Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => Personal Experiences => Topic started by: Dancinggirl on October 20, 2014, 07:29:15 PM
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Hi Everyone
I was reading through the thread 'Not on HRT' and it struck me what a controversial thing HRT still is. The menopause still holds so many mysteries and fears - not least that it heralds the onset of 'growing older'!!! :-X
100 years ago we would be lucky to get to 50 so the menopause wasn't really an issue. Though HRT has been around for some time now, we are really the first generation who are actually demanding that our symptoms be recognised and helped.
I was told to take a break from HRT last autumn when my Mirena had reached the end of it's life and I thought it was a good idea to come off HRT to see how I coped. I have never been that comfortable being on HRT - I am a life vegetarian (my father was a life vegetarian) and I was brought up to be very wary of any medication. My father was very against antibiotics as he felt they should be only used when absolutely necessary - oh boy was he right on that one. Unfortunately he smoked and died of lung cancer aged 57!!!
Over the last 30 or so years I have grown away from my childhood indoctrination and am now more open to what modern medicine can offer. This site has opened my eyes to so many things and I have learned so much. I was always so against antidepressants but having read posts from ladies who have really benefited from ADs I have changed my view on this. If I get depressed again and the GP thinks I need ADs - I will take them.
I took the Pill from age 17 because I suffered terrible period pains and I wanted to train to become a professional ballet dancer. The Pill enabled me to have a good career as a ballet dancer and later as a singer, dancer and actress - I performed in over 40 professional productions.
I had my 2 children in my early 30s and then my periods went haywire! I had to use HRT because of premature menopause in my mid/late 30s and had to put up with very disapproving reactions from many quarters. Many people took it upon themselves to question what the doctors had prescribed and that I was not only foolish to take HRT but somehow weak. The lobby against HRT is very strong - so I think it is understandable that many women often feel defensive about something that enables them to cope with very stressful lives and brings some "quality of life". There are those who cannot use HRT because of other health issues and many go through a very rough time. Alternative non HRT drugs to help with meno symptoms can bring some nasty side effects and often do not work.
HRT doesn't always work either. I think we would all love something that was entirely safe that would alleviate all those flushes, sleepless nights, aches, pains etc. and I doubt many would refuse taking such a remedy if it existed. The person who comes up with that drug or remedy will be a very rich person indeed.
There is no doubt that there is exploitation from many sources that offer all kinds of remedies, treatments and cures and making money out of peoples suffering. My son was diagnosed with a Primary Language disorder when he was 4 years old. His communication skills had not developed normally and after 2 years of speech and language therapy we got this diagnosis that put him within the autistic spectrum. I took advice from every professional and appropriate charity I could and managed to get him the eduction he required and I am proud to say he is doing very well. It was highly stressful, there is still a lot of heartache - I nearly had a breakdown at one point but I was really lucky to have supportive friends as my family were useless. I had counselling and CBTI for over a year that was really beneficial. I came into contact with many children with similar problems but the thing that upset me the most was when the parents of these children began to seek alternative therapies that offered 'magic' cures. These parents wasted so much money and valuable time believing someone could cure their child but their child wasn't getting the help they needed.
I am not saying alternative therapies e.g. herbs, phytoestrogens etc. for meno symptoms are not worth trying. I am currently trying melatonin to help me sleep - sadly, with not much success. I would, however, urge you to approach these things with caution, seek professional advice, do your research - many of these things cost a lot of money and there are many people out there making spurious claims. The section on this site on alternative Therapies is very good. This is a reputable website so I trust the info it gives.
This site really highlights how different we all are and also reflects the different approaches people take to, not just the menopause but many aspects of our health and lives.
I find this site so supportive do please keep sharing and caring.
DG xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx :hug:
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:thankyou:
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Thank you Limpy and Stella
Thank you for your responses.
I am grappling with the idea of going back on HRT at the moment - hence my reflections on my experiences with hormone treatment and medical interventions in general.
The treatment we get for meno on the NHS is patchy at best and the inconsistency makes it so much harder to know what to do for the best.
I am going to see a gynae privately as I feel it's the only way to get some quality time from someone I am hoping will look at me holistically and advice accordingly. At 58 and a half the time is running out before HRT will no longer be an option. The life stresses are racking up again as my lovely sister is back in hospital seriously ill and yesterday I was so tired I was struggling to put words together in the right order during my tour - I am a tour guide for a brewery.
I read Marilyn's book cover to cover back when I had my 3 year break from HRT and followed her advice with no positive outcome - I felt a real failure. Just as HRT doesn't work for everyone it's the same with alternative therapies.
Any more thoughts anyone?
DG x
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I am going to see a gynae privately as I feel it's the only way to get some quality time from someone I am hoping will look at me holistically
Just my thoughts - i wondered who you are going to see ? - as don't necessarily expect anything 'better' or holistic just because you are going privately.
