing with 2 antidepressants there - have these been reviewed recently? And do you take your venlafaxine religiously at the same time every day? Even delaying your dose by a few hours can lead to withdrawal symptoms with that particular one.
I also think that Daisydot's Mr. Parsons sounds very good and with a nice manner - I do believe he would be able to help if you can get your system to settle a bit first. xxxx
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Hi Lisa so sorry to hear your still struggling with your thoughts.I can only agree with what the others are saying and I honestly think you need someone to “take you in hand†in a kind way.you can't juggle all this information on your own it's stressing you even more to a point where your ready to give up.
You need time with someone who knows what they're doing you can't play around with mental health it's not fair on you.
Beg or borrow and go and get specialist help ASAP would be my advice now Mr Parsons,or similar I'm not pushing him,would look at the whole picture and then re evaluate your circumstances.
Keep positive Lisa and you'll find the strength to make a decision good luck and keep posting xx
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Thank u ladies,I've been on venlafaxine for many years,I was taken off them in 2016 by a psychiatric nurse,and put on a anti psychotic olanzapine,which made matters worse so was put on quetiapine,these r very nasty drugs,last year when really ill I saw 2 psychiatrists,the first one increased the dose of quetiapine and I got worse,so i weaned myself off of them,when I saw the second one my sister begged her to put me in psychiatric hospital as they couldn't cope anymore,she said it would be a waste of time,so I asked to go back on my venlafaxine,which she did ,I am managing to function but I definitely feel it is hormones putting a spanner in the works.i don't know why I was given anti psychotic drugs as I wasn't psychotic and never have been. I also had a course of cbt which helped abit.
Daisydot I have booked an appointment with mr Parsons for 7th of June,I have to see if my daughter can take me though. I have a bit of a problem though,when I saw gp a month ago she prescribed sandrena 0.5 and gave me 3 months supply,but after 3 days I started to get flushes so went to 1.0,since then I'm now on 1.5 so will run out at end of week. I put in a prescription request on Friday for some more and something else,I rang today and they have done the other thing but not the sandrena,I told a little lie and said I had gone to 1.0 but after I thought if I was only on 1.0 it would last till my appointment.so I don't think I will get it. So I either have to reduce dose considerably,or I have a month of femoston 2/10 in the cupboard,or I have some evorel conti patches😩what a mess. Nuffield hospital just called me Parsons has cancelled his clinic on the 7th and I can't see him until the 19th 😭
Lisa x
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Hi again Lisa
Thanks for answering all those questions - I do remember now and have just looked back at our previous convos.
The thing is - you have been given this prescrption ( for HRT) by a GP - but I don't know why you have been prescribed Utovlan? As I mentioned on previous threads - this is norethisterone and not licensed for separate use as part of HRT although perfectly OK to do so as it is prescribed as part of continuous combined HRT, but the dose you have been given is high and is associated with negative side effects in many women. I am sure that this combined with all the other meds you are taking, can't be helping! How terrible for you to be given anti-psychotic drugs if your problems are hormonal only and needing to sort this out first....
When you say your periods were irregular before starting HRT - what sort of gaps were you having between periods? Were they still more or less monthly but irregular, or much longer gaps? This will give a clue as to where you are in menopause. Sorry I can't remember how old you are?
I see what you mean about the dosage and running out of the gel - it is your body and if you need more then you need it! They have to give it to you surely if you are being made to wait until your next appointment?
Do hope you get on OK with your private appointment...
