Menopause Matters Forum
General Discussion => New Members => Topic started by: Loulou1959 on March 19, 2015, 07:45:13 AM
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Hi I am new to the group which I discovered a bit late as I seem to be almost through the worst after ten years of joint pain, nausea, night sweats and hot flushes and a rubbish GP (male of course) not to mention the fortunes spent on herbal remedies that didn't work. What I would like to know is 'will my current total loss of libido ' return once I'm through it. I only got married again 6 years ago and my poor husband has not had the best of times. Fortunately he is extremely understanding and loving. Is there hope for my sex life returning to its former glory or is that it?
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Hi and welcome Loulou1959
I wish I could say your libido will return - for some it might but sadly I think once this is lost it may never be found again. If you struggle with vaginal discomfort which makes sex difficult you could try some local oestrogen that will at least help things become more healthy around this area. Lots of lubrication is vital as well. Whilst the pleasure we felt when young may not return, I think intimacy with your partner can still be very pleasurable if you aren't dry and sore around the vaginal all area. DG x
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WELCOME! If you don't use it you lose it ;)
For years my libedo went, about 18 months into marriage ::) so we have had to find other ways ……. now when DH suggests :bed: I go along and eventually ;)
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Hi LouLou - welcome to the forum. If you type libido into the search box in the blue bar top left of the screen it will bring up posts made about this subject. There may also be some under loss of sex drive. Have you tried HRT or is that something you want to avoid? If you are post meno (last period over a year ago) then there is one HRT called Tibolone which mimics all three hormones and can help a flagging sex drive in some women. As for knowing if it will return I think this depends on whether you have lost the urge but can respond once you "get going" or whether you are unable to achieve any sexual response.
Taz x :)
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Hi Loulou
I just have to let you know, I never had much libido when younger until I started Hrt and now I know what I was missing fingers cross it lasts.
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Hi Loulou1959
:welcomemm: from me too
Sadly I think from reading on here, for many women once they reach menopause (for some even before) - including myself - once it's gone, it's gone never to return - that is libido, and response is much diminished from its former glory ::)
There are a few stories of renewed vigour - and I'm full of envy of these women!!!
My gynae GP mentioned that most women produce most of their testosterone in their ovaries and when they pack up so does the T production. She said that for some women their T production was "adrenal" led - and such women don't tend to lost their libido. I haven't read anything about this though.
Hurdity x
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Hurdity - I have found this http://contemporaryobgyn.modernmedicine.com/contemporary-obgyn/news/modernmedicine/welcome-modernmedicine/are-hormones-answer-low-libido?page=full Do you understand it? Is this what you meant?
Taz x
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Ok so I haven't read the last link posted yet but will. I was on HRT for four years and when on that I felt great but doc said I had to stop in spite of my pleas. I recently attended a menopause clinic and the doc there said that as I seemed to be over the worst that going back onto a libido enhancing HRT wasn't very sensible. My problems started about 6 yrs ago, it felt as tho my husbands penis had a bit of sandpaper on the side. Things gradually got worse and worse. Tried the doctor but no help and have ended up with mild vaginismus. After visiting finally this menopause clinic I am trying vagifem and some moisturising stuff Hayllo or something like that, but I'm honestly only doing it for my husband, if I was a man I would describe it as not being able to raise a smile, couldn't care less if I never did it again and the harder I try the worse I feel. I have now bought some tablets called Goldmax which had quite a good write up but I'm not holding my breath. Thanks for listening guys.
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PLEASE let us know if the Goldmax tablets help :)
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LouLou - you need the razor blade feelings sorted! regardless. Dryness and thinning can cause repeated irritated bladder feelings and the need to pee often. Topical HRT will ease those symptoms.
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It's very sad reading this
I'm really hoping if I can get my inbalance sorted I can enjoy sex again
It used to be so good. Today I ordered replens where you insert 2 x weekly and each one lubricates for 3 days, it might help my constant bladder problems too hopefully
I've read a bit of testosterone can help, and when I'm at the gp next week I shall ask
Xx
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Annie0710 - You need Vagifem or some form of local oestrogen to help the bladder issues. I have found that I need both local oestrogen and full systemic HRT to improve my vaginal and bladder issues. DG x
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Annie0710 - You need Vagifem or some form of local oestrogen to help the bladder issues. I have found that I need both local oestrogen and full systemic HRT to improve my vaginal and bladder issues. DG x
When I saw her initially on Thursday she did reassure me she will work with me on the sex problems so I assume that's the kind of thing she meant
I take max dose orally and she didn't dismiss it couldn't be topped up another way
I'm forever hopeful :-)
Xx
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Hurdity - I have found this http://contemporaryobgyn.modernmedicine.com/contemporary-obgyn/news/modernmedicine/welcome-modernmedicine/are-hormones-answer-low-libido?page=full Do you understand it? Is this what you meant?