Others may have recommendations on here of someone who fits your bill - or you may have already followed that.
Hattie X
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I am going to see a gynae privately as I feel it's the only way to get some quality time from someone I am hoping will look at me holistically and advice accordingly.
When I was going through the wringer with menopause problems, I forced my then totally unsympathetic doctor to give me a referral to a private gynae. All I wanted was some information and reassurance that things would turn out ok - I was on my 4th type of HRT by then. It was the most awful appointment with a female gynae. I came out in floods of tears. She neither listened to me nor reassured me. She was of the opinion that I should just get on with it. And she did not seem to be all that clued up on the menopause and HRT. I was devastated.
Things have moved on since then (7-8 years ago). I hope. So I wish you well. But do not get your hopes up to high. Make sure that the person you are seeing does have a specialization in the menopause or you may be wasting your time and money.
Bramble
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Good luck to everyone in their chosen course of action. Try not to compare your own experiences with others, that is a mistake I made. I looked at what others said to me, what I read in magazines and on forums and I started trying to apply what worked for them to myself. Not much worked as I was not them and they were not me.
I did spend a lot of money on things that were 'recommended' and any relief was transient and temporary.
Gradually I am getting to know myself and am learning that it is ok to be me and what is right for me is not necessarily what others should, or will, do. I feel like I am waking up from a long sleep, years of wandering aimlessly down paths that have led me to nowhere. I am really hoping my 60s will prove better and more fulfilling than my 50s have been and I will learn to smile again :).
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It has always been a sorrow of mine that I am not more like my mother. She was a gracious, generous, gentle soul until the day she died.
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Thank you ladies - your comments and thoughts are great.
We are all different and sharing our experiences can really help us to find positive outcomes for ourselves. I think there is a real danger though, that when we hear about some of the negative experiences this can scare us - being open and keeping a balanced view is very difficult - we need to hear the bad as well as the good. I am finding it so difficult to be objective about myself and what is best for me.
RE. seeing a private gynae, I have made an appointment with someone who states that one of his special interests is 'the menopause and HRT' on his website, so I am hoping he will be a good one to see. I am seeing one of the GPs at my local surgery this Thursday who has been very supportive thus far and will ask her advice about this consultant and whether she can recommend him.
My mother had premature menopause and I remember her being very cranky and temperamental through my teens and beyond because she must have beeb suffering from meno symptoms.
She never used HRT - I doubt she would have taken it even if it was offered, she won't even take an aspirin for a headache. I now understand why she was so difficult - it was very difficult for us kids as we felt we had to 'tip toe' around her. She is now 86 and has done ok despite being oestrogen deficient so early but she has had vulva cancer (truly horrible) and she has shrunk by about 4 inches in height.
I think I am kinder to my children than my mother was with us - or at least I hope I am!!!
The NHS is in such a crisis state as it is sooo over stretched and I feel this puts we ladies in a difficult position because meno symptoms are not really an illness and won't kill us. I certainly feel I shouldn't really be bothering these over worked GPs with my relatively minor problems (they are not minor to me though).
Are we expecting too much from the NHS when it comes to quality of life issues like meno symptoms? DG xxx
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Today's Daily Mail on line has quite a big peice on the benefits of HRT, Dr Heather Currie and others put there in put in.
I am useless and don't know how to link it. I am considering the HRT route as the pain specialist I saw said meno is playing its part with my pelvic pain.
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Thank you for your heartfelt post.
I am sorry that melatonin has not worked for you especially as I think I recommended it to you. I can only say that it works for me, it also quietens the ringing in my right ear which helps me get off to sleep.
It also works for my OH too, but he does not take it too often as he says its it leaves him groggy in the mornings and also if he gets up in the middle of the night to go too the loo.
Melatonin is one of the most research, and is not just for helping with delayed sleep syndrome, it is also a powerful anti oxidant amongst other things.
I am sorry it does not work for you DG.
Sleep problems are not just due to menopause they have many causes for men and women, high cortisol levels, stress and an overactive mind are amongst the many culprits.
As you are vegetarian you can't have the soporific effect of a turkey sandwich along with a warm glass of milk a a sprinkling of nutmeg, eaten about nine o'clock at night and maybe a melatonin capsule, really can zonk you out.
Do hope you have success with your appointment and get the answers you are looking for.
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Thank you SL
It was actually me that asked about melatonin and you gave me advice which was very helpful. I had looked at the research and I thought it made sense that if I wasn't producing melatonin then it made sense to replace it.