Hurdity x
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Lisa go online to the Nuffield site you got your contact details for mr parsons from send him an email with as much info as you can about your history then explain your present issues with getting further hrt supply from gp and ask for a telephone consultation as your unable to wait.you've nothing to lose by doing this and still keep your appointment on the 19th with him as it's almost 3 weeks away and you can update him.sorry I couldn't help more.x
Oops edit due to shocking typos there lol x
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Hi herdity,I'm 52 in August and I think gaps in periods were about 3months, that was 18 months to 2 years ago
Lisa x
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Hi daisydot,I will send him an email,see what he says xx
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Good luck Lisa xx
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Thanks daisydot,I've sent him a really big email lol,after reading my problems he will probably retire before my appointment 😂xx
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😂
That's a good one keep your sense of humour Lisa it'll help when nothing else seems to xx
He's a lovely man so hopefully he'll be able to offer you some kind of advice good luck xx
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Hi Lisa
Are you feeling any better? :-*
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Hi darlingbabs,I'm still on the rollercoaster of life,anxiety,aches and pains,depressed all the usual,I wish I could say I'm fine,but what's the point of lying. How are you feeling,any better? xx
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Oh I am sorry to hear that. I am actually feeling much better. The combined pill I have been put on has shut down my cycle so I don't seem to get fluctuations now and, although it was a horrific week getting used to it, I have had 3 good days in a row now. I have also been put on a very small amount of testosterone as my level was 0 and I put that on yesterday so looking forward to see if that makes a difference. Fingers crossed for you x
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So glad that you are feeling much better :)xx
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Hi Lisa
You won't know me as I'm not around here much nowadays, but I totally recognise everything you describe. If you can be bothered have a search of my posts and you will read a very familiar story. Mine was a tortuous journey of worsening PMS as I turned 40 + my periods becoming very light + dreadful insomnia + crippling anxiety + suicidal ideation. No one knew what to do with me. Everyone assumed I was just having a nervous breakdown, although otherwise my life was very good. I went to pieces and had to be signed off work for 6 months, and my Mum basically moved in to run our home and take care of our DCs as I couldn't function. I was terrified all day, every day.
I also ended up under the care of a psychiatric nurse and started on a cocktail of various ADs + a low dose of Quietistic. Nothing worked, I just got worse. But very occasionally I would get a blessed few days where I would mysteriously feel 'normal' again. No one else believed it was hormonal, but I remembered feeling similarly desperate and despairing after my first DC was born years ago.
So I ended up at Prof Studd's rooms and he was quite abrupt but 100% confident and reassuring that he could cure me. He told me I belonged to a group of women who were too sensitive to progesterone fluctuations, and that the peri menopause was to blame for all my misery. He assured me he saw women just like me (and worse) every day. He started me on 3 pumps of Oestrogel + 100mg of Utrogestan for 7 days per month + little blob of testosterone gel. To be honest, it didn't do much. So 2 very long months later he increased my dose to 4 pumps - whilst, at the same time, my new GP changed my AD to a low dose of sertraline.
That was exactly 2 years ago today, and I have never looked back. Within 24 hours I felt something flicker back to life in my head. Within a week I felt able for my Mum to move back to her home again and could function better (albeit still quite limited). The anxiety just drained away. The insomnia just disappeared. I went back to work and just became 'me' again. There were a few setbacks, and some days I still struggled hugely and, like you, lived in fear of going back to that terrible black place I had been in before.
But, 2 years on I am back to normal and infact even better than before. Looking back, even before my full peri symptoms hit I had felt low and flat for years. Early menopause runs in my family, and from 35 onwards my lowering oestrogen had obviously affected me.
Today, I seem to have settled into a pattern of feeling great for 6-7 weeks, then every other month I get a dip of feeling flat and bleak for a week or so (but just like normal PMS again). So, I think my medication is controlling my cycle 95% of the time but presumably my own progesterone still causes problems sometimes?
I hope my story gives you hope. I am now evangelical about informing women of the potential dangers that hormones can cause to mental health. I am sure that with the right medication you will get over this.
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Lovely informative post GypsyRoseLee xx
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Hello Ladies.
I just wanted to say I also appreciate your post GypsyRoseLee. I followed your journey when you were struggling and it's very kind of you to help other women by telling your story and giving us all hope!
I'm so pleased that you found the answer to your problems and wish you continued good health.
Take care.
K.
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Thank you. I am just passionate now about getting this OUT THERE!!! Hormones can cause total havoc in women's lives. Back in the 60s my poor Great Aunt ended up being committed to an asylum for a while with what I now 100% believe to be erratic behaviour caused by hormonal fluctuations during her peri menopause. The very same nearly happened to my Grandmother (her sister) and my Mum suffered terribly with 'her nerves' in her early 40s but miraculously recovered after a full BSO + hysterectomy and going on HRT.