Taz x
Thanks Taz well I wasn't sure about this bit: "The ovaries and adrenal glands produce about 50% of circulating testosterone, whereas the other 50% comes from peripheral conversion of precursor steroids from the ovaries and adrenals."
My biology is really rusty and don't remember ever studying this - mind you that's no guarantee I didn't ;D. I think it's saying that the precursor steroids to oestrogen and testosterone are produced in the ovaries and adrenals and then converted to O and T in other places/sites/tissues - though it doesn't say where.
I presume when the ovaries pack up they no longer produce these steroids (not sure why I think this just because they don't produce ripe eggs any more?) but the adrenals still do. I think what my GP was saying was that in some women the adrenals take more of a lead in this direct synthetis of T so it carries on even after meno so their libido is fine. I think it's more common for it to be ovary led which is why most of us struggle!
Good luck with the doc Annie and do let us know the outcome! :)
Hurdity x
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Thanks Hurdity
If just one of us come out of a surgery with a miracle it could change things for all of us on here
Xx
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"I recently attended a menopause clinic and the doc there said that as I seemed to be over the worst that going back onto a libido enhancing HRT wasn't very sensible."
I think that statement above say's it all! How uncaring and selfish of the doc to even suggest something so horrible. No wonder a lot of ours lives go awry when we hit the peri/meno years with this sort of response from a doc who should know better.
As CKLD said, if you don't use it you'll lose it equally applies but equally if we don't have the hormones to maintain our body then there is no point.
Its like having a bar but not stocking it with wine and other drinks either way one is useless without the other???
I recall and old aunt joking about how fallow the years had been in terms of "experiences" with my uncle, I did not really give it much thought at the time but understand what she was alluding to now. In terms of older relatives I think most just gave up on sex reading between the lines. The thought of that scares me :o :o.
:-*
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As Hurdity said, if you don't use it you'll lose it equally applies but equally if we don't have the hormones to maintain our body then there is no point.
It was CLKD wot said that - I can't claim the credit!
It does apply nevertheless and wish I could put that maxim into practice ::)
Hurdity x
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Sorry about that Hurdity, updated the post to correct the reference there.
Its a subject that needs to be treated carefully and I don't think many doc's have the ability to deal with discussing libido never mind fixing it.
Partly the "just get on with it" ethos/attitudes that still exist does not help any of us either.
:-*
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Well after days of planning a suitable time lol to try out the Gold Max, I took it and surprise surprise felt nothing! Another disastrous attempt, now not helped by my husband losing his erection because he felt under pressure to perform lol and said its hard to carry on when he knows I'm in pain. Been taking the vagifem for a good while now and it's not making any difference. No wonder I've lost my libido when it hurts like hell. Doesn't help that's he's rather generously built shall we say. I'm really at a loss. Secretly I'm also getting worried that he will get fed up and look elsewhere, although he assures me he's happy and sex is not that important. Sorry feeling a bit down about it all this morning 😓
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Hi Loulou
its your choice whether or not to take "libido enhancing" HRT, not the doc's.
For me it took 6 months + on 1mg est tablet option to help and get me back to nearly normal on the urinary/comfort side of things down there.
I was not offered Vagifem which could have speeded things up, which I'm annoyed about as doc should have offered this too to easy my discomfort.
If HRT worked previously then get back to where you were.
Hope you get an appt soon.
:-*
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I understand your concern. I also increased a lot in weight. Thank god my husband is very caring and loving. I am the one with a low libido, but he has erectile dysfunction. Pills such as mentioned on http://viagrakopenonline.nl/ (http://viagrakopenonline.nl/) have saved our sex life a lot. Maybe something for you to consider as well?
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This is very interesting. Lots of great posts.
Heres my two penneth.