I have been taking the melatonin every night for a while now. I tried the 3mg you just take to help you to fall asleep but I found I was then awake from about 4pm in the morning. I then tried the 3mg slow release and initially I thought it helped a bit with the quality of the sleep I did get but it doesn't seem to work every night. My main issue is round getting up to pee so many times in the night since I came off HRT - I find I can't get back off to sleep easily and I hoped the melatonin might help with this. Even while on HRT I still got up 1-3 times per night but fell asleep easily afterwards but now it is often 4 or more times. I've been told not to drink after 6pm, so often go to bed rather thirsty (I do have very small sips of water to keep my mouth moist) and the GP also gave me diuretics to take late afternoon as she thought I was retaining fluids!!!!. I think the diuretics actually make me dehydrated as I get a headache by the morning and I still got up several times but passed less pee - so I've abandoned these.
I kept a diary for a few days to monitor what I was drinking and I only drink between 1-1.25 litres per day - yet I'm peeing quite big amounts through the night!!!!! I can go up to 5 hours between pees during the day !!!
Now it's a bit cooler I am sleeping better. Though I get hot flushes they are not severe, for me it's about not being able to control my body temperature - I'm either too hot or too cold in bed. I practise Mindful Meditation and do the things that are supposed to induce good sleep but I now feel I have to just put up with broken nights.
It's the lack of quality sleep that is making me seriously think about going back on HRT - Life is not that stressful at the moment but that could change and if I'm not sleeping well now and getting rather tired then if the stresses build up I will be in serious trouble.
DG x
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Are we expecting too much from the NHS when it comes to quality of life issues like meno symptoms?
Well, what shocked me when I started - back at the end of 1990s - it was this total ignorance of all those who I tried to get help from, which added to all difficulties.
In demanding job than, I was crawling out from my heavily stained with blood bed, knackered after nights spend on changing drenched in sweat tea-shirts, with my mind in cotton wool and whole body shaking... I don't even want to remember all this!
They tried to put me on ADs, but because I was on my own, with my livelihood depending solely on myself, I had to find better ways than becoming a vegetable at 48. Hence my decision to go on HRT.
I become raging Feminist since. I find it ludicrous that in 21st century we must go through so much confusion - symptoms aside, the whole treatment by others makes Meno so difficult still, the whole taboo of it even worst.
Ironically, my time came at most severe societal changes ever. Friendships falling apart, family breaking up, services cut, and raging ageism with discrimination!
Good thing about all this was that confused as hell as I was I decided to enter Uni - to get my mind away from symptoms - and to find out what is going on. My Masters Degree achieved with Merit was an ironic reward for my suffering ;)
I found that focusing on something I became passionate about helped a lot to go through my Meno.
I still don't know what I can do next, thought, because by standards of most I have no rights anymore...expected to watch TV all day. It is very very sad, I find, how we, older women are perceived in modern world!
Let's try and treat each other well at least!
All the best! :)
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Thank you orria
I think it is really interesting to learn the journey that many of us have had through this very challenging time in our lives. It's not just the meno symptoms but so much else going on around us. As you rightly say, the agism thing is a difficult one - yes, we need to move aside to allow the younger generation to move in but we are now expected to work till at least 66 and I certainly don't want to retire as such - I'd like to think I could be an active contributor to society in my 70s and beyond.
The article on the Daily Mail website which features experiences from profession women including Dr. Currie herself really supports the idea that managing the menopause better will benefit all of society.
I am a tour hide and it is very exhausting work, physically and mentally, though technically this is seen as part time casual work!!! The lack of sleep is making it so hard to get through each tour I sometimes cannot remember what I am supposed to tell them, which can be frightening.
When I lived in London I was definitely aware that my age was an issue when I applied for jobs. Here on the Suffolk coast there is a real storage of young people so when I applied for a job here they were truly excited to find someone with experience that wanted a job with them - regardless of age. It is great to be valued. DG x
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I often wonder if the " pill" wreaked havoc with our bodies and if women who have never been on it have such strong menopausal symptoms
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Hi again :)
I don't accept any of that 'we need to move aside to allow the younger generation to move in'. We are not dead yet therefore very much here, with equal rights - as any other, young or men! And that's how our world ought to be organised - inclusive! Full stop.
Like you, I want to be engaged, I want to focus - this stupid discrimination gets in my way! Wrrr! >:(
Winterose - it is gentetical thing. Remember your mother? Remember your own puberty? ... I can swear I feel exactly the same! The same rebel ;))
Must dash.. Good day! :-*
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I also think that our meno experiences are written in our genes. I have followed a very similar pattern to my mother and grandmother. My sister, however, must have got a different set of genes as she didn't get the period pains and didn't have the premature meno.
I have been told (though I am not certain this is accurate) that being on The Pill may have prevented me from suffering bone loss too early - as a dancer my weight was quite low and it is quite common for dancers to have no periods at all because of low body fat and therefore be oestrogen deficient. The Pill allowed me to have a career - I don't what I would have done without it. Dg x
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I took the Pill for 11 years+ and fortunately haven't had too bad a menopause thus far. I had DREADFUL period pains which is why I took the medication. I mean really really bad ones, clotting, nausea, flooding, intense pain ……. every 32 days.