This is often an inherited, dangerous 'disease' and women and HCPs need to be informed.
I have my suspicions that poor Kate Spade was a sufferer and I am certain that Marian Keyes is too.
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Hi GRL,
Mine is a very similar story to yours and I found your posts very helpful. I'm finally 🤞🏻on the right track. So a big hug and thank you from me.
Robin
X
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GRL, I just want you to know that I am in tears reading how much you've improved since last I was here. Truly. That is absolutely wonderful and if anyone deserves to feel better, it is you after all you have been through. xxxx
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GRL this too sounds exactly like me but I had never had a cycle until my late 30s as I had been on depo provera from 16 so no ovulation, or pregnant. My psychiatrist changed my medication 7 times with various different combinations over 10 months to absolutely no avail. It is (fingers crossed) only since I have had my cycle turned off again via a combined birth control pill that I have felt normal in the last 2 wks of my monthly cycle. It is literally like having a pair of dry dark glasses suddenly removed and the physical and proverbial weight lifted off my shoulders. I am also 2 days into testosterone therapy as my testosterone level was 0.
What I don't understand is how psychiatrists/GPs/anyone don't know anything about this? They know what PMS is but this is really primarily about the mood symptoms of anhedonia, depression, generalised anxiety, panic attacks etc
There must be so many women in their late 30s/early 40s who are experiencing this.
I would love to know what can be done about this and how awareness can be raised amongst healthcare professionals (at the very least).
Any ideas/organisations / suggestions do please let me know as I am also passionate about getting this out there to assist all those women who are sitting there in fear and silence and wondering what on earth is happening to them?
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So sorry to read your experiences too, Darlingbabs. :(
There has been a certain amount of interest in highlighting the menopause in the media (often stories from celebs), but no one has really covered the real dark depths of menopause and the appalling 'treatment' women have received from GP's and even some gynaecologists and subsequently being sent to psychiatrists (myself included after my surgical menopause induced by oopherectomy at age 46). I had high hopes for Kirsty Wark's 'Menopause and Me', but found it far too lukewarm.
I am passionate about raising awareness regarding surgical menopause personally, and have been thinking about the platforms that can be used to get the message out there. If we can brainstorm the 'menopause message' in general here and how this could be achieved, that would be wonderful! xxxx
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Hello again ladies.
I was in the hair dressers yesterday and the young woman cutting my hair told me that she has been experiencing anxiety and her doctor has prescribed exercise so she has started swimming. She went on to say that she has changed from being a generally cold person to feeling suddenly hot, especially at night. She is thirty eight so I wondered if it could be hormones and she said her mother had recently suggested the same thing, she also recalls having panic attacks at puberty. In fairness I'm not sure how much she told her GP but what do you think would help her ladies? A couple of lengths at the local pool or a trial of HRT? I know, I know it's a tough one! Sorry for the sarcasm but it seems appropriate.
Take care all.
K.
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Thanks GRL, you are an inspiration to so many women on here and your story is helping other women identify with hormonal anxiety and depression aka reproductive depression.
Professor Studd has had his critics on here in the past - as have I from various members for recommending him - but he really knows his stuff and is an expert on hormonal anxiety and depression so I make no apology for singing his praises. GRL is a good example of someone with hormonal based depression who needed targetted and specific treatment, not just a bog standard HRT regime from a GP who probably just googled 'HRT' and will probably bung most women on ADs anyway. Even those who do manage to get HRT are often on too low a dose of oestrogen and find themselves stuck in what I called the HRT halfway house feeling half baked with only moderate symptom relief.
Therefore, I think it is very important to distinguish between women with routine menopause symptoms that can easily be reversed with standard forms of HRT at standard doses (lucky them) from women who are progesterone intolerant (often severely progesterone intolerant) or have hormonal anxiety and depression which becomes worse at menopause. Progesterone intolerance and reproductive depression need to be treated by specialists who know what they are doing.
Tempest, agree about the Kirsty Wark programme, it didn't tackle the issues and didn't discuss HRT in any meaningful way. Remember the nurse with the dreadful hot frushes and sweating problems? How anyone can think that is an acceptable way for someone to live is completely beyond me.