As far as I can tell Studies have found that serum androgen levels decrease with age rather than natural menopause. But drop sharply with ovary removal.so it has been concluded that androgen production continues n the ovaries after menopause and some of this is converted peripherally to E.
Im not thoroughly convinced more research isnt needed . in my case T levels dropped significantly and so did libido after ovary removal so that fits the theory but doesnt explain why some women with ovaries intact have a deficiency of T. At meno. One would think it would only be oopherectomised women who see a sharp decline and therefore require supplementing, I wonder if enough women have T tested when presenting with low libido at meno to give us a clear enough picture. Of whether low T is the only culprit. In my case T replacement and getting the level up.has not increased libido at all. Maybe eastrogen levels play a bigger part than these particular studies give credit for.
And E therapy further confounds things by raising SHBG.
I know some women who are "intact" have been tested and have very low T at meno even despite being relatively young so this would directly challenge the idea that ovarian production does not significantly decrease with natural meno per se.
I would be interested to see if there is clear and definitive evidence that androgen production can be differentiated between how much is ovary and how much is adrenal driven.post meno. How can they tell by blood levels?
I must say and be warned...rant alert... I find most of what I read about sexual issues of menopause just ridiculous and patronising. There is an assumption that a woman's sexual feelings are completely tied in with her emotions and that only men can have a purely physical need for sex. And I think it hinders us in terms of the way research is carried out, the questions which are asked and the thinking around treatment.
I read an article which actually suggested CBT for loss of libido in women at meno. It might help in coming to terms with loss of sexual function, and possibly if all else fails but I find it a negative way to treat it. If a man is unfortunate to lose his testicles would that be the first line of treatment offered I doubt it very much. The physical aspect would be of significant importance so why is that not the case with us. After all, the ovaries are the female "gonads" and just because we are female we are not all "warm an fluffy" individuals who require romance to get us going and would rather "cuddle" than have an orgasm.
Just shooting the breeze here. It's only my thoughts and opinions so i welcome any challenges. . I find the whole subject very interesting. And as someone who has lost my own sexual function abruptly I'm keen to learn and hear others iknowledge and ideas.
TC xxxx
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Hello again Tc,
Yes, very interesting subject, women libido. Unfortunately, often researched by men and as you said, frequently associated with psyche.
I can only offer my own experience. I had one, sometimes two full hormone panel blood tests for the last 20 years, due to pain during intercourse and also after orgasms. No pelvic inflammation has been found so Gynae thought it was worth checking my hormones. I had very high estradiol levels during ovulation (above normal range) and normal levels otherwise. Testosterone levels were within normal range. At the late stages of peri-menopause (after almost 10 years), estradiol levels skyrocketed and plummeted randomly, testosterone levels decreased dramatically to not significant numbers.
Before peri-menopause, my libido followed a very defined pattern. Null before, during and after periods, 100% around ovulation. I could sense men looking, sniffing my body when I was ovulating, like wild animals, and I was also very aware of their body scents and looks. I wanted to feel desired and I desired sex, all within the socially accepted limits. When peri-menopause was at its peak, I had wild thoughts regarding sex and thinking about cheating on my partner (who was not the loyal type, btw) was the most natural thing. I've turned into a maneater :o (Daryl Hall & John Oates song was my soundtrack, lol). When I was almost reaching menopause, the libido just vanished, out of the blue. Nada. Now, 3 years after menopause, I can tell you that I'm a different person, but my libido still exists, it's just of a different nature. I have very low estradiol, progesterone and testosterone levels, but I'm not being tested as often as before. Sometimes I feel the old libido is back, almost like before, and it coincides with some other oestrogen related symptoms (boob pain, vaginal mucus, sharp brain). I'm not on any sort of HRT.
So... I think oestrogen plays a big role but maybe testosterone is also important, regarding energy levels, which are important, not only for sex purposes, but for overall well-being.
BeaR.
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I never had a very high libido but I did have one. It was a bit all over the place during peri and then it disappeared and it broke my heart. My head said I should be having sex and I felt disconnected from my beloved husband but try as I might I could not have mustered a sexy thought if my life had depended on it. I was on hrt all this time by the way, although it turned out to be the wrong hrt for me. Now...how does that work? ...I was getting estrogen but that wasn't the right component it turned out.
My libido only came back when I was on the right hrt for me for 5 months and then I put testosterone into the mix and the 2 took a further 3 months to bring my libido back.