We are lucky in that we have choices. The women I feel sorry for are those in countries where medication is not available due to living in War Zones and those under the control of men who keep their women in purdah ……..
I have no idea how my Mother's menopause went - I remember her crashing fatigue. I don't discuss issues with my sister nor closest female cousin ……….
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My mum had me by Cesarian Section due to face presentation after 9 hours of labour and I had my daughter by CS for FP after 9 hours of labour.
Mum had hysterectomy at 38 with ovaries retained, I had mine at 38 with ovaries retained so I think I am very like mum was.
However she was not one to talk about bodily functions or ladies parts or feelings so apart from that I don't know how she felt or coped, there certainly wasn't any HRT around in her day and I can remember being quite scared of her when I was small. She was always so angry.
Shame she is no longer with me to ask now I am in menopause.
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Very interesting to here the experiences of the menopause in past generations. I think we will all be more supportive of our daughters through their menopause. DG x
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Dancing Girl - I was advised by a renal surgeon (who I worked with) that not drinking encouraged the kidneys to work more = getting up more often in the night! When I began drinking more after 4.00 p.m. until bed time I don't have to get out of bed as much. There is a condition which causes an irritated bladder at night so that needs to be discussed with your GP perhaps?
Also, VA can cause irritated bladder!
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Ah CLKD - we were told by the enuresis clinic my daughter attended that she should drink more! And go to the loo lots too. Lots of water and light coloured squash (not blackcurrant). This was during the day though, not after 6pm.
I had to drink plenty after a kidney stone and found that I was not waking up in the middle of the night for my usual visit, so there may be something in this.
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CLKD - very interesting about actually drinking more through the evening - I'm going to give this a go. It is certainly not helping not drinking after 6pm. Using diuretics seemed a bit bonkers to me as well as I really don't think I'm retaining fluids in my legs (as she suggested) but I felt I had to follow my GPs advice to see if it helped. I have quite skinny legs and I've never noticed them being swollen!!!
I try to drink plenty of fluids through the day - small amounts often - I don't actually get very thirsty unless I am doing strenuous stuff that makes me sweat a lot.
When I saw the urologist and had the cystoscopy he said to go back if things didn't improve - so I may ask to be sent back to him. My nocturia has definitely been worse since I came off HRT so the lack of oestrogen really has had a negative effect on my bladder. I have looked at the COB Foundation website which has the various treatments for all bladder issues. For Nocturia I think there is a hormone treatment but it has some nasty side effects so few people take it.
I've had so much conflicting advice - the urologist told me to keep practising the pelvic floor exercises but when I do them my urethra starts to burn and when I pee it feels as though my urethra is swollen. When I get the burning now I actually concentrate on relaxing my pelvic floor and it seems to help!!!!
The Estring is helping to keep the burning at bay most of the time and I had hoped this local oestrogen would help my bladder but sadly not.
I'm seeing my GP tomorrow - let's see what she comes up with this time!!
DG x
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DG.
My mother has had the same problem re getting up in the night for a pee for years.
You have probably tried this but she takes a pill called Vesicare at night. It enables her bladder to hold more so she is not up so often. It's very successful for her.
Here are some details
VESIcare (solifenacin) reduces muscle spasms of the bladder and urinary tract.
VESIcare is used to treat symptoms of overactive bladder, such as frequent or urgent urination, and incontinence (urine leakage).
Honeyb x
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Thank you honeybun
I think that is one of the drugs that are suggested on the various sites about over active bladder problems - I will certainly try this if it is prescribed.
Last night was truly awful. Yesterday evening I had visited my sister in hospital which was a bit stressful as she is having a terrible time (won't go into it now as it is so complicated).
Hospitals are so hot and the chairs are plastic so I got very hot and my urethra started to burn a bit. The burning calmed down on the journey home but I was very thirsty so had a few gulps of water. I did my usual routine before bed that helps me prepare for sleep and did drop off quite quickly. To cut a long story short I got up more that 6 times to pee and from 2.30am I only managed to snooze intermittently. At 4.30am I took a spoonful of cough medicine which gave me a couple of hours sleep.
I saw the GP this morning and she highly recommended the gynae I have arranged to see and is doing a referral letter - I'm seeing a Dr. Richard Warren in late November and I'll let everyone know how it goes.
I will ask to go back to the urologist if Dr Warren thinks I should pursue that route as well.
Thanks for all you support everyone - this thread has really been a rather "heart of my sleeve" indulgence for me. I find writing things down very therapeutic. DG xxxxxxxx
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Swelling in legs can be easy to detect. If 1 pushes the skin on the calves and an indent remains, then there is water retention. If the skin pop back up without leaving a dent, then there isn't swelling ;)
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Thank you CKLD
Just tried your test - pushed my fingers into my calves and it all sprang back - so that must mean I'm not retaining fluid in my legs.