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Kathleen - a couple of lengths of a pool won't hurt, regardless of whether the issues are/not hormonal. Maybe the suggestion could be made that she keeps a mood/food/symptom diary for 3 months, considers which symptoms are the most bothersome thus far and then see the Practice Nurse at the surgery?
Also: The National Society for Pre-menstrual Syndrome saved my Life in my mid-30s. Lots of useful info about hormonal dips and rises, how, what and when to eat on a regular basis, a habit I try to keep to - now in my mid-60s. I haven't been there recently but perhaps it's a place to start? Dr Kathleen was well B4 her time!
If anxiety and/or depression doesn't respond to hormonal therapy then appropriate medication should be considered. Or vice versa. I had no choice, I had to take ADs as well as having the emergency anti-anxiety drug to hand. I think that's why 'the change' didn't affect me as it might have done. Being prone to anxiety and depression I might well have had a much ruffer journey :-\.
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Hello again ladies.
I agree that the Kirsty Wark programme was disappointing.
I actually watched her interview Elton John on Newsnight last night. There were discussing the late Princess of Wales and I'm sure that she referred to her as 'Princess Anne‘. I immediately thought ' bit of a slip there Kirsty maybe time to up the dose '. Sorry that's more sarcasm from me isn't it, I wonder if it's becoming a bit of a problem lol.
Wishing you all well.
K.
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Unfortunately, I haven't got far with my 'message' aside from spreading the word among family, friends and colleagues. But, like Tempest says, it would be wonderful to move this forward onto different media platforms. I used to do some acting so am confident speaking infront of an audience etc. I would love to use my experience to reassure women and give them hope.
Prof Studd told me that he has seen so many women who are misdiagnosed with nervous breakdowns or bi polar when it is hormonal issues. Did you know that twice as many women than men are diagnosed with depression, bi polar and anxiety? Because men don't experience hormonal fluctuations, do they.
Like your stylist, Kathleen, I suffered with peculiar pangs of panic/misery which lasted a year or so when I hit puberty. The exact same happened to my daughter, and she now gets PMS just as I did. I can't bear the thought she might suffer with PND and reproductive depression too. This is partly why I am so passionate about telling people of the dangers of hormonal depression.
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Hello Tempest, lovely.
I haven't seen you on here for a long while, and I've often thought of you and wondered how your battle was going?
Hopefully if we can all get our heads together we might come up with ideas to turn our negative experiences into positive outcomes for other women?
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I totally agree with you MaryG (as always). I know Prof Studd can be gruff and abrupt, but I didn't need him to be my new best friend. I needed him to cure me, and he did.
There is definitely a distinction to be made between women suffering with typical menopausal issues AND women for whom reproductive depression is devastating and potentially fatal. Me, and women like me, will not be cured by changing our diet or doing yoga, for God's sake. We need very specialised expertise and support.
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Hi GRL,thank you so much for telling me about your journey,I am not in a good place right now,but your inspirational story has given me some hope,that I too can feel better and be able to cope,some day soon.
I'm so glad that you are feeling so much better,this is a massive problem for so many women,and it is imperative that more is done,to educate hcps,so that the correct diagnosis can be made,and save a lot distress and misery for these women.i also imagine that giving awareness to hcps,could also save lives.its just so sad,I hope this is the answer to how I am feeling,but until my appointment I am just struggling on xx
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Hello me again ladies.
As we often say on the forum, we are all different and this is demonstrated by the range of experiences, for example after giving birth some of us are fine or just have a few days of tears known as the baby blues, some have post natal depression and others become psychotic and need hospital treatment. The same with morning sickness, only a fleeting problem for some but requiring hospital treatment for others. I would love to know what causes these variations and if we could do something to help ourselves other than medication. I suppose the answer would only come through research and that's unlikely.
Take care all.
K.
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GypsyRoseLee - Thanks so much for taking the time to come on here and give such words of encouragement to Lisa1966 who is going through the same terribly difficult hormonal upheavals that you were! I know you did come back here to tell us a while back how well you were doing (and your previous absence was encouraging - please take that the right way!!) , but so fantastic that you keep reading and to respond when you see a member going through similar.