I agree with bear, the testosterone played a big part for me. I had been on hrt for 10 years but, it was the wrong hrt for me. Now that sounds really stupid because all the professionals say they are all the same but after trying 5 types it is perfectly obvious to me they are not. I have never been tested for any of my hormones, despite being under an NHS meno clinic. I was also lucky I asked for testosterone and got it without a peep out of the consultant. I'm interested you area not on any hrt Bear?
I am 57 and take my hrt in a cycle but I don't get periods in that cycle where the "urges" are stronger. I get "thoughts" and can act on them whenever. Before I couldn't bear for my husband to touch me...it felt horrible no matter how hard in my head I knew I had to try and find it ok. Totally a biological reaction and nothing "fluffy, romantic or psychological" about it.
Too right all this stuff is driven by male researchers. They invented Viagra but seem to think "we can go whistle"! Urrgh.
I'm just glad it's back, it was horrible time without it...it's amazing how much you could miss it when it's gone. Some ladies might think it was a relief but I most certainly wasn't one of them...it was quite devastating to feel like that.
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Im so glad to hear that lady it gives me hope. It's not just about the act of sex is it, it's that loss of feeling. It feels like a loss of vitality. It makes me think "who would want me now" I've lost all my sensuality". It makes me feel so sad. It just contributes to this feeling of being a different person and for me it was so sudden. A line in the sand.
I guess the lack of cyclical "peaks and troughs" iyou describe might related to not ovulating.
I've been on T for nearly 4 months now. Maybe the lack of any improvement from it is due to my low eastrogen. Maybe its converting. Although my blood total T isnt low. I read something about the fact that in some women total T being normal can be a false reading. Something to do with receptors which I didnt understand. Apparently research is being done into a different type of hormone which acts on receptors. Bit over my head TBH.
Xx
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I agree Tc I think the T isn't working for you because your estrogen levels are not right. Although I have never had any tests I know mine were right because my symptoms came under control. You don't have yours under control so something is out of wack and so the testosterone cannot do it's job. A proper endocrinologist who thinks out of the box is what you need or a slightly "mad professor type" meno consultant... ;D but where to find one huh? :-\.
This idea that if we think lovely or naughty thoughts our bits will work is just nonsense!!! At one point trying to put myself in the mood actually made me feel sick....it was horrible. We have discussed already what an impact meno can have on us all psychologically and that's just the symptoms people think are normal with meno….what about all the other truly devastating stuff like VA, being cut off physically from a partner, loss of dignity yahda yahda yahda….if men really understood it would be solved in a jiffy....what gets my goat is that there should be women out there in a position to research or do something about it....but reading here about GP's and consultants and the way the behave...well some of the women..I just despair.
You are right...there is an answer in the chemical process going on...or not going on in your body. xx
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Too right lady.councidense as I emailed an endocrinologist the other day. He emailed me back and suggested a woman endocrinologist who has more experience than him in this field. Only trouble is shes private. :-\
I dont feel I can ask my doc to refer me yet shes just referred me to a urogynae. She must think I love an 'ologist!°
She always says one thing at a time. So I will have to wait til I've been to c and w. Xxxx
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I say sod it Tc!!….it's not her flaming life on hold waiting around "one thing at a time" >:( >:( Just ask her if she felt rotten 24/7 months on end if she would be so patient!! x
Just tell her that when you are well she will never see you again so it is in her best interests to make it so!! ;) even if you need to see a dozen people at one time xxxx
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Well plucked up the courage to discuss lack of labido with my GP
His answer as he typed away at his desk, not even looking at me ........
It's not forever
🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬
I noticed the photograph on his desk if his wife n thought .... I hope that comes back n bites u in the ass !!!!!🤬🤬🤬🤬
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What does he mean its not forever...dumb ass!!!??? once its gone its gone...those hormones that control that are GONE!! >:( >:( Ah Crazee Haze...what can I say...they are beyond stupid for those who should no better. xx
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I then decided anything menopausal would not be discussed with him and changed to a female GP.
He sat at his desk Looking like Harry Potter (aged 12) n he was obviously embarrassed I had mentioned labido. It took a lot for me to bring up topic n I was shot down in flames. I left his room with heavy heart N humiliated. Oh it's a sore fight this menopause 😭😭😭😭