I personally think it's combination of disturbed sleep since coming off HRT and possibly pressure on my bladder and/or my bladder is overactive.
I'm now looking for to seeing this gynae to get his advice. Part of me is reluctant to go back on HRT and the other part just wants some decent sleep - so if HRT will do the trick , then so be it.
DG x
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Have you tried bicarb of soda diluted into boiled/cooled water, sipped regularly? It can ease the urinary tract. Whatever, drink more!
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I often drink the bicarb remedy - really good for calming things. The GP tested my urine this morning but there was no infection just the usual trace of blood. DG x
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Dancinggirl,
I am myself amazed at how often I need to empty my bladder sometimes. When shopping, I spend most time on looking for toilets, I joke - I remember few older friends of mine were like this earlier when I was younger.. I understand, that besides skin wrinkles, things get less elastic inside too. And they change position. Womb, intestines, etc. Some parts are pressing on another, get swollen, etc.
I understand that you are on your feet a lot. Try to take time and lie down for few minutes when you can - perhaps horizontal position will help things inside to get into position? When walking try to remember to pull your inside up, hold it there, and exercise this way. Pelvic floor exercises were good advice, I think - flexing muscles inside helps. This burning sounds strange so it's good idea to check - sound like a mild infection?
If you had your legs swolen you'd know - my look like elephant's sometimes - after drinking alcohol, sitting down a lot, not drinking enough water, general lack of exercise..
What is your diet like? Some foods and spices are diuretic - perhaps there is something there what could be adjusted? Tea and coffee makes me go every 10 min. Drink pure water! I had to adjust really a lot - can't eat any prepared by others and restaurant food with god knows in it because great chances are that I'll have problem afterwards - my allergies are so intense now. They say that this is how it gets with age for some.
I have a great problem falling asleep too - I like taking tablets. Unfortunately GPs don't want to prescribe them. This is another thing which gets me mad, because I can't get it why they are so determined to make our life even more difficult - most menopausal women have this problem, they know very well - wasn't sleeping problem what pills were invented for? (Please don't respond with an 'addiction' stuff to me!). Did you try to persuade your GP? .. even for a short while?
Good luck! :-*
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Not going to mention addiction.....but....I think sleeping pills have their place but not for long periods of time. They become less effective and then more are needed. They also are responsible for people loosing the ability to fall asleep without help. I think they only prescribe small amounts to help establish a better sleeping pattern.
There are usually good reasons for prescribing practise. Might not be what we want but it could be what's best for us.
Honeyb
x
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he he ;)
.. if they know so well what's best for me why am I so bloody uncomfortable!!!
:-*
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Hi orria
The burning urethra I suffer from is actually more common than I had realised. I started a thread on this site called 'The Burning Club' and it was amazing how many women responded as having similar symptoms. I have seen a urologist and had a cystoscopy to check my bladder. As I mentioned before, the GP did check my urine this morning and there was no infection. I agree with you about our insides getting squashed up and this may be one of the reasons why we get so much trouble with the 'water works' after the menopause. It is also known that oestrogen deficiency effects the bladder and makes it more prone to infection and weakness. Sitting down and getting really hot are the things that make my urethra start to burn but the local oestrogen I get from the Estring has helped a lot.
I don't drink tea or coffee much anymore or fruit juices, I avoid alcohol most of the time - all very boring. I wish I could say avoiding these things makes things any better but it doesn't. I allow myself the occasional very small cup of tea when I am really tired to try and perk me up but never after 2pm in the afternoon. I try to drink most of my fluids before 6pm to hopefully avoid the need to pee too often throughout the night. CKLD has told me that it may be better to drink some small amounts of water throughout the evening so I may try that for a couple of days.
As an ex dancer I really believe posture is important and walking tall and holding your stomach in really helps to support the back and everything else.
I'm taking some Nytol tonight so i hope I will get a better night - it usually does the trick but I know I can only use it a couple of times a week or it won't work. I do practise Mindfull Meditation which helps me cope with the extreme tiredness I get at certain times in the day. Sleep deprivation is torture. Dg x
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Sleep deprivation is torture.
I agree! I can't function in following day... Sometimes I think this is exactly why they will not give me tablets >:(
I was thinking - could this burning have something to do with this vaginal dryness they keep banging on about that we all have? :-\ ... and I don't... :)
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Why would you think they would not give you tablets if you can't function.
I really don't think GPs work like that.
They really aren't out to get you :-\
Honeyb
x
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Hi orria
Yes, the burning is often to do with Vaginal Atrophy. Dg x
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Well honeybun, my straight from University young female GP refused. She said they are causing memory loss in elderly ;D ....