As for Prof Studd - in (most of) the last 8 or so years I have been a member of this forum, I don't think I have ever seen a member take issue or disagree with his pioneering views and approach to reproductive depression. I for one regularly link members to his website pages on this issue particularly because doctors so frequently attribute any woman's mental issues in mid-life to true depression and anxiety - and send her down a particular treatment route (which may not be approrpriate) without even considering that hormones could be the cause. (As an aside his very specific low dose progesterone regime he prescribes for very progesterone intolerant women has been questioned (cautioned) by professional gynaecologists notably Dr Currie, and it is only the blanket recommendation of this regime to forum members without adequate supervision, coupled with the idea that a visit to Prof Studd's private London clinics is the only way to get this treatment.
We are very grateful to those members (like you GypsyRoseLee) who generously share the results of their consultations with such gynaecologists so that other women can benefit - by reading about the treatments and request it as necessary from their local GP or menopause clinic. That is one of the strengths of this forum!
Lisa1966 - not long to go now - but remember - at the very least you need to change your progestogen to one that is better tolerated, and hopefully arrive at an oestrogen dose that suits you. Are you feeling any better yet after your increase in Sandrena?
Hurdity x
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Hi herdity,no I don't feel any better,I'm starting to worry that it's not menopause,that's causing the anxiety and depression,surely I would be feeling a bit better by now. I've tried four different hrts,and still not any better. I know I definitely need to change the progesterone,as after about 7 days I get angry and irritable. I've been very low for a few days,and feeling unwell,which then causes anxiety. I started withdrawal bleed yesterday,but that takes 41/2 days to start after last tablet,then is very light for 3 days. I just don't know anymore,I just want this nightmare to end
Lisa xx
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Lisa, I am no expert on HRT (I am 38 and I think it's PMDD that I have), however I was put on HRT to try to stop my cycle so that I didn't ovulate and spend days 14 to 28 feeling anxious and depressed. However, the HRT I had (5 pumps estrogel and 12 days utrogestan) didn't manage to shut down my cycle and, instead, I felt much worse as I am clearly very sensitive to changing levels of hormones over the cycle rather than progesterone per se. Going on the combined birth control pill does seem to have stopped ovulation, hormonal fluctuations and the ensuing madness.....I don't know if HRT for menopause is supposed to shut your cycle down or not but, could it be that you might feel better if you did have it completely shut down?
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Hi darlingbabs,I think I do need my cycle shut down completely,I don't know whether you can have the bcp at my age.when I was on bcp and depo I didn't feel like this
Lisa xx
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me too. well you can definitely be on combined pill until 50 and the progesterone only pill until 55 i think. I may well just go back on depo as a long term solution - i think you have to weigh up the costs vs benefits - yes its probably not ideal to be on any of them until 55 as it increases the risk of various cancers but the increase is only slight in total percentage terms and its a hell of a lot better than being mad for 50% of the month. Good luck with it all, anything i can do to help, please let me know. i know how awful it can be....
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Thank you darlingbabs,I really appreciate your input,I will ask the gp about options
Lisa xx
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I don't think you can even be prescribed Qlaira ( with bio-identical oestrogen) beyond 50 - but if any of them are low risk well that one is, so it is possible a doc may well be prepared to do so in the circumstances. I think it is the stronger synthetic oestrogens that are not recommended in "older" women. Unfortunately with the POP you don't replace oestrogen and some of them also depress oestrogen levels which is probably not the best idea in early 50's if you are well into peri-menopause.
Darlingbabs - HRT in the usual doses does not shut down the cycle which is why some women don't get on with it in very early peri-menopause. The Mirena though will give a constant level of progestogen thus flattening out the fluctuations ( although ovulation still takes place in many women) and the constant oestrogen dose also prevents the low dips which normally occur during the last part of the cycle.
Hurdity x
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Thanks Hurdity - will quilara stop you ovulating?
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Yes - it is a CCP (Combined Contraceptive Pill), not HRT, so shuts down your cycle I think it can take a couple of months.
Hurdity x
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Bumped up for Ladybt28.