Don't worry - I am extra grumpy today :o
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Not bothered at all ;D
Honeyb
x
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;D …….. go back to that particular GP and ask what she considers elderly to be? How patronising!
Checking the colour of urine is important. The 1st pee of the morning will be dark if one isn't in and out of bed all night. As we increase our liquid intake whether through drinks or eating the colour should be straw but not pale - if too pale it is an indication that we are drinking too much.
Think about your diet as a whole. I have a round of toast with butter plus a cuppa: black with 2 sugars, at breakfast time. Mid-morning - a cuppa with a bun; lunch varies but usually includes either a soup or ham salad; several cuppas during the afternoon then evening meal: 2-night it was freshly caught trout (meat/liquid) with rice which included ginger, garlic, salt, home grown tomatoes (liquid) and I added a knob of butter (fat and liquid). Later I will have another cuppa and later still, a chocolate milk shake to take to my bath with which I will take my medication.
No alcohol. No water unless really thirsty. I get up 2/3 times in the night more if I can't sleep.
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Tea does not really count in your intake of liquid. Tea is a diuretic so you end up loosing more liquid than you take in. Water is best for your body.
I do like Redbush Tea. I never drink normal tea after lunch and never at night as I know it will keep me awake and also makes me pee.
I drink water in the evening too. At least three large glasses, normally bottled but sometimes from the tap. Strangely enough if I don't drink enough water in the evening I have to get up to the loo. If I do drink then I'm rarely up at all. I go to bed about 11:30 and waken up about 7:15 really needing the loo. Not bad I think.
Honeyb
x
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It is probably the caffeine that is the diuretic ? I HATE Redbush.
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Interesting to hear about you fluid intakes - gosh you both drink quite a bit. I did do a diary for 3-4 days to look at my fluid intake and I drank between 1.2 and 1.5 litres - this was drinking when I was thirsty. My pee is never dark - it's always pale yellow. I tend to start the day with decaffeinated tea (200ml) and a glass of water (200ml) and then the rest is spread through lunchtime and the afternoon with just a few sips of water throughout the evening. I am going to try having a bit more water through the evenings to see if it helps but i was told by that urologist (and all the info I've found on the internet) that one should avoid drinking in the evening!!!!!
Some nights I will only pee 3 times but this depends on how well I'm sleeping. I seem to wake not because I need to pee but often because I have had very vivid dreams, I then find I need to go to the loo and when I get back into bed I get that horrid creeping up my legs which ends in a hot flush - I find this makes me feel fully awake, can't get back to sleep for ages and then it all starts again. It is very difficult to switch the mind off and though I sometimes try not to go to the bathroom that doesn't work either. Also, lying on my side seems to put more pressure on my bladder but I find it hard to sleep on my back. Lying down does seem to take the pressure off my urethra so I think this is why it is seldom burning in the morning.
When I had the 3 year break from HRT (aged 49 - 53) my sleep was similarly broken but I only needed to pee about 2-3 times per night but this time it is definitely worse. When I went back on HRT aged 53 the first thing I noticed was I slept better - getting quality sleep made so much difference to my life.
I think one of the difficulties of having these bladder issues is it's hard to ignore it - it becomes a bit of an obsession, I'm fine during the day but I now dread going to bed because the nights are so bad - unless I take Nytol.
DG x
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Oh I dream that I need the loo if my bladder is full and I am deeply asleep. ::)
Usually if people have renal conditions they are not able to drink very much. But the body will expel liquids during the day as necessary. One can take on too much which will dilute the essential minerals etc. which can lead to death but that is drinking lots and lots and ::). One would usually feel nauseous !
I find that if I get up at once and pee then I don't lay awake waiting for my bladder to fill completely.
Could that creeping up your legs be an adrenaline rush? Not nice!
There is a valve or hormone or something which supposedly means the bladder shuts down at night so we don't need to get out of bed as often, however, sometimes this 'fails' so medication can be given.
Your amount of intake is a lot on top of what your diet includes. Water companies were trying to encourage folk to drink 2+ litres daily ::)
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I have 2 or 3 200ml glasses of plain water throughout the day and 3 200ml mugs of decaffeinated or redbush tea and one of ordinary tea mid afternoon. That makes er, um, er 1.2-1.4 litres a day, feels about right. I think I spend a penny about 5 times through the day and once in the night around 3am (used to be 2-3 times at night)
You really wanted to know that didn't you? ::)
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Lol that made me laugh BabyJane....thanks for sharing...I am mostly thirsty in the morning prob due to anxiety and sweaty nights so have a couple of glasses of water in the am and a couple of cups of tea, a couple of juices in the afternoon and juice with tea and maybe a glass of water at night and sometimes through the night when I wake up for loo trip if I'm thirsty...sometimes worry that I may be washing through salts or something but dont know lol
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It's actually really helpful for me to hear your fluid intake regime etc.
I do't think I'm doing anything wrong with my fluids - I think it's my bladder that is up the spout probably because of the atrophy.
Took Nytol last night and slept sooooooo well - only got up to pee twice. I feel like a new women this morning. Dg x
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Menopause grrrrrrr..... Dancing Girl havent experienced that but sounds awful...mainly psychological symptoms for me are hard....huggage to you XXX
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Now back on Vagifem 10's but using one every other day.
Is your GP happy to give you a repeat prescription for this regime janm? I started the Vagifem 10's about a month ago in an effort to combat urethral burning, urinary frequency, irritable sore bladder, urgency and nocturia but on the dosing instruction it says 'twice weekly for up to six months' and there is a date that I'm not permitted to submit my prescription before. So although I'd like to use it more frequently I'm having to stretch it out to one every three nights. This works out at two one week, three the next - I hope I'm able to have it for longer than six months!! I've noticed I don't get up for the toilet on the nights the Vagifem is inserted? Also, when I was considering asking for the Estring I wondered whether it would irritate the bladder by pressing on it? Dancing Girl out of interest, have your night time visits to the bathroom increased since using it?
I have exactly the same symptoms and they sound very much like Interstitial Cystitis but I think oestrogen deficiency was probably the catalyst?
I have found bladder training to be very helpful. The problem with 'going' a lot is that it causes the bladder to shrink and then it holds less before giving the signal it needs to empty. I don't cut my drinks down in the evening but try and hang on and not visit the bathroom between 6pm and bedtime at 12 so I'm usually 'bursting' by then, but emptying the bladder of a larger amount of urine seems to help it last longer before it sends the 'empty me' signal again. One other good tip is to not let constipation take hold. A full bowel can really cause pressure on the bladder so I take regular Movicol for my IBS-C - although some ladies on the OAB forum reckon the potassium in Movicol can irritate - sometimes it's a problem knowing what's best! :o ::)
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When that wasn't enough they gave me Orthogynest pessaries...brilliant..best I'd been in ages.
Then Orthogynest was discontinued, so they tried Gynest cream, which cause huge irritation to the urethra.
My story exactly! The company that manufactured Orthogynest pessaries have a lot to answer for! (And Gynest cream is absolutely not the same!!)
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No money in Orthogynest any more ::) I found it more convenient and easier to use than the applicator thingy ……….
GPs need to realise that less dosage = increase in symptoms ……...
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My GP has always supported my using Vagifem every other night with a 2 week every day reload once a year. There is never any question with my repeat prescription.
Gps who question this can't know much about how topical vaginal oestrogen is absorbed only a minute amount. You get much more from fulll HRT.
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As for how often 1 can re-order the prescription - my Surgery queried my order a few weeks ago because it was 'before time' ::) until I explained that I was going away for 3 weeks. I suppose I could have been given a prescription to carry with me but it was OK, they fetched my supplies from the shelf once they knew the reason ::)
Grandma swore by salt in the bath too, lots of! or powdered mustard in hot water for sore feet. Zinc and caster oil ointment.
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I must have an exceptionally good doctor surgery. I have never once been questioned and I always order early, saves the stress of almost running out only to be told 'we're having trouble getting your......'
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I drink 500ml of water for breakfast plus I have porridge made with water, I then have about 200ml of coconut milk mid morning, lunch about 500ml again water. Afternoon 200ml coconut milk, 500ml water with evening meal at 6.30pm, and then about 200ml between then and bedtime.
I am on ami that can make you thirsty, and I walk very fast so that makes me sweat for an hour plus in the am, and then thirty minutes in the pm.
I P about every four hours and I p 450 -500ml at a time. I get up once a night, but have the odd night where I don't get up at all, my last p is at 10pm and the alarm goes off at 5.30am.
Because I have had an awful UTI, and been on copious amounts of antibs my P has been at the centre of my world recently amongst other things down there.
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We can certainly become focussed on what is wrong with various parts of us ::) ……….
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Hi everyone - it's very interesting to hear how you all cope with bladder issues.
As I mentioned I did a diary of my fluid intake and loo visits for a few days so I know I am drinking about the right amount, though throughout the summer I was sweating so much I'm sure I needed more fluids really. I go to the loo every 2-5 hours during the day - I'm sure I'm not alone in doing the 'just in case' visit before going out. I can easily go 5 or even 6 hours sometimes. What I do find is that I can't pee easily as my urethra feels as though it is stuck together and I'm possibly not emptying my bladder fully as a result. Night time is my problem - I don't think the Estring is putting any pressure where it shouldn't as the more frequent loo visits at night started after I came off systemic HRT before I used the Estring.
I think a lot of my nocturia is due to disturbed sleep as when I take Nytol I only get up once or twice. Hay ho, the joys of getting older.
DG x
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Dancinggirl....when I had my bladder scan, it was with a probe that touched the urethra and my urethra was 7.1mm in oedema thickness, and I was having problems with getting going, the urethra is now 2.5mm and flow is normal, none of us should leave it over four hours as that is setting us up for infection,and can cause nerve damage. when my bladder was playing up earlier in the year and not emptying, one way to guarantee it empties is to p on all fours, with a bowl under you it puts the bladder in the correct position.( the things we have to do) :)
Since all infection has gone I don't need to do this anymore, but I now have a block of wood at the loo so when I go my bladder/bowel/ pelvic floor is in the correct position. The uro/gynae told me to do it, well he told me to buy something called a squatty potty, but my lump of wood was free and is the right height. My pregnant daughter uses it when she visits, and finds her bladder empties much easier.
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Thank you Maryjane - some good tips there. I'm hoping the gynae I'm going to see privately in November will give me advice about all this as well. I think i probably need some systemic HRT alongside the local oestrogen to really help my whole pelvic region - but I will follow his advice.
BTW - though is aid I can go 5-6 hours between pees, I usually go every 3-4 hours.
I think the pressure is off my urethra when I lying down at night and that is why I can pee more freely.
DG x
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Hi again,
I might be dragging this thread but,.. I have few questions:
Dancinggirl - why are you resisting HRT?
Firstly, from what you wrote above it sounds to me that, you are woken up by hot-flush more than your bladder. Secondly, Gynos are specialists in working wombs and ovaries - and childbirth. Our parts are long dead! Kaput! So,.. why to waste your money on visiting a one? No Meno clinic where you are?
Maryjane - I am impressed with how much in control you are! Just, you did not tell us - how is it? Good or bad?
Personally, if I had to P on my all 4 but there was a slightest chance that with HRT I would not have to I'd run for it! Would HRT interfere with some other conditions you have, I wonder?
I am so impressed with how so different we all are! :-X
Let's celebrate it! ;)
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Orrla......I don't need to P on all fours now, it was when they didn't no what was wrong with me and I know if you don't empty your bladder properly you are asking for big trouble.
My p infection seems to have gone........I am now taking vagifem and gynest cream on the outer bits twice a week, I have done the two week load. I have something called Pudendal Neurelga, nerve damage that effects the pelvic floor. I am 75% better than I was in January, I am only 48 it is a combination of three large babies, years of horse riding and perimenopause.
Once the bladder has calmed down from all the infection, I will see how the local oestrogen goes and will then go on HRT if necessary, I am not worried about going on HRT but I don't want to try loads of different things at once, otherwise you don't know what is and is not working.
If you look on the pelvic pain thread that explains what is wrong with me and some others, we all seem to have pudendal neurelga in some form or another.
I have had to spend a lot of money, and research everything myself to find the appropriate specialists, and at times it has been hit and miss.
Ladies who have prolapses of the bladder, have to P on all fours I am afraid, and if you have a rectocele the way they have to open there bowels is awful. Poor ladies.
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That explains!
48 is very young. It sounds that there was a lot of strain on these parts in your case. It's good you monitor it closely!
Again, we are so different because of what we did during our lives, really! No one, magic cure!
All the best! :-*
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Hi orria
I'm not resisting HRT - I've taken it for many years and I am keeping an open mind about whether to take it again. I was told to take a break from HRT last autumn as I was 57 and my Mirena had come to the end of it's life. Most GPs like you off HRT by the time you are 60 - I'm now 58. I'm seeing a gynae because I think it may be wise to go back on HRT and want the backing from a top specialist. I know I sleep better when on HRT and this may solve some of my problems.
The negative effects of oestrogen deficiency on the bladder is well known and gynaecologists are often good at helping with bladder problems as feel as all the usual female bits.
DG x
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Do you know what - sometimes I think that GPs simply want to save money on us, sorry!
I like what this guy says - to me, he makes sense: http://www.studd.co.uk/
All the best to you too! :)
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During pregnancy my midwife told me to buy a child's step stool and use it when I went for a wee. It lifts your knees quite high but really helps empty the bladder. The step stool is still around despite years of use including little ones using it for all sorts.
It's great if you suffer from constipation...makes going much easier.
I always thought if you leaned forward then the bladder empties much easier but I was wrong. When I went to a bladder clinic I was told to lean back. I am much more patient these days and sit for a bit longer to make sure my bladder is empty.
I also resist the urge to pee three times before I go out. I try to make sure my bladder is full.
My daughter is terrible. She can go for many hours between toilet visits....is she heading for trouble as she gets older....who knows.
Honeyb
x
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I always thought I emptied my bladder better if I leaned forward - I'm going to trying leaning back instead. I very,very rarely get constipated - quite the opposite - I open my bowels at least once a day - often twice. I actually need to eat things like eggs quite often to bind me up!!! Sorry TMI I think.
This thread has been very informative though - thanks for sharing everyone. DG x